I DID IT! Share your latest 1CCs/other triumphs here...

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

They are put there for a reason. The only Cave game I've played where they made the clear feel empty is DFK 1.5 because they give you so many. There is still a skill needed to use limited bombs in time when you are in trouble anyway. Can't really help you if that is your problem. You might as well complain about not being able to get the world record.

[chum]

I don't think It's about talent as much as it is about practice, cliché as it may sound. Try to keep things objective. For instance, in CAVE stages can often boil down to "Big enemies are killed in succession while streaming aimed shots from popcorns" so all you need to know is when to be where and where to stream when. I'm not sure how much of a role talent plays, I think you gain most of your skills by practicing, and by understanding (and an understanding can only come with experience)

By forming an objective understanding of the parts that make up a stage, things automatically become easy most of the time. The other thing is also making sure that you're comfortable with your controls, so that you have no problems executing whatever movements you have in mind (that might be a "talent" to a degree, but I think It's mainly also something that you improve over time)

Re bombing: this really varies from game to game but once again being able to recognize that you're unlikely to get out of a situation alive, and pressing the bomb button in time, comes from that objective understanding of the game. If you have solid strategies, you'll mostly want to bomb when you FAILED to follow a strategy (ie: your stage route) which is very helpful to get back on track, but bombs should also be used against boss patterns of which you have a very low success rate.

How am I gonna learn to dodge bullets...if I'm clearing them? That seems to hinder or defeat the practicing process to me. That's why I stopped bombing. It just seems like it takes way from learning patterns. And it wouldn't be a very fulfilling run to me if I just nuked everything.

You want to clear the bullets that are the hardest to dodge, unless you can dodge them consistently. Find out which patterns you can do without bombing by practicing, and if there's something you can't dodge, then either practice to learn to dodge it, or you bomb. Not bombing something that is likely to kill you, in an actual 1cc attempt, is stupid.

[NTSC-J]

How am I gonna learn to dodge bullets...if I'm clearing them? That seems to hinder or defeat the practicing process to me. That's why I stopped bombing. It just seems like it takes way from learning patterns. And it wouldn't be a very fulfilling run to me if I just nuked everything.

Just trust me. At some point, you'll attempt a pattern you were always bombing only to find it wasn't as hard as you thought and you will no longer need to use a bomb there.

And if that still doesn't sound appealing to you, let me ask you this: how well is your current method working for you? Doesn't seem like it's going so well. In that case, the smart thing to do would be to try something else.

[Hagane]

I still think you are lacking in the basics. Most of the time, you don't have to "learn" patterns, you just identify their nature and dodge them accordingly. Is it aimed, static, a stream, etc.? Then you respond with a basic maneuver for that kind of pattern. Of course with harder bosses / levels things get much trickier, but getting those basics down will help you a lot, at least to get the 1CC. Just playing a lot isn't any good if you are lacking in that department.

And no, you don't need any talent to be decent at these games. You need talent to be at the top. For the rest of us mortals, properly analyzing the game and disciplined practice can do wonders.

[chum]

...I've been playing hardcore for 8 months. At least 16 hours to it each week. ;-;

I wonder if you're playing with an active or a passive mindset. The amount of time you put in doesn't matter if you're not learning new things. I know that in the Touhou community, many fans play with a passive mindset, meaning that they don't identify the nature of the components that make up stages, or the nature of boss patterns.

[XoPachi]

Well, I can keep trying these strategies and will, but this wouldn't be the first second or third time I've heard any of these. I try them and I could no miss stage 1-3 and I've even hit the extend at the stage one results screen with some more capable scrub level chaining at least, but no matter what, that fucking flying turtle fortress bastard thing chews my lives up in seconds. Then I coast through stage four. I just die on the gun.

[trap15]

Gonna pull out a hint from sikraiken's playbook:

lrn2play

[NTSC-J]

Maybe this discussion should be moved to the grievances thread?

Well, I can keep trying these strategies and will, but this wouldn't be the first second or third time I've heard any of these. I try them and I could no miss stage 1-3 and I've even hit the extend at the stage one results screen with some more capable scrub level chaining at least, but no matter what, that fucking flying turtle fortress bastard thing chews my lives up in seconds. Then I coast through stage four. I just die on the gun.

You seem frustrated by the strategies offered to you, but if you've honestly been using them and still aren't seeing any improvements, then its all you, man. The only constant variable in this equation is you. It's true that natural talent is what makes the champions in most cases, but I find it hard to believe that a dedicated player couldn't clear the first round of DDP or DOJ with the right kind of practice.

[Obscura]

I can't believe it's the first time I've managed to get the St4 1up in DOJ. I swear it's the hardest midstage extend for me to get in any Cave game I've played.

Save a Hyper for it, and you can get it for "free".

[Arvandor]

My first 1cc, Ikaruga, took me a couple hundred hours. Mars Matrix probably about the same. Triggerheart Exelica came pretty quickly, not a really hard game. ESPgaluda, Cave's easiest game, took me quite a long time, and I have no idea on the hours, but that's because I put less hours into it each month. Probably took me a good year or two to 1cc it. Dodonpachi also took me a couple hundred hours for my first 1 loop clear.

I've only recently started trying to play DOJ semi-seriously, but have played it on and off for 3-4 years now, and have never done better than the beginning of stage 4. Rarely do I make it through stage 3 on one credit. DOJ isn't an easy game, at all. It's interesting though, as it feels much MUCH easier now than I remember it being a year or two ago. I can dodge and recognize holes in bullet sprays that were daunting and caused me to bomb before. Experience and practice is all it takes, really.

Anyways, my point is, I've always been an above average gamer, always the best I've known in my circles of friends, and with 5-6 years and probably thousands of hours of shmup experience, I bet DOJ will still take me a few hundred hours to 1-all. Unless I switch to B-S and bomb a lot I have so much fun trying to learn how to chain though, and am so bad about bombing, that I'm not too worried if I set my 1cc back by even hundreds of hours, who knows.

[Deca]

I honestly think that A-E is the easiest ship to use in DOJ, the extra firepower and lower death penalty makes up for having less bombs. The game gives you enough lives.

[Obscura]

I honestly think that A-E is the easiest ship to use in DOJ, the extra firepower and lower death penalty makes up for having less bombs. The game gives you enough lives.

Agreed.

The S types are both worthless. A-L basically forces you to 1-life the game, since being stuck with A's level 1 shot type is a death sentence against late game popcorn. B-E has literally no advantages over A-E, as near as I can tell. B-L is interesting, but I never could get used to it. None of my chaining routes worked, which really annoyed me, and not having that raw power on the shot for those times when there were a lot of mid-size enemies made things harder.

[dunpeal2064]

It took me way too long, but I finally cleared the first loop of Dodonpachi!

I'm gonna keep going with it, because this game is awesomesauce.

[RLRBS]

DFK 1.5 66 billion Omote 2-ALL with B-Strong

My first Cave 2-ALL.
Would have probably cleared this faster if I went for a pure survival run instead of scoring. I still suck at stage 5 scoring though

[To Far Away Times]

It took me way too long, but I finally cleared the first loop of Dodonpachi!

I'm gonna keep going with it, because this game is awesomesauce.

You get a badge on your gamer jacket for beating that one.

[To Far Away Times]

I can't believe it's the first time I've managed to get the St4 1up in DOJ. I swear it's the hardest midstage extend for me to get in any Cave game I've played.

I'd say so. If I had a nickle for every time I lost a life at that stupid cannon... well, I'd be rich. And since it's DOJ, you'll be needing all the lives.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I'd say so. If I had a nickle for every time I lost a life at that stupid cannon... well, I'd be rich. And since it's DOJ, you'll be needing all the lives.

Granted, the Ketsui one can be pretty nasty too, but if you don't have a Hyper stocked I still find DOJ's worse. Progear's extend is so easy to get by comparison. Also, I finally broke 14 mil, woo! (not much of an improvement, lol) I can pretty confidently 1-ALL it reliably thanks to the massive number of bombs you can get, but I still need to learn to get into the second loop. I can get to St5 with only one or two bombs, but I need to learn to NMNB to St5 before I'll be able to get into 2-1. It'll be the first Cave game I manage to loop when I can do it (not counting DFK Novice)!

why does the start of stage 5 rape me so hard, whyyy

[Obscura]

Granted, the Ketsui one can be pretty nasty too, but if you don't have a Hyper stocked I still find DOJ's worse.

DOJ's is a bit easier once you learn that you can bomb the outer turrets, and can even damage the central cannon with a bomb; the only restriction is not killing the central cannon with a bomb. If you don't know that, then Ketsui's is definitely easier, although since it's so much longer, you do have more opportunities to mess it up.

Also, I finally broke 14 mil, woo! (not much of an improvement, lol) I can pretty confidently 1-ALL it reliably thanks to the massive number of bombs you can get, but I still need to learn to get into the second loop. I can get to St5 with only one or two bombs, but I need to learn to NMNB to St5 before I'll be able to get into 2-1. It'll be the first Cave game I manage to loop when I can do it (not counting DFK Novice)!

why does the start of stage 5 rape me so hard, whyyy

Is this about Progear or DOJ?

If DOJ, I really don't know what to tell you; the start of Stage 5 is hilariously easy, and you barely have to dodge anything. Just sweep back and forth. Memorize where the big ships are so that you can kill them while streaming towards the center, rather than the edge. I can't imagine struggling with that, but going for the loop.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

DOJ's is a bit easier once you learn that you can bomb the outer turrets, and can even damage the central cannon with a bomb; the only restriction is not killing the central cannon with a bomb. If you don't know that, then Ketsui's is definitely easier, although since it's so much longer, you do have more opportunities to mess it up.

I knew about being able to damage it with bombs as long as it doesn't cause a kill, but I didn't know that you could kill the outer turrets with a bomb and still get the extend, that's helpful to know.

Is this about Progear or DOJ?

Progear. DOJ's St5 doesn't actually hurt so much until the midboss shows up (I have way more trouble with the popcorn after the St3 midboss; failing to deal with them quickly causes them to make walls of bullets, and I don't have a good path learned ). The ships that swarm the start of Progear St5 are always an issue for me; I've only gotten past it once NMNB if I remember.

[Obscura]

(I have way more trouble with the popcorn after the St3 midboss; failing to deal with them quickly causes them to make walls of bullets, and I don't have a good path learned

Get all the way to the right side side after killing the midboss, tap to the left side, stay ahead of the entire blob of fire instead of trying to stream within one tiny gap. If you've got a hyper, use it here for a nice score boost. If using hyper, use laser on the popcorn to make it easier to time the chain into the two carriers after the wave; otherwise, use shot.

If you mean the stage as a whole (as opposed to just the first wave), the trick is to stay way up the screen when killing the mid-sized ships and tap straight down when the popcorn starts firing until the midsized ships are dead and you're ready to sweep to kill the popcorn; this will put their shots out to the sides of the screen, and leave a big open path for you to sweep under them. Learn where the safe spots are in the mid-sized ships fast blue downwards "lines" of bullets. Towards the end of the stage, where you've got a wave of popcorn on each side and a giant ship in the center, you'll probably want to save a hyper for a screen clear, since this brief segment is really nasty without one; if you don't have a hyper and don't want to blow a bomb, the trick is to laser the big ship for a bit as he comes in, quickly shift to one side before the popcorn starts firing, and stream across the screen, timing your movements to get through the straight-down shots of the huge ship. Probably smarter to just use a screen clear, though.

[Softdrink 117]

If you laser, there's a blind spot in the lower left corner for the initial wave of popcorn after the midboss. You'll need to migrate up-right in order to dodge the last couple of popcorn shots, but since you need to do that anyways to kill the carriers, it's not a big problem.

With regard to the section Obscura mentioned, if it's the one I'm thinking of:
There's a blind spot which can be exploited if you have good positioning. It requires very tight accuracy, but once you get it makes this section incredibly easy. It's kind of the exact center of the screen horizontally, about 1.5 ship lengths up from the bottom. Watch HFD's black label run of 1-3; you can see it at about 2:10. The positioning is slightly different when unhypered, but it's still very doable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jw0PDYsL47A

[finisherr]

I honestly think that A-E is the easiest ship to use in DOJ, the extra firepower and lower death penalty makes up for having less bombs. The game gives you enough lives.

100%

[SuperSoaker360]

Finished Story Mode on Radiant Silvergun. I doubt I'll ever do a 1cc on Arcade mode.

[CDexWard]

Now I cleared Donpachi for the first time! Even made it to the 2-3 boss without any second loop experience.

But my input recording is messed up. Whenever I load it up there is no autofire (via the C-Button Full Auto setting) recorded and it all goes to hell. Is there a way to fix this? I really wanted to save a replay of every first clear I pull.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Every version of MAME I've tried desynchs the input replay unless you delete that game's NVRAM before starting it (as well as before playing back the recording). Make a batch file that deletes Donpachi's NVRAM and starts the game up to record every time you run it, or delete the NVRAM yourself and load up the game to record via a GUI or something.

[CDexWard]

So there's no way to get this replay working? That's a pity. I'll play it again and this time I will record it as a video, just hoping that I get just as far as in the first clear.

[pestro87]

If you're using MameUI, I'd recommend that you do "File -> Play and Record uncompressed AVI Output" instead of "File -> Play and Record Input". You need to change the aspect ratio of the recorded video to tate first though. Go to "File -> Properties", click on "Miscellaneous" and enter 480 x 640 as the "Snapshotsize" and deselect "Autoselect snapshot size".

[CDexWard]

Thanks for the tips! I got it now, took a few tries but I got just as far as the first time around!

[J_Taishu]

1-ALL'd DoJ BL with a pathetic 47,126,950.

[To Far Away Times]

1-ALL'd DoJ BL with a pathetic 47,126,950.

Congrats. I was so proud when I beat DDP DOJ BL.