Dodonpachi Daifukkatsu [Cave 2008]

orange · Post by **orange** » Sun May 25, 2008 4:37 am

the atmosphere of the game certainly is a change for the worse

in doj everything looks and attacks viciously

this is more like mushidonpachi

Udderdude · Post by **Udderdude** » Sun May 25, 2008 4:40 am

Ruldra wrote:Second loop video here

Scary stuff

Holy Jesus Fuck. It's like as many bullets as Mushi Ultra, but as fast as DOJ.

That is just bruital.

Necronopticous · Post by **Necronopticous** » Sun May 25, 2008 7:18 am

Wow. That second loop video is pretty hardcore. I can't wait to see the TLB.

Battlesmurf · Post by **Battlesmurf** » Sun May 25, 2008 7:30 am

mushidonpachi

haha

320x240 · Post by **320x240** » Sun May 25, 2008 9:49 am

Ruldra wrote:Second loop video here

Scary stuff

Now that looks fun! It's a pity they had to include those 'walls of bullets' (and the slowdown needed for the player to negotiate them).

elfhentaifan · Post by **elfhentaifan** » Sun May 25, 2008 10:18 am

seems like you cant bullet cancel in loop 2 anymore.
Its beautiful

bitkid · Post by **bitkid** » Sun May 25, 2008 10:50 am

The first time I watched this new DFK video I was blown away, then the more I watched it I just wasn't that impressed. I really like the polish and detail that has gone into the background designs, even if you can't see it half the time from all the insanity on screen. The subtle lighting effects are really cool.

I like the look of the 3rd level the best; it almost looks like it is early evening. The areas where you see tanks coming out of little enclaves with the glowing lights is a nice touch. I guess it really just looks like DOJ with a lighter palette. I wish they player wasn't bombing and Hypering so much because it looks like some of the patterns are pretty creative.

The 2nd loop video looks nuts.

Where did that first video come from anyway?

P_HAT · Post by **P_HAT** » Sun May 25, 2008 11:09 am

The TLB is Loli Bee.

moonblood · Post by **moonblood** » Sun May 25, 2008 11:22 am

The cancelling and medallions remind me of Gigawing

The music is rather crappy
The bosses and voices are silly
It's overall way too 'happy'

Now it looks great and I'm sure it plays sweet as well, but

No sir, I don't like it

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Sun May 25, 2008 11:46 am

GaijinPunch wrote:
PROMETHEUS wrote: I can't believe this kind of gameplay still appeals to the guys who've been dealing with DDP or DOJ. Unless you only work with addiction you've got to hate the loop idea.
Or they simply like the idea of a looping game? I don't see how this is hard to understand.

Try to play dodonpachi for score through loop 2 and I think you will see how this is hard to understand.

elfhentaifan · Post by **elfhentaifan** » Sun May 25, 2008 11:55 am

moonblood wrote:The cancelling and medallions remind me of Gigawing
The music is rather crappy
The bosses and voices are silly
It's overall way too 'happy'

Now it looks great and I'm sure it plays sweet as well, but

No sir, I don't like it

maybe you should just PLAY it to make yourself a real imagination of it, dont you think?

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Sun May 25, 2008 12:11 pm

Udderdude wrote:
j^aws wrote:Two games dealt with this loop 'problem' for 'skilled' and 'unskilled' players nearly 30 years ago (circa '81):

- Solar Fox: Scoring system based on speed; if you cleared stages fast enough, you'd be rewarded by skipping the easy stages and netting approriate points for it too...

- Stargate: Scoring system based on items collection (humanoids); if you collected enough humanoids and used the 'stargate/ warp', you'd be rewarded by warping the easy stages and netting appropriate points for it too...
Problem is that neither of these solutions would work with modern bullet hell shooters. Unless it was just like .. 'if(score>bigNumber) skipNoobLevels()' or something. Even then, it would have to add a whole ton of points as well, which defeats the purpose of planning a route for all stages.

Would be much better to just add different game skill levels, like Mushi.

I'm inclined to agree, however, in the case for Stargate, the player had the *choice* to warp the 'easy' levels if desired or see all the levels sequentially. It also had a default cap at 10 levels for warping (a setting that could be changed) and all subsequent levels would play without this feature...

E.g, a similar design could be translated to a first loop (capped) with appropriate scoring mechanics in order to reach the 'desired' second loop quicker...

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Sun May 25, 2008 12:17 pm

This loop 2 video is sexy >.<

Zebra Airforce · Post by **Zebra Airforce** » Sun May 25, 2008 12:22 pm

Yes, the second loop is amazing. Prometheus, cave will probably include a 2nd loop mode like Muchi Muchi and DOJ BL, so at least you can enjoy that.

clp · Post by **clp** » Sun May 25, 2008 1:12 pm

jesus shmup fanatics are killing this genre more than the lack of interest it generally gets anyway , all the majority have done so far is omg dont like this omg dont like that its rediculous lets face it most of you want them to make dodonpachi over and over again .

Udderdude · Post by **Udderdude** » Sun May 25, 2008 1:22 pm

clp wrote:jesus shmup fanatics are killing this genre more than the lack of interest it generally gets anyway , all the majority have done so far is omg dont like this omg dont like that its rediculous lets face it most of you want them to make dodonpachi over and over again .

Get your stereotypes right .. Cave shmup fanatics are supposed to give the thumbs up to whatever they make, no matter how ridiculous it is

Gwyrgyn Blood · Post by **Gwyrgyn Blood** » Sun May 25, 2008 3:43 pm

elfhentaifan wrote:seems like you cant bullet cancel in loop 2 anymore.
Its beautiful

You can, just not against bosses/midbosses it seems. If you'll notice in the first loop, some boss/midboss bullets tend to be more resilient to canceling than normal bullets as well.

Also as far as the Bee emblems go, if you pick them up when they are Green they are only worth 100 points but greatly refill your Hyper meter, if you pick them up while they are gold they are worth a large number of points depending on how many you've picked up that level (20000 x 2 for the first, 40000 x 3 for the second, etc). Unless there's some way to jack that up though, the green ones are probably more valuable in the long run.

ssfsx17 · Post by **ssfsx17** » Sun May 25, 2008 9:45 pm

Udderdude wrote: But let's face it .. the loli bosses are ridiculous, no matter how you look at it. They don't ruin the game, but it sure as hell gets me laughing every time I see them.

I think that's the point - they're supposed to be funny and parodize the whole "near-future spaceship shmup" genre, not to mention almost the whole dojin shmup scene.

Ruldra · Post by **Ruldra** » Sun May 25, 2008 9:52 pm

I get the feeling the TLB will be something like this:

elfhentaifan · Post by **elfhentaifan** » Sun May 25, 2008 10:07 pm

Gwyrgyn Blood wrote: Also as far as the Bee emblems go, if you pick them up when they are Green they are only worth 100 points but greatly refill your Hyper meter, if you pick them up while they are gold they are worth a large number of points depending on how many you've picked up that level (20000 x 2 for the first, 40000 x 3 for the second, etc). Unless there's some way to jack that up though, the green ones are probably more valuable in the long run.

thats some nice information.
I wondered about this, too.
But it surely presumes a lot more strategy
Looking forward to try that out at the munich meet

orange · Post by **orange** » Sun May 25, 2008 10:30 pm

2nd loop looks sweeeeet

Miher · Post by **Miher** » Sun May 25, 2008 10:41 pm

moozooh wrote:If you don't believe me, listen to DDP DF OST and try to find a single excuse for it being absolutely worthless.

Is the DDP-DFK OST already out?

moozooh · Post by **moozooh** » Sun May 25, 2008 10:42 pm

You can listen to it from within a superplay.

BryanM · Post by **BryanM** » Mon May 26, 2008 1:45 am

The lack of power levels sounds fantastic to me; anytime I die in the later stages of DoDonpachi, I just quit. No reason to continue; unless I'm close to a refill the screen is often going to be unmanageable without bombing.

It was always bullshit; a kick in the scrotum after getting knocked down. Not as much BS as the temporary max power of Gunbird or getting to be awesome in Parodius for five minutes only to be reduced to an utter scrub one mistake later - but still BS.

It's nice to see them being progressive in some areas - stagnation has hurt the genre in similar ways Adventure games decayed..

Udderdude · Post by **Udderdude** » Mon May 26, 2008 2:53 am

ssfsx17 wrote:
Udderdude wrote: But let's face it .. the loli bosses are ridiculous, no matter how you look at it. They don't ruin the game, but it sure as hell gets me laughing every time I see them.
I think that's the point - they're supposed to be funny and parodize the whole "near-future spaceship shmup" genre, not to mention almost the whole dojin shmup scene.

Sorry, I am not seeing the parody angle at all. :/

orange · Post by **orange** » Mon May 26, 2008 3:00 am

yeah i don't think this is a parody

it's more like marketing :<

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon May 26, 2008 3:37 am

BryanM wrote:The lack of power levels sounds fantastic to me; anytime I die in the later stages of DoDonpachi, I just quit. No reason to continue; unless I'm close to a refill the screen is often going to be unmanageable without bombing.

Huh? You only lose one level of your selected weapon type. So if you're A-L, your laser is still nearly full power, and you don't need your pea-shooter for anything outside of scoring, really. Granted it'll screw with your score all up and down the place, but that's death in a Cave game for ya. Survival shouldn't be an issue, especially with the way rank works in DDP. I've had my first death right before the base section of stage 5 (hardest part of the first loop for me), and found it easier despite the weakened firepower. Just can't rely on the tap-fire slowdown if that happens -_^

PROMETHEUS wrote:this game is WAY WAY TOO LONG. It does loop right ? 25 + 25 minutes ? Are you kidding ??

For a grand total of 8 minutes longer than the other two games? Doesn't seem like a huge deal to me =/ I am beginning to understand your frustrations with the second loop, but it still doesn't really bother me much. Just adds lots more replay to the game

A metric fuckton of extra replay if you don't use savestates ;D

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Mon May 26, 2008 9:42 am

The other two are already horribly way too long so adding 8 minutes to that while also making the game more difficult makes me wish the scoring system really is EXTREMELY forgiving, or anyone who wants to achieve a great score will have to do a perfect play by doing billions of runs over decades.

Arvandor · Post by **Arvandor** » Mon May 26, 2008 9:56 am

Some people might consider that a good thing -_^ Especially Cave, who will get shloads of quarters from the Japanese fanatics. Or 100 yen coins as the case may be, whatever it is new arcades normally go per run.

It does seem like they're trying to appeal to the robots like ISO and SWY and whonot though, doesn't it?

PROMETHEUS · Post by **PROMETHEUS** » Mon May 26, 2008 11:01 am

Arvandor wrote:Some people might consider that a good thing -_^ Especially Cave, who will get shloads of quarters from the Japanese fanatics. Or 100 yen coins as the case may be, whatever it is new arcades normally go per run.

That's exactly the reason why I think they're still doing this shit. If you look at it this way, it is not much different of a trap than World of Warcraft is. The game is built to make you keep playing because you are addicted, even though what you are doing is stupid. Now the part that is stupid in a STG like DDP or DFK is not nearly the whole game like World of Warcraft, but it is the part that keeps you from memorizing the later stages properly for ages, and the part that forces you to play the stages you already master in every run, wasting 15 min of my time per run in DDP for example.