Movies you've just watched

[Never_Scurred]

@Scurred: some nice picks in the top ten mang. Although I refuse to compile a definitive list of my own (impossible task) I respect your respect for Hard Boiled, a film where plot and dialogue means nothing when appreciated for its spectacular Bullet Ballet - unmatched in my opinion.

I probably would have knocked it and Battle Royale further down the rankings. I think Carpenter's Thing is superior to both - especially BR. It has its moments but in revisits it doesn't qualify as a 'great' movie for me.

I actually believe The Killer to be superior to Hard-Boiled, and if I had seen it first, it would be on my GOAT list. Hard-Boiled is pure happiness. Every time I watch it, it feels like the first time.

The Thing...I really can't say anything that already hasn't been said better. It is a perfect movie to me. This and Tron are the only two films I will stab a nigga over, real talk. Even with my other favorites I can find something about them others might not like, but The Thing is the exception. I dunno what people were thinking/smoking back in the day that made them not appreciate this film. The music, the tone, the visual effects, the acting, the writing...."sigh". Hell, I am still amazed folks who should know better don't appreciate Carpenter's epic '80's run. I will stand atop a mountain screaming at the top of my lungs, "Carpenter ran the '80's". Name me another filmmaker in the horror/sci-fi genre with a run like he had. Cronenberg-maybe, but not even close. Eighties Carpenter is like eighties Tyson.

Big Trouble in Little China
Escape From New York (My big uncle was an extra when they filmed here in St. Louis.)
Starman
Christine
Prince of Darkness
The Thing
They Live
The Fog

[boagman]

They Live

Man, is that a hilarious movie to watch. I mean, complete low-budget fest of silly-embracing awesomeness. It's just so *bad*, right down to its very last frame! I stinking love it, as bad as it is.

[Never_Scurred]

They Live

Man, is that a hilarious movie to watch. I mean, complete low-budget fest of silly-embracing awesomeness. It's just so *bad*, right down to its very last frame! I stinking love it, as bad as it is.

This movie always makes me happy. You can definitely tell the cast were having a blast the whole time. That fight scene...

*My* Top 10 GOAT Director list
1. Spike Lee (Had an ill run in the eighties through the nineties....then he made Girl 6. His whole style influenced urban contemporary black consciousness throughout the early to mid nineties. Bamboozled was great-Spike Lee was pissed off and hungry, good stuff. I mostly love and respect him for bringing Malcolm X to the screen despite crazy opposition from pretty much everyone. The story of how Lee shook them old gay hollywood jews and the Nation of Islam to get it made is just as compelling as the film itself. Denzel still got robbed, tho. Ain't ever gonna get over than shit.)

2. '70's-'80's John Carpenter

3. David Cronenberg (I'll forgive him for Spider and Cosmopolis)

4. John Waters (Mainly for his pre-Hairspray output. Completely disregard everything after Serial Mom. Cecil B. Demented was aight, tho)

5. Paul Verhoeven

6. John Woo (Completely disregard everything after Hard Target except for Face/Off)

7. David Lynch (Only for Elephant Man, Blue Velvet, Dune, and Wild at Heart. *Never really cared for Eraserhead, though)

8. Takashi Miike (Most people will talk about Audition, Ichi the Killer, or DoA, but I love his lower profile stuff like the Crows films, 13 Assassins, and even his goofier flicks like Full Metal Yakuza, and Fudoh. Visitor Q is still my favorite from him, but what I love most about his output is that he has a lil' something for everyone)

9. Quentin Tarantino (The man who turned me into a film nut. Not the biggest fan of his work since Pulp Fiction, but I got to give him props for Django: Unchained. Haven't seen Inglorious Basterds or Death Proof, didn't care for Kill Bill 1 & 2.)

10. Gregg Araki (Lets not talk about Splendor, redeemed himself with Mysterious Skin, haven't seen Kaboom or Smiley Face)


*Don't hit me.

[Skykid]

Django is certainly his finest since Pulp F. Now when we're labelling films 'terrific', that earns the star.

The Killer better than Hard Boiled? Not for me. We have to completely discount all plot and drama elements from these movies, because they're trash frankly - not Woo's forte. Many people like to see the Killer as poetic, but to me it's just slow shit between the gunfights.

Hard Boiled is less slow because the gunfights are more frequent and altogether the most epic shit of their kind ever to grace a screen. Time Crisis Wild Dog vaulting through windows with a shotgun following a five minute take is just pure amaze.

[Acid King]

Speaking of top 10's...

Atleast I know there is one person on this board whose taste I can trust. Dead Alive is probably my favorite movie of all time and easily tears up all the pretentious shit that normally top out all time lists.

[GaijinPunch]

The Thing...I really can't say anything that already hasn't been said better. It is a perfect movie to me. This and Tron are the only two films I will stab a nigga over, real talk. Even with my other favorites I can find something about them others might not like, but The Thing is the exception. I dunno what people were thinking/smoking back in the day that made them not appreciate this film. The music, the tone, the visual effects, the acting, the writing...."sigh". Hell, I am still amazed folks who should know better don't appreciate Carpenter's epic '80's run. I will stand atop a mountain screaming at the top of my lungs, "Carpenter ran the '80's". Name me another filmmaker in the horror/sci-fi genre with a run like he had. Cronenberg-maybe, but not even close. Eighties Carpenter is like eighties Tyson.

[Skykid]

This is, at the very least, completely on-target. I happen to like "Predator" a good bit. In terms of which one is better, though? Somehow *every single piece of dialogue* in "Heat" is better than, say, 90% of the dialogue in "Predator".

I find it laughable that anyone would think that "Predator" is the better movie between the two, and this is coming from someone who thinks that "Predator", too, is a fun watch.

I think the crux of the issue is that Heat attempts, and fails, to be ambitious, whereas Predator humbly and completely fulfills the quintessential 80s action flick requirements. I'd have to say Predator is the better movie, because it knows its strengths, weaknesses, and expectations, whereas Heat tries to elevate itself above its expectations and doesn't succeed. Heat is still an eminently watchable and entertaining flick. But its reach exceeds its grasp, which isn't true of Predator.

A perfect answer, and what I was getting at when I decribed them as directly incomparable because of entirely different goals.

Of course Predator is the better movie, it's far more successful and accomplished in what it sets out to do. As for dialogue, what's so good about Heat's script? Sounded like completely generic and forgettable cop/bad guy ambling to me. I can't remember a single line.

Predator on the other hand is quintessential schoolboy humour that couldn't be better pitched. I remember the entire fucking movie.

[GaijinPunch]

I can't remember a single line.

What are you? A fucking monk?

Cause she's got a great ass... and your head, is all the way up it!

The reason you don't remember the lines is that there are basically no one-liners in the movie. That's hardly an offense. Some of my favorite movies have them (Die Hard, Big Trouble in Little China) but Heat doesn't really attempt to do this. Predator has Arnold in it so of course it's riddled with them. He can barely handle two-liners.

[Skykid]

I'm waiting to hear someone tell me what make's Heat's dialogue so special. And if I'm honest it's a loaded question; I don't think people often understand what makes a good script.

But I sure as shit know in the three times I've attempted the movie (failed on the third）I noticed nothing significant about the writing.

For me, a movie with great dialogue can be listened to like an audiotape and still remain entertaining.

Glengarry Glen Ross, Shawshank, A Touch of Evil, Colour of Night, everything Tarantino, everything Kubrick, No Country, Goodfellas and Taxi Driver, Boogie Knights, Fargo etc etc etc etc - all noteworthy pieces of work.

You can't remember anything in Heat because there's nothing worth remembering. Honestly, the movie is such superficial baloney, I'm surprised anyone is duped by it.

[DEL]

Skykid wrote:

I'm waiting to hear someone tell me what make's Heat's dialogue so special

Well here I am to do just that. The lines in Heat are mostly anecdotes that I find have a lot of relevance to the real World.

The Tone Loc speech where he says something like: "If he had said nothing I'd have thought nothing, but he kept going on and on about how he's got nothing going on, that RIGHT THEN I knew - he's got something going on."
(This was totally relevant to something not long ago)

"Don't leave anything in your life that you can't walk away from in 30 seconds, if you see the Heat coming round the corner."

"Are you doing what you want to be doing?" - "No, but I intend to soon."

"There is a flip side to that coin. What if you do got me boxed in and I gotta put you down? Cause no matter what, you will not get in my way. We've been face to face, yeah. But I will not hesitate. Not for a second."

"Well you know, for me, the action IS the juice."

"Assume they got us right here right now, where we stand."

"Its like risk vs reward baby."

& Last but not least:
"Don't waste my motherfucking time."

-------------------------
Do you want to know more?

Are we an effective team?

[trap15]

Damn, those are some solid lines. I will have to watch this at some point and give my opinion. This debate has made me curious enough already!

[boagman]

Damn, those are some solid lines. I will have to watch this at some point and give my opinion. This debate has made me curious enough already!

And they're far better in context! I'm pretty sure you'll find it to be worth your time.

Keep in mind: Burt Reynolds is *not* in this film. Just so you can keep them separate.

[Skykid]

Skykid wrote:

I'm waiting to hear someone tell me what make's Heat's dialogue so special

Well here I am to do just that. The lines in Heat are mostly anecdotes that I find have a lot of relevance to the real World.

The Tone Loc speech where he says something like: "If he had said nothing I'd have thought nothing, but he kept going on and on about how he's got nothing going on, that RIGHT THEN I knew - he's got something going on."
(This was totally relevant to something not long ago)

"Don't leave anything in your life that you can't walk away from in 30 seconds, if you see the Heat coming round the corner."

"Are you doing what you want to be doing?" - "No, but I intend to soon."

"There is a flip side to that coin. What if you do got me boxed in and I gotta put you down? Cause no matter what, you will not get in my way. We've been face to face, yeah. But I will not hesitate. Not for a second."

"Well you know, for me, the action IS the juice."

"Assume they got us right here right now, where we stand."

"Its like risk vs reward baby."

& Last but not least:
"Don't waste my motherfucking time."

Forgive me, I have no idea how this corresponds to being a good script whatsoever

Which is exactly as I said, I don't expect people to understand composition of a good script at all, because most people can't see the woods for the trees and that's ok. If we're giving out prizes for anecdotal waffle whipping up false profundity, perhaps you could make it a contender - but I'm pretty sure the Miami Vice TV series would put it in a grave based purely on volume.

A superbly written film doesn't even need to have much dialogue in it. 2001 for instance, is almost flawless, but the spoken word count is incredibly small versus the run time.

Comparing Heat to something a little more familiar, like Taxi Driver for instance, which at least shares the same star, we have one movie with a compelling narrative and narration that examines the mind of a simpleton who views the world in a fascinating and often truthful way - and no matter how many times you see it there's something new to be mined from the character, his actions and behaviours.

In contrast the other is a movie full of tough guys spouting shit in tough guy mode: the kind of pedantic, borderline laughable Hollywood gusto that worms its way into most films towing a supposed realistic line, when in fact the behaviour of the protagonists errs on the ridiculous. Ergo poor writing not worth giving two shits about.

"I'm a goddamn sexual Tyrranosaur!"

"Buncha slackjawed faggots 'round here."

No, Predator isn't about to win any awards for dialogue either. It's neither graceful or intricate: but it is humourous, and to that end it's completely successful within its given muscle man/alien hunt genre.

"What do you want to try next, harsh language?"

Infinitely more memorable because it's perfectly married to the material, and everything has its place, as previously outlined.

So no, Heat's dialogue is maybe 90% wank and 10% worth sniffing over. It would help if it was a better movie, but unfortunately it doesn't achieve that either.

[Mischief Maker]

*Heat spoilerz*

It has been YEARS since I saw Heat, and it's not on Netflix Instant, so I might be fuzzy on details, but I feel the reason so many of you say Heat is poorly paced is because you think it's a Heist movie bogged down by relationship scenes rather than a Relationship movie revolving around a series of heists. I don't blame anyone for thinking that because Heat is one of those rarest of relationship movies: one told entirely from a man's perspective.

It's all about the conflict between a man's job and his family and every one of the principals is experiencing that conflict in a different way. Pacino is working a job that's killing him inside out and ruining relationship after relationship, but he doesn't stop. DeNiro is a consummate professional who tries to push personal relationships away, only to realize when Felicity starts hitting on him that he's the loneliest man in the world. Val Kilmer is a man who values his relationship more than his job, and ends up losing both. Dennis Haysbert is a man swallowing his pride and working a demeaning job for the sake of his family, but in the end all the support from his wife can't buttress that humiliation.

People were let down by the diner scene because of all the hype (Pacino and DeNiro in the same scene!!!), only for it to turn out to be so understated, even from Pacino. But it's the lynchpin of the movie. Both men know their lives are fucked up, they're not where they want to be, and they don't stop because that's their job. Despite circumstances making them rivals, they're able to have more respect and empathy for each other than the women in their lives.

Ironically in the end, the thing DeNiro should have walked out on in 30 seconds or less was his job, so he and Felicity could make a clean break and start a new life. But thanks to the diner conversation, Pacino knew DeNiro couldn't leave a string untied in his criminal life and was able to bait him. That mutual understanding is why the two held hands in the end.

[EmperorIng]

If you liked Death Journey, you might like Mean Johnny Barrows.

Or better yet, Black Cobra. That one is really quite fun.

Lol, you know I fuck with Black Cobra 1 and 2.

Oh, that reminds me. Warriors of the Wasteland! Another great one.

I didn't think it was possible, but it's actually a post-apocalyptic film that out-gays Road Warrior.

[blackoak]

Damn, I'm going to have to watch Heat again too. Seeing it 10 years ago at 23, I don't think I was receptive to the kinds of themes Mischief Maker wrote about. Although I tend to find the stoic response to miserable institutions like Work a pretty uninspiring theme; I generally prefer an angry or incisive polemic.

[spadgy]

Goodfellas... oh no; sorry – I mean Wolf of Wall Street. Good enough, but I found the culture of the whole thing so despicable I wouldn't say I enjoyed it.

And then Battleship, which was pretty terrible, but as soon as they moved to the actual battleship; well, I had plenty of fun.

And The Earth Dies Screaming, which is just bloody fantastic.

[Skykid]

^ Gawd, Battleship is an offence.

Speaking of well written movies, Don Jon, mentioned recently, is surprisingly punchy and amusing.

[GaijinPunch]

People were let down by the diner scene because of all the hype (Pacino and DeNiro in the same scene!!!), only for it to turn out to be so understated, even from Pacino. But it's the lynchpin of the movie

What's that? Baseball games and barbecues?

Always liked that line b/c I was partying my balls off in college when I saw it in the theater and always wondered if I'd grow up and have a suburban adult life like I did as a child.

Anyway, a lot of people didn't like Pacino in the movie. Apparently in an early script he had a coke problem which is what made him so antsy. I thought this was one of his last movies where he was quite tough. Doesn't mind barging right into a chop shop and demand dirt. Tells Tone Loc what a jack ass he is (classic scene). Clearly is pretty well known on the street - come sup and fucks w/ the bouncer at the club, walks right past the medal detector, etc.

I can't find anything on it but I remember some years ago Waingrow (who is apparently a pretty nice guy in real life) went to jail for possession of more than a few marijuana plants. Of course, everyone in jail called him Waingrow.

EDIT:
MM. Great post. Only issue: Felicity = Eady.

[Skykid]

Anyway, a lot of people didn't like Pacino in the movie. Apparently in an early script he had a coke problem which is what made him so antsy. I thought this was one of his last movies where he was quite tough. Doesn't mind barging right into a chop shop and demand dirt. Tells Tone Loc what a jack ass he is (classic scene). Clearly is pretty well known on the street - come sup and fucks w/ the bouncer at the club, walks right past the medal detector, etc.

And he still can't act.

[GaijinPunch]

I'll admit, he's no Arnold.

[Leandro]

I'm surprised by the Heat hate. It's my favorite movie, I watch it every year and it never feels long

[Skykid]

I'll admit, he's no Arnold.

Agreed!

I'm surprised by the Heat hate. It's my favorite movie, I watch it every year and it never feels long

Send your brain my condolences.

[boagman]

I'm surprised by the Heat hate. It's my favorite movie, I watch it every year and it never feels long

It's only a very vocal minority...who can't really support his claims.

[Skykid]

I'm surprised by the Heat hate. It's my favorite movie, I watch it every year and it never feels long

It's only a very vocal minority...who can't really support his claims.

They're not claims, they're statements. And I've been supporting them perfectly ably, just skip back a page.

Your failings aren't my problem, I don't care if you can't see what's in front of your eyes. I just enjoy ridiculing you for it.

[Skykid]

To add fuel to the fire, critic Steven Rea succinctly got the point in his 1995 review for the Philadelphia Inquirer.

So why doesn't Heat, with its elaborately staged, tautly edited robberies, its killer cast, edgy score and elegant cinematography, offer more satisfaction? It's the script, stupid.

Trololol

[Kaiser]

Skykid how about you stop being a cynical asshole? It's okay we get it, you have your own opinion on Heat or any other movies you dislike for you own reasons, but it's no reason to ride on boagman for having a different opinion, or anyone else on that matter. Let off some steam Skykid

[Skykid]

Skykid how about you stop being a cynical asshole?

No.

And it's not cynicism - it's criticism. You obviously don't understand that word.

[Kaiser]

Skykid how about you stop being a cynical asshole?

No.

And it's not cynicism - it's criticism. You obviously don't understand that word.

Sorry but your PERSONAL criticism is off the charts especially when you say shit like this:

I'm surprised by the Heat hate. It's my favorite movie, I watch it every year and it never feels long

Send your brain my condolences.

There's a huge difference between plain old dumb criticism which can be cynical and constructive criticism, should have told him something like "You should go watch a lot more movies like X and Y and get your own sense of taste and then a year later, do you still consider Heat a classic?"

[Skykid]

I like to think of it as constructive criticism with a special brand of venom/humour.

Pretty sure I've been very detailed and constructive up to this point, plenty of examples given in my fruitless attempts to be informative about scripting.

You're still misunderstanding cynicism though, no matter how far my 'personal' (why emphasise this, all contributions here are personal) criticism goes "off the chart".