Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[Spartan21]

Hi guys,

I'm the owner of a Sony BVM 20F1U. I've had it for a long time now, but I haven't used it in about a year. I just hooked everything up, turned the power on. I heard the sounds of it turning on, but I see no picture. The standby light is blinking red and the power light is a steady green. I tried turning it on and off, and same thing. PLEASE HELP! Any suggestions for getting a picture? Thanks!

Edit: Nevermind. I needed to wait a bit until it warmed up. It works fine now

[Josh128]

So this box can convert VGA to 240?

No, read the edit.

I did read the edit homie. He talks about two different pieces of equipment in his post, the VHX-480 and the TVOne C2. The edit was not clear about which one it was referring to, hence the question.

[vol.2]

Not to start something here, but the emotia is pretty great. I have one of the GX units and it's super useful. I'm sure I could have saved a little cash by choosing a different solution, but there are limited similar devices with quality close to it, and none of them are cheap either.

[kitty666cats]

This is some mysterious transcoder my friend has apparently owned for a long time, anyone recognize it? I'm assuming that's a 15kHz dsub port, haven't heard back from my buddy about it. I assumed maybe an old JROK, but I don't recall one with SCART

[kitty666cats]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264627924249

Just a heads up, Mimo Genius II on eBay right now. Way out of my price range, but these things are nigh-impossible to find now. I tried emailing Mimo on their borderline-dead website's email address, never heard back.

[strayan]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/264627924249

Just a heads up, Mimo Genius II on eBay right now. Way out of my price range, but these things are nigh-impossible to find now. I tried emailing Mimo on their borderline-dead website's email address, never heard back.

This might be more within your price range:

viewtopic.php?p=1399305#p1399305

[SuperSpongo]

EDIT: strayan was faster

[kitty666cats]

Hehe, I saw that. If there's any rabid collectors that Mimo is certainly still insanely rare. But, I've seen videos of it in action, seems pretty meh. Anyone have any clue what that transcoder is? The dsub port also being on there stumped me!

[Fudoh]

If there's any rabid collectors that Mimo is certainly still insanely rare.

they have been available new from MIMO until very recently, so my guess is that anybody vaguely interested in one (and willing to pay their price) did get one in the past.

The Mimo GII simply drops every other line (and row) instead of doing any kind of pixel averaging. This produces a very sharp image given the right sources. From a engineering point of view, it wasn't a great machine though.

[kitty666cats]

If there's any rabid collectors that Mimo is certainly still insanely rare.

they have been available new from MIMO until very recently, so my guess is that anybody vaguely interested in one (and willing to pay their price) did get one in the past.

The Mimo GII simply drops every other line (and row) instead of doing any kind of pixel averaging. This produces a very sharp image given the right sources. From a engineering point of view, it wasn't a great machine though.

Mmm, I emailed them quite a while back and never got a response. Must have been right around the time they stopped producing them.

BTW that mystery board above is apparently a very early RetroTek product, was unaware he ever produced one with both dsub and SCART in. Interesting little board, my friend sent me a pic of it in use... knowing how inconsistent some of their early products had been with some people, I'm glad it works well for my friend

[St4rwalker]

[FinalBaton]

2950's, eh? very nice pics

You really got the "Cadillac" of crt setups there eheh

Really enjoying mine which I recently got. It's in great shape as well. got it for a steal, too

[kitty666cats]

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Analog-Way-Sca ... 2749.l2649

Reminder: Extron Emotias are a overpriced meme, I got this for under $20 and it does the same shit :3

TVone C2s are still pretty cool though

EDIT: no 'true' 240p on her... the anti flicker settings make shit real nice and stable though. The Antec TVator (also clones made by AVerMedia) is also a great scan converter for the price, with enough adjustments. Combine any of these badboys with an RGB interface and you'll be having a good time! 580xi is my go to, although this Analog Way thing doesn't really benefit any extra from the xi

So this box can convert VGA to 240?

I've been using this thing more and I got some VERY defined scanlines via Nintendo Switch on 480p > Portta HDMI to VGA > this thingy > my JVC TM-H150CG

Still technically 480i, but it was very nice looking! There's many cheap down-scan converters with RGB out that look very nice, I want to see an Emotia in action IRL to see if it's really that much better...

[Josh128]

Extron will give you true 240p on a TV, it looks very good IMO. I had two of them I would use to convert PC TV out interlaced only to 240p. I ended up selling them though, didnt use them enough.

[vol.2]

Extron will give you true 240p on a TV, it looks very good IMO. I had two of them I would use to convert PC TV out interlaced only to 240p. I ended up selling them though, didnt use them enough.

I agree. I have lots of other ways to get 240p going on a CRT. I sold my emotia too. Basically, the only real application I can see is for collections of old games on newer systems, most of which can be played in emulation from a PC running retroarch and out to a CRT. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but it's not a use-case that comes up for me.

[Dochartaigh]

Extron will give you true 240p on a TV, it looks very good IMO. I had two of them I would use to convert PC TV out interlaced only to 240p. I ended up selling them though, didnt use them enough.

I agree. I have lots of other ways to get 240p going on a CRT. I sold my emotia too. Basically, the only real application I can see is for collections of old games on newer systems, most of which can be played in emulation from a PC running retroarch and out to a CRT. Maybe there's something I'm missing, but it's not a use-case that comes up for me.

My specific use case is I use my 240p downscalers (TVOne Corio2's) pretty much for Xbox 360 Shmups in TATE mode on my non-HD CRT's – put the Xbox 360 in 480p, then downscale to 240p. Looks beautiful. Might also downscale DC (I like the fighters which aren't 240p in 240p) or OG Xbox but not as much. I will say that if I have the choice between a 20" multiformat 480p monitor, and downscaling that image to my 32" SD PVM....I kinda like using the PVM better even if it's only downscaled 240p (depends on the game though of course).

[kitty666cats]

I'm also curious about hearing a definitive statement on 480i > 240p via an Extreon _xi / _Rxi... lots of accounts of people saying 'TURN ON DDSP!' and other people saying 'LEAVE DDSP OFF!'. It seems to vary quite a bit display-to-display, but for me it seems I just need SERR switched on, and sometimes csync. My unit is a 580xi. However! There has been several instances where DDSP was vital, because without it the image got shifted very far upwards and to the left. It also has seemed to stabilize the image drastically for me in a few instances, but I can't quite remember what was plugged into it... could very well have been my Raspberry Pi w/ a CRT-based image that was already forced to 240p for everything

[vol.2]

I'm also curious about hearing a definitive statement on 480i > 240p via an Extreon _xi / _Rxi... lots of accounts of people saying 'TURN ON DDSP!' and other people saying 'LEAVE DDSP OFF!'.

DDSP turns off the image processing of the ADSP. It's a bypass switch. With processing off, you lose the centering controls. The processing alters the sync output of an rxi into something that causes problems with some equipment. I believe (not 100% sure here) that you can bypass the detrimental effects of ADSP on the sync by using a cable that has separate H-V sync output to your monitor (assuming your monitor has separate H-V sync inputs, mine does). In other words, I am currently under the assumption (based on my own system and experience) that only the csync output (usually marked as either "S" or "H/V" on an Rxi) becomes an issue when using ADSP.

In order to get a "definitive statement" on the effects of ADSP on csync, it would take probing the output with an oscilloscope to see what it's doing, and comparing that to working sync from a confirmed source and the DDSP bypass. I would be keen to see that as well.

[H6rdc0re]

Would upgrading from a PVM-20L4 to a BVM 20F1E be worth it? This assuming it would cost me about € 150.

[Dochartaigh]

Would upgrading from a PVM-20L4 to a BVM 20F1E be worth it? This assuming it would cost me about € 150.

So you're trading your 20L4 + 150 cash for the BVM-20F1?

It would be an upgrade. The 20F1 is a superior monitor. Just for the additional adjustments it has it's a no-brainer...except if you have a need for the extra connectors the 20L4 has built in, where the BVM needs cards for things like Composite and S-Video. This all can come down to condition too. If the 20F1 is in worst shape than the 20L4, then no, I wouldn't upgrade in that case.

[SuperSpongo]

Also, be sure to check out the BVM's operating hours.

[Exclamation]

So, a couple noob questions here - looking at trying to pick up a bvm-20f1u in the near future -

“Clean sync” is what the rgb card on those takes by default, right? Is that the same as C sync?

I’m looking at primarily playing genesis games, but also some ps1 hopefully one day neo-geo, possibly Saturn, 32x, and meh/maybe snes/nes - assuming I always do rgb mods where needed and/or get the best cables available, does any of these need the sdi input card (that takes rgb sync on green through bnc or component iirc, right?) or a sync stripper?

With the consoles I mentioned, is there any good reason (besides a larger screen) to look for a D series bvm? And isn’t that considered an hd monitor/not desirable due to input lag? I’ve seen it recommended a lot, but also pretty sure it supports 1080i/ not sure if it’s ideal for ps1 and older? Any other 20”+ late model bvms to look out for that’s good for all of these?

And lastly - since I’ll be starting out with a genesis + rgb/scart cable, I just need a control unit like the bkm-10r or similar and either a scart to BNC connector/just picking up a new cable for granny/bnc, and I’ll be good to go, right?


Sorry if these have been asked already or anything - been spending a lot of time the last couple weeks trying to source a bvm and learning enough to even have these questions. And thanks for taking the time to read my long winded questions!

[FinalBaton]

SO my PS3 isn't shot after all so I tried hooking it up to my PVM-2950 via some rando chinese component cables I had lying around.

Gotta say : ain't too fucking bad! I finally figured out how a couple things display-setting wise too, and I think it'll become my anime player now, it's pretty convenient.

First of all, I figured out how to get my SD-on-bluray Fist Of The Nort Star how to display fullscreen. It's in 4:3 so it was just a matter of enabling an option on the PS3. something I just couldn't find/figure out on my standalone cheap BD player.
(For those 4:3 shows on blu-ray that are store in widescreen with black borders though... of course there's nothing to do with them).

All 4:3 dvd's looked great of course.

On the streaming front : there's some good news and some bad news.

Crunchyroll works great. The app is easy to navigate and I love how widescreen content is displayed : slightly cut off on left and right so you only get small black bars on top and bottom, that's how I prefer it.

Netflix seems to work but I don't have a subscription so can't test videos playing through it. The app opened though and seemed the front end seemed to work.

Funimation sadly is not supported anymore. In fact it's not even on PSN, Sad.

Youtube doesn't work for me, can't get past the welcome screen.

native web browser also doesn't work for me, don't know if there's ways to download another one or not.

Note that this is with the latest PS3 system update. Maybe an earlier firmware behaves differently.


All in all I'd say : good BD playback(haven't tested all display options yet), good DVD playback (haven't tested all display options yet), and so-so streaming playback(if Crunchyroll and Netflix covers all your need then I guess it's ok). Maybe someone could use it only for discs, and stream with another piece of gear.

Here are some pics from Crunchyroll app :





And from DVD :

[Cannonballs]

How are you hooking up the ps3? I thought the 2950 was 480i/didn’t do component.

[FinalBaton]

The 2950 accepts component, so I use a component video cable direct from the PS3, and straight into the 2950.very neat and clean, no adapters necessary.

[Cannonballs]

So it has no problem putting out 480i. Did you have to change something in the system menu?

[Namingway_PL]

The PS3 is a great device for watching video content on our precious CRT monitors. It's best when combined with a multiformat monitor

App's like Netflix and Crunchyroll work great, it can upscale DVD's, it has both analogue and digital audio and video output, and many more!

Here are some pics that I took recently. Evangelion on netflix at 576p/4:3 on my JVC DT-V1710CG

[Cannonballs]

Those are some big photos.

[FinalBaton]

Sweet, does Netflix on PS3 automatically sends Eva as a 4:3? or did you activate underscan or some other option to get it to display like that?

So it has no problem putting out 480i. Did you have to change something in the system menu?

Yep, it outputs 480i just fine!

In the display menu you select 480i and no other res

Then you select you display as 4:3

And there was another option I activated for BD playback I think, I can check exact names of options if you want.

[vol.2]

I use an Extron VSC 700 with a Chromecast->Tendak for this, it's sharp as a tack. If I want to watch a DVD I use a PS2 with an RGB connection.