Shmup stinkers

[Skykid]

I'm not 100% on adding games to the list, but if you're going to rebut them, actually play them (p.s. attract mode footage doesn't count as real gameplay - you can't just bomb the hell out of everything in a real play and then finish 4 seconds later). I don't want to be solely responsible for shitlisting games, after all.

Wat? Now I'm even more confused as to why you posted all the above info!

I don't have time to play everything that people suggest (besides, if I played everything and then judged it, that would make it my list and not one compiled by the input of others, which is what it is so far). You shouldn't take it personally that I double checked with you (it wasn't a rebuttal, just a question) I've done that a few times with other suggestions just so I don't have a bunch of people turn up immediately telling me to take it off again.

[trap15]

I'm going to disagree for the removal of Arbalester. That is a terrible game, and I don't know why anyone would have it removed.

[Marc]

1942. Spectrum. No 'for its time'/hardware excuses, this is the same machine that pulled off the most accurate home computer port of R-Type. It's just a dreadful mockery of a conversion that was utter dogshig even back when Blitz was regarded as a semi-interesting game.

Armalyte on C64. Overrated fucking garbage even back in the day.

I'd also say Grindstormer - cookie cutter shit that I can't imagine ever being desperate enough to play again.

[Hagane]

Grind Stormer / V-Five is OK. No way in hell it deserves to be mentioned in this thread.

[Skykid]

Grind Stormer / V-Five is OK. No way in hell it deserves to be mentioned in this thread.

I'd wager it's better than OK, certainly no stinker.

[Ed Oscuro]

Oh shit! I just remembered a game based on complete fucking random chance.

"SCOARE INCREEES"

So sayeth the hoarse CD-i masterpiece, he (it?) of the prerendered movie CGI backdrop, Tetsuo Gaiden. Pronounced "Tetsuoooooooo Gay-den," against all convention. Not kidding on the gay den. Most assuredly there was not another; this is a side story to a series nobody wanted to tell. According to my memory, you get a "SCOARE INCREEES" when you defeat a wave of enemies. One point. This is pretty fuckin intense!!11 I can't hold it when I'm at the gay den!1

Quite bare-bones, really at the level of the many shareware shooters (or worse!) we needn't bother with - EXCEPT that it DID get some kind of regular release, probably at retail. I have a copy. It are bad.

I'm not 100% on adding games to the list, but if you're going to rebut them, actually play them (p.s. attract mode footage doesn't count as real gameplay - you can't just bomb the hell out of everything in a real play and then finish 4 seconds later). I don't want to be solely responsible for shitlisting games, after all.

Wat? Now I'm even more confused as to why you posted all the above info!

To put some ideas out there for anybody interested in seconding or rebutting my choices.

No special offense taken, but if you're going to try to rebut a choice - you can't just say "this looks wrong" and expect me to leave it at that, no matter if I cave or if I decide to spill more of the beans (I thought you didn't want that!)

I'm going to disagree for the removal of Arbalester. That is a terrible game, and I don't know why anyone would have it removed.

I blame Skykid and his questioning of all my priorities!

Arbalester actually has many qualities I like - but one critical problem (aside from the boring gameplay) is the utterly broken powerup system. I said that some other game has a broken powerup progression, I think - but Arbalester's takes the cake. Your most useful (and possibly most damaging) shot is clearly NOT the highest level.

So anyway, I'll look at my list again, because if that is a benchmark for a stinker, then a lot of other things become clearer. I wouldn't put that ADK game in with these others, but the others probably yes.

[BPzeBanshee]

Why Broken thunder is on the list, the game is not unplayable, I've 1CCed it twice.

I'm not sure I agree with this.

One one hand it reeks of developer's inexperience with Thunder Force convention, which in itself doesn't make a game bad, but had poorly done in-game aesthetics for enemies (no movement for most especially Mephist), small bullets, small ship, and difficulty spike that shows a serious lack of quality control testing. I looked up the name of the guy listed as developer on the EXE files and came across a website that showed some kind of Touhou (and possibly Hentai) shmup crap, which would explain the dull bullet pattern design etc.

On the other hand, the intro movie is nice, the music is nice (NOT the same as the Broken Thunder 2005/6 album, they've been rearranged again and only some were used in-game), the backgrounds are okay and general 3D modelling is better than say, Deathsmiles II which everyone here seems to really like. It's playable and a bit on the easy side for most of the game until you get to Mephist then the spike hits.

[Danny]

Still wondering why Action 52 is not on the list... just saying!

Also B-Wings had a sequel of sorts. Zaviga not only looks (and more importantly plays) a little better than B-Wings but I let you guys judge.
here is the link...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YUVrRismOy4

To think one of the main programmers of the Dragon Quest games worked on these garbage games heh.

[Skykid]

Added the following:

Sen Jin
Guardian Storm
Stagger I
Air Attack
Equites

Will do video links soon.

Removed: Sol Divide... much to my chagrin.

[Hagane]

Afega titles definitely deserve to be in. They are some of the worst games the genre has to offer.

As for Sol Divide, it's a bad STG. Not that bad of a Beat'em-up / STG hybrid though. I used to think exactly the same as you do, but once I stopped judging it by STG standards it started to click.

[Skykid]

Afega titles definitely deserve to be in. They are some of the worst games the genre has to offer.

As for Sol Divide, it's a bad STG. Not that bad of a Beat'em-up / STG hybrid though. I used to think exactly the same as you do, but once I stopped judging it by STG standards it started to click.

Fair enough. By that rationale it probably doesn't belong here by genre definitions alone. I always approached it as an STG first and foremost, I'll have to revisit it with a different mindset.

[Ed Oscuro]

Zaviga not only looks (and more importantly plays) a little better than B-Wings but I let you guys judge.

I've played it. No masterpiece, but the innovations alone should keep it off this list, IMO. Not bad for 1984 or whatever it was. Tough and somewhat unrewarding to try to play, though, I felt.

Equites is probably more fun though. Damnit, somebody get out there and second guess me on these!

[Marc]

Agony, Amiga. The title says it all.
Project X, Amiga.

[Skykid]

Agony, Amiga. The title says it all.
Project X, Amiga.

Cool, 2 more Amiga lovelies. Are these Euroshmups by any chance?

Now added.

[Danny]

Zaviga not only looks (and more importantly plays) a little better than B-Wings but I let you guys judge.

I've played it. No masterpiece, but the innovations alone should keep it off this list, IMO. Not bad for 1984 or whatever it was. Tough and somewhat unrewarding to try to play, though, I felt.

Equites is probably more fun though. Damnit, somebody get out there and second guess me on these!

After re-exmining the game it does appear to be better than B-Wings. In fact this is the game that B-Wings should of been really. That said the BGM is still grating as fuck but that alone won't land a game a spot on this list.

[Danny]

Oh and I will stick up for X2 if anyone tries to put that in. (sequel to Project X) That game does a decent job in most reguards and is a pretty enjoyable Euroshmup just remember to use the bomb more than a typical shooter.

[Herr Schatten]

Cool, 2 more Amiga lovelies. Are these Euroshmups by any chance?

I think they're both british-made. Does that count or does it have to be continental Europe? Bizarrely, they are fondly remembered by many people I know. They're pretty to look at, though, so maybe that's why.

[PooshhMao]

I never quite got the hate for Xenon 2 myself. I used to play the DOS version in what must've been 1990 or so and liked it a lot. Then again I wasn't nearly as educated on what makes a shmup great.

[PooshhMao]

Armalyte on C64. Overrated fucking garbage even back in the day.

Oh come on now.

[Friendly]

Armalyte on C64. Overrated fucking garbage even back in the day.

Oh come on now.

No offense to Marc, but he has a very unique taste. For instance, he also believes that PS3 has exactly two game worth playing (when in reality everyone knows it has at least 3). Can't really recommend to use his opinion as a guide on what to buy and play, because: hyperbole.

[MJR]

Agony, Amiga. The title says it all.
Project X, Amiga.

Project X is definitely a stinker. It's not even above average, it's dung.
I once wrote here detailed analysis what was exactly wrong with it. Anyone who thinks project X should be removed from the list; please read this first.

[Friendly]

Yep, Project X is a bad game; when I first played it I thought it was a PD (public domain) shmup, not something you'd actually sell for money.

[KAI]

PSX - Two Tenkaku

Just played/1CCed it once, it sucks.

[Kollision]

PSX - Two Tenkaku

Just played/1CCed it once, it sucks.

Is being easy reason enough to call it a stinker?

[KAI]

It's easy and stinks, believe me.

[Illyrian]

Gun Frontier

For reasons obvious to anyone who has ever played Gun Frontier

[PooshhMao]

Gun Frontier

For reasons obvious to anyone who has ever played Gun Frontier

Yeah I think this is overrated too - typically dull and generic Taito pre-F3 shooter, though it has a unique theme and a memorable smart bomb. Love that epic sound effect.

[KAI]

Let's put all the dull and generic games on the list.

Gun Frontier is good if you play it like a man.

I would like to see if RVS-R.Y and T3-WIZ play like fags on the upcoming superplay DVD.

[PooshhMao]

Every Taito-published shmup ever prior to RayForce/Darius Gaiden (that was not developed by Toaplan)

Darius (boring as fuck, though it set the template)
Darius II
Megablast
Metal Black (great music and epic bosses though)
Master of Weapon
Fighting Hawk
Ryu Jin
Tokyo/Scramble Formation

Yes, the first two Darius games were dull and generic. There, I said it.

[Drum]

^ Darius has its fans but that's hardly a controversial opinion. Ryu Jin is pretty good, I think. Metal Black is not a stinker despite its bad rep.


Skykid:
Equites is pretty cool and does not belong there at all, what the fuck is this nonsense? Get it the fuck off the list right now! What kind of monster suggested that?