Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

[Lemnear]

This would explain the almost imperceptible difference between the flow of an arcade game like this and the ported versions. It's a shame, because once you've experienced that "feeling", it's a shame to lose it... but I have no intention of buying PCBs either, because I don't understand a damn thing about "system" technicalities.
It's interesting that there are games that natively exceed 60Hz.

However I read that the Xbox version had this option between 54 and 60 and it would be very strange if it wasn't in this Remix.

____________

BTW I've dusted off a few games anyway, waiting for a new M2 ShotTrigger.
For some reason, I tend not to trust new SHMUPs/STGs. Maybe it's because when I started in June 2023, I explored all the well-known names, then moved on to more obscure stuff, but NEVER Doujin (or modern indies with a few exceptions). I feel like a big name behind it is a guarantee that often pays off, more often than I've experienced with indies which are always okay but I feel like something is missing, something that makes me love them madly.

[Steven]

Notably, the WonderSwan and its games run at just over 75Hz, and the PC versions of Judgement Silversword and Cardinal Sins (which I believe are source ports and not emulated, which is really cool) will too if you have a display that supports it. The SFC also runs at slightly over 60Hz.

I explored all the well-known names, then moved on to more obscure stuff, but NEVER Doujin (or modern indies with a few exceptions).

Kamui. It's super amazing. Same with Blue Revolver. Both are extremely highly recommended. Also RefRain -prism memories-. And CRS 68K. I was gonna say some other game too, but I forgot what it was. If you manage to remember what I was going to say for me, please let me know~

Judgement Silversword and Cardinal Sins are also really cool borderline doujin games. Maybe they are actually considered doujin games, but it doesn't really matter either way because they are good and cool. Those are not what I wanted to say but forgot, though lol

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Notably, the WonderSwan and its games run at just over 75Hz, and the PC versions of Judgement Silversword and Cardinal Sins (which I believe are source ports and not emulated, which is really cool) will too if you have a display that supports it.

The PC ports with 75 hz display setting are basically the definitive way to play these, it's so gorgeous and responsive.

[Steven]

I've been playing them on the Steam Deck OLED with the screen set to 76Hz because 75Hz isn't an option on Steam Deck for some reason, but it's glorious. It's also super easy to set up an autofire button so you can do the shot glitch thingy!

[Faith]

I've been playing them on the Steam Deck OLED with the screen set to 76Hz because 75Hz isn't an option on Steam Deck for some reason, but it's glorious. It's also super easy to set up an autofire button so you can do the shot glitch thingy!

Sorry Steven if this is maybe not super related lol... but for Steam Deck, is there ever any problem with setting button bind to do what you need? I ask because a lot of STG have super bad habit of not allowing players to change control... so, like now... my AutoHotkey file is super, super long lol. I admit, this problem is worse on keyboard >.<"... but sometimes some STG don't even let you change controller bind too! So, does Steam Deck, have a way, like me using AutoHotkey on Windows... to always be able to change buttons if game not support it?

[Steven]

Yeah, Steam input lets you do literally whatever you want, including adding button macros and autofire and all of that. If you want, you can even unassign buttons that you don't want to use, so in my case I have profiles that do stuff like disable the analog sticks for 2D games, or disable the touch pads or back buttons.

[Faith]

That is super cool! Thank you for reply!~ I actually hope, with Steam Machine... whenever they release it lol... that it will have something similar! I wanted to get Steam Deck, but I think now will wait for Steam Machine since for me not really need it to be portable.

[Steven]

You don't have to wait; you can do it right now on any PC with any game by adding the game to your Steam library if it isn't there already and then going through the process of setting up the controls and running the game through Steam.

It's kind of a pain at first, but once you have a control profile thingy set up, you can apply it to anything you want. There are a few restrictions, like how it does not support 30Hz autofire (it goes up to about 20Hz or so, but hard to tell) and I don't think you can set on/off frames, and that you have to ensure that Steam input is active or it won't work, but you can apply it to basically anything.

I've never tried it with keyboard, though, because I basically only use it on the Steam Deck, so no guarantees that it will work with that. I hope it does...

[Creamy Goodness]

I'm trying to play Eden's Aegis and Blue Wish Resurrection with my Mayflash F300 and for some reason it only picks up the buttons on my arcade stick, but not the actual lever. The stick works with all my other PC games that I have on Steam so not sure if there is something I need to do with these individual games to get it to work.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I'm trying to play Eden's Aegis and Blue Wish Resurrection with my Mayflash F300 and for some reason it only picks up the buttons on my arcade stick, but not the actual lever. The stick works with all my other PC games that I have on Steam so not sure if there is something I need to do with these individual games to get it to work.

I can't remember if the Mayflash supports this but you'll need to do one of two things:

a) Flick the lever on your stick that emulates the left analog stick rather than the D-Pad. For some reason I believe BWR only allows movement using the analog stick rather than the D-Pad. Don't ask me why! Most sticks like Hori branded ones have a little switch at the top that changes if the stick controls movement via the left analog stick or D-Pad.

b) Map the stick inputs to the arrow keys via JoyToKey.

[Steven]

Here is something that I have been wondering about for a while.

You play a game that loops. On the loop, it skips the first stage and you start at the stage that was the second stage of loop 1.

Is this stage 2-1 or 2-2 or something else?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

snip

Batsugun Special does this and eliminates the confusion by numbering Loop 2's first stage as Stage 6, then 7, 8, 9 and so on. It's pretty rare for games to drop stages in a loop, I actually can't think of another example, so for the most part Loop # - Stage # works well without any confusion.

[Creamy Goodness]

I'm trying to play Eden's Aegis and Blue Wish Resurrection with my Mayflash F300 and for some reason it only picks up the buttons on my arcade stick, but not the actual lever. The stick works with all my other PC games that I have on Steam so not sure if there is something I need to do with these individual games to get it to work.

I can't remember if the Mayflash supports this but you'll need to do one of two things:

a) Flick the lever on your stick that emulates the left analog stick rather than the D-Pad. For some reason I believe BWR only allows movement using the analog stick rather than the D-Pad. Don't ask me why! Most sticks like Hori branded ones have a little switch at the top that changes if the stick controls movement via the left analog stick or D-Pad.

b) Map the stick inputs to the arrow keys via JoyToKey.

Thank you. Yes the Mayflash does have that switch. Incidentally I could somehow get it to work with my F101 occasionally. But I don't think it was consistent. The F300 it is completely no dice. The Joy2Key seems like the best option.

[Steven]

snip

Batsugun Special does this and eliminates the confusion by numbering Loop 2's first stage as Stage 6, then 7, 8, 9 and so on. It's pretty rare for games to drop stages in a loop, I actually can't think of another example, so for the most part Loop # - Stage # works well without any confusion.

Tiger-Heli and the game I was thinking of, Hishouzame, also do it. In Hishouzame's case, the game is composed of a set number of areas, I believe 100 per loop or something like that. I've never payed attention to what area shows up when you die on the first stage of the loop, but it's possible that it might correspond to being the second stage of the loop based solely on whatever area the game thinks you were in when you died.

Ah what the hell. I'll go find out.

Okay yeah it says the first area of the second loop is area 120, so internally it probably does consider it to be the second stage of the loop despite skipping the first stage.

[Whiskers]

DFK got platinum compatibility status in the ProtonDB (source). That means it’d run on Linux the same way as on Windows. There shouldn’t be any significant issues.

So here’s my question. If I’m playing DFK on Linux via Steam, would my scores be accepted on the Shmups Forum’s scoreboard?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

There's no reason they wouldn't be accepted. Same as any other game submission, just specify what platform you're playing it on when you submit.

[Whiskers]

There's no reason they wouldn't be accepted. Same as any other game submission, just specify what platform you're playing it on when you submit.

Cheers, Bare. Glad to hear that. The last thing I want is for people to be objecting to my scores after I’ve sunken many hours into the game, since I’m technically not running it on its native platform. It’s a weak argument, but I can see some people would bring that up.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

There's some minor differences between the ports, but Linux gaming has come such a long way that I wouldn't see a reason it would perform radically differently from running it in a Windows environment. If you can put up a good score there, you'd be able to put up a good score on the arcade version. It might attract more scrutiny if you're like, putting up World Record tier scores but for the most part the scoreboards are as much to have fun and share strats as to put up the scores themselves 'round here.

[pegboy]

Cheers, Bare. Glad to hear that. The last thing I want is for people to be objecting to my scores after I’ve sunken many hours into the game, since I’m technically not running it on its native platform. It’s a weak argument, but I can see some people would bring that up.

Windows/Steam and even Xbox 360 aren't the native platforms for DFK either. The native platform is the arcade PCB. And almost no one is playing on that so I think you are safe lol.

[Whiskers]

Windows/Steam and even Xbox 360 aren't the native platforms for DFK either. The native platform is the arcade PCB. And almost no one is playing on that so I think you are safe lol.

I meant the native platform the port was originally designed for. Linux players are basically running it under a compatibility layer. Then again, DFK was ported to PC before Windows 11 was released. The OS might run the game through a compatibility layer as well, for all we know. This is why I said it’s a weak argument.

I’m sure most people wouldn’t care about these technical details. But I have a funny feeling there’d be one or two who would make a fuss about it. I’d rather be prepared for the worst-case scenario.

Eh, I guess I’m worrying too much. Bad habit of mine. I should really be happy that I can kick Longhena’s arse through generations.

[Steven]

It's not that different in theory from an emulator. M2 ShotTriggers is all emulated except for Senjin Aleste and presumably Night Striker Gear. So is ACA.

I guarantee that nobody cares, especially because I have several Steam Deck scores posted already.

[Whiskers]

I guarantee that nobody cares, especially because I have several Steam Deck scores posted already.

Mmm? Not even those who disapproved of save-state practice and the “must do your runs on a real PCB” crowd?

[Faith]

Mmm? Not even those who disapproved of save-state practice and the “must do your runs on a real PCB” crowd? :wink:

If not for save-state practice, no-one will ever clear SDOJ Inbachi -_-"...

Really, I think such "purist" not even exist anymore? It would be bad look on community... already... we are too small. Access to arcade is big luxury for most people. And... even for me... if ever go back to arcade... will want to practice in own home first ~_~"... otherwise really too expensive!!~

But that is also why I find argument to limit games to arcade (like EXA) stupid. If cannot at least practice basics at home... I will not try in arcade.

Some people say if all STG come to PC... everyone will not go arcade anymore. I think, opposite is true lol. You let people try, get comfortable... get exposure to genre, and so on... on their PC, with comfort in own home, then I think more likely people want to go out experience arcade after that.

[Steven]

I guarantee that nobody cares, especially because I have several Steam Deck scores posted already.

Mmm? Not even those who disapproved of save-state practice and the “must do your runs on a real PCB” crowd?

Seeing as that partially describes me, as I never use save states, almost never use training modes, buy PCBs and play on PCB if I can because I hate and do not trust emulators not made by M2 and Hamster to run games correctly, still play on PCB for the ShotTriggers games that I have PCBs for, disable continues on everything and don't use continues to practice on games that won't allow disabling continues, and almost never watch other players' replays because fuck Google and Youtube, yes.

Now you know why I clear like one game every two or three years BTW. Averaging probably 10 minutes or less of play time every month also does not help, but you know.

But that is also why I find argument to limit games to arcade (like EXA) stupid. If cannot at least practice basics at home... I will not try in arcade.

Some people say if all STG come to PC... everyone will not go arcade anymore. I think, opposite is true lol. You let people try, get comfortable... get exposure to genre, and so on... on their PC, with comfort in own home, then I think more likely people want to go out experience arcade after that.

Can confirm that I do not play games in game centers unless I practice them a shitload at home using my ultra shitty method (which I am not going to change) outlined above. It's a waste of money otherwise. Only exception is Tatsujin Ou, which I've spent most of my time with at game centers... getting my ass handed to me, naturally. Honestly, there are basically no reasons to really go to game centers now anyway outside of novelty, especially since so many of them are going out of business and the ones that don't are mostly UFO catchers. I don't think even those are doing well now because GiGO 1 closed a few months ago and they had both a massive amount of UFO catchers and a great location.

[Lemnear]

Kyukyoku TigerHeli -TOAPLAN ARCADE GARAGE was recently released in my country it seems, the first M2 title that is natively on the store without having to go to the JP one

[jandrogo]

Kyukyoku TigerHeli -TOAPLAN ARCADE GARAGE was recently released in my country it seems, the first M2 title that is natively on the store without having to go to the JP one

Looking at that Italian words, let’s cross fingers it is not the last and they port also Ketsui, Garegga..

[1000Eyes]

Not like I can reach it, but did Guwange Blue label ever fixed the counterstop?

[Sengoku Strider]

Can confirm that I do not play games in game centers unless I practice them a shitload at home using my ultra shitty method (which I am not going to change) outlined above. It's a waste of money otherwise. Only exception is Tatsujin Ou, which I've spent most of my time with at game centers... getting my ass handed to me, naturally. Honestly, there are basically no reasons to really go to game centers now anyway outside of novelty, especially since so many of them are going out of business and the ones that don't are mostly UFO catchers. I don't think even those are doing well now because GiGO 1 closed a few months ago and they had both a massive amount of UFO catchers and a great location.

You've been more involved with gesen stuff in Japan than I have, none of my Japanese friends have ever been serious arcade goers. Who the heck are these people playing stgs in arcades at ~$1 a pop? Are they rich kids? People with superhuman cyborg reflexes who can clear a game in 20 tries? Guys with decent paying jobs and nowhere else to hang out? I remember back in 2007, encountering all these Cave games I'd read about in person for the first time, being wowed by their quality, but thinking "No way can I afford to learn these games like this."

[Lethe]

Not like I can reach it, but did Guwange Blue label ever fixed the counterstop?

No changes to how the score counter works. I don't think counterstop has ever been achieved though. clp had runs in the low-mid 80 millions. The scoring balance is completely different to master ver, and X360 Blue is itself different to the MAME dump.

[Steven]

Can confirm that I do not play games in game centers unless I practice them a shitload at home using my ultra shitty method (which I am not going to change) outlined above. It's a waste of money otherwise. Only exception is Tatsujin Ou, which I've spent most of my time with at game centers... getting my ass handed to me, naturally. Honestly, there are basically no reasons to really go to game centers now anyway outside of novelty, especially since so many of them are going out of business and the ones that don't are mostly UFO catchers. I don't think even those are doing well now because GiGO 1 closed a few months ago and they had both a massive amount of UFO catchers and a great location.

You've been more involved with gesen stuff in Japan than I have, none of my Japanese friends have ever been serious arcade goers. Who the heck are these people playing stgs in arcades at ~$1 a pop? Are they rich kids? People with superhuman cyborg reflexes who can clear a game in 20 tries? Guys with decent paying jobs and nowhere else to hang out? I remember back in 2007, encountering all these Cave games I'd read about in person for the first time, being wowed by their quality, but thinking "No way can I afford to learn these games like this."

Someone somehow managed to 2-ALL Tatsujin Ou using nothing but practice in a game center. MAME didn't exist yet (interestingly, MAME was released on the exact same day as DoDonPachi) and the FM Towns version also didn't exist until a few months before the first known 2-ALL supposedly happened. That's not even anywhere close to the hardest game in the genre, and yet all of the harder ones have been cleared in game centers, too. Someone actually put in enough 100 yen coins to eventually be able to 2-ALL Tatsujin Ou, and also some games that are infinitely more difficult, like Daioujou, a game that I don't even want to play for free.

I don't know. Most games that I've cleared were done through nothing other than my own observation, so with something like Kyuukyoku Tiger, a game that I guess people say is very difficult (it isn't, not really), I have no idea what other players' strategies are. It's way easier to clear games when you can talk to other players and watch them play, and you can do that in game centers. Or Youtube, now that game centers are mostly irrelevant or don't exist, depending on where you are.

In any case, I usually won't practice in game centers. It's a giant waste of money. Why go pay $1 or more on a single credit (Mikado's asking for 300 fucking yen for a single go at Gradius III now!!!) when I can play at home for free and have better autofire settings and better monitors, be able to use whatever controllers I want instead of being stuck with a lever, which I hate enough for it to be one of my least favourite controllers ever, and the niceness of being able to play without having to go somewhere annoying? Well... the novelty of playing in a game center, one that's probably loud enough for you to not even be able to hear the music of the game you are playing, and that may or may not be smelly and/or dirty and/or crowded, might have super fucked up monitors (anyone want to play Mushihimesama and Darius on monitors with partial vertical collapse, like I've seen before? No? Yeah, I didn't think so lol) on the games you want to play, might not have autofire at all or might have weird autofire settings (Hishouzame with NO regular shot button and only 30Hz, anyone? Yep, seen that and played like that once and it sucked), and might not even have any games that you actually want to play? Yeah, no.

Maybe it's because I grew up after arcades already were dead, or maybe they were just dead where I lived or never really existed there at all, or, more likely, a combination of all of the above, but I have no particular love for arcades. They are cool, at least the ones that have things that I actually want to play, but aside from the novelty, there is little reason to go right now. Maybe there was back in the day, but I didn't exist yet, so...