Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

[Steven]

I'm pretty sure Cotton Rock 'n' Roll is the most recent arcade STG to have a home release. There is also Shinorubi, which is currently sitting at a pretty horrible 50% positive on Steam, but knowing shitty exa, Shinorubi probably started as a home game and then became an arcade game later. I guess the home version is intentionally gimped to make you want to play shitty exa's version because that's how shitty exa rolls, which makes me want to play neither. I don't think I've actually seen the game in any of the local exa machines, though.

Of course, wait six months and you'll have the new Sonic Wings. Hopefully that doesn't suck.

[Lemnear]

I'm pretty sure Cotton Rock 'n' Roll is the most recent arcade STG to have a home release. There is also Shinorubi, which is currently sitting at a pretty horrible 50% positive on Steam, but knowing shitty exa, Shinorubi probably started as a home game and then became an arcade game later. I guess the home version is intentionally gimped to make you want to play shitty exa's version because that's how shitty exa rolls, which makes me want to play neither. I don't think I've actually seen the game in any of the local exa machines, though.

Of course, wait six months and you'll have the new Sonic Wings. Hopefully that doesn't suck.

I noticed a big gap, and basically the last wave dating back to the X360 era, were native console games, then ported to Arcade...
so we would go even further back...
I don't like EXA's modus operandi...even if it has a succulent lineup, if they did porting they would sell out especially now that they have a lot of unique EXA-Label versions.

I wonder what Sonic Wings Reunion will be like...(what a shitty name anyway...)
So the only one still making arcade today is Success...in the SHMUPS field, that is, and EXA.
In fact from the wikia (perhaps not updated) it's not like there are many new SEGA.AllNet or NESICAxLive things. I don't know if Taito has its own circuit, or if Konami is still relevant in the sector.

[Steven]

Konmai still makes arcade games. I remember trap15 and I went to a location test for Chase Chase Jokers a few years ago... he played it and I watched, but after he said it was confusing, clunky, hard to understand, and not very good, I was like lol nope. They also still do DDR and beatmania and stuff, too. Rhythm games are some of the more (most?) popular modern arcade games aside from whatever the newest Tekken is, so it's not too unexpected for Konmai to do those.

Taito has its own arcade hardware, the NESiCA, but I don't see too many of those, and either most or all of the NESiCA games that I've actually seen in arcades are rereleases of old games like Raiden IV, Ikaruga, Crimzon Clover, and Arcana Heart 3 or whatever. I have all of those games at home on PC (save Ikaruga, which I have on Dreamcast) and I think the NESiCA is basically just a PC, so there is literally no reason for me to waste money playing those in the arcade when I can get exactly the same experience at home but with a better controller. I did play NESiCA Crimzon Clover once, and I was like "yep, it's Crimzon Clover alright".

The only other new arcade STG that I can think of from recent years aside from Cotton is Senjin Aleste. I doubt that many people here have played it, but I have, but only like twice, both times one credit each, and those were sacrificial credits just to figure out how the game works. It's... okay, I guess. I'd need more time with it to judge it, but the general consensus is that it's super super super easy for an arcade game.

[Lemnear]

Konmai still makes arcade games. I remember trap15 and I went to a location test for Chase Chase Jokers a few years ago... he played it and I watched, but after he said it was confusing, clunky, hard to understand, and not very good, I was like lol nope. They also still do DDR and beatmania and stuff, too. Rhythm games are some of the more (most?) popular modern arcade games aside from whatever the newest Tekken is, so it's not too unexpected for Konmai to do those.

Taito has its own arcade hardware, the NESiCA, but I don't see too many of those, and either most or all of the NESiCA games that I've actually seen in arcades are rereleases of old games like Raiden IV, Ikaruga, Crimzon Clover, and Arcana Heart 3 or whatever. I have all of those games at home on PC (save Ikaruga, which I have on Dreamcast) and I think the NESiCA is basically just a PC, so there is literally no reason for me to waste money playing those in the arcade when I can get exactly the same experience at home but with a better controller. I did play NESiCA Crimzon Clover once, and I was like "yep, it's Crimzon Clover alright".

The only other new arcade STG that I can think of from recent years aside from Cotton is Senjin Aleste. I doubt that many people here have played it, but I have, but only like twice, both times one credit each, and those were sacrificial credits just to figure out how the game works. It's... okay, I guess. I'd need more time with it to judge it, but the general consensus is that it's super super super easy for an arcade game.

I looked at the list and most of the lineup...in some cases almost all of them (fighting games, SHMUPS) are games available on console/PC.
With the exception of EXA which however has no "real" new games but only arrangements, there are practically no new dedicated machines (less than 5?), in fact it seems that in the X360 period the consoles were the testing ground before launching them as arcades.

However, looking at Tatsujin Extreme, I was right, Cygni would have been the technical trailblazer of the future, and it was. The second "Next-gen" SHMUPS has several similar flashy effects. Perhaps the trailblazer was R-Type Final 2-3, but anyway, the new 3D technical level required is this, at least.
The problem is the effort required considering the length of the game.

But you surely know, but how many members of the real Toaplan are there in Tatsujin today? Can they have the spirit of the past?

[Steven]

lol Cygni doesn't stand a chance against Tatsujin Extreme. Cygni's graphics are part of the reason that the game is complete shit. A game can be as graphically advanced as the devs want, but none of that matters if you can't see anything because the devs have, and had, in the case of Cygni, absolutely no idea what they are doing.

I'm not sure how many Toaplanners there are at Tatsujin, but Tatsujin is definitely the new Toaplan. Still super glad that they did a good job with the new Snow Bros. Wasn't expecting much out of that, but then I actually played it and it's pretty great, low difficulty aside.

[Lemnear]

In the end, if the old developers don't lose their touch, they remain the best. Now I don't even know how many original IREM members are in Granzella. R-Type Final 3 is as graphically advanced as Cygni.
I don't even know if it's still a good game, I only tried the demo of 2.
I have never tried anything from Success among the old school active developers. Cotton seems...easy...but it is always difficult to judge without trying.
MOSS farted their brains and they thought Raiden Nova was in any way...cool., but they knew it would be a piece of shit otherwise there wasn't already Raiden Fighters Collection Remix ready to "fix it".
Taito/Pyramid got stuck on DariusBurst...sooner or later a new version will come out that includes all the variants merged together.

[Steven]

What do you define as an original Irem member? The one that comes to mind is Kujo, but he joined Irem partway through, somewhere around the time of R-Type II, and his big thing at Irem was Kaitei Daisensou (always was and still is the best Irem STG BTW, aside from the awful slowdown. That needs fixing quite badly!). Oh and Delta I guess. Delta was after he left Irem, though. Maybe that doesn't make him an original Irem member because he joined near the end (which I'm defining as 1994, when they quit making games, causing people like Kujo to move to Nazca and other places) instead of at the beginning, but who knows.

Cotton's great, check it out for sure. Rock 'n' Roll is easy for survival but has a lot of scoring depth, especially because it has like a million characters and they all have different scoring and play very differently. Reboot is great as well. Both of these are two of the best modern shooters.

[Lemnear]

I saw Cotton Rock N Roll...but oh god it looks like a mobile game D: Sonic Wings Reunion won't end up like this right?
Ok I specify "members who have been critical of IREM in general".
Ah well he's the one who led R-Type to the 3D transition....and that very strange strategy game that I can't figure out if it's good or deadly boring.

[Steven]

Don't be deceived by Cotton Rock 'n' Roll's Dreamcast-like graphics. It's a great game. I don't even consider Dreamcast-like graphics to be a bad thing but instead a good thing, as the Dreamcast itself is good and awesome and still looks excellent today if you use a nice VGA box and a RetroTINK or OSSC. Too bad my CRT doesn't have a VGA input, but it even looks so good on the CRT with S-video that I don't care at all that I don't have a better video option to use with the CRT. Damn the Dreamcast is so great!

Uh

yeah

play Rock 'n' Roll.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Which DC game uses pre-rendered graphics like those of Rock'n'Roll? This approach is actually a pretty modern thing and the developers have kind of specialized in it. The devs are not really Success and it's highly unlikely they're in charge of Sonic Wings Reunion (which I read on another forum it'd be getting 2D visuals, btw.)

[To Far Away Times]

Don’t be put off by the visuals, Cotton Rock N Roll is awesome. Easily the best game in its franchise.

More than any other shmup I’ve played, the character selection here really changes everything up: how bombing works, lives work, scoring etc… It’s really fucking cool.

It’s also a really nice blend of old school and modern sensibilities. You have selectable stages that are affected by a rank system, so can customize your route. Its difficulty balance is also tuned just right… not too hard, not too easy. Anyone can 1CC it with practice, but it will take a few tries.

And you have tons of replay value because the character selection changes the game so much.

Honestly, it’s probably the best new shmup going all the way back to ZeroRanger in 2018.

[Lemnear]

Don’t be put off by the visuals, Cotton Rock N Roll is awesome. Easily the best game in its franchise.

More than any other shmup I’ve played, the character selection here really changes everything up: how bombing works, lives work, scoring etc… It’s really fucking cool.

It’s also a really nice blend of old school and modern sensibilities. You have selectable stages that are affected by a rank system, so can customize your route. Its difficulty balance is also tuned just right… not too hard, not too easy. Anyone can 1CC it with practice, but it will take a few tries.

And you have tons of replay value because the character selection changes the game so much.

Honestly, it’s probably the best new shmup going all the way back to ZeroRanger in 2018.

I think it was you who a year ago when I had just joined the forum, recommended two games to start (or re-start) they were DariusBurst (infinite and great tutorial, an exceptional warm-up) and Gleylancer (it looks like a PCE game but it's not, a gem) so I minfid your judgment but Cotton is currently not on sale and I don't know if I can give it all this priority, then I'm thinking about whether to get a PS5 or not, with the 30th Anniversary sales, but actually I wouldn't play anything that is PS5 Only I guess

[Steven]

Which DC game uses pre-rendered graphics like those of Rock'n'Roll?

There's always Mars Matrix, although that's not necessarily a Dreamcast game, and E.G.G. looks to have pre-rendered backgrounds.

I'm thinking about whether to get a PS5 or not

It's a waste of money, so I wouldn't unless you REALLY want to play Tatsujin Extreme whenever it releases. Trust me, I have one and pretty much everything that you can play on it that's worth playing is on PS4 already. It does allow some PS4 games to run better or load more quickly, but if those things are not a concern and none of the approximately 10 exclusive games it has are particularly appealing to you, I wouldn't worry about it.

It's kinda nice if you want to save your replays because it records at 60 FPS, unlike the PS4 (not gonna lie, this is like half of the reason I bought this severely overpriced piece of shit), and I guess it's a somewhat convenient 4K BD player, but that's about it.

[Bassa-Bassa]

Which DC game uses pre-rendered graphics like those of Rock'n'Roll?

There's always Mars Matrix, although that's not necessarily a Dreamcast game, and E.G.G. looks to have pre-rendered backgrounds.

There're quite a few DC games with pre-rendered graphics indeed, but none looks like Rock'n'Roll. I meant pre-rendered elementary models (as in low-poly and basic shading/coloring) but at high resolutions and with a very high rate of animation frames to fool your eyes into believing they're real-time (and coupled with actual real-time models to strengthen the illusion).

I'm not a fan of it (though it's way better than full real-time), but it's actually a relatively modern approach (understood as an HD-era thing as it begun with Koihime Musou and the Wii U Marios, if I recall).

[Steven]

Which DC game uses pre-rendered graphics like those of Rock'n'Roll?

There's always Mars Matrix, although that's not necessarily a Dreamcast game, and E.G.G. looks to have pre-rendered backgrounds.

There're quite a few DC games with pre-rendered graphics indeed, but none looks like Rock'n'Roll. I meant pre-rendered elementary models (as in low-poly and basic shading/coloring) but at high resolutions and with a very high rate of animation frames to fool your eyes into believing they're real-time (and coupled with actual real-time models to strengthen the illusion).

I'm not a fan of it (though it's way better than full real-time), but it's actually a relatively modern approach (understood as an HD-era thing as it begun with Koihime Musou and the Wii U Marios, if I recall).

Honestly, I like Rock 'n' Roll's graphics for some reason. I don't even really know why, so I can't explain it. It's just nice to look at. Maybe it's the low-poly-ness, or maybe it's something else, but it certainly looks much better than something like those Wii and Wii U New Super Mario Bros. games that you mentioned. Ah, I just now remembered that Mario Wonder exists and that I still keep forgetting to play it... should do that eventually.

[Bassa-Bassa]

I'd pick Reboot's visuals by a mile, even if you need a 31khz CRT to really make them shine.

[Steven]

Assuming that I'm playing DDP Daifukkatsu 1.5 arcade and don't care about score and only want a 1-ALL, is there a preferred ship type? I'm guessing it's Type-C bomb style, but...

Edit: wait WTF this game only has 5 stages? I played it earlier today for like the third time ever and made it to the last stage without any clue about what I was doing as Type-A bomb style. Holy crap this game is ridiculously easy if you don't care about score or loop 2.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

B or C Strong style have lots of shot width and are generally the easiest. B is slightly faster which helps for bosses, and green is a high contrast colour with enemy bullet colours, but A and C Strong both perform just fine. The key is to make extensive use of hypers (collecting bees when green or sparkly increases your meter) and use manual bombs instead of autobombs when possible. Manual bombs last a long time and give you a chance to pointblank for damage and additional hyper meter.

Bomb Style is a weaker, but more scoring oriented shot style than Strong is. Strong is easier, but harder to score with (due to its shots killing things quickly you'd want to chain).

[Steven]

Cool, thanks. I have never played as B in this game, and only tried out C just now in stage 1 to see how it plays with both bomb and power.

I have exactly zero new STG clears this year, arcade or otherwise, and the year is almost over, so I'd like to get at least one new non-novice arcade clear this year. It's between Same! Same! Same! 1P, Tatsujin, Batsugun, and Daifukkatsu right now. I made it to about the halfway point on the last stage on both Tatsujin and Daifukkatsu, so those are the leading candidates now, but the latter is practically effortless compared to the former. It would be nice to have an arcade bullet hell 1-ALL, even one this easy. Then I'll go back to getting my skull crushed by Dangun Feveron on stage 2 again, most likely, but...

[Lemnear]

in the end I took the PS5 (directly by Sony), there was a discount from 449.99 to 374.99 (for the 30 years of Playstation), I put it in the cart but I didn't complete the order. Even after the end of the offer, however, the price in the cart was that, but from today there is a discount code of 75, I ALSO used that and in the end a PS5 Digital Slim came to only €299

[Steven]

How are you gonna use it to watch Blu-rays and play and get good prices on physical games, though? Still, that's a hell of a price, and factoring the exchange rate brings it to only about half of what I paid for my PS5, and PS5 kinda sucks as a BD player, so...

[zarakava]

Hello! So I just bought DOJ on Switch, and am having a good time so far. I've fuddled through most of the options, but I'm a little bit lost on some of the Arcade Challenge settings.

Mainly, what is "Spartan", and what are the options for Playet Resources. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[Some-Mist]

I'm trying to figure out maximize scoring in espgaluda II arrange as I've cheesed 1CCs throughout the years and there's a few aspects that have me scratching my head and I can't find answers. there's a quick learning guide on youtube that explained everything I've figured out and doesn't touch on scoring, and there's a 99*99 level clear with commentary that I'm working through that isn't explaining it either.

Edit: I figured out that holding transform and generating bullets destruction multiplier increases to at least a maximum of 500x but it’s hard for me to tell how much that impacts score compared to cashing in on red mode. I also realized the end score multiplier fluctuates between the 100x and 1000x but I’m not sure exactly what triggers it

[Starfighter]

When talking about input latency, most people call it "lag". I really thought lag was something completely different so I've been assuming it's a case of language working like language is supposed to work (meaning if a majority of people start calling something A, then it doesn't matter if it should technically be called B, since the point of language is to convey understandable information). But it just dawned on me that perhaps I'm wrong in the first place and that there's different sorts of lag and input latency really is one of them?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Game lag and input latency aren't quite the same thing. Lag can cause input latency but it's not necessarily the only cause.

Lag is when the game's trying to process so much stuff at once that it can't keep up with everything and the framerate drops. If a 60 FPS or 30 FPS suddenly slows to a crawl because too much is going on, that's lag. If the game's not optimized or there's a ton more stuff onscreen, the game can lag as a result, but sometimes games will be designed with lag in mind, such as in Mushi Futari's case where the game will trigger a special slowdown that's not true lag when a lot of bullets onscreen, but will also experience actual lag when you get a gigantic cancel and the framerate visibly drops. It doesn't negatively impact the game experience as gigantic cancels generally mean enemy bullets disappear! In the case of something like Metal Slug 2, it was laggy due to an issue with how it was coded:

At first, this code seems reasonable, and not particularly odd or troublesome. But now think of the problem case: what happens if the game update misses the 'every odd frame' update window? Now the game is waiting two entire frames to get back on sync. Because of this, instead of a drop from 30 FPS to 20 FPS, it is now effectively a drop to 15 FPS. If it drops to 15 FPS, it's not affected, but if it would drop to 10 FPS, it drops to 7.5 FPS. This is very very significant, and is what makes the game run at a snail's pace. Most of the time the game is not even dropping to 15, it's only displaying as such because of the poor frame limiter code. Yes, this is actually why it runs so poorly.

Input latency is a separate issue. It means the time between the circuit being closed for a button or stick input, and the game registering that closed circuit and making the input. In some cases, programming bugs result in input latency coming from the game itself, such as Guardian Force having an enormous amount of built-in input lag. Lag as in framerate drops can cause input latency, but generally what we're talking about when we mean input latency is when the game is running at a smooth 60 FPS and it just takes a long time to register an input, usually measured in # frames. There's a few reasons input latency can happen:

• The game just has a ton of lag built in due to iffy programming, or due to questionable design choices. In the Souls games, dodging is a negative edge input, as you press and then release the button, and releasing the button is what triggers the dodge. The dodge is not initiated the moment the game registers the press, as holding the button is used for something else, so there's an input latency where the game checks to see if you held or tapped the button. It's why dodges in Souls games aren't snappy compared to something like Devil May Cry, God Hand, Vanquish, Bayonetta, or any other game where the game dodges the moment the button input is sent to the game.

• The hardware has input latency and there's a delay between the command being inputted and the console receiving the input. This can happen when using older wireless controllers, but newer wireless hardware from about the Xbox 360 era onwards tends to have really impressively low latency. It can also happen with hardwired stuff due to something like the arcade stick's motherboard inducing some input lag before it sends the signal, or where the hardware itself just isn't spectacular like the Switch, which generally tends to have latency issues no matter what game you play (minor or major depending on how well they've optimized the game).

• On PCs, you're using VSync, which usually adds input lag, particularly on the early Windows Touhou shmups. Turning off VSync is usually best for input lag, though some specific configurations and games do run quite well even with VSync on.

• There's actually a video or audio latency happening due to hardware configuration, which can be confused for input latency. Some newer TVs have latency that's significant when not using their "gaming mode" that means it takes them longer to process and display the signal coming from the game consoles. Using an optical cable to an external speaker plugged into a TV can induce audio lag where the audio is a few milliseconds behind what's it supposed to be, as the audio is being routed through a separate device before being transmitted to the player. Some home releases of rhythm games actually allow you to calibrate and adjust the in-game input latency to match your devices. Generally, CRTs do not have display latency.

[Jack Emerson]

Help setting up DFK with TATE on Steam:

I recently got DFK for Steam, and I am trying to properly setup TATE mode. I found a way to rotate the screen, then zoom in to maximize the screen space. It filled the space fine, but now it looks like it has a nasty low-res filter over the image (I imagine the zoom causes a resolution change). Has anyone got a good TATE solution for DFK on Steam that does not make the pixels more blurred.

[sumdumgoy]

x

[BIL]

B-Ver adds Fatal Command Techniques straight outta F.T.G.

Thanks for the deduction, now tell me how you would like it worded on World Of Arcades ?

Wow, so you run WoA?
It's a great site. I've used the Raizing part a lot of times looking at dip switch settings etc. Saved my ass yesterday!

How about:
"This is the so called B-Version, released for the japanese market. Acc. to the manual, it allows the Garegga formations to be changed by inputting Street Fighter-style moves (for 2-button machines)"


The actual moves and the aforementioned info can be found in the lower part of the second page of the B-version manual: http://www.world-of-arcades.net/APPA/AA ... _Addon.pdf

[sumdumgoy]

x

[To Far Away Times]

I played a random credit of 19XX after not playing it for many years and got all the way up to stage 4 blind. I'm thinking of going for the clear, though I know this one gets pretty tough by the end. How's this one compare difficulty wise to some other games in the genre?