Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

[Ji-L87]

Looking at the new 2015 lineup so far, it seems it was a good thing I picked a 2014 model 55W805BBN then. Couldn't find any larger displays in that model range here though (at least I think bigger sizes existed?), but supposedly those had problems? Here, they instead sold the W850B and W950B series at 60" and 65" sizes - at considerable higher prices ofc.

[Xyga]

There's a 70W850B in the US and Canada.

[RGB32E]

I was able to checkout the KDL-65W850C yesterday in more depth. Took a panel close-up and measured lag.

The panel as shown below is most definitely different than what is used in the 75" model, though I cannot identify what the exact panel type tech it uses. Darker pixel values are represented as smaller domain with full intensity, and appear to fill upwards for brighter values.



The input lag seems to be more of the same from Sony in 2015 - about 35 ms. I'm staring to wonder if most all of the Sony TVs in 2015 will be about 35ms, as it seems to be a "great" way to make the case that why bother with FHD when UHD has the same lag!



I also tested the XBR-65X930C (top 2015 model @ 65") and the Samsung UN65JS8500 (top 2015 flat model @ 65"). The X930C input lag was measured to be 35.4ms and the JS8500 to be 38.5ms. I was expecting lower numbers from the Samsung, but did not change the input label to PC as the sales person at that location had control issues with the remote. So, the JS8500 was measured with default game mode settings.

To recap, I've tested the following 2015 models for input lag:

KDL-65W850C - 35.7ms
KDL-75W850C - 35.0ms
XBR-55X850C - 35.3ms
XBR-65X930C - 35.4ms
UN65JS8500 - 38.3ms

All of these models aside from the Samsung are a millisecond faster than my current set. I find my TV to be the threshold for acceptable (YMMV). I would have liked to see lower numbers like last years W800B and W950B. Perhaps Sony will make game mode lag improvements in FW, but there's no guarantee this will happen. Rogo over on AVSForum has been predicting that Sony will leave the TV business within the next couple of years. I'm hoping we will at least have 2016 models before they abandon the TV biz and just license the Sony brand like Pioneer did in Europe!

[Xyga]

If Sony leave we'll be left with mostly only the Korean brands, then the Chinese will come to fill the gaps.
(I don't expect Panasonic, Sharp or Toshiba to resurrect and become big players again)

Japanese consumer electronics are really at the end of the road.

Now for the future if LG fuck up with OLED we're doomed, 'Sports' Samsung sets and cheap Chinese Wal-Mart-like sets forever. ><

[blackoak]

damn. i should probably pick up a 65" 950b before its too late, but that already seems like a sketchy ebay buy at this point...

[RGB32E]

Yeah, the KDL-55W950B is still available from Sony directly for $999.99. If I could find one locally for that price I'd pick it up!

[Shining]

Much appreciated, RGB32. Do we know anything at all about the w75c models?

Currently i see two options for me:

55W805B for €730 ($800)
or
55W955B for €865 ($955)

It would have been a no-brainer if it weren't for the horrible black levels on the 955b. I do a lot of gaming in a dark room and love dark horror games so maybe the 955B isn't for me. Opinions?

[BONKERS]

What does the 955 have over the 805 that would benefit you? (Aside from viewing angles)

[Shining]

Slightly lower input lag? And that Triluminos tech i guess.

[Xyga]

The IPS panel will be more responsive on some 'difficult' color transitions...

[RGB32E]

Much appreciated, RGB32. Do we know anything at all about the w75c models?

My pleasure. Not sure about the W75C, as it's not a 2015 series here. It looks like Sony is only releasing 5 2015 FHD models in the US:

• KDL-40R510C
  KDL-48R510C
  KDL-50W800C - 37.4ms lag?!, W800B was only 22.6ms!
  KDL-65W850C
  KDL-75W850C

Currently i see two options for me:

55W805B for €730 ($800)
or
55W955B for €865 ($955)

It would have been a no-brainer if it weren't for the horrible black levels on the 955b. I do a lot of gaming in a dark room and love dark horror games so maybe the 955B isn't for me. Opinions?

Buy both, keep the one you end up preferring and return the other?

Given that input lag is a 3-4ms (?) difference between the two models, I think it would be hard to actually put one above the other in that regard.

Here's what I'd consider:

• W8 VA panel for better black level than W9 IPS
  W8 VA panel should be much more uniform than W9 IPS
  W9 IPS should have richer color due to WCG backlight (Triluminos)

I gifted a 55" W800B last year and have played my PS4 on it for about ~6hrs total. Much more responsive than my XBR8 (22ms vs 36ms), black levels were on par or better in game mode as well. Motion actually looked better to me on the W800B than my XBR8 as well! The W800B panel is also more uniform than my XBR8! The impulse in game mode was kind of useless though since even with the backlight cranked to the max, it was still too dim in a darkened environment for my tastes. The main thing I still prefer with my XBR8 (RGB-LED "Triluminos") is the richness of the color, especially with the Wide color setting is turned on, which is separate from Live color. Hence, the main reason why I believe someone would want the W9 over the W8 is for IPS and Triluminos, but at the cost of black levels and panel uniformity.

Either set would be a great choice for gaming, especially since they are the last ones from Sony for now. Good Luck!

[Shining]

Once again, thanks! I compared the two sets today at a store and you are pretty spot on regarding the pros/cons of the IPS vs VA. I put both in game mode and made sure they both had the same settings and they both sure looked nice. Because of the bright light in the store i couldn't tell a differance regarding the black levels of the two sets, but i liked the colors, great viewing angles and overall picture of w955b a bit more.

One weird thing i noticed about the w955b though was that it had very noticable horizontal lines running across the screen that almost looked like faint scanlines when up close. I should have taken a picture of it, it was like as if every other pixel row were slightly darker or had a slightly different tone. I went to another store and that set displayed the exact same thing. Maybe it's part of the IPS panel structure? Up close it looked kind of bad.

[Xyga]

It may be because of the passive 3D polarizing filter layer.

[RGB32E]

NP! Yeah, the W95's colors can certainly look richer than the W8. The horizontal lines on the screen are the IPS FPR, so I guess that's another con of the IPS 3D panel. Though in actual use, it may or may not be an issue.

EDIT: Xyga, yes, more than likely.

[Shining]

I see. That completely kills it for me as the lines are very distinct on solid colored backgrounds. Therefore i will be picking up a 55w805b today

[blackoak]

The W850A had most of the same feature set as the W900A except for it being a 120Hz panel instead of 240Hz, and the MotionFlow being "XR480" instead of "XR980".

Sorry to reply to this older bit of thread, but... has anyone compared the picture quality of the w850a vs w900? I've read a few posts on neogaf saying the w900 was pretty much the pinnacle for those Sony sets. Specifically, I wonder how the XR480 vs XR980 difference plays out. I use impulse mode for the CRT-ish smooth motion (I don't notice the flicker) on games and really love it; would it be worse on the 850a because the MotionFlow is "inferior" ? Also not sure how the 120hz panel would affect things.

I could just hold out, but I'm worried there won't be another low-input lag 65" hdtv for awhile... or ever!

[Xyga]

Several 2015 Samsung sets are said to be pretty good with only about 20ms lag (LB) and responsive-enough panels.
Starting with the **JU7*** series and JS series as well. Different price categories though.
Check the reviews on hdtvtest and rtings.

But yeah it's still time to get one of the high-end Sonys, personally I'd go with the W850 for the better black levels and absence of possibly annoying passive 3D polarizing filter.
The MF maketing labels (XR blah blah) and HZ nonsense don't matter as long as the actual setting are available in the menus (check the model's online manual).
Fudoh posted what those actually do, I think just a few pages back.

[RGB32E]

Sorry to reply to this older bit of thread, but... has anyone compared the picture quality of the w850a vs w900? I've read a few posts on neogaf saying the w900 was pretty much the pinnacle for those Sony sets.
...
I could just hold out, but I'm worried there won't be another low-input lag 65" hdtv for awhile... or ever!

The 2013 W900A and W850A were the last of the VA Triluminos FHD models from Sony, and I don't see them making another FHD model with that configuration. I really wish I would have bought a W900A, but it would have had to replace my XBR8 that has full array local dimming. I'd be ok with a UHD Sony, but the input lag isn't awesome yet (35ms), it doesn't appear that Sony is offering 4x pixel resize scaling for 1080p sources, and the HDMI inputs still aren't 18Gbps?! However, they do allow MF clearness in game mode (same for most 2015 models) and have the n-point color balance settings now.

I've heard it speculated by a TV salesman that the latest FW for the W850C might reduce input lag from 35ms, but who knows.

The XBR-75X940C (2015 flagship FALD UHD) should be popping up in retailers soon and plan to gather input lag data (expecting to be 35ms) and get a general take on the TV.

Several 2015 Samsung sets are said to be pretty good with only about 20ms lag (LB) and responsive-enough panels.
Starting with the **JU7*** series and JS series as well.

I tested the JS8500 for lag and got 38ms - worse than Sony UHD models. I set it to game mode, but perhaps you need to change the input label as well? The input label can be such a pain to find and set on many TVs!

[Fudoh]

Quote from the review on trustedreviews.com

If you’re a gamer, you’re likely drooling at the prospect of gaming on a screen as big and talented as the 75X9405C. So you’ll be very pleased to hear that, using the TV’s game picture preset, we recorded a very impressive input lag measurement of around 20ms.

dammit. Gotta set aside 9000 EUR for later this year.....

[Xyga]

75X9405C.
...
Gotta set aside 9000 EUR for later this year.....

9990€ ! Jumalauta ! It better be perfect.
Is that the only 4K Sony with low lag ? (as far as we know)

[BONKERS]

Sorry to reply to this older bit of thread, but... has anyone compared the picture quality of the w850a vs w900? I've read a few posts on neogaf saying the w900 was pretty much the pinnacle for those Sony sets.
...
I could just hold out, but I'm worried there won't be another low-input lag 65" hdtv for awhile... or ever!

The 2013 W900A and W850A were the last of the VA Triluminos FHD models from Sony, and I don't see them making another FHD model with that configuration. I really wish I would have bought a W900A, but it would have had to replace my XBR8 that has full array local dimming. I'd be ok with a UHD Sony, but the input lag isn't awesome yet (35ms), it doesn't appear that Sony is offering 4x pixel resize scaling for 1080p sources, and the HDMI inputs still aren't 18Gbps?! However, they do allow MF clearness in game mode (same for most 2015 models) and have the n-point color balance settings now.

I've heard it speculated by a TV salesman that the latest FW for the W850C might reduce input lag from 35ms, but who knows.

The XBR-75X940C (2015 flagship FALD UHD) should be popping up in retailers soon and plan to gather input lag data (expecting to be 35ms) and get a general take on the TV.

Several 2015 Samsung sets are said to be pretty good with only about 20ms lag (LB) and responsive-enough panels.
Starting with the **JU7*** series and JS series as well.

I tested the JS8500 for lag and got 38ms - worse than Sony UHD models. I set it to game mode, but perhaps you need to change the input label as well? The input label can be such a pain to find and set on many TVs!

For samsungs, you have to set it into PC mode generally. Which is changing the Input label to PC, or DVI whichever it has in the unit.


The lack of exact 4x pixel scaling for 1080p to 2160p is puzzling too. I mean essentially, it is the same scaling PSP games do on the Vita.
2x2 in each direction.

Really though, 4k just isn't there yet. And console games, yeesh, if Sony and Microshit have their way. We won't see home consoles capable of that for near a decade or more.

They are struggling just to get decent performance at 1080p ffs.

[juji82]

Can anybody confirm that also the KDL-32W700b (2014) has low lag?

[Xyga]

Can anybody confirm that also the KDL-32W700b (2014) has low lag?

It does. Here's an british review: http://www.avforums.com/review/sony-w70 ... nchor34362
It's only the 2013 32W650A that was crippled with higher lag.

[juji82]

Thanks a lot for the input! Luckilly I found a KDL-42W802A gently used for 380 euro at exchange rate. Since my budget was low, It was not that bad deal and enough for my needs at the moment

[Xyga]

It will probably never be confirmed with actual measurements, but I've read its IPS panel is snappier, faster, than the other VA models in the W series.

If it's true it would be one of the weakest for movies, but one of the best Sony's for games.

Keep it anyway, because TV sets 'good for gaming' are getting scarce (discontinued Sony W*A & W*B series) or very expensive (Samsung J/U/S 4K series).

[juji82]

Well, I will use it also for movies, I am not that picky since my budget is not so big as I said, i spent alot in cables and scalers/transcoders last year so.. I am happy with my choice

[Laughingman.s9]

Using the gefen VGA to DVI scaler for dreamcast, what should my hdmi range settings be, limited or Full? I don't want to risk black crush by mismatching

[Fudoh]

should be full range RGB.

[Laughingman.s9]

should be full range RGB.

Wow, I can't believe I've been playing for nearly 6 months without noticing I had it wrong lol yikes

Thanks fudoh

[Xyga]

Been trying to give the LED motion mode (strobing) a second chance, for a 'yoko' use at relatively close distance (sitting almost candy cab-close).

While the flickering is still fatigue-inducing, I find that it's relatively more bearable sitting close, maybe because my brain's more focused on that low frequency covering most of my field of view, and not comparing too much with the normal peripheral view ?

But the main issue is not dealing with the flickering here, it's getting back decent levels of luminosity and brightness without completely killing the colors and contrast of the games.
Couldn't find good-enough settings yet.
I'm using my W6 and MAME, as the emulator also includes its own brightness, contrast and gamma setting, which you can modify ingame using the TAB menu.

W6 starting parameters: game mode original
- backlight: max
- contrast: max
- gamma: 0
- contrast enhancer: low
- LED motion mode: on

MAME starting parameters:
- default brightness
- default contrast
- default gamma

So I've tried applying the W6's contrast enhancer, which I must admit brought the picture to life, but the higher the setting, the more washed-out-bright/burnt the clear areas look.
Upping the W6's gamma to +1 helps well, and +2 even more but the colors start to look off.
A bit of details enhancer could aslo help make the image pop out more.
...haven't found proper settings reaching an aceptable level of luminosity while not looking like shit yet.
Messing with the color settings got me even further from acceptable looks. Argh.

Tried cheating a bit using MAME's internal settings but the issues are the same; upping the contrast quickly burns bright elements, and even though decrasing the gamma a bit helps compensate, it destroys color consistency even further. *sob*

Anyone spent time on this and found globally satisfactory settings ? (even not considering MAME's settings I mean).
Because frankly the blur reduction is effective and pretty much the only right way to use that TV as a shmupping monitor in yoko~close.
Even fake scanlines are retained while moving laterally, which is kind of great.