XRGB-mini Framemeister

[brandonp514]

With framemeister adapter:


RGB32E,

Does the 8 pin mini din transmit only video? And if so, where do you connect the audio plugs?

[Konsolkongen]

Is this using a normal front loader NES or a toploader? I've heard the toploader will give the better picture.

If you look close at the title screen you can see light jailbars, so it's probably a front loader.

It's a toaster. Yes, the white lines are extremely subtle with the mini. I was able to tame them pretty well, but they're kinda unavoidable. I'm sure my next build will be even better!

Amazing The toploader is extremely ugly so that wasn't an option for me.

Could you please post in detail how you modified you NES and build your cable? I would also like to know how you achieved that SNES picture. The late model SNES's I have seen are very sharp as well, but there is a hint of ghosting on all objects. Can this be removed by using better capacitors?

Are the scaler settings something that are useful to share or would I just have to experiment.

Check the thread... I already posted about this. With pretty much all sources turn auto scaler to off, and set H_Scaler from 6 (default) to 4 or 5. Done!

Does this also apply if I want to use 2x scaling and scanlines?

[Plasia]

Thanks Fudoh, the 1.4 English firmware clears up a lot of things.

Do we have a list of what all these processing modes do? Standard, Game1, Game2 etc...

I'm still waiting for the parts to make my euro -> jp21 converter and for my component to d-terminal cable so I can't work these out myself. (Also I really don't want to even bother with the composite/svideo inputs).

[Konsolkongen]

Why don't you just resolder the RGB21 to 8 mini DIN cable that comes with the Mini, to SCART standard? That's what I'm gonna do when mine arrives early next week.

[Fudoh]

Do we have a list of what all these processing modes do? Standard, Game1, Game2 etc...

read the paragraph right under the remote control insert in my review.

[retr0gamer]

Konsolkongen: if you don't replace the capacitors in your SNES in a month or so, I'll buy the SNES from console5.com that's had all brand new capacitors installed to see what the picture looks like, for science. They sell cap kits too that seem very reasonably priced. I emailed the owner and he was interested as well to see if replacing the capacitors improves our video problem.

[Konsolkongen]

Isn't the capacitors RGB32E's using of a special quality/brand?

[Fudoh]

they are, but that's not the point. "Better" capacitors don't perform differently, they just have a longer lifespan. If you're going to replace any caps, either in the cable or in the SNES itself, you can use whichever type you can find or have on hand.

[alamone]

Has anyone had problems with momentary dropouts / blackouts?

I'm not sure if it's a problem with my signal chain, loose cabling, or a problem with the XRGB-mini itself.
Very occasionally (maybe once an hour) the signal will drop out, leaving the screen black for about 5 seconds
while the signal is established again. All my settings are default, 720P output, v1.4 firmware.
Sources are PCBs (tried Tatsujin-oh and Strikers 1999) and RGB modded NES.

[Fudoh]

Has anyone had problems with momentary dropouts / blackouts?

Yes, with the Everdrive, but usually only right after loading a new rom. The very same game as a cart works fine though. I will have the signal measured sometime over the next weeks, so see what the difference exactly is.

[RGB32E]

Does the 8 pin mini din transmit only video? And if so, where do you connect the audio plugs?

No, the 8 pin mini din allows for stereo audio input. I broke out the audio so it could be directly connected to my preamp, avoiding the conversion back and forth from analog to digital (e.g. Source D/A -> Framemeister A/D -> TV/Receiver/DAC D/A).

[Fudoh]

I did some further testing with Mega Drive and Master System games, with and without Everdrive. It's a safe guess to say that original MD carts do not require any further processing. Everdrive with MD games produces some random dropouts. Everdrive with MS games produces even more dropouts. Everdrive + any additional adapter increases the number of dropouts even more. I don't have an original MS adapter, but I suspect it to raise the number of dropouts as well. I'm using raw sync from the MD already, but added a LM1881 based stripper to the sync line nevertheless. After this *ALL* dropouts, no matter if MD or MS games were gone.

@alamone: adding a LM1881 to your Supergun and NES output should cure your dropouts as well.

[alamone]

I don't have any LM1881 chips handy; I'll try using my Extron Sync cleaner box (SC210) to see if that helps.

[Fudoh]

Should have the same effect. Let us know !

[Konsolkongen]

Thanks for the tip. I haven't tried using a LM1881 on something already c.sync. I expect the picture quality won't suffer?

[Fudoh]

I can't spot any difference.

[Artemio]

In my case, it did suffer with CPS-2 when using the XRGB-3... but not with others. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OxmrN6BH0k

It *did* mitigate issues with the Genesis and Neo geo though.

I ended up removing it, so I can't test it now. BTW, just got my mini.. s/n 887 =)


EDITED: Link to correct video with switch

[Konsolkongen]

I have 3 or 4 LM1881's already, so I can test the mini with SMS converter and Everdrive with and without LM1881.

[BuckoA51]

but added a LM1881 based stripper to the sync line nevertheless. After this *ALL* dropouts, no matter if MD or MS games were gone.

Wow really? I need to try this on the XRGB3 too.

[shinjig]

In my case, it did suffer with CPS-2 when using the XRGB-3... but not with others. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OxmrN6BH0k

It *did* mitigate issues with the Genesis and Neo geo though.

I ended up removing it, so I can't test it now. BTW, just got my mini.. s/n 887 =)


EDITED: Link to correct video with switch

I've noticed that on my monitor and capture card using the jrok sync cleaner... though I'm rewiring my arcade cab right now. I'll do a test and see how it looks without the cleaner.

Also while I'm here, I notice this white wavy paterns on my monitor. Could the jrok sync cleaner also be the cause of this?

[alamone]

Adding the sync cleaner appears to fix the dropout issue, at least I didn't see any during my testing time.
Unfortunately the XRGB-mini is not very compatible with arcade PCBs, unless they are very close to standard NTSC sync rate.
See my updated PCB list: http://bit.ly/vaEPKl

[Fudoh]

Unfortunately the XRGB-mini is not very compatible with arcade PCBs

I'm confident that Micomsoft will eventually get all the boards running which are already running on the XRGB-3. Currently the sync-lock bug seems to be an issue after all. Do you get a blue screen on all "non-running" boards (like me on the Seibu board) or do you encounter any other issues ?

[Artemio]

I've been testing the Mini for a few hours on my setup, so far only Genesis 1, Dreamcast, PS2 and Wii after upgrading the firmware.

Everything works really well, but here are a few things I've noticed.

- While using 1080p as output, linearity is wrong. The sweet spot for NTSC pixel ratio is Smart 2 in 720p, same as with the scanlines. When using smart 1 or other modes, it is not right.

- When enabling vsync and using a DVDO Edge, a 25ms delay is introduced. Disabling vsync on the mini resets it to 6ms in the edge.

- There is red saturation when using the dterm in and wii via component cables, couldn't figure out how to fix it form the mini's menus.

- When playing Thunder force III on a Genesis 1, the image kept jumping every now and then. Signal was never lost. Played with vsync on the mini, 1:1 frame on the edge and lock on teh edge, none changed it. This was using an everdrive.. have to grab this cart at my parent's in order to check.

I will do tests with other systems and my PCBs tomorrow...

[Fudoh]

Disabling vsync on the mini resets it to 6ms in the edge.

how did you manage to actually disable vsync on the Mini ? Was this changed in the 1.04 fw ? No matter what I tried, the vsync setting stayed enabled during my tests. The switch jumped back to auto and the full status showed locked output.

- When playing Thunder force III on a Genesis 1, the image kept jumping every now and then. Signal was never lost. Played with vsync on the mini, 1:1 frame on the edge and lock on teh edge, none changed it. This was using an everdrive.. have to grab this cart at my parent's in order to check.

this is what I experienced using an Everdrive cart. Adding a sync cleaner removed those jumps completely.

[Konsolkongen]

It sounds to me (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that with V-sync ON the Mini works similar to the XRGB-3 in B1 mode. I.e. 59.18Hz in 59.18Hz out, and therefore it's up to your TV to support that refresh rate or not? Ideally disabling V-sync should make the Mini work like the XRGB-3 in B0 mode and do a framerate conversion of everything to normal 60Hz, that every TV will understand. Is that what we are hoping for in future updates?

[Fudoh]

yes, that's right.

[Konsolkongen]

Kewl. Not that it matters much, but doing framerate conversion will add some additional delay, won't it?

My Mini is currently in Paris, so I should get it monday

[BuckoA51]

It sounds to me (and please correct me if I'm wrong) that with V-sync ON the Mini works similar to the XRGB-3 in B1 mode. I.e. 59.18Hz in 59.18Hz out

How come it won't work with PAL material then? Or, would it work if I chained it through the DVDO like I do the XRGB3 and made sure V-sync was on?

[Artemio]

Disabling vsync on the mini resets it to 6ms in the edge.

how did you manage to actually disable vsync on the Mini ? Was this changed in the 1.04 fw ? No matter what I tried, the vsync setting stayed enabled during my tests. The switch jumped back to auto and the full status showed locked output.

Well, I played very little with 1.3.. didn't use the Genny with it. I upgraded and started testing, and yes.. it stays that way. My evidence aside from what the FULL STATUS windows shows, was the audio delay on the Edge. I retried it today.. and guess what? The FULL STATUS window still shows and stays as I leave it, but... I played Shadow of the Beast, the real cart and it had the same kind of issues as Thunder force III. So I enabled VLOCK on the mini, and the issues went away. But the Edge still had only 6 ms delay. So I went and played TF III again on the everdrive. It has the same issues, and the jumps are reduced with the mini VLOCK in auto.. but it still happens. And the edge goes on showing 6ms, not 25 like yesterday!

VLOCK OFF

VLOCK ON

[alamone]

Unfortunately the XRGB-mini is not very compatible with arcade PCBs

I'm confident that Micomsoft will eventually get all the boards running which are already running on the XRGB-3. Currently the sync-lock bug seems to be an issue after all. Do you get a blue screen on all "non-running" boards (like me on the Seibu board) or do you encounter any other issues ?

Yes, I get the blue screen on non-working PCBs; however the sync rate is properly listed in the full status page.