Analogue announces the Super Nt for $189 (SNES)

[borti4938]

Please stopp that - in a first point I was dissapointed but then I wrote several mails with FBX and we are both fine with it how it is.
I don't care about getting credits at this board for several reasons. It's based on one of my very first designs, was initially published without any license, (c) or anything else and I even haven't gave any credits to the initial design.

Whats next, hassling Borti to write Tims name on stuff?

Just as a side note: N64RGBv1 board has viletims name on it as it is strongly correlated to his design. I just left it out on the N64RGBv2 as DAC approach is different. I also give him acknowledgement in the N64Advanced menu

OK, back to topic:

The S-PPU portions of the FPGA run at 50Hz mode. You can test it by your own - just look for a constant movement and you will see that it takes 1.2x longer to e.g. walk a certain way in PAL mode compared to NTSC mode. (Don‘t use an in-ame timer, use a stop watch)

So what you are saying is that if you have it set to both 60hz and pal mode it will still only produce 50fps and the other 10fps either don't happen, have the clock speed adjusted to maintain pal timings, or get created by duplicating 10 of the frames/filling in gaps between two frames?

Yes, that's it. You got the PAL speed in PAL mode regardless of having it set to 1080p50 or 1080p60. How it technically works - duplicating every 5th frame or what ever - I don't know. Ask Kevtris.

I simply want to play my PAL carts in NTSC and not getting annoyed by "This gamepak is not designed for ..." messages. My SNESes can do that:
- the one with the SuperCIC with region patch attached to pin 3 based on CIC-key data or pairmode with sd2snes
(I know, the SuperNt has a SuperCIC.lock inside, but I guess pin 3 is left unconnected and the pairmode with the sd2snes has been removed)
- the one with the Ultra16 mod, where the info is read from the cartridge / ROM header, and the region patch is implemented in a tiny CPLD.

[Wolf_]

Please stopp that - in a first point I was dissapointed but then I wrote several mails with FBX and we are both fine with it how it is.
I don't care about getting credits at this board for several reasons. It's based on one of my very first designs, was initially published without any license, (c) or anything else and I even haven't gave any credits to the initial design.

Whats next, hassling Borti to write Tims name on stuff?

Just as a side note: N64RGBv1 board has viletims name on it as it is strongly correlated to his design. I just left it out on the N64RGBv2 as DAC approach is different. I also give him acknowledgement in the N64Advanced menu

OK, back to topic:

The S-PPU portions of the FPGA run at 50Hz mode. You can test it by your own - just look for a constant movement and you will see that it takes 1.2x longer to e.g. walk a certain way in PAL mode compared to NTSC mode. (Don‘t use an in-ame timer, use a stop watch)

So what you are saying is that if you have it set to both 60hz and pal mode it will still only produce 50fps and the other 10fps either don't happen, have the clock speed adjusted to maintain pal timings, or get created by duplicating 10 of the frames/filling in gaps between two frames?

Yes, that's it. You got the PAL speed in PAL mode regardless of having it set to 1080p50 or 1080p60. How it technically works - duplicating every 5th frame or what ever - I don't know.

Huh, that is strange. But it sounds like it would be pretty minor to add a pal 60hz option in hardware if you raised that issue with Kevtris.

[borti4938]

I've contacted him. It was right before I got my SuperNt and I firstly saw that issue in MLiG review. he said he will take a look and he also explained me why the sd2snes auto region patch will not help (as I guessed).
But since then I haven't seen any progress on it.

[Blair]

@Fudoh and FBX

thanks for giving me your (preliminary?) opinions about the sound quality. I'll probably end up doing my SNES upgrade project sometime later in the year. and also attempting to buy a super Nt. as the project seems like it will eventually reach a stable firmware with great accuracy (maybe a few other bells and whistles) and hopefully most of my needs will be met. I still enjoy using my original hardware but I know that it's always a good idea to have backup plans in case everything dies from old age.

[FBX]

For what reason did you decide to leave Borti's name off of your board?

1. I had no idea that was required when using the same Cirrus Logic chip Borti used.
2. I wired the chip based on the datasheet from Cirrus Logic itself, not Borti. I went through pin-by-pin obsessively studying what each 'high versus low' effect had on the pins, and it took me several hours to get the logic down.
3. AFTER doing this research, I compared notes with Borti and found that I had decided on a slightly different 'high low' assignment for a couple chip pins, as well as tying two pins to the same decoupling cap as per the datasheet. Had I just simply copied Borti's board as you say, that would have never happened.
4. I got advice during my board layout refinement from Borti and several others as I reworked it through TEN revisions. I would need to list everyone that helped me along way under your rules, and there's no room on the board for that. I will however, put a special thanks list to everyone that helped me along the way on the ordering page, as I do agree that's something I should have done.

Edit: Ordering page updated with special thanks list after the installation guide links. I tried to include everyone I could remember giving advice or being a pioneer. Which by the the way, alpha-ii I believe was the original pioneer in using Cirrus Logic transmitter chips for the SNES, so I gave thanks to him as well. At any rate, it will take a browser refresh to see the updated page. Let me know if I left anyone else out that should be in that list, and if the placement is fine where it is.

Lastly I apologize for this rather rude thread derailing, but I have to defend myself if someone is just going to make blanket assumptions and accusations. I worked my ass off on that mod board, and I'm not about to take abuse over selling it. Ten revisions and a month of obsessing over every little detail.

[philexile]

This is a little off topic, but I wanted to bring up the shipping cost.

Last year Analogue charged $35 to ship the NT Mini. I assumed that the cost was due to insuring the price of the Black unit, which was $495.

Analogue is now charging $40 to ship the $189 Super NT which is a lighter, less expensive machine. UPS Ground automatically insures packages for $100 and I can't imagine that the unit itself costs much more than that to manufacture.

I also assume that Analogue has a UPS business account, which significantly reduces the cost of shipping. Because my company has an account, I can confidently say from my own experience that Analogue isn't paying more than $20 to ship these units. Also, the $20 cost would be for coast to coast shipping. (The cost of shipping increases or decreases depending on where the package is being delivered to.)

Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect Analogue is hiding some of the cost of the unit in the shipping price. Maybe they thought $189 sounded better than $209? Its a small thing, but it really irks me not because of the cost, but because it seems disingenuous.

I'm surprised it didn't raise more eyebrows – but perhaps I'm being overly skeptical?

[bobrocks95]

This is a little off topic, but I wanted to bring up the shipping cost.

Last year Analogue charged $35 to ship the NT Mini. I assumed that the cost was due to insuring the price of the Black unit, which was $495.

Analogue is now charging $40 to ship the $189 Super NT which is a lighter, less expensive machine. UPS Ground automatically insures packages for $100 and I can't imagine that the unit itself costs much more than that to manufacture.

I also assume that Analogue has a UPS business account, which significantly reduces the cost of shipping. Because my company has an account, I can confidently say from my own experience that Analogue isn't paying more than $20 to ship these units. Also, the $20 cost would be for coast to coast shipping. (The cost of shipping increases or decreases depending on where the package is being delivered to.)

Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect Analogue is hiding some of the cost of the unit in the shipping price. Maybe they thought $189 sounded better than $209? Its a small thing, but it really irks me not because of the cost, but because it seems disingenuous.

I'm surprised it didn't raise more eyebrows – but perhaps I'm being overly skeptical?

It reminds me of ebay auctions that start really low in price but the shipping is 3x what it should be. I'd personally be more inclined to buy one if it were $209 with $20 shipping, I agree that it comes across as much more honest. Especially when they could fit the thing in a USPS medium flat rate box and ship it for $13.

[philexile]

I agree that it comes across as much more honest. Especially when they could fit the thing in a USPS medium flat rate box and ship it for $13

I trust UPS much more than USPS these days!

[Bratwurst]

This is a little off topic, but I wanted to bring up the shipping cost.

Last year Analogue charged $35 to ship the NT Mini. I assumed that the cost was due to insuring the price of the Black unit, which was $495.

Analogue is now charging $40 to ship the $189 Super NT which is a lighter, less expensive machine. UPS Ground automatically insures packages for $100 and I can't imagine that the unit itself costs much more than that to manufacture.

I also assume that Analogue has a UPS business account, which significantly reduces the cost of shipping. Because my company has an account, I can confidently say from my own experience that Analogue isn't paying more than $20 to ship these units. Also, the $20 cost would be for coast to coast shipping. (The cost of shipping increases or decreases depending on where the package is being delivered to.)

Maybe I'm wrong, but I suspect Analogue is hiding some of the cost of the unit in the shipping price. Maybe they thought $189 sounded better than $209? Its a small thing, but it really irks me not because of the cost, but because it seems disingenuous.

I'm surprised it didn't raise more eyebrows – but perhaps I'm being overly skeptical?

It's psychological, you hook a lot of buyers at $189 who then justify the obscene shipping which is disclosed only upon checkout because 'it's just a little more.' This is an ancient marketing tactic, stores never list an item's price with tax in the US, tax is always rung up at the last moment.

There is a poll that kevtris started on Atari Age which is presently pinned to the top of the Classic Gaming General section, basically performing market research before the Super NT was even announced by a few years. When the Super NT was announced, the top answers in the poll were: $150 to 199 as the tolerated price point, 16 bit era games over anything else, SD Card loading over cartridges, and HDMI overwhelmingly against any analog type signal. So it's obvious Analogue wanted a little more and padded shipping to get their true price point.

[Shin]

on the forcing PAL games to 60Hz thing, back in the day, if you had that 50/60Hz switch on the back of your PAL snes, switching to 60Hz was the usual thing to do, and also was for my friends.

Kevtris said time and time again he didn't have the equipement for PAL, seems like he doesn't really care much (I mean I get it, I know he's really busy)

Seems like us PAL carts owners are really going to have to nag him about this...

Would be great to have a customizable key combo to switch 50/60hz ingame.

til then, I keep sticking my carts in the super nt and run the ntsc rom if at all possible...

[SNK-NEO-GEO]

Shipping cost should have been based on the customer's location and not a flat $40. My Supper NT shipped on Monday and UPS is showing delivery for Monday the 12th. For $40, I expect 2/3 days shipping.

[mario64]

Shipping cost should have been based on the customer's location and not a flat $40. My Supper NT shipped on Monday and UPS is showing delivery for Monday the 12th. For $40, I expect 2/3 days shipping.

That shipping charge was nothing more than a lame attempt on Analogue’s part to milk more money from us. I know for a fact it doesn’t cost that much to ship from CA to where I live.

[philexile]

My Supper NT shipped on Monday and UPS is showing delivery for Monday the 12th. For $40, I expect 2/3 days shipping.

Mine shipped on 3/2 and UPS says the estimated delivery date is Saturday, 3/10. We did get some snow today, so the delivery is probably delayed by 1 day. Usually UPS Ground from CA takes 1 week to reach the east coast – in my experience at least.

$40 well spent, right!?

That shipping charge was nothing more than a lame attempt on Analogue’s part to milk more money from us. I know for a fact it doesn’t cost that much to ship from CA to where I live.

I concur and I'm going to investigate this further....

I'll be swamped this weekend and won't have a chance to even unpack the Super NT. I'm just going to bring the package to work with me on Monday, reverse the shipping direction back to CA, and get an estimate for how much Ground shipping would cost both with and without the corporate discount. I'll share my findings here.

[tjstogy]

Ups ships by weight. If the package is 10 pounds, it would cost $25 from Ca to NY according to the ups website. Ca to Ny is worst case scenario, Ca to Ca would be about $12 for a 10 pound box. I doubt the super nt in the shipping box is 10 pounds...

[Guspaz]

When my Super Nt arrived, I checked the UPS cost estimate to ship the package to me. It was almost dead-on what they actually charged me for shipping.

Of course, they increased the shipping to Canada right after I ordered. They may be using the shipping fee to cover the payment processing fees.

[Wolf_]

When my Super Nt arrived, I checked the UPS cost estimate to ship the package to me. It was almost dead-on what they actually charged me for shipping.

Of course, they increased the shipping to Canada right after I ordered. They may be using the shipping fee to cover the payment processing fees.

International shipping fees always cost stupid money but shipping to your same country for the weight the package is should be like $15 max. And if it somehow ends up being $40 you should have the common sense to ship through a different carrier.

[philexile]

Ups ships by weight. If the package is 10 pounds, it would cost $25 from Ca to NY according to the ups website.

Right, but that estimate is for a normal, one-off shipment by an individual. Analogue likely has a corporate account and with that comes a significant discount.

I think the business discount could be 35%, but I'm not sure. If that is the rate though, that'd mean a $25 CA to NY shipment would actually cost them around $16.

Again, this all said: I'd buy the Super NT again in a second. It just really gets under my skin that they threw out the $40 shipping fee and acted like it was no big thing. That is about 21% of the cost of the unit!

[jayde6]

Analogue is now charging $40 to ship the $189 Super NT which is a lighter, less expensive machine. UPS Ground automatically insures packages for $100 and I can't imagine that the unit itself costs much more than that to manufacture.

When they were having trouble getting the tracking numbers out, it seemed like they were using another company to handle the shipping logistics. At least thats how it seemed on twitter. I could be wrong but I just figured Analogue was passing that cost on to us rather then paying for that service themselves.

Either way, way too much money and on top of that a lot of us in the U.S. also had to pay a foreign transaction fee, because even though they are located in Seattle, they decided to run the money through their manufacturers in China.

[Battlesmurf]

More than a week has passed and the Analogue customer service is still asking me to clean my carts.
I didn't expect this kind of low level support from them, It's like they're trying to exhaust me and left me with my broken unit.

I purchased somewhere between 5 and 10 Nt1st /2nd revision consoles (gifts and whatnot). On the one that I was using for myself, the sound stopped working. I tried everything. Updates, cables, etc etc- to rule anything out. It's the hardware. I contacted them and gave them my issues. It took 10-15 emails of them going over the same stuff "try cables"3x, Sometimes only getting responses back like "why do you have 2 sets of a/c adapters?" (despite me telling them I ordered so many and I could borrow one from a family member). "Why do you need audio from RCA?". "Why would you order so many?" Culminating in a response along the lines of "Just sell it to someone that won't use RCA". Incredibly frustrating to send an email "Hey, I've tried all of this, and it's not working, can you assist?" to get an email 2 weeks later that reads "why do you need audio out of RCA jacks?".

Wouldn't repair it, wouldn't give me any options, couldn't help me with anything. They mentioned a discount on the NT Mini but wouldn't follow through when I tried to redeem that. Ultimately I received an 8bitdo controller for my time, but didn't have a system to use it on and I could never bring myself to get an NT mini. I guess it's better than nothing, but it took a few months to get that far. Still don't have audio on my system lol. I'm thankful they gave a controller so I'm not knocking that gift horse, but the whole thing was yucky.

After that, I'm pretty much skeptical of dealing with them in the off chance there's an issue- I don't want to have to go through that song and dance again.

All of that to say- the hardware feature set of this looks great. I dig the firmware updates. The price is much easier to swallow than the other NTs. Even if the jailbreak/extra cores things never progresses any further, I think it's a great piece of kit.

[philexile]

It took 10-15 emails of them going over the same stuff....

After that, I'm pretty much skeptical of dealing with them in the off chance there's an issue- I don't want to have to go through that song and dance again.

Didn't you buy this with a credit card?

If so, any company will have to follow through with timely support and realistic solutions. If they do not you can call the credit card company and they'll put the payment on hold. The worst case scenario would likely be you having to pay for the return of the item. That would be better than having a defective unit.

Culminating in a response along the lines of "Just sell it to someone that won't use RCA". Incredibly frustrating to send an email "Hey, I've tried all of this, and it's not working, can you assist?" to get an email 2 weeks later that reads "why do you need audio out of RCA jacks?".

That all sounds unbelievable. Don't people take to Twitter these days with screenshots when something like this happens?

[ASDR]

Sure sounds like some terrible customer service. Did the other person with the suspected defective cartridge slot on the Super Nt get their issue resolved?

[tjstogy]

that'd mean a $25 CA to NY shipment would actually cost them around $16.

...and that's if the package weighed 10 pounds.

I agree though, that it could be they are using a third party shipping company and extending the costs to the buyers... however the thread they posted about "how much do you want this to cost" is a bit sketchy in context when the shipping of a lightweight item ends up being $40 (and without explanation). Ebay sellers have been doing this forever.... it should be illegal....
Basically, people need to be more transparent with their actions.... but that's in an ideal world, which it's not.

[rule_z]

Sure sounds like some terrible customer service. Did the other person with the suspected defective cartridge slot on the Super Nt get their issue resolved?

They have sent me a new PCB the 22th of February, not received yet.
Yesterday I've wrote to the Analogue customer service asking if is possible for them to check with USPS if there's any problem with the shipment, they replied exactly this:

Hi Andrea,

Your tracking number confirms with the information on our side that your order has been. Let me know if you have any additional questions.

...

[ASDR]

Since they said they shipped it and it's with a carrier that does insurance & tracking you'll very likely get it. Also shipping just the PCB is probably a decent solution compared to you having to return it first. Probably very frustrating, but at least they are addressing your concern instead of telling you to sell it to somebody that doesn't need the cartridge slot

I'm not really in the market for a SNES right now as my 1-CHIP SFC with SuperCIC/uIGR is working beautifully, but I've been keeping an eye on the Super Nt as a potential replacement down the road. Once mine dies from old age I wouldn't want to go through the entire song & dance of finding a mint condition 1-CHIP, installing a SuperCIC/uIGR board, brightness fix, ghosting fix, vertical line fix, recap, cartridge slot maintenance.

Them not offering service for their machines seems worrying :/

[rule_z]

Yep it's a solution (I hope), but however I have passed one month with my Super NT and I'm still not able to play with it
First shipment toke 2/3 days, for the PCB 2 weeks are already gone.

[BazookaBen]

Once mine dies from old age

Chances are, we'll die from old age before our SNES's.

[bigbadboaz]

Pretty much confirmed that this company flat-out does not offer customer service.

It's understandable given how this type of enterprise needs to allocate the resources they have.. but still 100% unacceptable.

[TooBeaucoup]

Pretty much confirmed that this company flat-out does not offer customer service.

It's understandable given how this type of enterprise needs to allocate the resources they have.. but still 100% unacceptable.

Elaborate a bit?

[bigbadboaz]

I'm referring to the stories people have told just in the last few pages.

[Wolf_]

I'm referring to the stories people have told just in the last few pages.

They're just stories. Until I see pictures of someone saying "This is broken" and Analogue saying "We won't return or fix it" then I'm not going to put any stock in them.