Official: Mushihime-sama Futari (1.0, 1.5, BLT)

[NTSC-J]

Man that's fucking weak, I like the difficulty level as it is. While I haven't cleared Original yet, I have made it to the last boss with 4 lives in stock a few times so I don't think it's that hard at all.

At least there's a new mode, I guess.

[EOJ]

Re: my Pink Sweets comment. It seems there is a revised version of that board that fixes the bugs, but not many have been made (?).

[EOJ]

Man that's fucking weak, I like the difficulty level as it is. While I haven't cleared Original yet, I have made it to the last boss with 4 lives in stock a few times so I don't think it's that hard at all.

At least there's a new mode, I guess.

Wow, getting to the last boss with 4 lives in tow is great!
I wish they kept Original the same, and eased up a bit with Maniac, particulary the last boss. I will be happy if they just add a couple more bombs to Original, keep the core levels the same, and make some of the boss patterns easier, especially the last boss. If they cut out a lot of the bullets in the levels, it's going to suck a bit.

I can't wait to see what Ultra mode looks like!

[EOJ]

Okay, I got the confirmation email. Once you upgrade to 1.5, you cannot go back. There is no way to switch between the upgrade and the original version.

[sven666]

Okay, I got the confirmation email. Once you upgrade to 1.5, you cannot go back. There is no way to switch between the upgrade and the original version.

man.. im glad im not in your shoes right now, i say keep it like it is, im guessing the "old" (:P) version will be pretty rare after this is done... but then again id be dyeing to test the "new" version...

[EOJ]

I know, it's crazy. I really don't know what to do, but I already emailed the distributor and told them I'm doing it, so it's sorta too late to go back (they have to contact Cave to get the upgraded version). I think Maniac will be better in the new one, and having Ultra will be great. I'm just worried they will make Original too easy. I think the difficulty is just right right now, with the exception of the final boss being a bit too harsh.

If this original board goes for $5000 in a couple years I'll likely check into a mental institution.

[EOJ]

Okay, another update! Ver 1.5 is actually a new PCB. They don't update the ROM in the old one, you give them your old one and they give you the new PCB for free.

[NTSC-J]

Man that's fucking weak, I like the difficulty level as it is. While I haven't cleared Original yet, I have made it to the last boss with 4 lives in stock a few times so I don't think it's that hard at all.

At least there's a new mode, I guess.

Wow, getting to the last boss with 4 lives in tow is great!
I wish they kept Original the same, and eased up a bit with Maniac, particulary the last boss. I will be happy if they just add a couple more bombs to Original, keep the core levels the same, and make some of the boss patterns easier, especially the last boss. If they cut out a lot of the bullets in the levels, it's going to suck a bit.

I can't wait to see what Ultra mode looks like!

I don't think Original's last boss is too bad, on a run where I got to her with one life and one bomb I got her all the way down to a sliver before getting munched. Difficult for sure, but it doesn't stop me from enjoying the game.

One pattern in the game I can't for the life of me figure out is the fourth boss' final attack. Most of the time I can't even tell what kills me.

Ultra mode should be slick, tho. I'm hoping for some more true last boss craziness.

[EOJ]

One pattern in the game I can't for the life of me figure out is the fourth boss' final attack. Most of the time I can't even tell what kills me.

Right, this is one of the "bugs" in the game. Apparently it's near impossible to get through this attack without bombing or dying. I've tried many times myself and it's just ridiculous. I'm sure they'll fix this.

BTW there is an advantage with Normal Palm in many boss fights in Original mode, including the last one. If you use his C shot it causes a bunch of slowdown which makes the last form of Rasa much easier. You can also use this technique in all the tricky forms of the Stage 3 boss, it really slows things down a lot. I bet they'll fix this in the new release, as it's pretty cheap.

And I think it's safe to say there will be a TLB in Ultra mode.

[NTSC-J]

One pattern in the game I can't for the life of me figure out is the fourth boss' final attack. Most of the time I can't even tell what kills me.

Right, this is one of the "bugs" in the game. Apparently it's near impossible to get through this attack without bombing or dying. I've tried many times myself and it's just ridiculous. I'm sure they'll fix this.

I'm glad it's not just me then. Whenever I get to her I experiment with some desperate maneuver to see how on earth it's possible, then I get killed without anything touching me. It's like those expanding balls have an extra layer of invisible hit box or something. I usually get here with no bombs, so it always means a lost life, then two more bombs used to sink her. Yuck.

[eretsua]

though not owning any pcbs (yet), not yet played futari and actually not even come close to 1cc'ing the first mushi, i do think this news is extremely disturbing. essentially they are erasing the v1 to fix bugs and balance issues that probably could and should have been resolved before they released it! at the cost of destroying the current high score competition and throwing private owners between a rock and a hard place by having to choose between the versions. difficult!

also, why does this require a new pcb? is there something so significantly different about v1.5 that it requires different hardware?

is it to speed up the replacement process and that do actually just reburn the rom and send you a "refurbished" board back of which they already had burned the rom? or has it another reason/motive?

~eretsua.

[EOJ]

is it to speed up the replacement process and that do actually just reburn the rom and send you a "refurbished" board back of which they already had burned the rom? or has it another reason/motive?

~eretsua.

I think it's just to speed up the process. You give them your board and they give you a new one. Then they probably take the old boards, reflash the ROMs with the new version, and sell them again. It's definitely the same hardware, the standard Cave SH3 PCB. They may have to add more memory on the board for Ultra mode, particulary if there's a TLB or other extra stuff.

As for importers being between a rock and a hard place, well, I'm sure Cave could care less about that. These PCBs are only supposed to be sold and operated in Japanese arcades, after all.

Ver 1.5 will be the standard once it is released, and I'm sure all the high scores will be using that version, with Japanese players abandoning the first version. Anyway, the first ver 1.5 boards are sent out on Dec 18th (next monday), so if you're in Japan head down to your local arcade and see if they have it. I'm sure Ultra mode vids will be up a day or two after it's released.

[zakk]

This really feels more like 'didn't finish game in time for release date but released it anyways'. Just from the really obvious setup for a TLB on the end boss in the two existing modes; they clearly had something like Ultra in mind. Although completely adjusting the difficulty is a bit weird.

[EOJ]

Although completely adjusting the difficulty is a bit weird.

I guess with Ultra added they wanted to spread out the difficulty spectrum a bit. The original version board has challenging (Original) and hard (Maniac), so instead of going from [challenging>hard>ridiculously hard], I'm guessing they made it [easy/moderate>challenging>hard(well maybe this will be ridiculously hard, we'll see)].

[eretsua]

is it to speed up the replacement process and that do actually just reburn the rom and send you a "refurbished" board back of which they already had burned the rom? or has it another reason/motive?

~eretsua.

I think it's just to speed up the process. You give them your board and they give you a new one. Then they probably take the old boards, reflash the ROMs with the new version, and sell them again.

i thought so too, yes.

As for importers being between a rock and a hard place, well, I'm sure Cave could care less about that. These PCBs are only supposed to be sold and operated in Japanese arcades, after all.

i realized that my argument wasn't extremely legit/valid for Cave.

Ver 1.5 will be the standard once it is released, and I'm sure all the high scores will be using that version, with Japanese players abandoning the first version.

guess you're right there, too. though i find it difficult as it mean that the original version will get pretty much lost and that goes against my strong archivist's instinct but that is something Cave certainly doesn't care about.

~eretsua.

[Acid King]

If it were me, I'd hang on to the original. The fact that you can't switch between them and that the original version will essentially disappear would make me want to hang on to it.

[Frederik]

Although completely adjusting the difficulty is a bit weird.

I guess with Ultra added they wanted to spread out the difficulty spectrum a bit. The original version board has challenging (Original) and hard (Maniac), so instead of going from [challenging>hard>ridiculously hard], I'm guessing they made it [easy/moderate>challenging>hard(well maybe this will be ridiculously hard, we'll see)].

That´s my guess to. While I have yet to play Mushi 1 (or any of the PS2 ported Cave games...sucks to be a poor student sometimes), the lack of an Ultra mode in the sequel was really weird - stripping features, so to say; and seing how rumours spread about a "hidden" Ultra mode shows how much people were expecting it. The three modes was one of the most prominent features of Mushi IMO.

I wonder what happens with the sent-in old PCBs, though. And if I was Cave, I´d just leave it as it is - thinking about it, the japanese Garegga was broken in it´s exaggerating rank increase too, and nobody plays the revisions with mild rank because the first one is the "true" version.

[Icarus]

...thinking about it, the japanese Garegga was broken in it´s exaggerating rank increase too, and nobody plays the revisions with mild rank because the first one is the "true" version.

What?

[Plasmo]

...thinking about it, the japanese Garegga was broken in it´s exaggerating rank increase too, and nobody plays the revisions with mild rank because the first one is the "true" version.

What?

[Frederik]

...thinking about it, the japanese Garegga was broken in it´s exaggerating rank increase too, and nobody plays the revisions with mild rank because the first one is the "true" version.

What?

Don´t get upset because I called the rank in the original Garegga "broken". I am not saying the game is shit (which it certainly isn´t), but I am saying that a certain imbalance caused a very specific way of playing the game. The revisions balanced the rank out, but nobody is playing the China or Denmark version, because they LACK the challenging rank control mechanics. Or maybe I am wrong and the revisions for the other countries are just "softened" versions.

[Neverland]

Twe
do you ship only pcb or all kit for upgarde to ver.1.5?

my supplier request me entire kit

[Icarus]

Don´t get upset because I called the rank in the original Garegga "broken". I am not saying the game is shit (which it certainly isn´t), but I am saying that a certain imbalance caused a very specific way of playing the game. The revisions balanced the rank out, but nobody is playing the China or Denmark version, because they LACK the challenging rank control mechanics. Or maybe I am wrong and the revisions for the other countries are just "softened" versions.

The Japanese version is the correct version of the game because it has the proper balance between scoring and rank control. You wouldn't be able to score nearly as much points in any of the other revisions because of the hugely altered rank system and the change to the Extend limits causing the imbalance in the scoring system. So in that effect, the so called "tweaked" revisions are the "broken" revisions.

Ever considered that the Japanese revision was the way Raizing wanted the game to be, and that the other revisions were made to appease us filthy foreigners who were pissing and moaning that the game was too unfair in its original design? (Wow, doesn't that sound familiar.) Would you be able to score nearly as much if you removed Extends and fucked with the rank systems in Batrider, Bakraid and Ibara? I doubt it.

Dontcha just love it when someone calls the true version of a Raizing system "broken". -_-;;

On-topic: I'd keep the v1.0 version of Mushi Futari simply because it will be the rarest of the revisions in the future. Granted, everyone will be playing v1.5 for the rebalance and Ultra Mode, but v1.0 to me will be the "original" version of the game.

I do hope this isn't the start of Cave's complacency in programming and design, as they've been good so far, but there are a few things about Mushi Futari (and from what I hear, Pink Sweets too) that suggest that these past few releases were rushed out before any thorough testing, fixing and tweaking were done.

[bay]

(and from what I hear, Pink Sweets too) that suggest that these past few releases were rushed out before any thorough testing, fixing and tweaking were done.

i've read this a couple times now, and i'm sure i'll get to searching threads but what kind of bugs are present in pink sweets?

[Frederik]

Ever considered that the Japanese revision was the way Raizing wanted the game to be, and that the other revisions were made to appease us filthy foreigners who were pissing and moaning that the game was too unfair in its original design? (Wow, doesn't that sound familiar.)

Okay, that makes sense. As a Mame user, I always thought "later version = better version"; I just recently realized how much games are butchered for the non-japanese market with features being altered or scrapped altogether. Haven´t played Garegga not nearly as much to see the scoring differences between the versions; though I knew that bombing the flamingoes without bomb stock from previous suicides would be lame. /END OFF-TOPIC

[Icarus]

i've read this a couple times now, and i'm sure i'll get to searching threads but what kind of bugs are present in pink sweets?

NTSC-J spotted one of the major bugs in the game here.

Something is fishy about Pink Sweets...

This afternoon I finally got to see a master player at work and it was pretty nutty. Maxed out rank is going to boil most of you alive, especially everyone that thought the game looked like a push-over.

This guy had 5 spare ships in stock and hit the C mark while still in stage 6. Then...something weird happened. He died a few times and was down to two spare fighters, then seemed to get back on track and continued destroying the game. Then, all of a sudden he dies, then dies, then dies, then dies...the game was real angry with him, and was kicking his ass, but no matter how many times he died none of his spare ships got docked! He must have died like 6 more times and nothin'. No hidden 1-ups, he just kept on going like he had 20 in stock. He was almost at the 6th boss, his score at E+, when all of a sudden the game froze.

Weird shit.

twe, Am I right in reading one of your previous comments in this thread that Cave are offering a similar fix to Pink Sweets PCBs?

</offtopic>

[Twiddle]

The other extend options are the ones that are imbalanced. About 30% of the possible strategies (esp. in later stages) become completely unviable should you lower the extend rate any. For example, you cannot do the 0-reserve suicide trick on the flamingos at all, and you cannot bomb milk BH v.2 because the rank ceiling will never get that high, which would have given it enough health for it to survive past bomb #4.

If the other extend options/rank rates were balanced, you'd be able to pull at least most of those off.

Of course, they're more "balanced" if you play only for "survival", but Yagawa obviously hates the concept.

[EOJ]

Neverland: my supplier only said I have to send the PCB in the box. I can keep the artwork and instructions here.

Icarus: yeah, from what I've read on 2ch there is a revision to Pink Sweets that fixes some critical bugs, but Cave has been lousy in servicing boards. I'd bet if you buy a new board now it is the revised version, however. If you're thinking of ordering a board, make sure you ask whether it's the revised version or not. Cave never advertised the service nor officially admitted anything was wrong with the original Pink Sweets board.

[Icarus]

Icarus: yeah, from what I've read on 2ch there is a revision to Pink Sweets that fixes some critical bugs, but Cave has been lousy in servicing boards. I'd bet if you buy a new board now it is the revised version, however. If you're thinking of ordering a board, make sure you ask whether it's the revised version or not. Cave never advertised the service nor officially admitted anything was wrong with the original Pink Sweets board.

Ahh, thanks for the info. I'm going to be waiting for quite a while anyway (for more price drops), so a bugfix revision would be quite nice when I eventually go for it.

I kinda feel sorry for all the early adopters of the Mushi Futari kit, having to send back the PCB (and pay for shipping again) just to get their board properly decked out.

[EOJ]

Be aware there aren't many new Pink Sweets kits left. The main PCB distributor in Japan, Fujita, only has 5 left. I'm not sure if they can get more. Excellent probably has a handful left too. Seems Pink Sweets was done in a small print run.

If you don't need a new, complete kit though, then it doesn't matter. I'm sure you'll be able to find used boards pretty easily.

[Varuna]

Just a heads-up... The official site updated with info on the first two stages!

http://www.cave.co.jp/gameonline/mushih ... index.html