TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

[orange808]

Of course. The C2 always works in free run. There is no frame lock. There are C2 V2 machines that claim to have a "frame lock", but the feature doesn't function like a proper frame lock mechanism. Tear lines are handled well enough, but it's definitely not frame lock.

Ultimately, the average processing latency with a 60Hz input is similar to Framemeister. I posted the actual numbers and the free run frame behavior long ago from camera tests, but it's easier to stick to the bottom line.

So, gaming on your CRT will feel a lot like the latency of a Frameister with one caveat: the latency is variable. So, frame response isn't necessarily perfectly consistent. If you're a speed runner or a person that pushes the edges of a particular game, you'll notice an odd inconsistency once in a while.

Also, please stop hurting our eyes with this 1080p to 240p stuff. Obvious aspect ratio issues aside (which should be a deal breaker from the beginning), downscaling native 1080p to 240p destroys the detail of the 1080p image. Even worse, the image appears to bleed across the huge blank scanline chasms on the vertical axis. It looks bad. Scanlines almost appear uneven, because the image appears to bleed from averaging. The C2 is somewhat smart about not doing much damage to line doubled material during downscaling, but it falls apart with native high resolution material. It doesn't discard lines of information, it averages them out and that makes things look ridiculous and blurry. Of course, even if you could discard lines (and no machine can do that with high resolution modern signals) and appear sharper, you'd still be losing huge amounts of detail--and it would still look bad. The C2 only delivers pretty results downscaling "line doubled" material.

If you wanted to downscale 1080p and maintain an appearance or sharpness and detail, you would need to perform "per pixel" dynamic perceptive averaging--something no real time scaling engine delivers right now. The C2 is certainly not up to the task. Even then, the results would still be wildly incorrect.

For instance, you can get somewhat acceptable results experimenting with Photoshop or Paint.net. Using transparency, you could blend a nearest neighbor and a bilinear downscale and get a somewhat acceptable result. It's even better if you use small transparency zones (although it would be labor intensive to handle each pixel manually by hand). Even then, you're still faced with averaging on the edges of objects. If you favor nearest neighbor, things appear flat and posterized. If you favor averaging, things appear muddy and blurry.

[Coope]

So I'm trying to fine tune my set up. I'm currently using the default 240P HDMI setting (from the pre done settings file on page 1) on my 2200A. I'm getting this clashing effect but only vertically (horizontal across the screen). Is this something I can fix with the settings on the scaler or is this due to my emulator? It's a 3D0 emualator which is 240p...I'm not using any of the scaling options so it should be 1:1 pixels. It's also happening on SNES emulation on Snes9x. I'm using a windows screen res of 640 x 480 which is outputting 720 x 240 on my monitor.

Here is the image but you may have to open it full screen to see what I mean. The grid appears as only lines in some parts of the screen.



Edit* no idea why the image isn't appearing. It's here https://ibb.co/LQhyZrT

Any ideas?

Cheers,

Coope

[hipsofjw]

Has anyone had problems with rolling horizontal black bars on their Corio2 unit? All inputs have these rolling black bars going down the image. It seems almost like a sync issue. I tried shooting a video but I couldn't really capture it well.

My current setup is a series of 3 daisy chained Extron MVX matrix switches and a JVC TM-H150CG with the homebrew RGB card. This card has VGA, SCART and RGBS RCA inputs. Before the C2-400, I normally just ran the VGA output of the MVX into the RGB card. The VGA input even accepts RGBHV with no issue.

So far I've tested 480p Dreamcast (using DC2VGA in RGBV mode), OG Xbox, PS2, and a Wii Dualized Wii. All consoles work normally with the TV at 480i and with my Retrotink 5X at 480p. I updated the C2-400 to the latest firmware using a USB serial cable and loaded the resolutions xml from this thread.

Here's what I've tried to fix the issue:

- Bypassing the MVX and going straight into the C2-400
- Replaced the VGA cable with a breakout for RGBS
- Tried a VGA-SCART cable with sync combiner on and off
- Switched to YUV mode and ran the CRT with its component video input
- Tried adjusting the polarity of the horizontal and vertical sync

Outside of these rolling black horizontal line areas, the picture and scanlines look great! I'm just at my wit's end trying to figure out what the issue is.

I'd love to hear any suggestions if anyone has them.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that these scrolling bars also appear when I'm using the console in 480i with the C2-400 in standby mode.

EDIT 2: I'm using an original power supply

EDIT 3: It actually looks a lot like this

If one is experiencing video artifacts from their Corio2 (such as shown on this video), that's not a fault of the Corio2, but only a sign that some more tweaking is needed in order to reach a good result.

[Coope]

So I'm trying to fine tune my set up. I'm currently using the default 240P HDMI setting (from the pre done settings file on page 1) on my 2200A. I'm getting this clashing effect but only vertically (horizontal across the screen). Is this something I can fix with the settings on the scaler or is this due to my emulator? It's a 3D0 emualator which is 240p...I'm not using any of the scaling options so it should be 1:1 pixels. It's also happening on SNES emulation on Snes9x. I'm using a windows screen res of 640 x 480 which is outputting 720 x 240 on my monitor.

Here is the image but you may have to open it full screen to see what I mean. The grid appears as only lines in some parts of the screen.



Edit* no idea why the image isn't appearing. It's here https://ibb.co/LQhyZrT

Any ideas?

Cheers,

Coope

Just as a follow on in case anyone else needs this or I need to look back at it in the future. I've managed to get the checkerboard pattern on 240p test suite for PS1 to look pixel perfect with zero line clashes by changing the adjust window settings on my 2200 including putting H/V crop % at 0 and 1. It now all runs exactly as it should as long as I don't use any stretch to full screen options on emulators etc.

[orange808]

Of course. You have to dial in settings for different sources to avoid scaling artifacts. I expected you'd figure it out and you did.

[Virtual_Tintin]

I'm looking for a way to produce 240p for Game Boy Player on my Gamecube other than Swiss, because I want to use original GBP disc. Let me explain : I have a PAL region free Gamecube plugged to a Sony BVM Multiformat by Component, so I can switch between 480i and 480p. But for Game Boy Advance games, I want to play at 240p. So, I would like to connect either Component cable, or RGB cable (Gamecube PAL has native RGB), to a Corio downscaler, and then go in Component or RGB to the BVM.

Is it possible ? If so, what Corio downscaler model I need ?

THANKS !

[charlizardon]

Am I correct in assuming you're only going to use the Corio for this specific scenario? If that's the case you'd be better off using a GBS-Control for exclusively downscaling 480p imo. If you insist on a Corio, refer to the main post as it's still relevant. Get whichever compatible model is the cheapest, it will get the job done regardless.

Everything stated above is truly conditional however, since GBI through Swiss is simply the better option for 240p GBA, both practically and quality-wise. Whatever reasons you have for using the original disc, make sure to weigh them against the cost of getting a downscaler and opting for a solution to boot Swiss.

[protowave]

newbie here, just wanted to report that i found a C2-6104 locally, followed this guide carefully, and got my PC displaying on my Sony Trinitron! it looks great already and it'll only improve as i get the settings even better. thanks again to anyone in here who has contributed to this guide over the years.

one thing that tripped me up, as a true newbie mistake, was that i didn't realize that there are different types of DVI connectors. since the 6104A only has DVI ins/outs, this was a critically important piece of information that caused me to pull my hair out a bit. a lot of the DVI-to-VGA or DVI-to-HDMI conversion connectors/cables available on Amazon and other retailers are "DVI-D" only, which means that they don't have the 4 extra analog sync pins that are required for proper syncing to a CRT. and as i found out the hard way, you absolutely need those pins unless you want a scary garbled mess to appear on your CRT.

the type of connector that's required is called "DVI-I", I for Integrated. this means it has both digital and analog pins. many Amazon listings will not specify the type of connector because the overwhelming amount of use for DVI these days is strictly digital. the best way to determine is to just look at the pictures and make sure that the large singular pin on one end of the DVI connector is surrounded by 4 smaller pins in a square pattern, like this:



anyway thanks again, here's some images of the unit in action playing some Pseudoregalia - the one game i really wanted to try out on my CRT.

[PC Engine Fan X!]

For protowave,

When I needed to hook up a Taito Type X arcade motherboard to a Sega Naomi v2 I/O Jamma adapter to a candy cab, the Type X only has a DVI-A output interface whereas on the Sega Naomi v2 I/O jamma adapter, it only accepts 31kHz VGA input. Luckily, my local Best Buy store was selling a proper DVI-A to VGA adapter. Upon hooking up the adapter, it worked like a charm. Yes, that particular DVI-A (Analog) to VGA interface adapter is the one to have on hand over the DVI-D version indeed.

Some of the Sharp Aquos 1080p endowed HDTVs (circa 2006-2007) had DVI-A inputs for PC usage (which required the proper DVI-A to VGA adapter if you wanted to use 'em in "PC mode" i.e. 640 x 480p mode & at higher resolutions).

Back in 2000, those super pricy early HDTVs (with pricetags of $15,000 to $20,000 usd -- it was almost like buying a brand new car at those insane asking retail MSRPs) used the old-school DVI-A inputs instead of the newer HDMI plug interface (as it hadn't been designed/developed yet) -- to take advantage of early HDTV programming, you had to sign up for "Zoom" HDTV satellite programming which was not cheap either for the early HDTV adopters back in those days of lore. I recall picking up a Zoom HDTV satellite programming brochure but it did not mention pricing tiers but it encouraged the user to call an 1-800 number to inquire more about it. I never did call as HDTVs were crazy expensive back in 2000-2001. Nowadays, full 1080p HDTVs are cheap & very affordable. Plus if you bought an "HD ready" HDTV, you had to buy an "Off the Air" add-on terrestial hdtv setbox just to get/receive 720p/1080i TV programming (assuming your local TV stations were broadcastiing in HD, of course and not with the old-school VHF-UHF TV airwaves/signals) -- it wasn't until later that HDTVs had the OTA hdtv terrestial receiver built-in.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[coderkind]

Hi all. Done a search can't find the result; I noticed there's links to XML config files for some TV One devices at the start of this thread... has anyone done one for the C2-2355A?

Can you use, or easily repurpose the XML file for another TV One device if not?

[Dochartaigh]

Hi all. Done a search can't find the result; I noticed there's links to XML config files for some TV One devices at the start of this thread... has anyone done one for the C2-2355A?

Can you use, or easily repurpose the XML file for another TV One device if not?

All we do to get those .XML files is manually punch in 15 values from the "orange808’s original programming instructions" text file (linked to in the Original Post. That not only will program your unit, but you can then save a .XML for your exact device so you never have to do it manually again (and then hopefully post that file here for others! - that's how we got the few I linked to in the OP).

Sure, the .XML's save a little bit of time (and you COULD probably just edit those values for your 2355A using another .XML file here as the doner), but the time saved is nothing crazy - just more a convenience thing.

[coderkind]

All we do to get those .XML files is manually punch in 15 values from the "orange808’s original programming instructions" text file (linked to in the Original Post. That not only will program your unit, but you can then save a .XML for your exact device so you never have to do it manually again (and then hopefully post that file here for others! - that's how we got the few I linked to in the OP).

Sure, the .XML's save a little bit of time (and you COULD probably just edit those values for your 2355A using another .XML file here as the doner), but the time saved is nothing crazy - just more a convenience thing.

Thanks a lot for the help (once again).

Before attempting this, I'm trying to update the firmware on the TV One 2355 (as it's running firmware 265, which isn't the latest version, 368). I've downloaded the update from https://tvone.com/tech-support/firmware ... re-updates, but when I click the Update Firmware button it says "File does not exist". The firmware update program can see the TV One unit, and recognises that it's running firmware 265 currently. The Programmeerror.log file says "Information Application C:\Program Files (x86)\CORIO2\Programmererror.log: Thread ID: 11956 ,Logged: 00:47:56 23/05/2024 FILE:mod_scaler_firmware SUB:Firmware_GetVersion Error: 6 Desc: Overflow".

Running Windows 10 Pro. Any ideas?

[Coope]

All we do to get those .XML files is manually punch in 15 values from the "orange808’s original programming instructions" text file (linked to in the Original Post. That not only will program your unit, but you can then save a .XML for your exact device so you never have to do it manually again (and then hopefully post that file here for others! - that's how we got the few I linked to in the OP).

Sure, the .XML's save a little bit of time (and you COULD probably just edit those values for your 2355A using another .XML file here as the doner), but the time saved is nothing crazy - just more a convenience thing.

Thanks a lot for the help (once again).

Before attempting this, I'm trying to update the firmware on the TV One 2355 (as it's running firmware 265, which isn't the latest version, 368). I've downloaded the update from https://tvone.com/tech-support/firmware ... re-updates, but when I click the Update Firmware button it says "File does not exist". The firmware update program can see the TV One unit, and recognises that it's running firmware 265 currently. The Programmeerror.log file says "Information Application C:\Program Files (x86)\CORIO2\Programmererror.log: Thread ID: 11956 ,Logged: 00:47:56 23/05/2024 FILE:mod_scaler_firmware SUB:Firmware_GetVersion Error: 6 Desc: Overflow".

Running Windows 10 Pro. Any ideas?

May not be the issue but my old RS232 cable didn't work so had to buy another. They have different chips on the in side. It might be worth emailing their customer support as they helped me out: tech.europe@tvONE.COM

Coope

[Coope]

Okay I'm pretty sure I know the answer to this but I'm gonna ask so I can stop thinking about it.

I assume there is no way for the scaler to change to interlaced on the fly? Obviously, some old games would switch between 240p and 480i depending on menus being shown etc. I'm guessing this is as much to do with the emulators as with the scaler. Also, can Windows even show an interlaced screen? I'm thinking there are too many factors to get this working on the fly, even if the scaler could do this.

Coope

[orange808]

If you want to faithfully emulate N64 and PS1 games with 240p and 480i transitions during the game, buy a MiSTer.

You'll also have access to extremely low latency GroovyMiSTer video output for many things the MiSTer can't emulate--assuming your PC isn't a potato.

[Coope]

If you want to faithfully emulate N64 and PS1 games with 240p and 480i transitions during the game, buy a MiSTer.

You'll also have access to extremely low latency GroovyMiSTer video output for many things the MiSTer can't emulate--assuming your PC isn't a potato.

Yeah I already have a Pi with Pi2SCART so pretty much was able to do all this but no more than basic N64 stuff. I'm not sure buying a mister just to have access to groovymister will be cost effective. I may just stick with the 240p of the scaler for now, thanks.

Coope

[Yert]

If anyone here has a c2-7100 confirmed running 240p, could you please share your XML or any tips? I've updated the original XML with my model, and NTSC 60hz interlaced is the only resolution that will display.

[Yert]

Hello everyone,

I've been toiling away for a good month or so with this TVOne Corio2 C2-7100, and I could really use some help. I'm trying to get it to output 240p, but I'm really at the end of my rope here.

The Issue:
The TVOne will only output 480i, which is the default preset.
Any changes to the resolution settings (refresh rate, resolution h/v, de-interlacing etc.) result in a total loss of output—no picture at all.

What I've Tried:
I closely followed Dochartaigh's amazing guide.
Connection Setup:
Input: RTX 3080 HDMI port → HDMI to VGA adapter → VGA cable → VGA to DVI adapter → C2-7100 DVI-I/RGB input 1 port.
Output: C2-7100 YC 1 output port → BNC male to RCA female coax connector → RCA cable → Toshiba 32A33 RCA video input port.
Presets Loaded: I connected to the Corio2 via Ethernet and loaded all the presets provided in the Shmups post.
Tweaking Settings: I adjusted all the resolution settings on the TVOne as much as my limited knowledge on the subject allowed.
Output Resolutions: I tried outputting different resolutions from my PC ranging from 240p to 2160p, all of which would only display when the TVOne was set to the default 480i resolution preset.

Next Steps:
I’m considering swapping the BNC > RCA output for an all-in-one BNC > component cable if I can find one.

Request:
Does anyone have suggestions or experience with getting 240p out of the Corio2 C2-7100?
Could there be a specific setting or connection I'm overlooking?
Would switching to a BNC > component cable make a difference?

If anyone has any suggestions or I can add anything else that might aid in your assistance, please feel free to reply to this thread or DM me.
Thanks in advance for any advice or help!

[Dochartaigh]

Output: C2-7100 YC 1 output port → BNC male to RCA female coax connector → RCA cable → Toshiba 32A33 RCA video input port.

You wrote you're using the "YC 1" output, and YC is S-Video (with the little connector with 4x pins)... then I'm a bit lost after that since you also wrote BNC and RCA connectors in that chain (which aren't popular connectors for S-Video), so I must be misunderstanding something...

But anyway, in the first post I wrote "240p can only be output via RGBS or YPbPr-type connections", so if you are using S-Video output, that could very well be your problem.

For the manual for your C2-7100, it looks like that uses DVI as its higher-quality analog output – so you would need to go from DVI to Component, for your component-capable consumer CRT, which uses Red Green and Blue RCA plugs for that.

[Yert]

Output: C2-7100 YC 1 output port → BNC male to RCA female coax connector → RCA cable → Toshiba 32A33 RCA video input port.

You wrote you're using the "YC 1" output, and YC is S-Video (with the little connector with 4x pins)... then I'm a bit lost after that since you also wrote BNC and RCA connectors in that chain (which aren't popular connectors for S-Video), so I must be misunderstanding something...

But anyway, in the first post I wrote "240p can only be output via RGBS or YPbPr-type connections", so if you are using S-Video output, that could very well be your problem.

For the manual for your C2-7100, it looks like that uses DVI as its higher-quality analog output – so you would need to go from DVI to Component, for your component-capable consumer CRT, which uses Red Green and Blue RCA plugs for that.

Sorry for the confusion. But yeah, I changed my output to a DVI-I > component cable and it’s all working now. Thanks the help.

[Coope]

Hi,

Now that I've been using my C2-2200 with my PVMs I am looking to use the scaler on an RGB SCART TV. Can I just use one of these mister cables? https://www.retroupgrades.co.uk/product ... ter-cable/

Thanks,

Coope

[Dochartaigh]

Now that I've been using my C2-2200 with my PVMs I am looking to use the scaler on an RGB SCART TV. Can I just use one of these mister cables? https://www.retroupgrades.co.uk/product ... ter-cable/

It doesn't list the complete pinout there, but the combined sync seems to be on the correct VGA pin at least - should hopefully work.

Keep in mind that many SCART TV's need voltage on a certain pin to turn the TV into RGB SCART mode. I know my normal VGA to RGBS/BNC cables I use (then run to a SCART cable) do NOT have that, so can't get the TV to work unless I plug a console directly into it, which gives you that voltage. -- just something to look into.

[Coope]

Now that I've been using my C2-2200 with my PVMs I am looking to use the scaler on an RGB SCART TV. Can I just use one of these mister cables? https://www.retroupgrades.co.uk/product ... ter-cable/

It doesn't list the complete pinout there, but the combined sync seems to be on the correct VGA pin at least - should hopefully work.

Keep in mind that many SCART TV's need voltage on a certain pin to turn the TV into RGB SCART mode. I know my normal VGA to RGBS/BNC cables I use (then run to a SCART cable) do NOT have that, so can't get the TV to work unless I plug a console directly into it, which gives you that voltage. -- just something to look into.

Ahhh...Some of the listings talk about 5V on one of the pins. Is this what you mean?

Coope

[Dochartaigh]

Ahhh...Some of the listings talk about 5V on one of the pins. Is this what you mean?

If your TV has to have that (and there's like no button to manually put it into RGB SCART mode), then yes, it would need that voltage to that pin in order to switch into RGB mode to display a RGB image.

[Coope]

Ahhh...Some of the listings talk about 5V on one of the pins. Is this what you mean?

If your TV has to have that (and there's like no button to manually put it into RGB SCART mode), then yes, it would need that voltage to that pin in order to switch into RGB mode to display a RGB image.

Yeah it worked!

Photo doesn't do it justice and I know watching video in 240p and not 480i is not "ment to be" but it looks great on my trash-found widescreen CRT.



Coope

[Coope]

So I've got my widescreen CRT set up but proper struggling in Windows 10 to display the res I want. It's set to 854 x 480 and the screen size is correct, but Windows is showing an Active Signal Resolution of 1280 x 720 which means that this is actually what is being sent to the scaler. The only usual solution for this in Windows is to go to "Display adapter properties" in "Advanced display settings" the click "List All Modes" and select the res you want from here...This doesn't work though and will always stay on 1280 x 720 when I select 854 x 480.

It's nothing to do with the scaling options on Nvida control panel as this is already turned off.

Any ideas?

*Edit* - Okay I figured it out. I had to change the refresh rate to 63hz. However now I can't shrink the image enough (both directions) to fit it all on the screen using the settings on TVone.

Will have to play around a bit more with it.

Coope

[Coope]

I have some follow up questions for getting my 16:9 SD CRT set up correctly. The is an SD set, not HD. I know SD 16:9 were not common in the USA but they were in PAL land.

Can someone tell me what res output I should have on Windows and what output I should have coming out of the TVone to my TV?

Currently I've got Windows (PC) on 720 x 480 and the res to my TV is 720 x 240. When I do this I cannot get the screen small enough because the zoom levels don't go lower than 100%

Also do you know how the Shrink H/V are meant to affect the image because changing these H/V values does nothing to the image? I was hoping this would allow me to shrink more.

I can kinda get the image to fit more if I reduce the output res of the TVone to 224p but then isn't divisable with 240 from Windows (PC).

I cannot adjust the overscan/underscan of the TV, at least without a service menu but I don't really want to do this as it'll mess up the consoles I want to plug straight into the TV.

Thanks,

Coope

[Coope]

I may buy another unit, but a 2205 this time because it "should" work being almost the same as the 2200. Can I used the 2200 xml file to flash it or is this not going to work?

Coope

[Dochartaigh]

I may buy another unit, but a 2205 this time because it "should" work being almost the same as the 2200. Can I used the 2200 xml file to flash it or is this not going to work?

It could very well work - but there might be a unique identifier in the .XML file which won't let you load it onto a different model (I think somebody here said they had to change that, then it worked on another model).

Honestly though, it's so easy to program manually (literally entering like 10ish values, then saving), I would just do it that way (and if it works, post the file here for others to use with that exact unit, and I'll add it to the initial post too).

[Coope]

I may buy another unit, but a 2205 this time because it "should" work being almost the same as the 2200. Can I used the 2200 xml file to flash it or is this not going to work?

It could very well work - but there might be a unique identifier in the .XML file which won't let you load it onto a different model (I think somebody here said they had to change that, then it worked on another model).

Honestly though, it's so easy to program manually (literally entering like 10ish values, then saving), I would just do it that way (and if it works, post the file here for others to use with that exact unit, and I'll add it to the initial post too).

I can confirm that the C2-2205A can be added to the "it works!" list on the main post. I've still to adjust the geometry to get it to fit correctly but I'm about to go to work. I used the 2200A xml file but I just changed this line so it read 2205A, see here: "<scaler_ProductType>C2-2205A</scaler_ProductType>"

Here is a iink to the adjusted file if it makes it easier for anyone to set up the 2205A https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PBc9gz ... sp=sharing



Very happy and will set it up correctly after work.

Coope