From Software 'n such

[Sumez]

I don't think "remasters" like the recent Dark Souls one are conceived via the process of "Would this game make us money if we re-released it", but rather "Of all the games we own the rights to, which one would make us the most money if we re-released it compared to how little effort it takes to do so".
I wager there's a bunch of other titles Sony are going to go through before they reach Demon's Souls. Dark Souls is an incredibly strong brand, but Demon's Souls probably falls just short of being able to ride that wave, despite being almost as good a game.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Or it could be that Atlus or Namco Bandai kept the rights for publishing the title in US or PAL region respectively and there is no agreement between two or three as to how share the cost of porting.

[Mortificator]

i know the iron golem isn't exactly the most original boss design of all time but at this point in the game..... what other big armour guy bosses have you fought?

I was thinking of normal enemies like the stone knights in Darkroot. The iron golem feels like a boss-sized version.

It's with another armor guy enemy, the Anor Londo sentinels, that I've appreciated just how much invincibility rolling grants. I can safely roll right into their halberd swings and take an axe to their crotch. I also tried the shotel, said to circumvent shields. It didn't work as advertised.

Anor Londo is a mansion with many rooms, but they blend together after a while. When I reach the main hall, the black orb reacts. Do I want to invade world of the guy who killed the fire keeper? Hell yes I do. What follows is a pretty cool sequence against the prisoner from the church and his two cronies. Lautrec's shotels can chip around my shield, so I guess their ability only functions against player character types. I kill one crony and Lautrec himself, then get pulled back while fighting the remaining guy.

Finding a blacksmith was welcome, especially since he vends various flavors of titanite. I upgrade my elite knight armor and three go-to weapons - raw winged spear, divine battle axe, astora straight sword - as much as possible. I'd like to experiment with some other movesets, though, so I throw some pluses on the iaito, zweihander, and gargoyle's halberd. Since new weapons usually aren't worth using until they've been upgraded, I haven't varied my arsenal as much as I'd have liked.

My enhanced gear immediately gets put to the test against the toughest boss fight so far. Orstein & Smough kill me quickly the first time. The second, I focus on Orstein and kill him, then lose to the upgraded Smough's lightning attack. The following seven attempts are spent figuring out their patterns and how to steadily do damage to both of them. On the next, I kill Orstein with Smough's health low enough that two more hits would kill him. Would, if he wasn't fully healed by squashing his partner. Great. I still win this time, though; Smough's pattern doesn't change all that much.

The keeper of Anor Londo's bonfire had me expecting to meet Gwyn, but his daughter's waiting instead. I get a hit list for what I presume will take me to the endgame and FINALLY, fast travel is available.

I'd been tempted to enhance my flasks with the ash maiden's soul for more health against Orstein & Smough, but I thought she might be able to be restored, and that turns out to be the case. Frampt seems to have dropped in this game from Star Fox Adventure. When he brings me underground and tells me to set the Lordvessel, I seriously consider boning out, since I trust neither a serpent nor a goddess nicknamed the Dark Sun, but my worries of losing my fast travel or getting a premature bad end are unfounded. The designers have seen fit to have Frampt be a venue for converting items into souls, long after a reasonable player (e.g. me) has been dropping excess junk instead of hording it.

The final quest I scratch off my itinerary before focusing on the four lord souls is buying the crest of Artorias and exploring the locked section of Darkroot. The enemies at the start give a surprising amount of souls for how quick they are to kill. I'm questioned by a musk cat, and I think I piss her off by answering truthfully. An ambush by some bigger musk cats kills me, but the area's wolf boss is easy. I can now traverse the abyss, whatever that is. My first guess was that it's metaphorical and the item worked like the hover boots in Ocarina of Time. Let's just say it's good I didn't test that over a really tall cliff.

[Sumez]

You seem amazingly well aware of what's going on for someone supposedly playing the game for the first time. Are you using a lot of online resources?

[JBC]

I swapped my copy of III for The Fire Fades edition a few months back but never got around to playing it until yesterday. I started a new character & decided to go into Ashes Of Ariandel at the earliest chance. Thank goodness you can warp out of there, unlike The Painted World in DS1. I spent the night having alot of fun doing suicide runs through the snow & ended up with some nice armor & equip. Had to push a certain enemy over a cliff in order to progress, Patches style

[guigui]

Mortificator, I'm also curious to know if you use some kind of outer source of infos on the game, or doing it completely blind with just the piece of lore given by the game.

Oh, and the shotel goes around shields, but only with its strong R2 attack.

[Square_Air]

I think their reaction seems pretty genuine based on what they've said (not knowing the sentinels shields are impenetrable, using a general build instead of min-maxing, missing Quelaag, being unaware of the purpose of the Covenant of Artorias ring, etc...). It is pretty strange (yet somewhat refreshing) to not see any statement dedicated to the first 2 archers of Anor Londo though.

It would be nice to know if outside sources are being used or not, not that it truly matters, at least to me. I used a bit of wiki searching on my first run for some info on optional bosses/farming locations, and I'm sure most others did too. DS2 & DS3 I did a ton of looking things up so I could min-max at the very start and use my first character for PVP. The only thing I don't really like about the PVE/PVP integration is the PVE is more of an experience you want to go in blind on, but you really need to look everything up if you want to stand a chance in the PVP meta against people with 1000+ hours that know how to perfectly min-max, dead angle (removed in the remaster though, RIP), counter backstab, toggle escape, perfectly space, and manage the latency.

If it's your first time playing and you get invaded by a twink build with dark bead or w/e in the Undead Parish you're probably just going to flail and get easily OHKO'd instead of assessing the situation and acting accordingly based on previous experience.

[Mortificator]

I'm loath to look at guides for games until I've beaten them. Not to be judgmental of those who do, it just diminishes the experience for me. I'd need to be stumped for more than an hour to hit one up, and would feel kind of pissed at myself afterward. My only resources have been the game, its manual, and the posts others have made in this thread since I've started. I've been playing offline the entire time, so there've been no twinks to twerk on me.

Fighting games are one of the exceptions to the above - how long would it take to get into competitive shape otherwise? - so I understand looking up resources if you're into Dark Souls' PVP aspect.

Anyway, the scenes accompanying the decree to whack beings who'd chosen the path of wickedness (OK) or outlived their usefulness (not OK) showed three doors of brilliant light dissipating, and I know where two of them are. The Tomb of the Giants was my first stop. The new area turned out to be short and much easier than the Tomb was, though notable for its multiple Pinwheels. I put on the ring of the evil eye and killed the adorable, infinitely-respawning baby skellies to top up my HP before traversing the light.

I'd assumed that the enormous sarcophagus where the catacombs boss fight took place was Nito's, but he turned out to be only of modest size. While I took off a lot of his health, I also took a lot of punishment and had to bone out. The rematch went smoothly, now that I knew there were giant skellies and not to agro them, and soon I'd killed a god. A bonfire let me warp away, and a selection was added to let me warp back, although there's nothing down there and no way to backtrack.

Number two on my list was the Duke's Archives, and I was shortly face to face with Seath. I expected to get used to his pattern, bone out, and come back prepared. He was having none of that and filled the room with an attack that broke my guard and took my HP from 100% to 0.

What followed was a surprising, creative sequence: I woke up in a prison cell and couldn't warp out. When I figured out a way to unlock the cell door, there's an ominous scene of serpent men cranking music and running like hell, though the squidheads it incited weren't actually tough. I died to a serpent man dogpile after climbing a ladder. The phonograph wasn't playing anymore when I respawned, but it's nice having an in-game tune for a change, no matter how repetitive, so I went back and cranked it before progressing.

I've noticed friendly fire on attacks like the exploding heads in the catacombs and traps at Sen's Fortress, but the snipers in the archives don't seem to have ally hit detection on their shots. The layout's changed in some way making Seath's original room inaccessible, and I ended up finding a new bonfire I can warp from and stairs leading outside. There were several deaths to enemies and falls as I descended into the crystal cave, with its invisible paths and invincible moonlight butterflies.

When Seath reappeared, I thought of Ultima and immediately broke the crystal next to me. I might have survived if I'd been wearing the cursebite ring, but I wasn't, and on respawn needed to visit some merchants for purging and prism stones. After I returned, I beat on Seath for a bit before realizing he wasn't taking damage; oh, I needed to re-break his gem of immortality. Finally, I succeeded in obtaining the second lord soul.

[Blinge]

I expected to get used to his pattern, bone out, and come back prepared.

Why fear death.

[Bananamatic]

so I understand looking up resources if you're into Dark Souls' PVP aspect.

it's a laggy shitfest that no one takes seriously

[Blinge]

Nor do you have to be really up on the current meta to win fights. I sure ain't, and I win more than I lose..
Then again this is #3 we're talking about. Not sure if I could hang with the hardcore meme players on Ds1

[Square_Air]

I've been playing offline the entire time, so there've been no twinks to twerk on me.

It's unfortunate that you'll be playing without messages, I enjoy them. The games can also be so extremely cryptic that the messages are basically required to find certain areas/items. I'm tempted to tell you how to find The Great Hollow and Ash Lake since you obviously missed them and will most likely never find them yourself. Let me know if you're interested in checking out every area in the game, and I'll tell you where to go (Hint: It's behind 2 illusory walls, and accessible before ringing both bells).

so I understand looking up resources if you're into Dark Souls' PVP aspect.

it's a laggy shitfest

Amen. It is a fun laggy shitfest though, until you get stabbed to death from 30 feet away OFC. Human players are really interesting to interact with and are the main reason I played DS1 beyond a second playthrough and put so much time into SOTFS. In fact, (if you exclude the absolute garbage that is soul memory) I think the PVP is one of the best aspects of SOTFS since it really takes advantage of how slow and deliberate the combat is.

DS1 PVP is far less balanced than 2, and it has issues, but it's some of the most fun I've had with the entire trilogy. My favourite memory is getting completely naked with only the DWGR to ninja flip and getting into a fight with a geared player in Oolacile. They couldn't figure out how to touch me and I just kept pestering them with ~0% backstabs. I eventually started a good backstab chain and managed to BSC them right off the building to their death. As I got them closer to the edge I got so excited, and once I actually knocked them off I laughed so hard I cried a little. Protip: Never roll away from people that are trying to BSC you, that's what they want, and they line up to catch that. If you want out, stand still to abuse those recovery Iframes or roll straight into them.

DWGR + Pursuers & HCSM is a great combo for easily destroying unprepared players since you can hard counter most playstyles. Giant Dads are just free nourishment for you, just watch out for katana & scythe users.

it's a laggy shitfest that no one takes seriously

This is completely wrong, the community is full of people that either think they're a DSPVP god or are at least trying to be. I think the PVP is a little too silly to take it very seriously, but I try to be competent enough to have fun screwing around with it.

Nor do you have to be really up on the current meta to win fights. I sure ain't, and I win more than I lose..

This is what I tell most people who are afraid of the forced PVP in the series. Most players are actually shit or mediocre at PVP, so you have a better chance than you think you do. Skilled players and twinks on the other hand will destroy uneducated players.

Then again this is #3 we're talking about. Not sure if I could hang with the hardcore meme players on Ds1

3 PVP is just R1 spam the game. It's a bit of a step back from 2 mechanically IMO even though it feels much smoother and faster. The ganks are also way too numerous, so being an invader is pretty rough. DS1 PVP is all memes, all the time, and 60% of it is backstab variations and counter backstabbing. Learning to counter backstab is a necessity in DS1 PVP.

While backstabbing is pretty ridiculous is DS1, at least you can consistently punish the Sunny D chuggers unlike DS3 where the PVP always drags on forever.

[Sumez]

Nobody knows what all those abbreviations mean

[Immryr]

i do.

dark wood grain ring. heavy crystal soul mass. uhhh player vs player

[Blinge]

3 PVP is just R1 spam the game. It's a bit of a step back from 2 mechanically IMO even though it feels much smoother and faster. The ganks are also way too numerous, so being an invader is pretty rough....

While backstabbing is pretty ridiculous is DS1, at least you can consistently punish the Sunny D chuggers unlike DS3 where the PVP always drags on forever.

Oh really? ive found R1 spam combos only seem to get two hits before my opponent can roll out, or I can roll out of theirs.
Then again, I've never used a light/fast weapon in PvP.
Hoo boy have I been ganked though, when trying to get my Vertebra Shackles.. Irithyll gank city.

Haha yeah. You'd think it'd be easy to hunt someone down and stop them chugging but nope, i find people very hard to catch. It's not even viable to try to get behind and backstab punish either .

[Mortificator]

I rode the elevator down from Firelink to New Londo and was shortly attacked by a human I didn't get a good look at before dispatching. Ingward helpfully explained to me what the Abyss is and gave a key so I could drain the lower city, also solving the mystery of the huge gates at the valley of drakes. The darkwraiths were weak relative to encounters from Seath's areas, but I died four times to Four Kings before deciding to eschew an elegant solution, just put on heavier armor than my elite knight getup and tank it.

The demon ruins past Quelaag seemed a reasonable place to search for her mother. It turned out there was major path around the lava I missed the first time I was here. The fight against the Ceaseless Discharge seems easy at first, but it has a double-smack attack it pulls out when its HP is low that's enough to fully deplete mine. On the second trip down through Blighttown and the swamp, I notice a woman sitting under a column. Quelana sells pyromancy, and though it's probably not the best investment at this point, I'm too curious about what her magic looks like not to buy it. On the third trip back following death, I notice there's a bonfire right at the start of the ruins that I've been walking past obliviously all along. I turn the brightness down a notch or two in most games I play, but I turned Dark Souls' up back in the asylum and have still had trouble making out details in darkness when there are bright areas onscreen at the same time.

Beating the discharge drains the lava, revealing taurus and capra demons. How were the tauruses OK under there when they're vulnerable to fire? Sometimes I provoke one with an arrow to make sure I don't have deal with a couple simultaneously. The second boss in the ruins is just a palette swap of the asylum demon with a butt-pound attack. Before the third, there's a sign that lets me bring Solaire into the fight. Despite me being a little worried he wouldn't survive, he pulled through with a small amount of HP, though he seemed depressed afterward.

The next area was an audio-visual nightmare. The dinosaur-esque enemies only take four swings from the giant's halberd to kill, but I can barely see them in the dim above lava so bright it's almost painful to look at. While the charred ring protects my character from damage, my ears are subjected to the sound of a car engine failing to turn over. It's a relief when the dinos are dead, and a short jaunt through the city brings me to a white light door, but I don't go through yet.

None of the bonfires down here are warp-to-able (and I have to go back to the previous bonfire to check the current one). It occurs to me that I can warp out using the bonfire system, then bone back as long as don't rest anywhere else. None of the blacksmiths can work with the two embers I've found. When I upgrade my zweihander to +10, I realize I'd made some misassumptions about the smithing system.

Since weapons are ascended to raw or divine from +5 standard, I thought that the reason I saw no options to ascend to lightning and such was because I lacked whatever material it consumed. It's actually because those ascensions need a +10 standard weapon. I also thought that the special souls I've been holding onto starting with the moonlight butterfly's would just get turned into weapons when I found the right blacksmith or ember, but those souls are only materials to ascend +10 weapons into uniques. There's a selection to turn my zwei into a unique greatsword using Sif's soul, though I won't because the intelligence requirements mean it wouldn't be usable by my character anymore. And to turn it into another unique greatsword using GWYN'S soul.

My guess at this point's that I'll fight the Witch in Lost Izalith, pour in the Lordsouls, get betrayed, go through a final dungeon and fight Gwyn for the finale.

Why fear death.

If I can anticipate it, I might as well retreat, cash out the souls I'm carrying, and come back with another level or some equipment upgrades.

The games can also be so extremely cryptic that the messages are basically required to find certain areas/items. I'm tempted to tell you how to find The Great Hollow and Ash Lake since you obviously missed them and will most likely never find them yourself. Let me know if you're interested in checking out every area in the game, and I'll tell you where to go (Hint: It's behind 2 illusory walls, and accessible before ringing both bells).

Intriguing! As for more specific info, I'll open the floodgates once I've beat the final boss. If Dark Souls has some kind of newb trap, though, I wouldn't mind tips on avoiding it. Like, how in Dead Rising you'd be locked out of the conclusive chapter and true last boss if you didn't perform an obscure action near the end, and the singular save slot meant you'd need to replay the entire game to get another chance.

[Immryr]

It's worth finding out how to access the dlc before beating the last boss. It's not something that you'd ever figure out on your own really.

[iconoclast]

Looks like Sekiro is going to have more depth to the mechanics and to me, will be far more interesting thematically. All Souls games BTFO.

[Sumez]

Wow I must have been doing something massively wrong in my DS1 build if you can just "tank" the four kings...

[Immryr]

Wow I must have been doing something massively wrong in my DS1 build if you can just "tank" the four kings...

yeah if you just put on either havel's armour or the stone set and stand right on top of them you can just r1 spam.


sekiro does look to be continuing the trajectory of bloodborne and moving further to more actiony combat. i'm looking forward to it. i think from generally does best with new ips. i'm not expecting a return to more exploration based gameplay like the first half of ds1, which is unfortunate, but i'm sure it will be good.

[KAI]

oh, rip tenchu

[JBC]

Sekiro looks great. I'm interested to see what a hookshot brings to the mechanics of a Souls-like. I loved Nioh but now we'll get to see the master's take on an eastern setting within the Souls framework.

[ryu]

>Activision

rip videogames

[iconoclast]

Worth noting that From is calling Sekiro an Action/Adventure game, when all of the previous Souls games (+BB) were Action-RPGs. I guess this means the RPG elements will be scaled down. And there's no multiplayer.

[rapoon]

looks fantastic, and any game with a grappling hook piques my interest.

it's being overshadowed by the Sekiro trailer, but it appears that Devolver will be re-publishing 'Metal Wolf Chaos' for the rest of the world.

And there's no multiplayer.

if this is the case, then good.

[Blinge]

Looks like Sekiro is going to have more depth to the mechanics and to me, will be far more interesting thematically. All Souls games BTFO.

i will fight u

[Austin]

Wow I must have been doing something massively wrong in my DS1 build if you can just "tank" the four kings...

On my first couple of playthroughs I never would have guessed you could do this either. I would get whacked in just a couple of hits. However, on recent runs I now see that if you build your character properly, you can just sit there and wail away on the boss. I have a tendency of waiting until near the end of the run to fight the Four Kings as well, so that helps.

[Bananamatic]

i thought from was done with souls or does that mean no more souls but more souls clones
fuck souls, where's armored core

[Square_Air]

Intriguing! As for more specific info, I'll open the floodgates once I've beat the final boss. If Dark Souls has some kind of newb trap, though, I wouldn't mind tips on avoiding it. Like, how in Dead Rising you'd be locked out of the conclusive chapter and true last boss if you didn't perform an obscure action near the end, and the singular save slot meant you'd need to replay the entire game to get another chance.

I will tell you one thing that is unique to Dark Souls 1 that was changed in all subsequent games. When you defeat the final boss, you are instantly taken to New Game + where you keep your Soul Level, gear, and souls, but lose everything else (fast travel, shortcuts, Frampt, etc...). If you wanted to access the other areas you would have to play up to that point again (enemies/bosses get boosts to their HP, damage, stamina, and soul drops). Dark Souls 2 & 3 allow you to go to NG+ whenever you feel like it at the main bonfire, but DS1 unfortunately isn't so kind.

The areas you are going to potentially miss are the return to the Asylum, The Great Hollow/Ash Lake, The Painted World Of Ariamis, and most importantly the entire Artorias Of The Abyss DLC. While the first 3 are interesting (especially GH/AL & The Painted World) and potentially have items you would want, it would be a shame to miss the DLC. The DLC was designed like post game content, so it's unfortunate you can't fight the final boss before heading there.

Nobody knows what all those abbreviations mean

Okie Dokie, I gotchu.

Spoiler

SOTFS = Dark Souls 2: Scholar Of The First Sin
PVP = Player Vs Player
BSC = Backstab Chain
DWGR = Dark Wood Grain Ring (AKA: Ninja Flip Ring)
HCSM = Homing Crystal Soul Mass

Oh really? ive found R1 spam combos only seem to get two hits before my opponent can roll out, or I can roll out of theirs.
Then again, I've never used a light/fast weapon in PvP.
Hoo boy have I been ganked though, when trying to get my Vertebra Shackles.. Irithyll gank city.

I guess saying it's 'R1 Spam The Game' is disingenuous like saying DS1PVP was 'Backstabs: The Game' since there's still more to the combat, but there is a bit of truth in it. While I think the poise system from 1&2 needed more work, I don't think nearly removing poise entirely was a good idea for PVP. In DS3 running up to an opponent and spamming R1 is way more viable than it is in the previous games since the opponent gets staggered by any hit in the game unless they use an ultra class weapon with hyper armor. Sure you can only usually get in a few hits, but there are certain weapons with true combos (usually R1 spam that chains into weapon arts) where you are basically guaranteed to pull off tons of hits and have the enemy helplessly staggered with no toggle escapes to save them. In DS1&2 you were encouraged to be a bit more tactical since enemies could use their poise to effectively punish with backstabs, parries, a faster/heavier weapon that could allow them to trade damage/break your poise at a faster rate, etc. In DS3 using backstabs to punish is very situational since just spamming R1 can stop a majority of attempts. Parries have always been risky but are now even more risky since a single botched parry can leave you staggered and open for a combo. While ultra weapons get hyper armor, that leaves an option off the table for faster/lighter weapons.

On the plus side, at least there's no "infinite combos" like Dark souls 1 where people would aggressively use poise by equipping heavy armor and some form of falchion. It's a pretty dumb strategy where you poise through anything with your armor and then two hand your falchion and spam R1, and unless the person knows how to space or toggle escape and you catch them with enough stamina, they're dead. I like the fluid motions of DS3 combat, but not necessarily more than the slow and decisive movement of the earlier games. There's definitely still nuance to the combat (weapon arts are a welcome addition), but when the simplest combat option becomes too versatile it's not really the healthiest thing for the meta.

I think all 3 games bring something interesting to the table for PVP, but they all bring something stupid along with it. Dark Souls 1 was all memes and was its best and worst feature. DS2 was probably the best PVP since while being slow and deliberate, the combat still didn't drag on as long as some DS3 fights, but this was all destroyed by the awful soul memory system that punished new players by effectively matching them with higher level invasions every time they died and killing meta level invasions since after enough fights you'll only get matched with SL 800+ agile Havel mages with 99 in all stats and all build variety is destroyed. DS3 brings a interesting new faster pace to the fights, a wide array of cool weapon arts, and many of the flaws from the previous games have been ironed out,but it sacrifices poise (for better and worse) which makes R1 spamming more powerful than ever, and invasion priority means you're probably going to lose most of your invasions trying to fruitlessly take down 3 people. There's certain twin sword builds out there that are specifically designed to fight multiple people at once and have become a favourite of invaders.

I would probably rank the PVP something like like DS2>DS1>DS3, but DS1&3 come really close and I think my bias for DS1 is kicking in here by putting it ahead. While I love DS2 PVP mechanically, I hate soul memory so much that sometimes I'll end up ranking the PVP between them as all equal. You basically pick your poison and learn to love it.

So I guess this is now a Sekiro Thread.

Looks like Sekiro is going to have more depth to the mechanics and to me, will be far more interesting thematically. All Souls games BTFO.

Your Ninja Gaiden bias is spilling out all over the floor. It's pretty early to say the mechanics are deeper based on two swords clashing and a grappling hook latching onto a tree and a dude. Saying "[Sekiro] will be far more interesting thematically" is pretty hilarious though, what thematically seems more interesting about 2 minutes of bionic samurai commando than the entirety of the Souls lore/themes? The change of scenery and combat is welcome though, Dark Souls needs to take a long ass nap.

[Immryr]

holy shit i missed that metal wolf chaos announcement. awesome! can't wait to play it.