Star Wars Episode VII: Cast Unveiled...slated for 12/18/2015

[Hagane]

Yeah, something like hurricane Attila or Genghis Khan would be more apt.

[WelshMegalodon]

I'm sure there are examples of characters that use lightsaber-type weapons and aren't force users outside the films, but I can't think of any offhand.

Spoiler

Regarding the shields, I think it has to do with the type of ship they are. X-Wings are smaller ships and thus have less capable hyperdrives. Of course this is all speculation...

Spoiler

Lightspeed travel through shields just doesn't happen in the Star Wars universe, regardless of how capable a ship's hyperdrive is. I've never seen it done, even in Expanded Universe works, though I suppose those don't count anymore since they aren't canon.

[antron]

Han uses Luke's saber to slice open that tauntaun in ESB.

[Lord Satori]

That's General Grievous, who first debuted in episode III despite the fact that the clone wars cartoon takes place beforehand, which is why I didn't mention him.

Spoiler

Lightspeed travel through shields just doesn't happen in the Star Wars universe, regardless of how capable a ship's hyperdrive is. I've never seen it done, even in Expanded Universe works, though I suppose those don't count anymore since they aren't canon.

Well it does now. So I guess you're wrong about that. Saying something "just doesn't happen" is hardly an excuse at all.

I think someone said a page or two back that it's a matter of accuracy. Lightspeed travel to various planets has to be very precise to prevent warping inside the surface. Han Solo is such a skilled pilot that he manages to warp inside the shield, but outside the planet.

Regarding the actual shields, they are not infallible. Any object going at a fast enough speed can break through anything, including the shields. Their primary purpose is to prevent ships (and projectiles) that warp in from the outside from staging a planned attack. If there was a shield capable of blocking lightspeed, particles of light would probably end up being blocked as well.

[trap15]

Just saw it, unpolished thoughts below:

Spoiler

I was really really irritated by how much was cloned from Episode IV. It's basically a remake, the entire plot structure is the same, many many scenes are the same, etc.

Snoke is about the most retarded bad-guy name anyone could've thought of.

Rey/Rei/Ray/whatever had character for... the time they were on the desert planet. She seemed like a empty slate pretty much the entire rest of the movie. Serious lost opportunity.

Fin was well-characterized, and played his part very well, one of the stronger characters in the movie.

Han Solo worked out well; I don't really have much negative to say about that.

Kylo Ren was neat too, also well-characterized. The scene with him killing Han was really dang good I think. Also I liked his helmet, continuing the obvious Japanese warrior styled thing from Vader (Vader = Samurai, Ren = Ninja).

The huge death planet thing was a neat idea, but it really hardly got used. Seeing as the Death Star was small and the surface was inhospitable I understood why nothing occurred on it, but the death planet actually had environment and stuff so why did barely anything ever happen on the surface? We barely saw any of it either.

I'll definitely see the next one, as I imagine it'll be more interesting than this one. They were probably just trying to prove "yes guys we really aren't going to make something as bad as the prequels again".

[BPzeBanshee]

Watched it today. Agree with most sentiments but overall glad it's not as bad as the prequels.

[Strikers1945guy]

Spoiler

another thought. How the hell does R2D2 get depression? He's a god damn machine.

[Phellan Wolf]

Spoiler

another thought. How the hell does R2D2 get depression? He's a god damn machine.

Spoiler

He doesn't have any depression. As far as C3PO says, he just entered into sleepy mode. However if you remember the scene where you can see the droid hand of Luck touching R2's head, I pressume that in fact Luke force the droir to enter into sleep so no one could follow his steps and find him.

[emphatic]

I'll definitely see the next one, as I imagine it'll be more interesting than this one. They were probably just trying to prove "yes guys we really aren't going to make something as bad as the prequels again".

+1. As the credits started rolling, I was like "damn, it's gonna be a long wait 'til the next one".

[Strikers1945guy]

Spoiler

another thought. How the hell does R2D2 get depression? He's a god damn machine.

Spoiler

He doesn't have any depression. As far as C3PO says, he just entered into sleepy mode. However if you remember the scene where you can see the droid hand of Luck touching R2's head, I pressume that in fact Luke force the droir to enter into sleep so no one could follow his steps and find him.

Spoiler

I suppose. Why not just erase the map instead of risk it though? And if anyone wanted to know where Luke actually was wouldn't everyone just try and kidnap the sleepy R2D2 unit and analyze his data? He was the biggest clue if no one had any idea to begin with.

Its like if your friend just disappeared and went missing

"Hey dudebro is missing anyone know where he is?"
"No but look he left his phone and computer here conveniently"
"Should we check those to see if it gives us any clues?"
"No, no, lets just wander the galaxy endlessly searching"
"K"

[WelshMegalodon]

That's General Grievous, who first debuted in episode III despite the fact that the clone wars cartoon takes place beforehand, which is why I didn't mention him.

I felt he was worth bringing up since he actually made his first animated debut in the 2003 Clone Wars cartoon, and his print debut in a random older Clone Wars comic I cannot recall at the moment.

Spoiler

Lightspeed travel through shields just doesn't happen in the Star Wars universe, regardless of how capable a ship's hyperdrive is. I've never seen it done, even in Expanded Universe works, though I suppose those don't count anymore since they aren't canon.

Well it does now. So I guess you're wrong about that. Saying something "just doesn't happen" is hardly an excuse at all.

I don't really see a reason for the sudden 'one-up' tone, but in any case, I suppose what I was referring to was an unwritten rule of sorts. Something like how Dr. Doom and the Mole Man were never truly killed off in Lee and Kirby's Fantastic Four. In any case, I was never a fan of contrived fanon explanations for things*, so I suppose I should just accept it as being possible now. Though it was definitely odd.

*Especially not when they involve retarded high school kids trying to apply their misconstrued notions of real physics to sci-fi physics, or when they assume sci-fi physics is consistent in completely arbitrary ways, or when they throw Occam's Razor out the window in favor of overly specific 'what-if' conditions (see the Headscratchers section of any TVTropes page). There's far too much of that going on whenever issues like these come up.

[Phellan Wolf]

Spoiler

another thought. How the hell does R2D2 get depression? He's a god damn machine.

Spoiler

He doesn't have any depression. As far as C3PO says, he just entered into sleepy mode. However if you remember the scene where you can see the droid hand of Luck touching R2's head, I pressume that in fact Luke force the droir to enter into sleep so no one could follow his steps and find him.

Spoiler

I suppose. Why not just erase the map instead of risk it though? And if anyone wanted to know where Luke actually was wouldn't everyone just try and kidnap the sleepy R2D2 unit and analyze his data? He was the biggest clue if no one had any idea to begin with.

Its like if your friend just disappeared and went missing

"Hey dudebro is missing anyone know where he is?"
"No but look he left his phone and computer here conveniently"
"Should we check those to see if it gives us any clues?"
"No, no, lets just wander the galaxy endlessly searching"
"K"

Spoiler

the most hilarious about that is with all the technology they have got, they're unable to hack a droid's computer
But far worse is the fact when they just stick together the pieces of the map when R2 awakens, haven't they got a complete map of the galaxy to see if the map that's keeping BB8 really matches with any planets??
Some times plots are ridiculous.

And by the way, does someone knows how Abrams wanted to start the film???

Spoiler

As if the film wasn't enough ripped of from EIV, Abrams wanted to start the fiim with a small transport shipped being pursued by a big one. Anyone remember that before??

[Strider77]

Can't we stop using the spoiler thing at this point. Honestly you have no business coming in here or complaining if you haven't seen it by now.

[PROMETHEUS]

so they just unveiled they're gonna be making like 1 movie a year with some side stories, what you guys think? xD I think it's likely going to be ridiculous, bulbousbeard said disney is "going to grind this property into the ground" earlier seems he was right

[Lord Satori]

It'll probably take longer to get to people the way Marvel stuff has. It seems Lucas was right, though.

[NTSC-J]

It's gonna be great.

[null1024]

It'll probably take longer to get to people the way Marvel stuff has. It seems Lucas was right, though.

Marvel's stuff has had the issue of inconsistent quality [nothing like having Winter Soldier next to The Dark World and Age of Ultron, blah], but I guess that's highly likely for the new series of Star Wars films as well.
That being said, I'm vaguely interested in Rogue One.

But really, there's no way we didn't expect this. Disney wouldn't have spent that kind of money to just let the brand sit there.

[Mischief Maker]

I read a handful of Star Wars novels as a kid and I gotta say, some stories just don't have enough meat on their bones for additional servings.

God, what if "Serenity" had just been the first part of an ongoing Firefly series? Now THAT was a Star Wars-y franchise with plenty of meat left on the bone!

[PROMETHEUS]

One a year, that's pretty much a guarantee of low creativity money milking. It is a little sad, but whatever, Disney shows its true face while Star Wars still lives in its best episodes and some of the nice games (have awesome memories of Jedi Knight, the FPS!). I will avoid paying any money to see those new films.

[Lord Satori]

I will avoid paying any money to see those new films.

I wouldn't go THAT far. It's not like the quality is gonna tank right away.

[Skykid]

you don't need to use spoiler tags anymore in here. I haven't looked into this thread until now and I saw the movie yesterday. I'm assuming I'm the last person here to see it of course (probably).

[Skykid]

Right let's do this shit, with spoilers but without spoiler tags. Firstly, best Star Wars FA review on the internet right here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX6V4Oz9COo

Now. I enjoyed it, primarily because it was Star Wars. I'm completely happy with the fact that Abrams delivered exactly what Star Wars fans wanted in terms of content, while at the same time delivering too much of what we wanted - but more on that later.

It should be completely obvious to anyone that the first half of FA is much more engaging and enjoyable than the second half. This is down to a number of reasons, but the one that just about no-one seems to have mentioned is that the film's primary problem is pacing. The first half is pacy but in terms of content it's spaced out. That's because there's a certain amount of time required to actually establish characters and setting. Therefore the first half is the introduction of Finn, Rey, Kylo Ren and their various motivations and circumstances. Rey being a lone scavenger trying to get a meal, Finn being on the run from the First Order, Ren being a Vader enthusiast trying to snuff out the last remaining Jedi.

All of that is well handled. No beef with any of the developments: the introduction of the Falcon, the getaways, and our protagonists getting swept up in a fight bigger than both of them is all fine and the action sequences are great.

Credit to Abrams in that he didn't just identify what made Star Wars from a concept level, he also understood it from a practical film editing level. It's certainly faster and punchier than the OT, but his scene construction, editing, music implementation etc. are all right out of the Spielberg playbook and handled completely efficiently. Seeing as Lucas and Spielberg were both auteurs who grew from the same pond, there's no problem using that particular style to form FA. In-fact, it's the only one he should be using.

Han Solo is the best thing in the movie, because he reaffirms the nostalgia that surrounds his character by actually delivering Han Solo. I'd say he was even more Han here than he was in Jedi, where his commitment was at half mast.

Now let's get down to business. All those fanboy dicks crowing on that this is the "perfect" movie are totally blinded by the lights. It isn't perfect. I woke up the next morning forgetting I'd even seen it, which puts it in the same camp as too many of the current movie crop, whereas I can recall moments and lines from the OT like they were programmed into me from birth. And here's why: it's full of glaring errors.

Let's establish before going on that Lawrence Kasdan wasn't the screenwriter for Empire or Jedi - he was a co-writer. The first draft of Empire, the one that created and established Yoda's character and the general feel for the entire movie was created by Leigh Brackett, a bona fide science fiction author of novels and short stories who was best friends with Ray Bradbury. She is the one who was responsible for making Empire what it was before Kasdan's edit.

Kasdan, in the case of FA, has totally fucked up his responsibilities.

It's difficult to know where to start, but let's go with giving us too much Star Wars. And by that I mean basically copying A New Hope and Empire's plot developments almost beat for beat. Vader, Luke, R2-D2, Father/Son betrayal, death of a primary character, Death Star assault and destruction are all here, albeit with different faces and names. On top of that there are new characters in the mix with new motivations to try to pretend that it's an original work, whereas in reality it's like a hardcore fanfic reiteration.

Where the first half is paced just about right, the second starts to fall to pieces under the weight of constant layering of plot events and character developments. It's so bloated Abrams has to cut like there's no tomorrow to include absolutely everything that needs to occur before the end of the movie, and he totally loses the audience engagement in the process. Empire, as an example, has a shorter run time than FA but it feels 10 times richer, and that's because the correct amount of time is spent on each of its various threads, all of which meet in the finale. FA on the other hand is going at such speed it almost can't catch up to itself.

The breakdown: Han Solo's here! Awesome! Kylo Ren is his son, what?! Holy shit! Wait what, Rey just did a Jedi mind trick? Hold on, there's a death star? They just blew up the republic?!! The republic?!!! Hey that ace pilot is still alive, he's back! They found the plans in R2-D2? Why didn't they check him before? There's a weakness in the Death Star? Tie squadron is going in! Finn is going after Rey, he's changed his mind about running away! Han Solo reunites with Leia... Han goes to disable the shields... Han Solo is... DEAD?? What?! Hold on, Finn is taking on Kylo Ren in a lightsaber duel, wtf? What, Rey BEAT Ren in a lightsaber duel, how the fuck is that possible? The Death Star has been blown up! Leia doesn't give a fuck about Chewbacca, why? Luke is on a Scottish island? It's over?! Holy shit, I need to take a minute to figure out what just happened.

Anyone who has any understanding of film should know that FA is stifled under its weight of content. And while all this is going on they're ramming fan service down your throat like there's no tomorrow.

Some of this is passable however, it's just a new direction for the story, even if it's a bit crooked as a standalone movie. But other areas are so full of absolute scriptwriting buffoonery it's beyond comprehension. To skim a little:

- Poe talks to Kylo Ren after he's just been captured in the opening scene in the most nonsensical dickish way it instantly breaks the tension.
- Finn is meant to be an emotionally torn stormtrooper who goes from being distraught to whooping and cheering each time he murders one of his own friends during his escape. Later he's hacking them down with a lightsaber like he's relishing the smell of seared flesh.
- The 'Resistance' wouldn't be called that. It's absolutely retarded. In Jedi it's the Empire that were defeated and swept underground. That would make Kylo Ren's boys 'the resistance', and the Tie squaddies the peacekeeping police!
- Finn explaining Stormtrooper helmets can stop smoke inhalation BUT NOT TOXINS is the dumbest fucking thing I've ever heard in a movie and an example of the laziest scripting known to man, just because they needed to set up a poison plan that wasn't even required!
- Rey's abilities with the force are completely absurd. Luke trains three fucking movies to become a Jedi and gets his ass whipped by Vader TWICE and fried by the emperor on arrival. She does a goddamn mind trick with no prior knowledge of such a skill and then beats Kylo Ren in a lightsaber fight without ever having held the instrument in her life. That is almost as ruining to the notion of the Force as midichlorians because it completely undermines the discipline required.
- The locations were shit. It was nearly all fucking mountains and forest in Wales or somewhere. What happened to the ice world's of Hoth or swamps of Dagobah - where's the imagination?
- Killing Han Solo is the single most awful possible thing they could have done, ever. Total shit. He was the best nostalgic element in the movie and he didn't have an opportunity to share a single scene with Luke fucking Skywalker?!! That's the most ridiculous of missteps imaginable.
- Kylo Ren looked like a total loser when he took his mask off. About as formidable as someone who sells oranges in the local market.
- Snoke was a basically a big Golem.



And many more.

As was spoke in the youtube review linked above: "It was a well directed bad script".

Absolutely, one-hundred percent accurate.

Otherwise I kind of enjoyed it and I'll probably watch it again.

[NTSC-J]

It really bothered me that Chewie just walked past Leia when they got back from the mission. Shouldn't he have given her a big hug or got down on his knees like he failed her or something?

It seems like the general consensus is that it was pretty good but not great, and the eternal debate (at least until the next one) is going to be between this and Return of the Jedi. I personally give Jedi the edge just because I've seen it a million times and have more affection for it, but TFA is probably the better movie overall.

[Skykid]

Jedi is better. There are more redeeming qualities overall and its general construction is better formed. It's not half up and half down.

[Mischief Maker]

ROTJ I put into the same category as The Godfather III. They are much weaker movies than the ones that precede because they are frankenstein's monsters cobbled together from pieces of a good movie and pieces of a poor movie, and the seams are glaringly obvious (the surface of Endor and Sofia Coppola's incestuous love story).

Nevertheless, both movies succeed overall because they tie up the overall arc of their trilogy as it should have ended. Outside that context they'd be far worse on their own.

[Skykid]

I think Godfather III is trash, much worse than Jedi, but that's another story.

The thing about Jedi is that while obviously the weakest entry, it's not by a glaring margin, you can just call it deficient in certain areas. What's worth noting about Jedi is what it does well. Jabba's palace is an utterly fantastic opener, the speederbike chase is kind of wonderful, the space battle is out of this world visually - probably the best use of practical effects ever - and the entire meeting between Vader, Luke and the Emperor is very nicely handled primarily because of Ian McDiarmid's superb performance as the Sith Lord. The rest is admittedly not worth much, bar maybe the explosion on Endor when that shield goes up like its been nuked from orbit. That's one hell of an incendiary effect.

But still, that sum is more memorable than almost everything in FA. And that's FA's problem. It doesn't do much except very very good fanservice, and in the process sadly fucks up loads of stuff as well as creating issues that actually hurt the mythology.

[Squire Grooktook]

I like Skykid's movie posts about as much as I do BIL's gaming posts.

[dan76]

Yes, it's a fan movie. That's the era we are in now. I agree about the pacing, particularly in the second half. I think that's why everyone was a bit numb coming out of the cinema, it's way too quick. The destruction of the Starkiller base is meaningless after we've just seen Han Solo die. It would be meaningless anyhow. Too much story.

It's not often I want a film to be longer, but with this I really think an extra 10 minutes would help. Cutting out Maz Kanata and her castle would also help as that's where it sags for the first time.

I've read about a few deleted scenes which sound interesting. For instance, Leia was supposed to come into the film much earlier, sending someone off to Coruscant to warn them about the First Order. This was dropped to a later reveal when she meets Han. A longer Bluray cut might be good but JJ isn't a fan of them.

[Blinge]

- Rey's abilities with the force are completely absurd. Luke trains three fucking movies to become a Jedi and gets his ass whipped by Vader TWICE and fried by the emperor on arrival. She does a goddamn mind trick with no prior knowledge of such a skill and then beats Kylo Ren in a lightsaber fight without ever having held the instrument in her life. That is almost as ruining to the notion of the Force as midichlorians because it completely undermines the discipline required.

Jedi mind trick was probably the worst thing about the film tbh. I actually said "come the fuck on" aloud in the cinema.
As for Rey winning the duel, well.. you can kinda explain that one away by saying Ren's actually rubbish, unstable, bit messed up after killing daddikins, tired from the previous fight and still injured. Also he tries to seduce her to the dark side and get that ass or w/e

he didn't have an opportunity to share a single scene with Luke fucking Skywalker?!! That's the most ridiculous of missteps imaginable

Ah shit man yeah. Hey maybe he'll be in the next film in flashbacks lololol

- Kylo Ren looked like a total loser when he took his mask off.

Is he supposed to be a bit of a loser? Seems like that's what they're going for.

Otherwise I kind of enjoyed it and I'll probably watch it again.

Haha, i think more scathing reviews should add this little truth in at the end. The amount of cheesy things that happened in the movie made my eyes roll but then I remembered; it's fucking star wars. It's always been cheesy.
I think.. I've only seen the original trilogy once, a few years ago. So I'm not coming at this from the same angle as everyone else for sure.
Well directed bad script is spot on.

Oh and, what's with Rey and Leia hugging it out like that, they've never met.
Also, Y voldemort & snape in dis film??!?1

[TransatlanticFoe]

Rey beating Ren can be explained by the shot he took to the stomach (Chewie's bowcaster was fucking some serious shit up elsewhere so I'm guessing it wasn't just a flesh wound) but Finn being able to handle a lightsaber and hold his own was too far.

On the First Order and Resistance, this was an aspect very poorly introduced. I think the idea is that the Republic is a small government of systems and the First Order is a competing regime born from Imperial remnants. The Resistance is not the Republic military but a rebel force within First Order held territory. That's what I took it as, but it wasn't really covered and the "destruction" of the Republic was confusing - I think it was just where the senate was based but no-one seemed to really care about it (even less so than Alderaan in Episode IV), so what were we supposed to think?