Earthquake has hit Japan

[Blackbird]

ふくしま負けない

"Fukushima is not defeated"? Man, my Japanese sucks...

Edit: Wall of shame is amusing.

Comparison of copter pilots in Fukushima to Chernobyl pilots: reasonable.
Comparison of copter pilots in Fukushima to kamikaze pilots: so much shame. I don't have enough faces to palm.

[Observer]

ふくしま負けない

"Fukushima is not defeated"? Man, my Japanese sucks...

Fukushima Makenai. It means, Fukushima never give up or something similar so, yeah. As our japanese professor says "nihongo not literal, always get idea" (his spangrish is priceless!).

We really need some mawlnin' lescue to calm the journalists lust for blood.

[cul]

http://jpquake.wikispaces.com/Journalist+Wall+of+Shame

Finally, someone made this.

[GaijinPunch]

Can't do that man, it's televised.

It's most likely wrong, too.

Oh no, another gaijin is wussing out!

Probably has nothing to do with letting his family rest better, or (most likely) having absolutely fuck all to do in Tokyo at the moment. I left partially out of boredom. Many companies are forcing their employees to bolt as well.

[Randorama]

Apparently the Italian Embassy took readings on the top of their building in Tokyo. Results were levels were 1/3 that of those found in Rome.

Yes, but it is still the same lobby, Embassy personnel usually acts as the government puppets in some other country.

I need to say that, more in general, weaseling the situation in Japan for one's own political (nuclear) agenda makes me feel deeply embarassed.

I have nothing to share with this kind of organizations (both sides, but one side more than the other), but how one can fall so low is astounding. Then again, we agreed that governments/organizations tend to be fuckwads, somewhere else.

[dcharlie]

The thing is, is everyone in Tokyo is only suffering from the equivalent of a chest x-ray per day (or so we're told)

it's less than that - let me find the site that has geiger reading from within TK. There was one spike to 87 CPM for about 1 hour, but since then it's been slightly elevated at around 19 CPM.

Before the nuclear incident it was 15 CPM - the global average is 27 CPM! so even with the slight elevation to 19 CPM Tokyoites are getting less radiation than in most places. Hence why the news stories like readings in Rome being higher than in TK. It was true before and after the accident - the issue is that there's a panic now when there really isn't much need for it - it's distracting from what's going on in the north

Also - I lived close to a huge nuclear installation until i was 18 (Sellafield for those that are familar (was Windscale)) - i was almost certainly getting a higher CPM count back then.

EDIT : here is the link - http://park30.wakwak.com/~weather/geiger_index.html

i've been looking at this for the last X days - i must admit i was somewhat alarmed when i saw the spike. Then i talked to my father who has close to 40 years experience in the nuclear industry and i felt a hell of a lot better. A little education goes a long way

[austere]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... risis.html

Emphasis mine:

‘There is a growing body of evidence that radiation in excess of what the government says are the minimum amounts we should be exposed to are actually good for you and reduce cases of cancer,’ she told Fox News TV host Bill O’Reilly.

No further comment.

[Skyknight]

Must be a particular sort of particle...

[ED-057]

The thing is, is everyone in Tokyo is only suffering from the equivalent of a chest x-ray per day (or so we're told) but that shit sticks. Once you got a dose of rado in you, it never leaves.

Where did you hear that? Radiation isn't "sticky". That's why we can sterilize food, medical instruments, etc. with radiation.

Well the thing is, once you`ve been exposed to it, the damage is done. Since we`re talking about subatomic particles, we have to go by probabilities. A small dose probably won`t have any noticable effect, so you can consider it "safe." But when a large number of people are exposed, that might mean that an unlucky few are screwed and don`t know it yet.

[Ex-Cyber]

The thing is, is everyone in Tokyo is only suffering from the equivalent of a chest x-ray per day (or so we're told) but that shit sticks. Once you got a dose of rado in you, it never leaves.

Where did you hear that? Radiation isn't "sticky". That's why we can sterilize food, medical instruments, etc. with radiation.

Well the thing is, once you`ve been exposed to it, the damage is done. Since we`re talking about subatomic particles, we have to go by probabilities. A small dose probably won`t have any noticable effect, so you can consider it "safe." But when a large number of people are exposed, that might mean that an unlucky few are screwed and don`t know it yet.

Sure, but that doesn't mean the radiation "sticks" or "never leaves". If you end up with cancer due to radiation exposure, it's the cancer that sticks; the radiation is long gone.

[neorichieb1971]

According to my work colleague radiation levels cause disruptions to remote piloting helicopters. If a robot was used it would have to be hardwired (according to him).

[cul]

According to my work colleague radiation levels cause disruptions to remote piloting helicopters. If a robot was used it would have to be hardwired (according to him).

From what I recall, robots were used in Chernobyl but all of them stopped working because of radiation.

But it was 25 years ago, I've heard french company Areva is sending robots supposed to sustain high radiations today.

[Skykid]

Well the thing is, once you`ve been exposed to it, the damage is done. Since we`re talking about subatomic particles, we have to go by probabilities. A small dose probably won`t have any noticable effect, so you can consider it "safe." But when a large number of people are exposed, that might mean that an unlucky few are screwed and don`t know it yet.

Sure, but that doesn't mean the radiation "sticks" or "never leaves". If you end up with cancer due to radiation exposure, it's the cancer that sticks; the radiation is long gone.

Sorry, it was badly worded (too many beers last night.) Thanks for the clarification ED-057, that's what I was getting at.

[greg]

Radiation isn't "sticky". That's why we can sterilize food, medical instruments, etc. with radiation.

You're right. I'm sure austere can speak more on this, but it's the contaminated dust particles is what you don't want to get inside your body.

[austere]

it's the contaminated dust particles is what you don't want to get inside your body.

Exactly right and those will stick around with varying amounts of time depending on their biological function (if any).

By the way, Rachel Maddow has an excellent summary of the current situation which is surprisingly accurate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjdgHqY2K-4

The professor (you'll love him) had to correct her, but she is certainly above and beyond any other media personality. Throw away the fart video, this is what you need to watch if you're not sure what's going on.

[ZOM]

^That video was very informative and also reassuring to see a show that doesn't negatively aggrandize the situation.

The professor (you'll love him)

I chuckled.

[ryu]

watching that made me feel really stupid. i hadn't known anything about the fuel rods and their cooling process at all.

so the spike of radioactivity we had a few days ago was because some of those had blown up in #4?

[Blackbird]

I already had a pretty good idea of what was going on by compiling information from various sources, but that interview was a nice summary.

That Rachel Maddow is awesome! Finally, a news personality that is actually reporting responsibly, with informative content, even!

[BulletMagnet]

That Rachel Maddow is awesome! Finally, a news personality that is actually reporting responsibly, with informative content, even!

Every once in awhile she'll do something to genuinely inform the public about something important, but more often than not she tales the vacuous "Fox of the left" slant, to the detriment of both herself and her audience, as far as I'm concerned. In any event, might as well enjoy the occasions upon which she does decide to take the high road.

[greg]

Yeah, she can be just as much of a partisan hack as Sean Hannity. She's just more intelligent, making her watchable (unlike Chris Matthews or Keith Olbermann). Her expose on the liars who posed as a pimp and a hooker at the ACORN offices was interesting to watch.

[headcaseGames]

it's the contaminated dust particles is what you don't want to get inside your body.

By the way, Rachel Maddow has an excellent summary of the current situation which is surprisingly accurate:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjdgHqY2K-4

thank you very much for posting this, it is the most clear & concise explanation that we laymen can understand, I appreciate it!

[agustusx]

Rumor has it they may have to bury the reactors in concrete?? They expect it will take weeks to get this resolved.

They are finding Milk and spinach tainted up to 90 miles away. http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_1765 ... ck_check=1

And the humanitarian issue in Norther Japan is still really bad. I'm not sure if the charts I read were accurate or up to date but it stated over 1 million homes still didn't have water?

I'm hoping for the best this week and in the near future. I'm hoping no new bad news comes in.

[GaijinPunch]

They are finding Milk and spinach tainted up to 90 miles away. http://www.mercurynews.com/news/ci_1765 ... ck_check=1

If a white person said it, probably not. I've heard only "near Fukushima" and "tainted" is quite relative. Still extremely minute levels were found, and only in that vicinity. Sucks for those farmers. That's about it though.

[moozooh]

I'm curious as to why they use nuclear plants in the first place in an area as geologically active as Japan. I'd sooner expect geothermal plants like in Iceland. What exactly is interdicting them?

Iceland's entire population is 330 thousand people, twice lower than the city you're living in.

What are Japan's options to harvest energy for its incredible population density? Fossil fuels are finite and incur kinds of accidents and casualties you'd normally never see with a nuclear plant. Renewable energy (geothermal, tidal) is safer, but confined to very local spots of land (even more susceptible to accidents like this, mind you, due to direct interaction with the potentially harmful natural force), and the output is several orders of magnitude lower than a modern nuclear unit. When people subdue fusion energy, there will be just no contest energy output-wise even considering the ridiculous overhead of the preliminary designs, and Japan will hop onto that train as well, as it will make fission reaction (as well as every other non-ecologically-safe energy harvesting method) an entirely obsolete source of energy by all counts, possibly except simplicity.

All energy sources have industrial accidents and types of ecological pollution associated with them, like every industry basically. Nuclear is the most feared, potentially the most dangerous, but in practice there are much less people who have died to nuclear reactor failures than to coal excavations or dam breakdowns, even counting Chernobyl. Not to mention that thermal and hydroelectric stations' overall pollution levels are quite comparable to nuclear in practice.

[BulletMagnet]

Not to mention that thermal and hydroelectric stations' overall pollution levels are quite comparable to nuclear in practice.

Each type has its disadvantages, to be sure, but to the best of my knowledge nuclear is the only one which produces waste so hazardous that we need to hollow out mountains to store it for a couple thousand years.

[moozooh]

What I meant to say was that power sources that don't receive as much alarmist publicity as nuclear are accountable for hundreds of thousands of deaths, injuries, and illnesses directly related to production chain as well as enormous environment pollution that creates holes in ozone layers and whatnot, all of this during normal modes of operation as well as disasters. With nuclear power you have several hundred deaths, of which the vast majority are due to large scale accidents, and several thousands more attributed to cancer from significant radiation exposure, none of which happens during normal modes of operation. If we're going by absolute numbers of casualties since the 1950s, I'd say nuclear power is by far the safest.

[BulletMagnet]

If we're going by absolute numbers of casualties since the 1950s, I'd say nuclear power is by far the safest.

You're probably right, though some of that can be attributed to "traditional" fossil fuels larger market share, law of averages and all that (though I'm definitely no fan of the "eh, a few people die, but think of the capital we're saving by cutting corners on safety precautions!" mentality that seems to be prevalent therein, scale notwithstanding). In any event, maybe I'm just too picky or something, but until somebody figures out a way to neutralize the stuff nuclear power leaves behind I find the overall idea difficult to support, especially if one attempts to think long term.

[RNGmaster]

Wait, how do geothermal plants generate waste? I was under the impression that they just circulated steam through turbines, cooled it by condensation, and heated the water back into steam through geothermal heat. I don't see what step would generate any sort of output - it seems self-contained.

[GaijinPunch]

If we're going by absolute numbers of casualties since the 1950s, I'd say nuclear power is by far the safest.

Do you think this is b/c of the practice in general, or is it just the one we're most comfortable with as we've used it the longest? When do you think fusion be on the scene? I don't keep up with the stuff, but I read a lot of astronomy and whatnot, and from what I've read, fusion is far more efficient. Real statistics, I don't really know though.

hmm... from Wikipedia

The first fusion reactor to generate electrical power is planned for DEMO, the next-generation facility to follow ITER. It has been proposed to begin construction in 2024.

Seems we've got a ways to go. Plenty of chances to fuck ourselves between now and then.

[LtC]

Before fusion power becomes widely commercially available (maybe in the 40'ies earliest, if it ever even does in our lifetime) we'll have nuclear power that's far safer and cleaner than it is today. I think most countries and people are saying we should gradually give up on nuclear power in general but I don't really see how can we cope with the inevitable increase in electricity consumption, especially in countries like India or China. Biofuel plants are just as polluting as ones using fossil fuels, solar and wind power aren't still that far (And not ideal in a lot of places + they require huge investments and the repayment period is usually long) and hydro power has mostly already been tamed everywhere.

I don't really see humanity abandoning nuclear power anywhere in the foreseeable future unless someone somewhere discovers some magical way to produce energy but to be honest I'd rather not see that happen since that would most likely be far scarier than nuclear fusion or fission.