Oh also R-Type Delta!
I was sure, if i remember well, that Ikaruga and Under Defeat where short printed, something around 100.000 copies. So they weren't "Killer App" (or are 100k a killer app status for a SHMUPS in that era?)
Both Bangai-O sequels are good, though they go off in their own direction relative to the original.
Of course you can easily find a good number of videos showing a no bomb run going till 2-6 boss. However, I am assuming you mean clear of the whole game with no bomb? It certainly is quite feasible in principle [even if harder than just a no bomb run till 2-6 boss by an order of magnitude (if not more) I think]. My guess is that, on the very least, there would be at least a few no bomb clears of the game. Though I should qualify that this is still a guess on my part.
100K? Ikaruga most likely didn't have a print run of even 10K.
Oh, thx, i remember a number with 1XXXX?-like.cfx wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 7:04 pm100K? Ikaruga most likely didn't have a print run of even 10K.
I doubt any shooter sold 100K in Japan; I think you're vastly overestimating the popularity of the genre at any time.
I used to have Famitsu and various other magazines back at that time and first week sales for most games were in the few thousands if even that. I don't still have the magazines for reference anymore though.
Thanks for your answer!wiNteR wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 6:13 pmOf course you can easily find a good number of videos showing a no bomb run going till 2-6 boss. However, I am assuming you mean clear of the whole game with no bomb? It certainly is quite feasible in principle [even if harder than just a no bomb run till 2-6 boss by an order of magnitude (if not more) I think]. My guess is that, on the very least, there would be at least a few no bomb clears of the game. Though I should qualify that this is still a guess on my part.
But I haven't ever seen a video of it though. If you do find such a video do post it here or in the STG videos thread.
I was inclined to mention those two because the other series/titles I thought of were sci-fi themed, I tend to think that people are also generally aware of "airplane" shooters, and this pair are my best guesses as to which ones someone off the street might recognize. Raiden in particular was a bowling alley/diner lobby staple for some time, while 1942 gets the nod mainly because it was both one of the first of its kind and from a name as big as Capcom; as always, of course, I'm going largely by intuition, so take from this what you will.
Among gamers and/or nerds in general maybe, since the whole idea of fighting giant robotic fish is just the sort of thing that memes are made of, but even within that realm I'm pretty sure most think of this if the phrase "giant enemy crab" comes up.Darius isn't famous worldwide?
100K? These days... Yeah.
Nope. Just like any other art-form.
Ty!BulletMagnet wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 10:50 pmAmong gamers and/or nerds in general maybe, since the whole idea of fighting giant robotic fish is just the sort of thing that memes are made of, but even within that realm I'm pretty sure most think of this if the phrase "giant enemy crab" comes up.Darius isn't famous worldwide?
.
.So the best selling shmups aren't also the "best" games?
As convenient as it would be to simply look at the sales figures to judge a game (or book, or album, or movie, etc.) in terms of quality, the fact that individuals and fanbases alike use terms like "hidden gem" and "overrated" (or even "what were we thinking?") to describe titles that are viewed and treated markedly differently when some time has passed since their debut is enough on its own to disabuse any impartial observer of that notion. As with anything else, which offerings "deserve" the sales they got is a matter of opinion, but nobody is ever going to agree with the larger market 100 percent of the time; sometimes, sure, but not always.
No, no they are not.
I know.
Why is this even a question?
Nah. When was that ever true? Now is no different than any other time, aside from maybe a little more cult-like following of whatever is popular just because of social media.
This implies that Super Mario or Street Fighter (successful games, critically acclaimed and some of the masterpiece of their respective genre) are out of this circle
and that they are not the best of their era/genre.An implication that is 100% right. Those games aren't even the best of their own series let alone genre. Super Mario 3 is better than 1 and Street Fighter 2 is better than 1.
Yeh i mean the series in general...
This is a big discovery
, since those examples are stuff considered "Legendary" in their era (like other extremely old and famous series)... i don't know what was the best (of any genre) at that time so.What I am saying is you should find out. But, not by asking questions or reading what others have to say about what is and isn't quality.
Pretty well really. I'm surprised the DS was able to handle all of what was going on at nearly full speed and had a fuck load of stages with an editor. I think Spirits was the first Treasure title I owned and I loved that game to death as a kid. Picked it up on a whim in 7th grade and hardly ever put it down. Missile Fury was similarly great but it's aesthetic was a slight step down.BareKnuckleRoo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 13, 2023 2:03 pm There was one for DS, Bangai-O Spirits, and one for XB 360, Bangai-O HD: Missile Fury. I haven't actually played either of them so I don't know how well they held up to the first game.
They're not much alike, tbh, other than the basic concept of strafing. Where UD is a RayStormesque 2.5d take on Kyuukyoku Tiger, ZG2 is more like an arena STG with occasional terrain elements. Even their approach to strafing is very different, with UD limited to 45' tilts, and ZG2 letting you sweep a full 360'.
Offhand, it wouldn't surprise me. There are quite a few STGs like that, including a few really famous ones like Rayforce. An easy way to check if movement speed is standardised is to grind the ship diagonally along the screen edges, and see if it slows down. This effect can be legit handy when you want especially small micro-taps, haha.
Yeah, I take advantage of the slower diagonal movement in Hishouzame when at lower power. Pretty sure Hishouzame doesn't slow your movement when you move diagonally against the edge of the screen, but I have played a few games that do.BIL wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:14 pm Offhand, it wouldn't surprise me. There are quite a few STGs like that, including a few really famous ones like Rayforce. An easy way to check if movement speed is standardised is to grind the ship diagonally along the screen edges, and see if it slows down. This effect can be legit handy when you want especially small micro-taps, haha.
Wait, is this the actual reason for this? I'd always assumed there was some gameplay/stylistic choice for this. Like, don't the Darius games have funky diagonals?Lander wrote: ↑Fri Sep 29, 2023 3:48 pm Testing whether a given shmup is a 'movement normalizer' is an essential pre-flight check
It can be surprising; I tend to consider fast diagonals an old-school element, from a time when division was considered computationally expensive, but they show up in unexpected places sometimes.
