From Software 'n such

[Obscura]

TBH, I'd recommend skipping Dark Souls 1 and jumping straight to 2 or 3, both of which are much better games.

[youngmoneySWE]

TBH, I'd recommend skipping Dark Souls 1 and jumping straight to 2 or 3, both of which are much better games.

Care to elaborate?

Sure, DS1 isn't perfect. Stiff rolling (only four directions), a bit unnecessary convoluted upgrade system (armor/weapons), final stretch of the games feels a bit like an afterthought. But the eerie feeling the game conveys is unmatched in the series I'd say. Map design is close to flawless - at least the first half of the game. Bosses are fantastic overall and memorable. The DLC is possibly the best DLC to a game ever.

I think DS2 gets a bad rap usually - it's a solid game, but they made that game too hard in the wrong way. DS1 was brutal but not impossible - very very far from the hardest game ever (which mainstream media would have you believe). From bought into that fake hype and marketed the game as a real challenge in all the wrong way (I get terrible flashbacks from the Iron King DLC, such a beautiful area but almost unplayable).

DS3 feels more like a watered down version of DS1. They played it safe. Can't blame them - it's a great game - but at this point in the series it just feels like they're out of ideas. Might be a good place to start for people though but if you're interested in Souls I'd say start with DS1 and work your way towards DS3.

Demon's Souls is also fantastic of course. And to be fair, Bloodborne is probably the best Souls game ever (but I have a soft spot for DS1 as you can tell).

[Bananamatic]

(I get terrible flashbacks from the Iron King DLC, such a beautiful area but almost unplayable).

frozen outskirts was like a physical form of cancer even compared to iron king dlc
at least that had stuff to hide behind and you could take it slowly, in the outskirts you just get rushed by 2 reindeers at once and you can't do shit

sotfs iron keep gets an honorable mention for a retarded amount of alonne knights
I had to take 2 weapons and still needed a repair powder for smelter demon when I killed every single one on my way there, there's something like 25-30 of them

[youngmoneySWE]

Yeah I only beat the outskirts once. Never went back in subsequent playthroughs, and I generally go for 100% completion when I play Souls. I think From learned their lesson with that one, we'll never see anything like it again probably. I don't remember that Scholar added more knights in the Iron Keep (or just in that area before Smelter 2?) but you're probably right. Overall I found Scholar to be a more concise DS2 experience than vanilla DS2 though, finding the keys to the DLC in the world and such.

[Blinge]

TBH, I'd recommend skipping Dark Souls 1 and jumping straight to 2 or 3, both of which are much better games.

Care to elaborate?

Oh god, not this again.
Actually it was a separate thread wasn't it? Could just pull that up.

you actually can't buy the original version on steam any more, just the remaster.

This is rather annoying.
DSfix was enough for me.

[Sumez]

Maybe something like this for the undead burg, this for one of the underground areas. Naturally, anything I pick couldn't be as appropriate as something composed specifically for the game.

... so basically similar to the music that is already in the game
Though I don't normally approve of the way actual video game music has been downplayed in modern games for the sake of atmospheric settings, I really do love the way it's done in the Souls series. There is not much music, but the music is super well done, and when it is employed, it has an incredible effect. I'm not a big fan of Dark Souls 2, but that whole area leading up to the demon of song just felt so much more creepy for actually having real music (and you just knew something was causing it)

TBH, I'd recommend skipping Dark Souls 1 and jumping straight to 2 or 3, both of which are much better games.

[Sumez]

DS3 feels more like a watered down version of DS1. They played it safe. Can't blame them - it's a great game - but at this point in the series it just feels like they're out of ideas. Might be a good place to start for people though but if you're interested in Souls I'd say start with DS1 and work your way towards DS3.

Demon's Souls is also fantastic of course. And to be fair, Bloodborne is probably the best Souls game ever (but I have a soft spot for DS1 as you can tell).

I'd say start with Dark Souls or Demon's Souls, and follow up those two with Bloodborne and DS3 in any order (might be a good idea to do Bloodborne before DS3 just to mix things up). Really no good reason to play Dark Souls 2 before you exhausted all the other stuff and just need to get more.

[Square_Air]

Frozen reindeer hell was the worst area in any Dark Souls game. If I even do decide to build another PVP character on SOTFS, I won't touch that hot garbage again. I still prefer DS1 to SOTFS & DS3, but I can respect some of the changes in DS3. Even Scholar has a few neat things in it like the PVP (soul memory is awful though) and possibly my favourite boss in the series, Fume Knight/Raime The Traitor.

Besides the frozen shithole and the boring run up to Sir Alonne, I actually liked the Ivory & Old Iron King DLCs. It was the Sunken King DLC that I found to be the worst one.

I still need to get around to playing Bloodborne, but the PS4 is still holding it hostage, so I won't be playing it soon. I just two handed my PKCS in DS3 for most of the game and only kept a shield handy for some goofy 360 parries, so the combat in BB seems like it won't be too much of a jump from that. The PVE in BB seems really polished, but the PVP looks disappointing.

[youngmoneySWE]

I'd say the Ivory King DLC (save for Outskirts) was as close DS2 came to DS1/DS3/BB level design. Huge area with rather few bonfires, but many shortcuts to unlock. Smart enemy placements, secret areas, and good rewards for exploration (finding all four knights for the final encounter). Probably my favorite part of DS2 outside of Aldia's Keep / Dragon Aerie.

[Blinge]

Lol Aldia's keep sucked what are you talking about.

Also what about just playing them in order you bloody weirdos.
Bloodborne can float around though.

[Sumez]

Man I feel so left out of all the DLC talk. I hate the concept of DLC, and don't recall ever buying any for any game ever. When I finished each game in this series (incl. BB), I'd be 100% completely up for tackling all the DLC immediately, but when the DLC would eventually come out, the concept of taking the game back up just felt like a tough task.

Maybe I'll finally return to DS1 some day with the remake, and tackle the DLC along with it. I'm actually really curious about the DS2 DLC as well, but I really don't feel like ever returning to that game. So much of it just feels like a horrible trudge.

[Mortificator]

Completed the lower Undead Burg. The capra demon took me off guard when it charged right after I walked through the white light, but it fell before I did. I went through the depths until some gecko sprayed me and my HP dropped like a rock, leaving me cursed on respawn.

This seemed like a good opportunity to explore New Londo. After dying to the mass wraith attack, I bought a purging stone so I could deal with it at full health, since I knew the way by then and had a stockpile of transient curses. At the end, I was faced with a door that wouldn't open and a mechanism that wouldn't function. Maybe I'm supposed to drop down the elevator shaft and do something below to get it working? A prism stone makes the "safe" noise. Oh, wait, I died anyway, because it was reacting to the surface of the water and not the actual depth.

Petrus and the guy I rescued from the church are talking about Rhea being in trouble in the catacombs, so that's my next stop. There's a titanite demon, and I was expecting to fight another of them sooner or later, but I thought it would be a complete version since the first was missing a leg. This one's identically disabled, just in a corridor instead of an open area.

Bonewheels! What goofy enemies. As they zoom past me and around a corner, they fall through the floor and cease to exist. Pinwheel's an interesting boss, and I bone out when the first attempt starts going against me, then return and kill him.

I died at least ten times in the Tomb of the Giants. Maneuvering and fighting in pitch black is incredibly annoying. An attempt to jury-rig a torch by using charcoal resin on my spear failed due to the lack of lighting effects. I got a lamp (which only shines in the left hand) and rescued Rhea, but this is ultimately another dead end with a door of light I can't traverse. On the trudge back to the surface, I long for a fast travel system.

I headed back through the depths equipped with a cursebite ring I picked up at some point. Sewers are almost universally boring in video games, and Dark Souls is no exception. The Gaping Dragon appeared with much fanfare, then barely put up a fight. Blighttown was next, which was traversed with no deaths, though it was close at the end. After I was out of blooming purple moss, the last blowgun guy afflicted me with toxin before I could kill him, but the massive stock of heals I can carry post-Pinwheel let me time out the effect. I ultimately ended up back in the Valley of Drakes, so I'm not sure what the point of the trip was, other than a couple goodies and a lot of dung.

Though I don't normally approve of the way actual video game music has been downplayed in modern games for the sake of atmospheric settings, I really do love the way it's done in the Souls series. There is not much music, but the music is super well done, and when it is employed, it has an incredible effect. I'm not a big fan of Dark Souls 2, but that whole area leading up to the demon of song just felt so much more creepy for actually having real music (and you just knew something was causing it)

Sounds like the final dungeon in Ocarina of Time, where the music from Ganon's organ would grow in volume as you ascended. This kind of scenario doesn't necessitate the entire game lacking music.

It's disappointing to hear there's nothing to hear in the other titles. No matter how good Dark Souls' atmosphere is, it could be enhanced by good music.

Nah, people were calling it a spiritual successor to King's Field, not that the game is LIKE it. Anchoring the new series to the dev's history etc.

You must not have run that web search.

As for the dev's history, Dark Souls was designed by a person who never worked on a King's Field game in his life and didn't even get a job designing games until King's Field was finished.

if at some point you find "effective" tactics are trivialising the game and making it less fun for you, I'd sugest stopping

It would be harder if I did something like put all my points in dexterity and then only used weapons that rely on strength, but I don't see the virtue in doing things that are deliberately stupid.

[Square_Air]

Bonewheels! What goofy enemies. As they zoom past me and around a corner, they fall through the floor and cease to exist.

Bonewheel skeletons are a Dark Souls staple, and I love them despite their frustrating stunlock potential. It really shows that there's a little bit of a sense of humor to these games beyond the doom and gloom. Enemies and players falling through the floor was an issue when you ran Prepare To Die edition at 60 FPS, but it wasn't completely unheard of when running at 30 FPS though far rarer. My favourite was in DS3 when I opened an illusory wall in the Smoldering Lake ruins and fell straight through the floor to my death. I was never able to recreate this though.

On the trudge back to the surface, I long for a fast travel system.

I enjoy doing a bit of traveling to reach destinations in DS1, especially since the world map is so nicely designed. DS 2&3 have fast travel from the start and it really makes the game feel less like a sprawling world and more like a collection of small challenge sections. DS3 did it a little better than 2, but the abundance of bonfires + instant fast travel makes areas feel less significant since you just blow through them and almost never come back.

If you are wondering about how to move around more quickly in DS1...

Spoiler

You unlock a limited fast travel mechanic in Anor Londo.

I ultimately ended up back in the Valley of Drakes, so I'm not sure what the point of the trip was, other than a couple goodies and a lot of dung.

I'm pretty sure Firelink sadboi tells you that the second bell is down there, not to mention access to multiple different areas, secret and mandatory. That Blighttown > Valley Of Drakes path is right beside the gate to the start of New Londo Ruins, so you get an easy shortcut to get from Firelink to Blighttown in under a minute.

Though I don't normally approve of the way actual video game music has been downplayed in modern games for the sake of atmospheric settings, I really do love the way it's done in the Souls series. There is not much music, but the music is super well done, and when it is employed, it has an incredible effect. I'm not a big fan of Dark Souls 2, but that whole area leading up to the demon of song just felt so much more creepy for actually having real music (and you just knew something was causing it)

Sounds like the final dungeon in Ocarina of Time, where the music from Ganon's organ would grow in volume as you ascended. This kind of scenario doesn't necessitate the entire game lacking music.

It's disappointing to hear there's nothing to hear in the other titles. No matter how good Dark Souls' atmosphere is, it could be enhanced by good music.

I was a little on the fence when I first played Dark Souls, but I think the game works well with its current sound design. There are a few areas with music in them outside of boss battles, but they're very rare and clearly indicate you're at a unique location. I don't think I really want consistent music in Dark Souls to be honest, but maybe some sparingly used ambient stuff that's much more low key than the stuff you suggested could work.

if at some point you find "effective" tactics are trivialising the game and making it less fun for you, I'd sugest stopping

It would be harder if I did something like put all my points in dexterity and then only used weapons that rely on strength, but I don't see the virtue in doing things that are deliberately stupid.

I adore DS1, but it's chock full of exploits, bugs, and cheese. Don't bother setting up arbitrary challenges for yourself on your first playthrough when you're exploring things for the first time. There's tons of variety to bring you back for all sorts of subsequent runs though, I think I've ran through it 8 times now with different builds and there's still other things I still haven't got around to. I mostly focused on PVP after my first 2 runs, so I still have lots of leftover PVE challenges left like an SL1 run I never got around to doing.

[guigui]

Mortificator :I love reading your acid opinions on your 1st playthrough of the game. Keep'em coming.
Just a piece of thought for you : if you ran through Blighttown without meeting one (or two) spider(s), then you missed something.

[Sumez]

Yeah, I'm not sure getting to the Valley of Drakes counts as "traversing" Blighttown I actually didn't find that particular exit until really late in the game. As the others have been saying, go exploring a bit more, here...

Interesting reading these experiences and how differently you go about the game, from how I experienced it. And yeah, adding a fast travel system to DS1 from the beginning would have completely ruined one of the best elements of the game. And even if you think that's not true, I think DS2 proved that well enough.

[guigui]

I totally agree that the fast traveling system on DS1 is very well done : just a slight touch, unlocked later, to keep you from doing very long trip.
As a result, after about 5 runs of the game, I have the map of DS1 at my fingertips (sometimes do a mental run through the map to enjoy the landscape).

On the other hands, after 4 runs of DS3, I'm not even sure how to get to Farron's Keep from the beginning.

[Blinge]

Nah, people were calling it a spiritual successor to King's Field, not that the game is LIKE it. Anchoring the new series to the dev's history etc.

You must not have run that web search.

No, you came into the thread already fighting that argument against no one.
I visit this thread to talk about games i love, don't wanna be roped into this particular nerd fight thanks.

if at some point you find "effective" tactics are trivialising the game and making it less fun for you, I'd sugest stopping

It would be harder if I did something like put all my points in dexterity and then only used weapons that rely on strength, but I don't see the virtue in doing things that are deliberately stupid.

Yeah, it is a stupid idea. More extreme than what I meant.

Mortificator :I love reading your acid opinions on your 1st playthrough of the game. Keep'em coming.
Just a piece of thought for you : if you ran through Blighttown without meeting one (or two) spider(s), then you missed something.

People sharing their experiences is cool. Ol Morty's posts give off that "huh what's the fuss about" too cynical to be entertained/impressed vibe I find distasteful, unfortunately.
Is that what you mean by an acid opinion?

Also spoiler much ?

Interesting reading these experiences and how differently you go about the game, from how I experienced it.

Agreed.
And for the sake of being more respectful, i'd like to know the thought process that led to discovering lower burg after already going blighttown.

[guigui]

Mortificator :I love reading your acid opinions on your 1st playthrough of the game. Keep'em coming.
Just a piece of thought for you : if you ran through Blighttown without meeting one (or two) spider(s), then you missed something.

People sharing their experiences is cool. Ol Morty's posts give off that "huh what's the fuss about" too cynical to be entertained/impressed vibe I find distasteful, unfortunately. Is that what you mean by an acid opinion?

Come on Blinge, you can certainly detect that Ol' Morty is writing things this way in a thread full of From's fanboys only to tease us. He is definitely having a blast with the game, read between the lines. I do love his "pffff, dont like it but I'll keep going" tone.

Also yeah, maybe too much spoiler, apologies. Though I think s*****s can not be avoided very longer down there.

[Mortificator]

Dark Souls has met the minimum pleasure standards necessary for me to continue, so far.

I went back to Blighttown from the Valley of Drakes side, which was a much faster trip. A certain bug occured less frequently this route (the one where the camera moves behind structures and fills your screen with wood grain) and a bug-related bug was more prominent (the one where flies pass right through the floor). Waded around in the mildly dangerous water grabbing everything that glowed before entering the domain of Quelaag. She must be very confused, between having the lower body of a spider, living in a termite mound, and being surrounded by maggot-infested undead. My first attempt ended in death when I rolled into her lava, my second in victory. A second bell was rung, and a cinematic made my next destination clear, but I was curious about what was deeper. I started exploring the Demon Ruins, which I can tell were the location visible from the Tomb of the Giants, until the only path terminated in lava.

A pass through Firelink Shrine to reinforce my flasks revealed that some dirty SOB had killed the fire keeper. The prisoner from the church is gone, so I guess rescuing him came back to bite me. There's an item that says it's to invade the murderer's world, but I can't activate it.

Next is Sen's Fortress, where the developers loved one texture so much they pasted it on everything. In contrast to the boring visuals, this was one of the better locations, with a variety of traps to deal with or turn against the serpent men. There are a few deaths here, enough that I feel challenged after the last couple of areas. The friendly onion knight turns out to be a little badass, and I bump fists with him at the end of a trail of corpses. There's a ring that resists fire and a lightning spear, which I know from the gold resin description is effective against dragons, so I bone out before traversing the white light and make another trip back to the bridge to kill its resident red. For this feat, I get a quicker path to an area I don't need to go anymore and a bonfire that's a short stroll from another bonfire.

It's irritatingly unpredictable which enemies will respawn and which ones won't. The firebomb-throwing giant has stayed dead, but unknown to me, the identical rock-loading giant has returned to life. I'm walking up the stairs thinking how convenient it is not to deal with boulders anymore when I eat one right in the face. Sen's boss marks a disappointing end to the area, as he's just Big Armor Guy in yet another guise.

The flight up to Anor Londo is the first hard load since leaving the asylum, breaking up the continuous world all Lordran areas have been part of. Its bonfire gives +15 estus already, yet I need to kindle it three times to reach +20. At least there's another fire keeper to reinforce my flasks.

for the sake of being more respectful, i'd like to know the thought process that led to discovering lower burg after already going blighttown.

My post on the 25th ended with me on the bridge trying my hand at the red dragon again. When that didn't pan out, I tried the locked door at the start of the bridge, and the basement key I'd picked up since my first time there worked.

I typically keep electronic notes when I play through games, and mine for Dark Souls include a list of all the points of interest I haven't been able to access yet. A provocative one is a wall in the bonewheel room where I could hear what sounded like a smithy.

[evil_ash_xero]

TBH, I'd recommend skipping Dark Souls 1 and jumping straight to 2 or 3, both of which are much better games.

2 is not a better game. The only thing that you can say is better about III is that it controls far better. And you cannot say that about 2. It's even clunkier than the first one.

[AAA]

TBH, I'd recommend skipping Dark Souls 1 and jumping straight to 2 or 3, both of which are much better games.

I hope this is delicious irony.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I recently had the chance to play through the very first game in the King's Field series (the original Japanese one's been translated, the first western release we had of "King's Field" is actually the second game in the series). It's a slow paced dungeon crawler, and the combat is obviously fairly basic, but considering this was one of the earliest PS1 games out there, it's not too shabby. The claustrophobic atmosphere when exploring is really quite enjoyable. It's easy to see why the series became a cult classic.

[Immryr]

I recently had the chance to play through the very first game in the King's Field series (the original Japanese one's been translated, the first western release we had of "King's Field" is actually the second game in the series). It's a slow paced dungeon crawler, and the combat is obviously fairly basic, but considering this was one of the earliest PS1 games out there, it's not too shabby. The claustrophobic atmosphere when exploring is really quite enjoyable. It's easy to see why the series became a cult classic.

yeah, the first king's field is pretty decent. i played it some time last year i think.... or maybe late 2016. the follow up is definitely a step up though, i love that game and would highly recommend it if you haven't played it. i haven't yet got round to playing 3 or 4 but i plan to at some point. i've been trying to buy 4 for ages but it's one of those games where i just always seem to get out bid on.


Mort: i know the iron golem isn't exactly the most original boss design of all time but at this point in the game..... what other big armour guy bosses have you fought?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Yeah, the sequels which got western releases are fantastic, and pretty significantly improved over the first one. A lot of stuff got amped up - traps and secret doors galore, more enemies and spells, etc. It's all great stuff if you're looking for a first person RPG dungeon crawler.

[JBC]

I finished the first run of Remastered yesterday & enjoyed it as much as I remember liking the original version, but with SotFS fresh in my memory I would argue that it is the better game. Unexpectedly I found myself missing the way environments were set up in DSIII. I really found it to be more frustrating than the later entries in a less enjoyable way. There sure is alot of empty space in the game. Still great, but maybe my memory was Abit rose tinted going in.

[Sumez]

Man I wanna give King's Field another try now... I only played the 4th game though, as it's the only one I have. And when I played it I really wasn't impressed. It was appealing for sure, but I just couldn't enjoy it.
Meanwhile, Shadow Tower Abyss is just amazing.

[evil_ash_xero]

I would like to know, what the heck is with the reaction to Dark Souls Remastered?
Some, and I would like to stress "some", people are acting like it's the worst thing ever, and From should be set on fire.

Mainly because it doesn't alter things enough, from what I understand.
For this generation, I have bought God of War III, Valkyria Chronicles, and Dragon's Crown Remasters. And they are WAY less altered than DSR.

The game runs at a good 60 fps, which is such is something that would have been enough for me, having to put up with it's god awful performance on the PS3. It does have some graphical enhancements, although not major (but definitely more than the games I mentioned). And is running at 1080p (as opposed to 720p, it's resolution for it's original release).

I am really baffled at the hostility people are having about this remaster. I know Dark Souls fans are a complaining lot, but this really takes the cake. Can someone justify this to me?

You know that next gen, there will be a Blooborne: Remastered, that will run at 60 fps, and will fix all the frame pacing issues. And perhaps have some graphical enhancements. For me, that's fine. Because the original has performance issues, and I want to see it run smoothly. I wonder if it will get the same kind of hostility.

And I stress that it's not everyone. But wow, the people that are mad about it, are MAD about it.

Is it the price? It's cheaper than the upgraded Switch ports. And I don't see them getting any where near this kind of grief.

[Immryr]

I think the main reason is that the PC version of dark souls was essentially broken from release and it didn't get a single patch, so this remaster is basically seen as being a $20 patch. Add to that the fact that the changes made to the lighting and textures is a bit underwhelming/patchy and you've got some unhappy pc people.

I don't think anyone is complaining about the console versions.

[JBC]

I'm on PS4 Pro & am satisfied with the Remaster as an upgrade to the PS3 version. It's nearly as much of a step up as SotFS. A much cleaner & more comfortable way to play over the original, especially when it comes to lighting in the dark areas. Then of course there's Blightown & New Londo Ruins running just as smooth as anything else in the game. It's odd to see them like that at this point.

Bring on Demon's Souls Remastered

[Obiwanshinobi]

It is puzzling to not see Demon's Souls ported to anything (that would, realistically speaking, most likely be a PlayStation of sorts) yet. As if there was more profit waitng to be made of it, if only kept its announcement put on hold for a little bit longer. If not this variety of game design, then at least presentation style shall be done to death sooner or later, at which point who's gonna believe it's worth a look anymore? I take it either a remake is planned, or actually Demon's Souls keeps selling quite a few PS3s each year (to the buyers who typically upgrade a generation or two behind current systems, like I do and surely can't be alone doing this).