OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[Xyga]

I think 1080 displays don't like the x4/960 and x5/1080 modes from the OSSC, I haven't found a single one that will show even one of those properly yet, no matter the source, it'll be either with forced scaling or nothing/out of range.
It's a shame but most monitors and TVs today lack a real 1:1 mode, and often also just decent justified and forced ratio modes.
For the OSSC to 'trick' those into thinking they receive the - very few - signals they recognize and accept to treat properly without modifying them, it would probably require additions to its very architecture and maybe even give up being lagless (just assuming but I think that's it)
With 1080 displays the best working mode will be x3/720 in most cases, it's importnt then that the monitor upscales 720p well.
Otherwise what option do we have other than adding a DVDO in the chain or buying a 4K display? The Mini surely isn't a good option.

[Blair]

I only tried Zelda 3 on my 60hz modded pal 1chip snes. I just set the scanlines to auto and that was it. I was walking around the area to the right of the pyramid when I noticed the scanlines was vibrating slightly in the dark green water. It was weird. They seemed to behave on land. I don't know...try it for yourself. I've already put my OSSC in the closet, having way too much fun with Mario Rabbids.

I'll have to give it a try later on my 1chip. (just received the new ossc 1.6 unit today). if it's only happening in that one specific spot something something else might be going on with the scaling on your display. (what's the make and model?) also, what was the scanline strength? (I usually have mine set to 75% or higher and I just compensate for the slight brightness loss with a few picture adjustments)

It's not a scanline problem and the entire screen somewhat flickers. I don't have this issue with 480i sources, it's specifically with 240p on the PS1.

that's interesting, (experiencing this issue on all PS1 titles?) wondering if it's just the OSSC not liking your scart cable or maybe the analog filter settings might need adjusting (does it look the same if you use "up sample2x" mode with 240p?). do you also have a PlayStation 2 that you can use? might be useful to try playing PSX games on that and maybe with a component cable just see if that looks any different.

And buffering up the start of the next frame while it finishes off the bottom border and a new top border. Seems like a shame to kill some of the super speed processing by massaging the signal with a framemeister.

if your TV has good 480p scaling with its game mode, I would just stick to the OSSC's 2x modes and just leave the frameMeister to perform de-interlacing on 480i titles. (I have a few splitters that seem to work, I'll post them later when I can make a list)

I think 1080 displays don't like the x4/960 and x5/1080 modes from the OSSC, I haven't found a single one that will show even one of those properly yet, no matter the source, it'll be either with forced scaling or nothing/out of range.
It's a shame but most monitors and TVs today lack a real 1:1 mode,

yeah it's a little strange. on my Samsung, the OSSC @ 960p is badly processed (massive ringing) on the HDMI ports, but if I use the VGA port it looks perfectly fine. (it also has a 1:1 pixel map function when using that input) although as you said before, on the vast majority of 1080p televisions 2x or 3x modes will probably be preferable. (and with scanlines even mediocre 480p processing tends to look okay with the 2x modes)

[Dochartaigh]

I think 1080 displays don't like the x4/960 and x5/1080 modes from the OSSC, I haven't found a single one that will show even one of those properly yet

I've literally only messed with mine for maybe ~2 hours, but it surely seems to bes VERY dependent on the TV which we all knew going into this (which IMO is the OSSC's biggest detriment).

My crappy Vizio LED TV (well, it looks nicer than my friends/families TV's, but was cheap, is already a couple years old, and I don't think Vizio is a very highly thought of brand, right?) does 4x and 5x (5x the top and bottom are cut off a little bit which I think is proper for a 1920x1080 display running 240p content). I tried NES, SNES, Sega Genesis, PS1, PS2. The OSSC spanks the XRGB-mini for Xbox 480p (2x) content as well (haven't compared it to my TV's native upscaling yet, but it looks promising).

[Blair]

I've literally only messed with mine for maybe ~2 hours, but it surely seems to bes VERY dependent on the TV which we all knew going into this (which IMO is the OSSC's biggest detriment).

My crappy Vizio (well, it looks nicer than my friends/families TV's, but was cheap, is already a couple years old, and I don't think Vizio is a very highly thought of brand, right?)

Visio "was" considered kind of a bargain bin brand before, but since the television market has sort of collapsed they've actually become a fairly respected leader in the electronics space. (at least in America). their claim to fame originally was using the same panels as the so-called higher-end manufacturers at the time (but at a much more affordable price). as long as you have a decent model with a good panel (might want to look up your model number on some of the AV forums) and have all the settings dialed in optimally probably not not missing out on much with the Visio. (and they usually have better input lag).

I think some people are making a bigger deal out of the tv incompatibilities issue than it really is, the original scope of the project (as I understand it) was just a simple relatively affordable input-lag free line doubler. the higher line output modes are just kind of a bonus. but as I said in a previous post, if your TV does a decent enough job with the 2X mode (over 90% of displays should be compatible with it), you're not missing out on anything. it still performs its intended function beautifully.

[Xyga]

But most often there's quite a difference in picture quality between x2 and x3 because few displays have really good 480p upscaling.

Actually I think x3 has become the selling point of the OSSC along with it being lagless and simulating scanlines, x2 is mostly seen as a minimal-compatibility mode now.
x3 works on many displays while looking sharp n good, rarely butchered by the display's buit-in scalers.

But x4/480x2 and x5 are bonuses indeed, since those will work properly only on a restricted number of displays whether they're TVs or monitors.
(The most friendly being 4K by far, it seems. Regarding WQHD afaik too few have been tested with the OSSC to speak)
As as you guys say, compatibility has little to do with price, nor brand, any manufacturer can change 1 little thing in the design the next year and it'll be entirely different.

[Blair]

very true, like most things it's a bit of a of dice roll. such is the life of a retro gamer.

took a few pics of OSSC+ Wild Arms 5 on the ps2 at various resolutions. 480p, 1080i and 1080p (using GSM). it's a fantastic looking game in motion, especially at higher resolutions.

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[lui]

OSSC - JP21 edition prototype.

[Xyga]

Wouldn't it be simpler to use a JP21>SCART adapter?

[lui]

A new supplier is planning to release it for sale in the Japanese market at the end of this year, thus the different version.

[Unseen]

OSSC - JP21 edition prototype.

I usually try to avoid comments like this, but this time I can't resist...

Wow, great pictures. Relatively dark room and walls/ceiling as bounce surfaces?

[Xyga]

A new supplier is planning to release it for sale in the Japanese market at the end of this year, thus the different version.

Wow!

[Elrinth]

What is the difference between framemeister 1080p signal and the OSSC 1080p signal?

[Fudoh]

The FM outputs 1080p matching official timing specs (well, minus the refresh rate), while the OSSC has to "bend" the timings quite a bit due to it's framebuffer-less design. Hence the reduced compatibility on many TVs and monitors.

[donluca]

Not sure if this has been asked before (or if I did ask this myself a lot ago), but...

Does the OSSC upscale to 6x? I'm asking this because 1440p monitors offer a clean 6x upscale from 240p and would work wonders with 3x scanlines.

This is how I have my MAME configured on my 27" iMac which sports a 2560x1440 resolution and it looks fantastic.

[brentsg]

Wouldn't it be simpler to use a JP21>SCART adapter?

Can you point me for a source for this? The only thing I've found goes in the opposite direction, so male/female is reversed.

Wish I had known a version with JP21 socket was coming. I don't own a single SCART cable.

[Xyga]

Now that you're asking you're right there not being an obvious source, the two I ever got came with superguns...

[Fudoh]

JP21 to EuroSCART is hardly ever requested, so I don't think there are any readily available, but building the adapter is dead easy, so I'm sure that any place that offers the other direction, can make you one in a heartbeat.

[BuckoA51]

JP21 to EuroSCART is hardly ever requested, so I don't think there are any readily available, but building the adapter is dead easy, so I'm sure that any place that offers the other direction, can make you one in a heartbeat.

I'm actively chasing up a couple of places to either get some built to resell or to direct customers to. As Fudoh says it's not exactly a complex adapter, just not often asked for.

[Gnomenthusiast]

I managed to update the OSSC and try the new modes.

My projector is compatible with everything including 5x, with MegaDrive, NES, SNES, PS1.

Games are looking absolutely amazing with 5x, I couldn't be happier with the device.

Does anyone know if it's possible to connect external hardware to change the profile used on the OSSC?

I have a mad idea to use the output header on the gscartsw to trigger profiles for each console to get the OSSC setup right without additional faffing around.

Edit : Some photos. For Scale, Blaze in the SOR gameplay shot is about 30cm Tall.

[Dochartaigh]

Visio "was" considered kind of a bargain bin brand before, but since the television market has sort of collapsed they've actually become a fairly respected leader in the electronics space. (at least in America).

I'm glad to hear Vizio doesn't suck lol. Mine is the Vizio E601i-A3, and I can't find out who makes the panel but it was affordable and looks pretty good IMO.

My favorite thing about the OSSC so far is I can get 5x mode to work and it fills the entire screen top to bottom (minus some small pixels cutoff top and bottom), AND scanlines still look pretty good on it (still need to do an A/B comparison with FM some more). On the XRGB-mini everyone suggest 3x for the thicker scanlines (like my BVM's have and I like the best) and that doesn't fill the entire screen which bugs me a bit.


How does the OSSC handle WIDESCREEN 16:9 content at 480p?

My Xbox in 480p has a bunch of 16:9 widescreen games I would like to play. They show up as widescreen on my BVM no problem (the BVM is in 16:9 aspect ratio mode though). It seems like the OSSC handles them as 480p (640x480), when I think (not positive) that trus 480p widescreen should be 854x480, right? I didn't see a setting for that anywhere...

What's weird is my Xbox is softmodded with UnleashX, and the UnleashX dashboard shows up (through the OSSC on my LED TV) in it's native widescreen 16:9 480p, but as soon as I launch a game (even though the Xbox is setup for true widescreen 16:9 mode), the game still launches in 4:3.

Just guessing here, but could it be that the original Xbox's games aren't really at a widescreen 854x480 pixel size, but anamorphic widescreen which basically sends a signal (which a regular TV would see - like as if a 16:9 anamorphic DVD were playing) saying that this 640x480 content should be stretched to 16:9 ratio? ...but the OSSC isn't passing that through to the TV. I can manually set my TV to "wide" mode, but that's literally just stretching the image.

[Fudoh]

480p 4:3 or 16:9 have both a 720x480p resolution. A processor (or TV for that matter) can't tell 4:3 from 16:9. You have to set that manually.

[Dochartaigh]

480p 4:3 or 16:9 have both a 720x480p resolution. A processor (or TV for that matter) can't tell 4:3 from 16:9. You have to set that manually.

So I reset the OSSC's settings, and switch it to 2x mode. My TV is setup normal (i.e. no "wide" or "stretch" or "zoom" setting turned on). The UnleashX dashboard loads up 16:9 widescreen automatically. I start a game and it automatically changes to 4:3 mode (although the Xbox is set to widescreen - and not the 4:3 fake "widescreen letterboxed" mode either). At this point the only option I have is to use one of those wide/stretch/zoom settings built into the TV which usually pixelates things? --might just run it in 4:3 if that's the case. I can get away with that on a 20" CRT, but not a 60" flatscreen lol.


To the 720x480 resolution (which is 3:2 fyi) - and I'm just curious here - so the Xbox's 480p is set to the "Rec.601" standard (so sayith the 480p Wiki - had to google that and not regular 640x480 most of us know (or at least I thought) 480p is usually known as?

[Fudoh]

Lacking a display compatible with 960p output from the OSSC, I can't tell what's the actual output resolution when using a 480p source and using the OSSC's doubling option. I assume it's simply 1440x960p. And while 720x480p is a valid resolution for both 4:3 and 16:9 sources, 1440x960p is merely a PC timing with 1:1 pixel ratio for your display.

The UnleashX dashboard loads up 16:9 widescreen automatically.

and what resolution is it set to ?

I start a game and it automatically changes to 4:3 mode (although the Xbox is set to widescreen

the XBox Widescreen setting would tell a 16:9 compatible game to render the graphics narrower than in 4:3 mode (but using the same resolution). You're using a game that's actually 16:9 compatible ?

What I think is going on: your dashboard is set to a higher resolution like 720p which the OSSC doesn't process. Your TV sees that as 16:9. Once your game boots, the XBox defaults to 480p, which the OSSC doubles and your TV sees as a PC resolution with 1:1 pixel ratio - that's also why you get the altered screen options.

To the 720x480 resolution (which is 3:2 fyi)

480p in both 4:3 and 16:9 don't use square pixels.

and I'm just curious here - so the Xbox's 480p is set to the "Rec.601" standard (so sayith the 480p Wiki - had to google that and not regular 640x480 most of us know (or at least I thought) 480p is usually known as?

REC601 is a color space setting. And 480p usually really isn't 640x480. 640x480 is a VESA timing, while 480p is a SMPTE timing (720x480). As far as I know there's no console with 640x480 output. They all output 480p instead.

[Dochartaigh]

Fudoh, you really do know too much And are correct: UnleashX dashboard is in "1125i 33.70kHz/59.92Hz" so that is solved (and I had 720p and 1080i turned on in the Xbox dashboard - when I turn those off, only leaving 480p on, the dashboard comes up in 4:3).

For Xbox 16:9 games, yes, there's a crapton listed here as being 16:9 natively (and up to 720p/1080i as well) – people can also patch some games which weren't able to be played in 16:9 straight from the developer too:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_X ... play_modes

BUT, and I could very well be talking out my ass here since I can't find a definitive answer online, but I think these 16:9 (talking about the 480p ones, as the 720p and 1080i would be widescreen right off the bat natively) could be anamorphic widescreen like 480p DVD's were back in the day - and those (if hooked up via component with the Microsoft Xbox AV pack, and on a compatible TV), I think used to send a signal to the TV so it knew it was an anamorphic DVD, and the TV automatically put itself into "wide" mode (or whatever it's called) to unstretch the compressed pixels in that 720x480 video source, and then you would have your 16:9 widescreen display properly. So it would make sense I have to manually put my TV into that wide mode to have it fit-to-screen.

[DirkSwizzler]

And buffering up the start of the next frame while it finishes off the bottom border and a new top border. Seems like a shame to kill some of the super speed processing by massaging the signal with a framemeister.

if your TV has good 480p scaling with its game mode, I would just stick to the OSSC's 2x modes and just leave the frameMeister to perform de-interlacing on 480i titles. (I have a few splitters that seem to work, I'll post them later when I can make a list)

It doesn't, which is why I'm inquiring about technology to solve the scaling issues before they reach the TV. I still would like information on what splitters work with 5x if you have it, please.

[Fudoh]

but I think these 16:9 (talking about the 480p ones, as the 720p and 1080i would be widescreen right off the bat natively) could be anamorphic widescreen like 480p DVD's were back in the day - and those (if hooked up via component with the Microsoft Xbox AV pack, and on a compatible TV), I think used to send a signal to the TV so it knew it was an anamorphic DVD, and the TV automatically put itself into "wide" mode

yes, games that support 16:9 are rendered in anamorphic widescreen. Widescreen signals can be flagged as such when using Scart or HDMI connections, but through component I really wouldn't know how a display or processor would have a chance to tell 4:3 from 16:9. It's really the same signal.

[Unseen]

Widescreen signals can be flagged as such when using Scart or HDMI connections, but through component I really wouldn't know how a display or processor would have a chance to tell 4:3 from 16:9. It's really the same signal.

Widescreen Signalling exists as an in-band method that seems to be component-capable and it looks like the Xbox' video encoder can generate it.

[Fudoh]

thanks! Didn't about that one and I don't think that any of my devices ever automatically switched using a component signal.

[copy]

I mentioned this in the 4K Blues thread, but I'm having sync problems with the combination of a Sony X900E TV, OSSC, and SNES. Frequent dropouts especially in the 3x output mode. Reproducible with c-sync, sync-on-luma, and HD Retrovision cables.

I've tried all the Analog Sync LPF and H-PLL Pre-Coast settings with no improvement. Changing H-PLL Post-Coast to anything other than 0 completely loses the signal. Anything else I should try next?

[lui]

OSSC - JP21 edition prototype.

I usually try to avoid comments like this, but this time I can't resist...

Wow, great pictures. Relatively dark room and walls/ceiling as bounce surfaces?

That's correct. Merely making do with what is presently at hand.
Expect more pictures of various Japanese systems and the OSSC to come.


Additionally I am having an issue with the FM Towns and the OSSC not receiving a signal.