OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[neorichieb1971]

Do we have a candidate for best monitor or best TV with the OSSC yet?

After getting an OSSC I would love to match it with the creme de la creme screen.

[pyrotek85]

Do we have a candidate for best monitor or best TV with the OSSC yet?

After getting an OSSC I would love to match it with the creme de la creme screen.

I'd be interested to hear about any good monitors too. Mine are working well (ASUS VE247H) but getting a bit old at this point, I'm sure current models look even better.

[TillDawn]

Hi TillDawn thanks for testing this for me much appreciated. I thought this may be the case shame the monitor can't do 1:1 pixel mapping with the 5x resolution. From what I understand 1200p is the max vertical output of the OSSC.

How does 5x with scanlines look on your monitor are they uneven?

I guess cave shmups from a 360 and scanline overlay at 480p or 720p would look nice with monitor scaling by intergers.

Yes, the monitor cannot do 1:1 pixel mapping. At first, that was a bit disappointing for me, as well; my previous Dell monitor had 1:1 mapping, so I just assumed that this one would have it, too. However, the 5x resolution with 1920x1080 is super sharp and, to me, is virtually indistinguishable from a pixel-perfect mapping. If you get very close to the picture you can see that the picture is a bit scaled, but at normal distances (30 to 50 cm) it's really not an issue.

Scanlines at 5x look great, in my opinion. No visible unevenness.

I have not tested a 360, so I cannot comment on that.

[neorichieb1971]

This looks like a great 27" candidate. If the compatibility is the same as the other Dell's.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dell-S2715H-Fu ... monitor+27

[Eretro86]

Yes, the monitor cannot do 1:1 pixel mapping. At first, that was a bit disappointing for me, as well; my previous Dell monitor had 1:1 mapping, so I just assumed that this one would have it, too. However, the 5x resolution with 1920x1080 is super sharp and, to me, is virtually indistinguishable from a pixel-perfect mapping. If you get very close to the picture you can see that the picture is a bit scaled, but at normal distances (30 to 50 cm) it's really not an issue.

Scanlines at 5x look great, in my opinion. No visible unevenness.

I have not tested a 360, so I cannot comment on that.

Thanks for the info much appreciated. I just wonder which consoles you use in 5x mode and how comes you don't use the 1200p mode it seems this would scale nicely 5 x 1.2 = 6 pixel.

[TillDawn]

Thanks for the info much appreciated. I just wonder which consoles you use in 5x mode and how comes you don't use the 1200p mode it seems this would scale nicely 5 x 1.2 = 6 pixel.

I guess I use 1920x1080 to be at the aspect ratio of the monitor; it has 2560x1440, i.e. 16:9, therefore I use the OSSC output resolution of 1920x1080. There is probably a trade-off here, because 240p does not scale nicely to 1080p. But, as I said, the picture is razor-sharp, so there is not much to be gained, anyway, and the correct aspect ratio is more important to me. At least that is how I understand this, I might be wrong...

So far, I have mainly used an RGB-modded PCEngine DUO-R, so this might be a special case. I only did some quick tests with other consoles; a Genesis, a Neo Geo CD, and a Saturn, I believe.

[H6rdc0re]

Does the VGA input support a component to VGA adapter. I have 2 component devices and don't want to buy a component switcher.

[ShadowofBob]

Does the VGA input support a component to VGA adapter. I have 2 component devices and don't want to buy a component switcher.

Yes, per the wiki it will accept the following.
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... _.28VGA.29

VGA/HD-15 input supports video in RGBHV, RGBS (pin 13), RGsB and YPbPr formats. RGBHV and RGBS modes require clean TTL-level sync signals and cannot extract sync from composite/luma. VGA input is best suited for high-quality input sources as video LPF functionality is limited (SCART and Component inputs are routed through a dedicated LPF chip). Therefore, it is generally recommended to connect older consoles and arcade boards to other inputs.

[H6rdc0re]

Does the VGA input support a component to VGA adapter. I have 2 component devices and don't want to buy a component switcher.

Yes, per the wiki it will accept the following.
http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?titl ... _.28VGA.29

VGA/HD-15 input supports video in RGBHV, RGBS (pin 13), RGsB and YPbPr formats. RGBHV and RGBS modes require clean TTL-level sync signals and cannot extract sync from composite/luma. VGA input is best suited for high-quality input sources as video LPF functionality is limited (SCART and Component inputs are routed through a dedicated LPF chip). Therefore, it is generally recommended to connect older consoles and arcade boards to other inputs.

Yes I already found it on the Videogameperfection website but thank you.

[Blair]

I haven't seen anybody post screenshots with 1080i content so I thought I'd give it a try, (since it's an interlaced signal it's a bit harder for me to capture, had to photograph a little bit off to the side to maintain focus) overall I think it came out pretty good and it looks really nice (especially in motion) one of my favorite fighting games from that era. (this is all being rendered in engine at 60fps, no FMV's)


OSSC+PlayStation 2 (RGsB)+GSM direct 1080i

(Display:Lacie Electron+E-More HDV M618 DAC)

[ZellSF]

I haven't seen anybody post screenshots with 1080i content so I thought I'd give it a try, (since it's an interlaced signal it's a bit harder for me to capture, had to photograph a little bit off to the side to maintain focus) overall I think it came out pretty good and it looks really nice (especially in motion) one of my favorite fighting games from that era. (this is all being rendered in engine at 60fps, no FMV's)


OSSC+PlayStation 2 (RGsB)+GSM direct 1080i

Two questions:

1: Are you actually getting RGsB output at 1080i? All GSM builds I've seen force YPBPR when using HDTV modes.

2: Why not 1080p?

[Blair]

Two questions:

1: Are you actually getting RGsB output at 1080i? All GSM builds I've seen force YPBPR when using HDTV modes.

2: Why not 1080p?

1. I'll have to check again, but when my ps2 is set to RGB it usually Default's to sync on Green with 480p and above resolutions.

2. I use 1080i and 960i on games that have the internal resolution halving bug, this game and a few others will get crazy jagged aliasing if set to a progressive output.

[bobrocks95]

2. I use 1080i and 960i on games that have the internal resolution halving bug, this game and a few others will get crazy jagged aliasing if set to a progressive output.

Just to clarify, what GSM is doing in those cases is effectively cutting the vertical resolution in half by taking one interlaced field and outputting it as a single progressive frame, instead of actually rendering in proper 480p.

[ApolloBoy]

Any updates on when the latest batch will ship? Bucko said he'd start shipping sometime this month so I'm starting to get a bit anxious...

[ZellSF]

Two questions:

1: Are you actually getting RGsB output at 1080i? All GSM builds I've seen force YPBPR when using HDTV modes.

2: Why not 1080p?

1. I'll have to check again, but when my ps2 is set to RGB it usually Default's to sync on Green with 480p and above resolutions.

2. I use 1080i and 960i on games that have the internal resolution halving bug, this game and a few others will get crazy jagged aliasing if set to a progressive output.

See, this confuses me: if I force 1080i or 960i on Dead or Alive 2 I get half vertical resolution. Is this a special trick that only works on CRT displays? Does the image look interlaced (flicker)? Can you try on a display that needs to deinterlace?

How does it differ from just using 480iX3 on the OSSC?

[Thomago]

https://twitter.com/VGPerfection/status ... 5800157185

[ApolloBoy]

https://twitter.com/VGPerfection/status ... 5800157185

Oh baby

[bobrocks95]

See, this confuses me: if I force 1080i or 960i on Dead or Alive 2 I get half vertical resolution. Is this a special trick that only works on CRT displays? Does the image look interlaced (flicker)? Can you try on a display that needs to deinterlace?

How does it differ from just using 480iX3 on the OSSC?

That's the opposite of the behavior I got on a plasma. 480p on certain games halved vertical res, 1080i looked fine, though my display had poor de-interlacing. I play PS2 on a CRT now given the huge number of 480i titles and the compatibility issues when forcing 480p.

[citrus3000psi]

Think I stumbled upon a bug in 1080i mode. If you choose RGsB with no active SOG it still works fine as if its using normal CSYNC.

[ZellSF]

See, this confuses me: if I force 1080i or 960i on Dead or Alive 2 I get half vertical resolution. Is this a special trick that only works on CRT displays? Does the image look interlaced (flicker)? Can you try on a display that needs to deinterlace?

How does it differ from just using 480iX3 on the OSSC?

That's the opposite of the behavior I got on a plasma. 480p on certain games halved vertical res, 1080i looked fine, though my display had poor de-interlacing.

If your plasma made a mess of the deinterlacing, how could you tell the image was linedoubled and no vertical resolution was lost?

I just can't seem to reproduce any of the successful results people are having with 960i (beyond it working for some games where FMVs crash at 480p) or 1080i. I'm wondering if I'm missing something.

[Keade]

https://twitter.com/VGPerfection/status ... 5800157185

Oh baby

"Can't wait"

[Blair]

See, this confuses me: if I force 1080i or 960i on Dead or Alive 2 I get half vertical resolution. Is this a special trick that only works on CRT displays? Does the image look interlaced (flicker)? Can you try on a display that needs to deinterlace?

well first off we should determine what version of Dead or Alive 2 ps2 you're using, if you're using the original US version I believe there is a progressive resolution patch that enables a native 480p mode. (every version does slightly different things with its video signal)

in the pictures I posted I'm using the final Japanese version of DOA2: Hard*Core the only one with the little star in the middle. it has some minor updates, including new cut scenes, a few new costumes, and a new turbo speed option. last time I checked it was not possible to emulate this version of the game with pcsx2 (but I think a Sony emulated version of DOA2: Hard*Core was made available on the Japanese PlayStation Network.), and no proper dumps exist. so I had to track down an original physical copy from Japan. there is a bit of interlaced flicker (true of any proper multiscan monitor) but it's not really that noticeable on this particular display (especially at 1080i).

once my new ps2 hard drive adapter gets here, I could retake these pictures (if I can scrounge up some free time) on my LCD and do a comparison between the Vp50, HD3000 and Samsung internal de-interlacing with GSM 1080i+OSSC 1.6

I just can't seem to reproduce any of the successful results people are having with 960i (beyond it working for some games where FMVs crash at 480p) or 1080i. I'm wondering if I'm missing something.

have you tried either the original or evolution version of Virtua fighter 4? they seem to work fairly well in 960i or 1080p. also grand theft auto San Andreas seems to work perfectly fine at 1080i.

[fafangus]

Anybody could advice me for an HDMI Matrix (1X4 or 2X4) that support OSSC line X5
Thanks ^^

[naz]

Hello, I've been reading the post but I still have a few questions (any input is appreciated):

1- Does the OSSC downscale from 480p to 240p??? (0,5x scaling) If not, would it ever be able to do this?? (the genius II or emotia are really expensive and/or rare to find).

2- Has anyone tested the OSSC with and old HD LCD (720p, which are really 768 pixels high)????. It seems to me it would be easier to only use 3x scaling on a and old HD tv than 4x or 5x on a full hd tv or 4k tv.

3- Does the 1.6 version have the 5 plugs for component (3 video plus 2 audio)??? I'm under the impression that it only has 3 inputs for video and a jack input for audio, this would need and adapter for the two left and right audio cables to one jack output in order to plug to the OSSC. Please correct me if I'm wrong (I have nice quality audio cables and don't want to use any adapters).

Regards

[Xer Xian]

@Fafangus: I think any hdmi switcher with 4K support should be fine. Not that 4K support is necessary, but it would guarantee a pixel clock that's (more than) high enough.

@Naz: reverse-order replies ^^

3) Any signal degradation due to the adapter should be unnoticeable, unless you have several thousands dollars worth of audio equipment

2) Neither the source material nor the OSSC care about the line multiplication factor - you're supposed to select the one that's closer to the native resolution of your display (and that's compatible with it, of course), so as to minimize the odds of crappy upscaling. So called "HD-ready" displays aren't going to be any better at displaying Linex3 than 1080p-native ones would be at Line5x. That said, I actually used to pair my OSSC with an old 1280x1024 LCD monitor and, while severely outdated with respect to today's standards, I did like the fact it could display Line4x240p and Line2x480p with no upscaling at all

1) Nope, it doesn't downscale. While this feature has been requested a few times already, it probably falls outside of the scope of the OSSC, since it's mainly intended to be used with digital displays with no 240p support. That said, it'd be great if it could be implemented someday - assuming it's feasible with the hardware specs, of course. But you know what would be even better? Support for both downscaling and frame doubling, so that it'd possible to enjoy no-emulation 240p@120Hz with real scanlines on 31kHz+ VGA monitors (but alas, this is 100% guaranteed to be unfeasible.. )

[Harrumph]

To elaborate on #2, a few 720p (ie 768) TVs have been reported, but only a small minority were actually compatible with Lx3 mode. Not sure how many ever tried with the "256 V.Active" trick though, which in theory should fit perfectly for such a screen.

[marqs]

1- Does the OSSC downscale from 480p to 240p??? (0,5x scaling) If not, would it ever be able to do this?? (the genius II or emotia are really expensive and/or rare to find).

Ideal source for line halving would have an even number of lines unlike standard 525-line "480p". 480p->240p conversion using OSSC hw is still possible but implementation would be somewhat impractical. You would need to fix sampling rate to a multiple (preferably even) of 262 or 263 for valid output timing, e.g. 4*262=1048 samples X 525 lines -> 2100 clocks * 262 lines.

[naz]

Thanks for the replies, on a following question:

Tv height resolutions are:

HD -> 720 or 768 pixels
Full HD -> 1080 pixels
4k -> 2160 pixels

But when using the ossc for a 480p signal you get an image height of:

1x -> 480 pixels
2x -> 960 pixels (only available I think)
3x -> 1440 pixels
4x -> 1920 pixels
5x -> 2400 pixels

There is no integer scaling that matches a tv vertical height, meaning there will be some soften no matter what. So I was thinking if the following configuration does exist (or if would make sense for it to exist on the OSSC):

Apply a 2x scaling only to even numbers row (which will produce a 720 pixel height image) and then darken this added row to became a scanline. This will work with a HD tv and a 4k tv as an integer image.

The end result might not be for everyone, but I think it would look pretty cool.

Regards!

[Guspaz]

You've described a 1.5x scale, and that's not going to look very good...

I've simulated this as you've described it, via the following steps:

1) Took a random 1:1 pixel screenshot of a 480p game I found online
2) Did a nearest-neighbour 1.5x vertical scale (to simulate the described line doubling)
3) Did a bilinear 1.5x horizontal scale (to simulate the line stretch the OSSC would do)
4) Made a scanline overlay where every third line was blanked out and aligned it to the image

Original:


Scaled with described algorithm:


Regular OSSC 4x simulation on 1080p display (2x integer scale followed by bilinear scale to 1080p):

[BuckoA51]

Here we go again with the internet obsession with integer scaling