Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[Squire Grooktook]

A bit of a tip: the dual Astaroth fight is completely static, once you know the pattern you can do the same thing every time regardless of weapon. Checkpoint or save state practice recommended.

[FinalBaton]

If this thread seems like an echo chamber to you, I suggest reading it from the start.

That's a great point I forgot in my post. There were a ton of posts already in this thread when I arrived last year (and I have yet to read them), and other threads on the site also have been discussing these games for years.

[__SKYe]

A bit of a tip: the dual Astaroth fight is completely static, once you know the pattern you can do the same thing every time regardless of weapon.

Ah, thanks. I only fought them maybe 5 or 6 times, so I've yet to form any viable strategy.
I'll play some more later (or tomorrow), and we'll see.

Checkpoint or save state practice recommended.

I can go without save states, but credit feeding, yes, it's very useful.
If I restarted from stage 1 anytime I got a game over, I'd never get the 1CC.

[Vludi]

I'd recommend save-states better, checkpoint practice means you will practice only at low rank.

[Vanguard]

Never did like CVIII any where near as much as the original. It's longer than I like, stage quality is inconsistent, and the bosses never reach the level of quality of CV1's Death and Dracula 1 fights. The falling block segment is especially painful to the point where I almost never touch Alucard's path. I also think character switching is a bad mechanic in general and choosing a character at the beginning of a stage almost always works better. Give me lonly wolf mode any day.

BIL's stories have kindled an interest in trying for a 2-ALL one of these days though.

people in this thread want to consume constant praise, but not often criticism. it's a little stale to exclusively be positive and never challenge the quo and can turn a thread into an echo chamber.

What baseless nonsense.

[Squire Grooktook]

Now now.


I'll admit, I prefer my threads to be more celebratory than harsh, but neither do I ask a safe space. I'd rather read about why someone likes a game I dislike then vice versa, but both positivity and negativity have their places.

That being said (and keep in mind, I haven't been reading much of the CV3 debate, so this is more of a general statement than aimed at anyone particularly), I believe that many of the games discussed here are almost impossible to be called "bad". Games like Contra Hard Corps, CV3, etc. might have their rougher edges, but they tick almost all the fundamental boxes of game design. I've never felt the praise for CV3, but at the same time I respect it. The question is not "are they good" but rather "how good are they" to which there is a massive spectrum of answers.

For reference, a while back there was an argument about another game that I feel similarly middling about: Mushihimesama. I dislike almost everything about the game, it's pattern design, it's scoring mechanics, etc. but when someone called the game outright bad, I remember thinking how absurd that statement was.

It has:

>No intertia or any euroshmup garbage
>Consistent arcade structure
>Varied patterns that don't go on forever like some euroshmup/kusoge garbage
>Can't safe spot through bosses or stages like some euroshmup/kusoge garbage
>Even difficulty balance
>Some depth to the scoring mechanics
>Multiple difficulties and modes (not an essential fundamental but an example of going above and beyond the call of duty)

No matter how you feel about the style of it all, it is a game that conforms to the fundamentals of the genre. And I believe that applies here. Vitriol may be applied to kusoge, but I don't believe games that fundamentally work and are playable deserve to be called outright trash. I feel such statement are best reserved for stuff like Bubsy 3d, then anything else.

-

Anyway, my personal series ranking:


Akumajo Dracula x68

Perfect in every way. Incredibly tight pacing and mechanics. Rng laden footsies combat everywhere. Varied level and boss gimmicks that function as extensions of the games fundamentals driven combat rather than distractions from it, etc. This game is perfect and an absolute beast.


Bloodlines

While x68 rocks out the fundamentals, Bloodlines brings the flash with its more hyperactive mechanics. The new i-frame moves, light/heavy strikes, item-crushes, and perfect play power ups work wonderfully with bosses and stages that are a joy to blaze through as fast as possible, assault course style. Solid amount of rng too, so that's a plus.


Castlevania 1

First two stages are a bit trivial, but overall well paced and ends with three of the greatest rng driven boss fights in the world (if not cheesed). Stage design is overall good enough. Decent enough amount of rng there, though probably fairly easily trivialized (on first loop at least).


Rondo

A bit too easy, much to its detriment, but one of the most varied cast of footsies driven mid-tier enemies around. Doesn't have the same thrash happy extra mechanics as Bloodlines, so it can't be played quite as agressively, but it's still similarly fun to blaze through. Wonderful, inimitable sense of style as well.


Castlevania 3

Roughly same level as CV1 in terms of level design, but longer, less rng, and no highpoints that strike as furiously as the last three boss fights in that game. Overall, I have a hard time choosing this over CV1 when I want to play a nes CV.


Castlevania 4

Some okay platforming, but waaaaay too fucking long and filled with useless dps race bosses (except a few late game encounters). Cool aesthetic (as usual) and neat speed run tech tho


XX

Cement Shoes No Densetsu

[kitten]

I think the reason there's not a metric ton of negative stuff said in here(although there certainly is some well deserved bits here and there for sure) is because we like to discuss the best games for each system. I genuinely think that's the only reason why there's not loads of negative stuff said. If we were to tackle a whole game console library, you can bet the negative reviews would increase tenfold

Excellent point. Lame games like Alien 3 take a lot out of me and I'm sure others. Every day one step nearer the grave, so yeah, let's totally do an anthology of early 90s licensed Eurosidescrollers! Or fucking not lmao

this is pretty illustrative of what i'm talking about - my suggestion to be more critical is met with "why would we talk a bunch about bad games - we talk about good games here." mentally considering criticism and especially expanded critique to be reserved for bad things or to somehow require more effort/cause more of drain of energy/emotion than praise (rather than equal) is exactly the kind of problem nearly every forum runs into, but wants to think they're uniquely immune to the detriments of. imo, detailed criticism can be casual, healthy, recreational and natural, but there is a priority to defend the game, almost as if it's a person with feelings - even when you agree that the game is a mixed bag with occasionally poor stages. you even phrased it as "course correction" when my intent is "healthy discussion." less to divert minds to exactly my type of thinking and more to acknowledge, discuss, and deconstruct fault. you concede fault exists, but don't really want to talk about that, and most of your effort is spent convincing me the game is great in spite of it. it's fine to believe that, fine to convince me of it through good conversation, which i appreciate - but what i take issue with is the lack of expounding on the concession, like the threat of weakening CVIII/AD's reputation is too great and the gain from looking deep at its faults, negligible.

that or you just think it's fucking boring to talk about that, but i mean come on, it would be good conversation :E

What baseless nonsense.

the thread opens on a brutal lashing of someone who didn't like ninja gaiden with pretty little expounding on ninja gaiden's faults (which i read before joining), and most every page is filled with 90% positive things said about games, i don't think i'm being particularly ridiculous. i was kind of brought into discussing ninja gaiden when i'd initially been avoiding it, too - by someone dragging out an offsite opinion from somewhere i'd explicitly and carefully asked for respect of privacy of. at that point, i felt i had to defend myself, but i received very little concession that the game had a reputation of known issues that it's still loved over until after/as i'd turned around on it, and even then, that was pretty much only explained by BIL. it felt slightly as if my head was being straightened before i was let known people still think it's rough and consider that ancillary to its perceived action excellence, like saying that beforehand would weaken the argument or perceived strength of the game.

i openly admitted that despite love for dynamite batman, that 3-1 was unforgivable and the game was pretty flawed well before bil's turnaround on it. i feel that there might not have even been a turnaround if i had shrugged off its faults and instead sold it purely on its strengths. likewise, i think i'd have turned around on ninja gaiden much quicker and presented my opinions on CV3/AD much less defensively with a few more concessions/details on its faults.

[Sumez]

I'm not seeing any brutal lashings. I absolutely agree this thread should be open to criticisms, which it has always been, but obviously if you criticize a great game, be prepared to have your arguments countered.

I love CV1 and completely do not mind that people prefer it to CV3 (in fact I often see CV1 being the underappreciated one), but lashing out on the latter's artwork despite looking mostly the same feels pretty pointless to me.
It's kind of interesting that you felt more of a lash out when people defended games they like, rather than when I for example criticized Dynamite Batman.

I think I mentioned earlier that there are around five or so games that all share my top spot as "favourite nes title". Akumajou Densetsu is one. Coincidentally, Mega Man 3 and Ninja Gaiden are two of the others. These games are rare, I'm not just being positive about anything.

[kitten]

It's kind of interesting that you felt more of a lash out when people defended games they like, rather than when I for example criticized Dynamite Batman.

imo everyone is free to dislike inanimate things openly. i didn't think your criticisms of dynamite batman were particularly unfair, even if they were harsh (i pretty much only took issue with your usage of the word "objective" lol). imo, my thinking the game is great can coexist with your thinking the game is shit and i don't care super deeply about how the thread perceives it, i just wanted to make a case for it to be given a chance to a few of ya'll.

i don't think my criticisms of cv3 are unfair, either. i don't think the bg art is horrible, just bizarrely amateur considering the context of late-famicom konami working with a massive amount of cart space.

[Sumez]

I don't think it's wrong of you to criticize CV3 even if I disagree with most of it, either. I don't hope I that I gave that impression.

For the record, here's the five NES games that share my list of most treasured titles on the platform:

Mega Man 3 (and 4)
Ninja Gaiden
Castlevania 3
Gimmick!
Super Mario Bros. 3

Contra and Castlevania 1 are really close runner-ups.
You still have SMB3 and Gimmick left to pull apart . Somehow I doubt you'll be doing the latter.

[Blinge]

i don't think my criticisms of cv3 are unfair, either. i don't think the bg art is horrible, just bizarrely amateur considering the context of late-famicom konami working with a massive amount of cart space.

Nitpicking to this degree only happens when you're actively looking for more ammo to rant with, I reckon.
I would never notice this stuff when playing a game. Hell, to me I'd just ignore it entirely cause I don't expect anything amazing looking from a damn NES game..

Theme of Kitten :3

[Sumez]

Gimmick, Mega Man 6, Kirby, and SMB3 are all examples of NES games that I do think look amazing.

I already said this, but I think both Castlevania 1 and 3 are pretty ugly (although decently serviceable), so I don't really think criticizing the graphcis is even relevant. The brown main character sprites especially seems like a waste. Would it be terrible to spend two sprite palettes on the one object you have to look at the entire game?
Oh crap, now I did it myself.

[Vanguard]

the thread opens on a brutal lashing of someone who didn't like ninja gaiden with pretty little expounding on ninja gaiden's faults (which i read before joining), and most every page is filled with 90% positive things said about games, i don't think i'm being particularly ridiculous. i was kind of brought into discussing ninja gaiden when i'd initially been avoiding it, too - by someone dragging out an offsite opinion from somewhere i'd explicitly and carefully asked for respect of privacy of. at that point, i felt i had to defend myself, but i received very little concession that the game had a reputation of known issues that it's still loved over until after/as i'd turned around on it, and even then, that was pretty much only explained by BIL. it felt slightly as if my head was being straightened before i was let known people still think it's rough and consider that ancillary to its perceived action excellence, like saying that beforehand would weaken the argument or perceived strength of the game.

The thread opens with extremely gentle criticism of someone who blamed Ninja Gaiden for his own shortcomings as a player. You're allowed to dislike Ninja Gaiden or Daimakaimura or any of the thread's other sacred cows and no one will have a problem with it. I don't think anyone here denies the flaws in their favorite games, or forbids mentioning them or whatever. Personally, I come here to discuss games I'm interested in playing. I don't really care whether Castlevania 2 is worse than Dracula XX because neither is worth my time. Most of the games I post about here are going to be games I like, and typically I'm gonna have more good things than bad things to say about those. I assume that the same is true for most others here.

[Perikles]

This seems like the ideal opportunity to ask y'all what you think of Earthworm Jim. I just used the search function and wasn't surprised to find barely a post that actually discusses the game itself, it shares the fate of some of its other brethren that where immensely popular during that time period only to wane into obscurity as time went on.

Having said that, it's one of these titles I revisit every few years, always regaling it (the MD version to be precise; it has an additional stage over the SNES version, more of those whimsical dictums ("Wham!"), more idle animations, some of the tracks sound much better as far as I'm concerned (Use your Head in particular, it also plays more often during a run) and there's no "load time" during stages - funnily enough, there's one sound effect on the SNES that is not present on the MD when you hit Professor Monkey-for-a-Head; not that fond of the additional content of the Mega CD version).

There's no doubt that a lot of that enjoyment stems from the combination of whacky atmosphere and outstanding technical quality regarding said graphics, I do think that the actual game is good fun, as well, though, if not as airtight as some of the arcade-like titles that usually are mentioned here. Its greatest strength (many unique vignettes) is also its biggest weakness for the challenge lies in figuring these out the first time, usually demanding one optimal solution that is not terribly difficult to pull off. One could very well call this static, and understandably so. Some of the sections that move at a determined/relatively slow pace (especially the section where you're inside the steel cage, shooting amoebas) can be a bit boring, other vaudeville pieces (Snot a Problem) are not terribly engaging to begin with.

Despite all that, the platforming moreso than the action is uncompromisingly solid, with a surprisingly agile protagonist that climbs onto steep hurdles with ease and flings himself forwards with the snarl of his very own head. It is quite satisfying to blast through the stages after knowing them, you don't have to overcome bad controls or questionable design choices which is most certainly not the norm with these anthropomorphic platformers. Sure, since there isn't that much in the way of belligerent enemies outside of the final stage (most threats are related to environments/traps), that's not necessarily saying all that much. On the other hand, the game clearly never was build to be another Contra, it knows exactly what it wants to achieve and with which means.


What's the consensus here? I would heartily recommend listening to this amazing rendition of the track Intestinal Distress in any case, even if you don't like the game at all!

[soprano1]

I say the game is pretty groovy.

[kitten]

Nitpicking to this degree only happens when you're actively looking for more ammo to rant with, I reckon.
I would never notice this stuff when playing a game. Hell, to me I'd just ignore it entirely cause I don't expect anything amazing looking from a damn NES game..

Theme of Kitten :3

i really and seriously think about most other games' art to the same degree, it's just akumajou densetsu is held in pretty high regard, and thus more of a subject of complaint. i own over 300 nes/fc games and it is by far my favorite console, and i care about art in old games a whole lot. read my lickle review if you think i don't mentally nitpick every game like this. i don't have some sort of unusual axe to grind with AD's art, this commentary is extremely normal, for me.

here, to quote myself from a few pages back -

kitten, wow, you sure are bitching and moaning a lot! do i need to get you a fucking bottle and burp your dumb ass?

yeah idk it's my thing.

that's me, talking to me. i realize i complain and criticize a lot, but man is it easy for those complaints and criticism to get seen as some sort of dangerous smear and have people act defensively over their favorite being talked down. to be extremely clear: i do not hate castlevania 3. i mostly just find it boring and inferior to cv1. i'm not out to convince the rest of the thread to think my way, but to maybe partially vent and mostly engage in open conversation about the faults i perceive. i feel like talking about faults - even in your favorites - is very important. here, for example - mega man 2 is probably in my top 20 games of all time, right? and for someone as critically oriented as me, that's an extremely high level of praise. pages back, i rail pretty hard on how bad the wily stages are and how wily stage 4 is an unforgivable mess that the game would immediately improved with it taken out - not replaced, just removed. same page, i complain quite a bit about a variety of mega man games - games i deeply adore and have played to highly competent levels (including briefly being speedrun champ of mega man 9). i could go on futher about the visual weakness in 2's wily stages, too.

in my opinion, people shit-talking mega man 2 typically does not bother me, even though i likely hold it in higher regard than anyone in this thread does castlevania III. i will politely disagree on most fronts, but i adamantly believe in dismantling your idols and understanding what they do wrong. in fact, i enjoyed talking about its faults! casually! there's concession cvIII does things wrong in this thread, and i like to hear from enthusiasts what's wrong with their favorite - however, people almost always view criticism of their favorite media as some kind of attack or threat, and are typically much more sensitive about admitting their problems. even with most of my favorites, i have a few faults ready to concede and discuss, and ideas on how they could have been executed better, usually using examples of what i consider finer design.

I don't think anyone here denies the flaws in their favorite games, or forbids mentioning them or whatever.

there is a definite resistance to discussing the faults of sacred cows (whoo, am i glad you said this first and not me) on here, though, that i really do not think can be denied. the faults often go unacknowledged and without discussion, and suggestion that one might be perceiving the overall quality of a game as lower because of them tends to set off a defensiveness that makes extracting these concessions more difficult. i think this does either lead to blind spots or overall stagnant discussion/growth. i desire to grow and learn, and this often comes from reevaluation or deeper evaluation of landmark titles like these. imo, opening up to talk about what you love having issues can be extremely fun, healthy, and relaxing. i would absolutely not suggest others do it without going by my own example, as i believe i've indicated i do above.

[BIL]

this is pretty illustrative of what i'm talking about - my suggestion to be more critical is met with "why would we talk a bunch about bad games - we talk about good games here." mentally considering criticism and especially expanded critique to be reserved for bad things or to somehow require more effort/cause more of drain of energy/emotion than praise (rather than equal) is exactly the kind of problem nearly every forum runs into, but wants to think they're uniquely immune to the detriments of.

Again, you are simply ignorant if you think this thread has ever shied away from pointing out flaws wherever they exist, no matter how beloved the game in question may be. I'm sorry, there's just no other way to put it. You're spouting ignorance and now I'm back on thread cleanup duty.

imo, detailed criticism can be casual, healthy, recreational and natural, but there is a priority to defend the game, almost as if it's a person with feelings - even when you agree that the game is a mixed bag with occasionally poor stages. you even phrased it as "course correction" when my intent is "healthy discussion." less to divert minds to exactly my type of thinking and more to acknowledge, discuss, and deconstruct fault. you concede fault exists, but don't really want to talk about that, and most of your effort is spent convincing me the game is great in spite of it. it's fine to believe that, fine to convince me of it through good conversation, which i appreciate - but what i take issue with is the lack of expounding on the concession, like the threat of weakening CVIII/AD's reputation is too great and the gain from looking deep at its faults, negligible.

Er - where'd I try to convince you CVIII is "great?" Or convince you of anything at all? I specifically said it's a personal favourite that comes with a stern caveat regarding its grab bag of stages and characters. And that for my ballin', CV1 knife-only 2-ALLin' needs, its loop provides an engaging challenge when properly routed.

You talk about "hurt feelings," and you consider this some sort of strong-arming attempt on my part? Glass houses bub.

that or you just think it's fucking boring to talk about that, but i mean come on, it would be good conversation :E

TBH I found your AD posts overlong and, regarding the game's autoscrolling, heavily overblown. I can sum it up thus: CV1 is short and tight. CV3 is big and loose, with autoscrolling. A decent amount of material can be spun from there without getting into textwall extremes.

the thread opens on a brutal lashing of someone who didn't like ninja gaiden with pretty little expounding on ninja gaiden's faults (which i read before joining),

More nonsense. I've even explained to you precisely why that particular debate started up. If some bumbling idiot starts claiming input lag or dropped frames where they don't exist, I'm afraid it's no longer a touchy-feely crunchy controls debate! To borrow your tack: those criticisms will become useless at times when they are needed.

So no, Edmond wasn't "lashed." Edmond was corrected and sulked off. Boohoo. Don't worry, he went on to cement his rep for crazy antics in Little Annoyed Hell.

and most every page is filled with 90% positive things said about games, i don't think i'm being particularly ridiculous.

If you don't like the thread, leave. I'm serious - it's what I'd do, and have done many times on the internet over the years. See why I used the term "course correction?" Alternatively you can stick around and act all hurt when others comment on your commentary. Either is fine.

i was kind of brought into discussing ninja gaiden when i'd initially been avoiding it, too - by someone dragging out an offsite opinion from somewhere i'd explicitly and carefully asked for respect of privacy of. at that point, i felt i had to defend myself, but i received very little concession that the game had a reputation of known issues that it's still loved over until after/as i'd turned around on it, and even then, that was pretty much only explained by BIL. it felt slightly as if my head was being straightened before i was let known people still think it's rough and consider that ancillary to its perceived action excellence, like saying that beforehand would weaken the argument or perceived strength of the game.

Honestly, nobody would've cared a jot if you'd never discussed NG1 ever, even after "the shocking reveal." We're not a feels thread, or a cult. As with Edmond, I only deigned to respond because I thought you were badly mischaracterising aspects of the game, its respawning and ledge guarding in particular.

You yourself foretold an eventual "butting of heads" re: NG1 well before Immyr quoted your backlog, and I kinda groaned and hoped you'd not bother because frankly I find theorypost nerdfights incredibly boring.

i openly admitted that despite love for dynamite batman, that 3-1 was unforgivable and the game was pretty flawed well before bil's turnaround on it. i feel that there might not have even been a turnaround if i had shrugged off its faults and instead sold it purely on its strengths. likewise, i think i'd have turned around on ninja gaiden much quicker and presented my opinions on CV3/AD much less defensively with a few more concessions/details on its faults.

Actually, it was more your pointing out DB's short, punchy sequencing that convinced me to just squash 3-1's kusoge design via brute memorisation so I could enjoy the surrounding game. If you'd not mentioned that I'd have put it off another year.

there is a definite resistance to discussing the faults of sacred cows (whoo, am i glad you said this first and not me) on here, though, that i really do not think can be denied. the faults often go unacknowledged and without discussion, and suggestion that one might be perceiving the overall quality of a game as lower because of them tends to set off a defensiveness that makes extracting these concessions more difficult. i think this does either lead to blind spots or overall stagnant discussion/growth. i desire to grow and learn, and this often comes from reevaluation or deeper evaluation of landmark titles like these. imo, opening up to talk about what you love having issues can be extremely fun, healthy, and relaxing. i would absolutely not suggest others do it without going by my own example, as i believe i've indicated i do above.

See first point. You're talking from pure ignorance here.

Also, I think it's important to note - "critique" is not a suit of armour. If your critique hinges on rickety observations it's just as harmful as blind praise, and just as deserving of refutation. If someone says Alien Soldier plays like Punch Out, I'm gonna nerdstomp them because I actually bought Punch Out expecting Alien Soldier and got nothing of the sort.

[kitten]

If you don't like the thread, leave. I'm serious - it's what I'd do, and have done many times on the internet over the years. See why I used the term "course correction?" Alternatively you can stick around and act all hurt when others comment on your commentary. Either is fine.

eh, it's not so much i dislike the thread, there are some great posts and good posters in here and i've appreciated your commentary a lot.

anyway - and i mean this as sincerely and genuinely as possible - i had a lot of fun, tried a few new games, gained some new perspective. i have no hard feelings. i hope ya'll had some fun with me around, too, but i'll pack my bags, rather than get further embroiled.

[Squire Grooktook]

Nah don't go. We appreciate the activity you've brought to this thread.

This is why I don't like drama though. Everyone should just be chill and get along~

[BIL]

eh, it's not so much i dislike the thread, there are some great posts and good posters in here and i've appreciated your commentary a lot.

anyway - and i mean this as sincerely and genuinely as possible - i had a lot of fun, tried a few new games, gained some new perspective. i have no hard feelings. i hope ya'll had some fun with me around, too, but i'll pack my bags, rather than get further embroiled.

Ok. ;3 (I'll let you know how I get along with Batman TAS, tbh I'd have bought it by now if it weren't non-JP! shameless cardboard hound that I am, dohoho...)

[Vludi]

This seems like the ideal opportunity to ask y'all what you think of Earthworm Jim. I just used the search function and wasn't surprised to find barely a post that actually discusses the game itself, it shares the fate of some of its other brethren that where immensely popular during that time period only to wane into obscurity as time went on.

Having said that, it's one of these titles I revisit every few years, always regaling it (the MD version to be precise; it has an additional stage over the SNES version, more of those whimsical dictums ("Wham!"), more idle animations, some of the tracks sound much better as far as I'm concerned (Use your Head in particular, it also plays more often during a run) and there's no "load time" during stages - funnily enough, there's one sound effect on the SNES that is not present on the MD when you hit Professor Monkey-for-a-Head; not that fond of the additional content of the Mega CD version).

There's no doubt that a lot of that enjoyment stems from the combination of whacky atmosphere and outstanding technical quality regarding said graphics, I do think that the actual game is good fun, as well, though, if not as airtight as some of the arcade-like titles that usually are mentioned here. Its greatest strength (many unique vignettes) is also its biggest weakness for the challenge lies in figuring these out the first time, usually demanding one optimal solution that is not terribly difficult to pull off. One could very well call this static, and understandably so. Some of the sections that move at a determined/relatively slow pace (especially the section where you're inside the steel cage, shooting amoebas) can be a bit boring, other vaudeville pieces (Snot a Problem) are not terribly engaging to begin with.

Despite all that, the platforming moreso than the action is uncompromisingly solid, with a surprisingly agile protagonist that climbs onto steep hurdles with ease and flings himself forwards with the snarl of his very own head. It is quite satisfying to blast through the stages after knowing them, you don't have to overcome bad controls or questionable design choices which is most certainly not the norm with these anthropomorphic platformers. Sure, since there isn't that much in the way of belligerent enemies outside of the final stage (most threats are related to environments/traps), that's not necessarily saying all that much. On the other hand, the game clearly never was build to be another Contra, it knows exactly what it wants to achieve and with which means.


What's the consensus here? I would heartily recommend listening to this amazing rendition of the track Intestinal Distress in any case, even if you don't like the game at all!

I think EJW while not achieving the technical level of other action games is solid, the levels are varied and interesting with level design that is well put together, especially in platforming/semi-exploration. EWJ2 in comparison was a bit too gimmicky imo and the levels had a slower pace, but it has its moments.

[FinalBaton]

Nah don't go. We appreciate the activity you've brought to this thread.

This

and have people act defensively over their favorite being talked down.

yet when people counter your counter-arguments, you become extremely defensive. See the irony here?

It's absolutely unfair to say that people "become defensive" towards your arguments, when you yourself become just(if not more) defensive when people counter yours. So you're acting the same as the people you're aiming at here.

IMO you're not above us when critiquing games; you're in the crunch, right there with us

If your opinion is non-popular here, then just prepare yourself to take on the counter-attacks, and that's it. Of course if you paint a negative view of a popular game, you'll hear about it(btw the overall critical judgment on here is very sharp, your claims of skewed judgment is offensive).

But most important of all : don't get bothered by it. Get a thick skin. At the end of the day it's just internet discussions, so there's no need to flip out.

[BIL]

Missed something important earlier:

Give me lonly wolf mode any day.

It so warms my heart when people spell Lonly Wolf correctly.

(anyone who doesn't get it: I order you to play Shock Troopers immediately! Do it, or be brutally lashed. )

[soprano1]

Christ, one more good poster gone...

[__SKYe]

Been playing Daimakaimura a bit more, and enjoying it even more by the minute.

It took a little bit to adjust to Arthur's single jump, as opposed to Cho's double jump, because I was used to have Cho's double jump as a defensive manuever, allowing me to avoid dangerous spots by using the 2nd jump.

Another thing I had to got used to, is that you can't jump from the very edges of platforms, otherwise Arthur will fall out of them. This is in no way a flaw, I just got too used to play NG (and the like), and it took a while to shift into Dai's playstyle.

Despite this, Arthur controls really nicely. Even with the strict, committed jump, he has fantastic movement, and the ability to fire up and down really make for a much more flowing playstyle.
Unlike the first (and Cho) were you'd have to stop and duck/jump to kill enemies either above or below, in Dai, you can just run along, and Jump+Down+Attack to quickly kill enemies below without stopping, or Jump+Up+Attack to quickly kill enemies above.

I really enjoy this kind of non-stop playstyle, as it reminds me of the equally very nice NG playstyle.

Another thing I was surprised to notice, is that much like NG, enemies continue to spawn if you stand at certain points (like on Stage 2, after the Red Arremer, on the start of the falling platforms, where the fire birds first appear).
It's not instant spawning like in NG, but enemies will continue to appear as long as you stay in the spot were they appear.
I may be horribly mistaken though, but I really got that impression.

So far, I can go through level 1 nicely, and part of level 2.
There's still an element of surprise on the turtles (in the start of stage 2), and although I rarely lose a life there, often times, I'll lose the armour. The Red Arremer is also still a challenge, but I learned that, if I continue to run until the next checkpoint, even if I die against him, I can avoid him on the next life.
It's cheap, and un-manly, but for now it'll do.

I still have to play the later stages more, but they pose quite a bit of trouble so far.

On a different note, I've been playing the JP arcade version, and was surprised that the default difficulty is Level 2.
Also, are the chests were the magicians appear, static (ie. do they always contain magicians), or they just have a really low probability of having a weapon/armour? Because I find that there's an awful high number of them throughout the game, and only a very small number of chest contain anything else.

Sorry if you've answered/discussed this before, but this thread moves so fast, I have trouble finding this game's discussion posts.

Nah don't go. We appreciate the activity you've brought to this thread.

I second this as well.
Don't go away Kitty, it's fun having you around.

Christ, one more good poster gone...

Nah, I have faith Kitty will remain in the Squad.

[FinalBaton]

Nah, I have faith Kitty will remain in the Squad.

Hopefully she will

[BIL]

Kitten's welcome back any time, and that mugshot is going nowhere. You're out when I let you out soldier.

However, having re-read the last few pages (exams this month have me rushing, and this little episode completely blindsided me besides), I'm not sure what could be done to avert further discord. Apparently "I like Mega Man 2 but its fourth Wily stage is bad" is a calibre of critical insight simply unheard of here.

[FinalBaton]

I'm not sure what could be done to avert further discord.

true. It's bound to happen again if she stays in the same state of mind as she's been in the last 2 pages.
For the record I did find the accusations of "you people on here can't give a critical look to a game" really offensive to my intelligence, and not true at all.

I think my second to last post points pretty well at how she should tweak her view of the forum and the way she takes retorts

[__SKYe]

Kitten's welcome back any time, and that mugshot is going nowhere. You're out when I let you out soldier. Image

However, having re-read the last few pages (exams this month have me rushing, and this little episode completely blindsided me besides), I'm not sure what could be done to avert further discord. Apparently "I like Mega Man 2 but its fourth Wily stage is bad" is a calibre of critical insight simply unheard of here.

Oh yes, absolutely, but these kinds of discussions aside, I honestly enjoy Kitten's input and overall presence here, so I really hope she comes back.

Onto my Daimakaimura quest, I managed to reach Stage 3 on one credit, but got a game over there, After continuing, managed to get beat Level 3 in a single life, but got another (or several) game over on stage 4.

I can more or less go through stage 4's initial part (the crystal cave), and the ice platforms, but I still lose lives often on the vines part just after them. Several of the lives are for getting hit with a rogue projectile. But I'm getting better here, and it feels as I'm getting a good grasp on this part.
On the ice platforms for instance, one thing I quickly found out (it's not too hard to figure it out, though ), is that when you attack, Arrthur stops, so you can really control your descent by attacking, even if you don't have to kill anything. I also learned to be especially careful with not getting too close to the hand enemies, because they are 1HKO (something I learned the hard way).
overall, I got this part pretty much down pat, but there's always the occasional death.

The boss on the other hand, is pretty tough. I don't know if there's a particular effective technique, but I can't keep shoting on the same weakpoint (the heart/flesh thing, whatever it is), because it stops bulging (and therefore takes no damage), so I'm forced to run around waiting for them to bulge.
Obviously, I still need more practice here, so perhaps the strategy will come with it.

Anyway, I'll play some more and post my progress accordingly.

[BIL]

On a different note, I've been playing the JP arcade version, and was surprised that the default difficulty is Level 2.
Also, are the chests were the magicians appear, static (ie. do they always contain magicians), or they just have a really low probability of having a weapon/armour? Because I find that there's an awful high number of them throughout the game, and only a very small number of chest contain anything else.

Japan version (or a port based on it, like Capcom Generation 2's) is the way to go - the World and US "Ghouls n' Ghosts" versions are progressively easier, toning down the enemy spawn frequency and aggression, lowering boss HP, and giving more generous chests + checkpoints. Easier isn't necessarily inferior, of course, but the relentlessly encroaching chaos is really the game's defining feature imo, and it's in full force in JP.

Regarding the chests, I am *fairly* sure their contents are not set, but work on a queue. EG, in stage 1, the first will contain a magician, then the next a gold armour, and the third a weapon. As soon as the stage starts, run to the left edge to reveal the chest, open it and kill the magician, then proceed right. The chest that appears on the small hill will contain armour. If you didn't go left for that first chest, you'll get the magician here instead.

Others here like Squire, Vludi, Sumez and Ex_Mosquito are far more knowledgeable than me so I'll let them fill in the details. I think losing your armour affects things too, pretty sure chests won't spawn gold armour if you're in your drawers. :3