From Software 'n such

[FinalBaton]

Just the usual warning for new Demon's Souls players, as the one thing that tends to put a lot of people off is that this isn't really communicated well...

From close to the beginning of the game you can go to a number of different areas, which are like the "stages" of the game. However, while it's easy to believe you're expected to take them ones at a time (and nothing is stopping you from doing that aside from absurd difficulty spikes), it is much more approachable to move on to the next area once you've reached the next boss of the previous one. So you'd go 1-1-, 2-1, 3-1, etc. until you do 1-2, 2-2, and so on.
It does get easier to jump a bit more around in the order of things as you get more powered up, and more experienced with the game, and it usually does pay off to go and explore areas that would otherwise seem a bit too tough for you for now - just know that you can always go try having a go at another area if the current one feels too tough.

And never take dying as a setback. You always get to keep stuff you picked up, and as for your souls, you can always get new ones. The game is really lenient in that regard.

Thanks!

Yeah I've read before starting that you need to advance all stages at once : when you hit a wall in one stage, get out and try to progress abit in all the other ones and come back later etc. advance them all little by little.

I definitely don't get too hung up when I die! I think I have the right mindset. as you've said, you just loose some currency, it's really no big deal! I don't let it stop me from sometimes going to a different stage after dying (which means : not regaining my souls). Unless I had a ton of souls, but I don't let that happen as I spend them pretty regularly.

So far it is going well, and I'm having a frickin' blast! I'm hooked. It's been a while since I've been that much nto a game.

The game visually looks really cool to me. Maybe it's because I don't play much modern games and am more easily impressionable? I play the game on a 720p plasma set (the best display that I've ever seen for 720p sources, looks awesome, even has a bit of a CRT-phosphor feel to the picture, and super deep blacks) and it looks so gorgeous to me.

[Blinge]

Haha that reminds me of when Skyrim's graphics blew me away.. when i started playing it 5 years after it came out.

Well Demon's really nailed its aesthetic I think. It kinda.. glows.

Sumez' advice is great and all but Boletaria Palace 2 or 1-2 is worth trying early imo!
How far in are you Mr. Baton? Any stand out moments?

Ahh I remember the good old days of first trying DeS as a Temple Knight, fat rolling in 2011, giving up for several months and declaring the game to be 'bullshit'

[FinalBaton]

Haha that reminds me of when Skyrim's graphics blew me away.. when i started playing it 5 years after it came out.

Well Demon's really nailed its aesthetic I think. It kinda.. glows.

Sumez' advice is great and all but Boletaria Palace 2 or 1-2 is worth trying early imo!
How far in are you Mr. Baton? Any stand out moments?

Ahh I remember the good old days of first trying DeS as a Temple Knight, fat rolling in 2011, giving up for several months and declaring the game to be 'bullshit'

Oh I'm really not far. I've beaten the Lead Demon, and made a bit of progress past him, as well as pretty decent progress in all the other lands. except the archstone of the Tower Queen which I haven't tried yet.

Couple omg moments already :

-when the door opened in Boletarian palace and a huge ass spear shot out, I was like "dammmmn" and kinda got intimidated for a moment, lol.
I beat the Lead Demon on the first try though. That was an extremely fun fight, I really wanted to get him on first try so I was nervous during the combat. after the initial moment of "how tf do I tackle this thang?!?", I decided on a strategy (and got better and better at isolating the spawns as the fight went on) and when I got him it FeltGoodMan.

-same stage, seeing through an arch of the castle, a dragon chilling on the not-so-distant cliff I was like "ho - ly- fuck", better not draw that things attention, and I made myself very small, haha. That was a "wow" moment too, beutiful(yet über intimidating) scenery.

-again same stage but 2nd archstone : I'm fucking shitting my pants when there's a segment of uncovered passerelle that I gotta cross but there's this huge ass red-dragon making the rounds and descending on the passerelle and breathing fire and screeching like hell and everything shakes. lol. So far I ran the first segment, then went down a tower, advanced a bit, had to go back up at another tower and now I've got another bit of uncovered passerelle to run on (a longer one than the first) and I'm scared shitless, lol. I've got decent stamina to run awhile, but I still get burned to a crisp. Imma give a few more tries and then if can't get through then I'll move on to other stages. no biggie

-the Valley of Defilement is so damn vile, that it left an impression on me. Got bitten by a big rat at some point and got the plague -_- talk about a forsaken hellhole, hahaha. That's awesome.

-Shrine of Storms is badass too and left an impression as well. I mean just the environment and lore of the land itself is cool : they be worshipping tempests, and humongous rays move in the sky. couple that with the menacing weather, and seeing a big boss in the castle right away, is pretty intimidating. Of COURSE I'm gonna go around first, haha


So yeah, the environments/atmosphere themselves are standouts for me in some cases. great stuff

[Blinge]

Oooh interesting, does it say Lead Demon in your version when the boss was alive?
French text version?

In my game The blob is called Phalanx, after the shield formation (I think)
Edit: Derp!

[FinalBaton]

Ah, my bad. It's Phalanx. I used the name of the soul you get when defeating him instead

[Squire Grooktook]

Glad you're enjoying! Valley of Defilement is indeed fucked up, you haven't seen the full depths of its depravity yet ^_^

Shadowmen archstone is definitely my favorite in the game. Great enemy variety and design, extremely varied terrain and traps that makes you play differently the whole way through, killer art direction and atmosphere, etc.

[Obiwanshinobi]

super deep blacks

Darker than Dark Souls, isn't it? Dragon's Dogma gets exceptionally dark for a videogame too (about Thief 2 level of dark). Well, dearly as I wish stereo sound in DeS (when using headphones) was up to Dragon's Dogma or Thief 2* standards, I guess sound design this nuanced must be interwoven with the rest of a game design to begin with, which perhaps wasn't on From's menu at the time. Specifically, I take it that in DeS, fewer things are supposed to make sound at once: even as they tail you for a fair bit, don't their signature sounds only kick in when they re-enter your view?
I almost wanna revisit Metroid Prime, so I can examine which way "3D sound", downmixed back to stereo, is handled there. My guess is more like in DeS (pretty similar kind of action-adventure game engine in many a way), but it could be that I'm underestimating Prime (much higher profile a production in its time).

*) With EAX on indeed.

[guigui]

I love reading FinalBaton's thought on Demon's, makes me dive in memories almost ... 10 years ago ! Damn.
Keep having fun.

I've recently started a new game of Bloodborne, and picked the saw cleaver weapon.
My 1st playthrough I stopped at Old Yarnham, could not kill the Blood Starved Beast, and now I start to think this was because I picked the axe weapon. This cleaver is so much faster ! But I guess it will do not that much damage at mid-game.

[Squire Grooktook]

My 1st playthrough I stopped at Old Yarnham, could not kill the Blood Starved Beast, and now I start to think this was because I picked the axe weapon. This cleaver is so much faster ! But I guess it will do not that much damage at mid-game.

Nah the Cleaver remains incredibly powerful all the way through. It's a very well designed, balanced, and fun signature weapon for the game.

The axe is very powerful too, in its own way, but very hard to use. I wouldn't recommend it to a beginner.

[Immryr]

yeah, the saw cleaver is the strongest weapon in bloodborne. make sure you're making use of the transform attack in your combos. it's very powerful and builds a lot of beasthood if you're using beastblood pellets.

[Mortificator]

I'm playing through Dark Souls for the first time myself. I haven't tried any games in the Dark Souls series before (and not Demon's Souls or Bloodborne either). I also haven't watched any runs or read about its mechanics online, though of course, I haven't been able to avoid hearing about it over the years.

Some of the things floating around out there are have turned out to be way off-base. The game has little in common with King's Field beyond the dark fantasy motif. It's almost nothing like Castlevania. And it hasn't been particularly hard. My knight-class character has a shield that's been effective at blocking most attacks and a free stock of healing items waiting at every checkpoint. The pace of combat is on the slow side and there's little consequence to death.

Which is not to say I haven't been dying. I saw the minuscule damage my attacks were doing to the asylum demon and assumed the fight was unwinnable, then was surprised when I respawned right outside. It was necessary to turn up the brightness to see the door I was supposed to run through. I poked my nose through the graveyard with the mace owning skellies until some big ones popped up, making me uncertain if I should go that way yet. I went underground, but died to some wraiths and didn't have any more of the items that make them tangible. Died to the guy in black armor in the Undead Burg, killed him with a spear, killed the taurus demon by chucking firebombs at it, and used a bone to teleport away when a dragon started breathing fire. That was premature, since when I went back that way it turned out I'd been right on the verge of opening a shortcut back down to the bonfire. It looks like using them only makes basic enemies respawn.

I've been kindling bonfires and turning human when I can, but I'm not sure what the benefits are to that yet, since my character doesn't seem to be weaker as an undead. Maybe enemies have better drops when you're alive. I'm not really asking for answers, mind, just sharing what's been unclear so far.

[Blinge]

Oh Immy, I thought that Ludwig Greatsword is the strongest weapon?

Some of the things floating around out there are have turned out to be way off-base. The game has little in common with King's Field beyond the dark fantasy motif. It's almost nothing like Castlevania.

I mean, yeah. You've just started, but it's definitely time to state conclusions already.

>And it hasn't been particularly hard.

>killed the taurus demon by chucking firebombs at it

Really, you choose your own difficulty.

The game being famously hard is basically memes at this point. It's miles easier than 1cc'ing most arcade games.

[youngmoneySWE]

I agree with the game's reputation of being difficult being very blown out of proportion. I honestly think that people have just forgotten how to block or be patient. Just cautiously approach enemies and new rooms and back up if you are being swamped with enemies and you'll go a long way. It's not your general 'mash X and O, then wait for a QTE-icon to appear to deal MAXIMUM DAMAGE' that people perhaps were used to with third person action titles when it came out. And now it's a meme like you said.

Even so, the first game is easily one of my best gaming experiences ever. Hope the remake is somewhat decent since I don't have a PS3/360 anymore to play the original. I would have loved to see a separate mode where they shuffle the items around but thats probably asking too much (I hear there's a mod that does this for PC - anyone have experience with that one?)

[Sumez]

The game visually looks really cool to me. Maybe it's because I don't play much modern games and am more easily impressionable? I play the game on a 720p plasma set (the best display that I've ever seen for 720p sources, looks awesome, even has a bit of a CRT-phosphor feel to the picture, and super deep blacks) and it looks so gorgeous to me.

The game looks way better than Dark Souls 2!

[Mortificator]

Some of the things floating around out there are have turned out to be way off-base. The game has little in common with King's Field beyond the dark fantasy motif. It's almost nothing like Castlevania.

I mean, yeah. You've just started, but it's definitely time to state conclusions already.

I've also already determined that Dark Souls is nothing like Dead Rising, Devil May Cry, or Donkey Kong Country.

Another of those black knights attacked, and as I was backing up and poking him, we both fell down the ladder. He ended up suspended in midair. Killed a big pig, though I think most of its injuries were self-inflicted by running into flames, and have been wearing its head since. Defeated a lightning demon, then went back a bit and defeated two gargoyles to ring the church bell. If I had died after taking out one of them, I wonder if it would have respawned?

The dramatic boss theme put into focus how I don't like the near-total absence of music otherwise.

With another bonfire, I've realized kindling doubles my estrus supply, so that's one benefit to humanity. The elevator back down to the shrine gave me the opportunity to talk to the priest and experiment with magic. I didn't expect a use-based system a la Dungeons & Dragons. The King's Field games used MP, as did Shadow Tower and Eternal Ring.

[guigui]

yeah, the saw cleaver is the strongest weapon in bloodborne. make sure you're making use of the transform attack in your combos. it's very powerful and builds a lot of beasthood if you're using beastblood pellets.

Good advice I guess, have no idea yet how to use the transform in the middle of a combo. Care to explain ?
Also about the beasthood/frenzy status, I have no idea how they work ; and if they are good or bad.

[Blinge]

I've also already determined that Dark Souls is nothing like Dead Rising, Devil May Cry, or Donkey Kong Country.

Can't tell if joke or if people actually said it was.

Anyhow it doesn't take a genius to figure out why people drew comparisons with King's Field, nor do I remember seeing anyone say it is *actually* similar to that series.

If I had died after taking out one of them, I wonder if it would have respawned?

Yes, it would have.
So did you actually fight them? Or cheese them like you did Taurus.

The dramatic boss theme put into focus how I don't like the near-total absence of music otherwise.

Please post examples of music you think would be good stage music for the game.

talk to the priest and experiment with magic. I didn't expect a use-based system a la Dungeons & Dragons. The King's Field games used MP, as did Shadow Tower and Eternal Ring.

Miracles*
No idea why I'm pointing this out but DeS and Souls 3 also use MP.
Oh Lost Kingdoms and Kuon I think were use-based, but that's irrelevant.

Question is: are you enjoying yourself or not.

[Sumez]

-same stage, seeing through an arch of the castle, a dragon chilling on the not-so-distant cliff I was like "ho - ly- fuck", better not draw that things attention, and I made myself very small, haha. That was a "wow" moment too, beutiful(yet über intimidating) scenery.

This is exactly the thing that amazed me about Demon's Souls, and most of the games in the "series" since it - but especially Demon's Souls because no one had done something like it before.

If you see a Dragon resting off a far cliff, you take it fucking seriously. At this point you'll already know that it isn't just scenery, and it will definitely be happy to kill you. In any other game you'd probably run right up an take it on, just to see what will happen, even if you know you'll die. In Demon's Souls I was too scared to even approach it. That's atmosphere and world building, and Skyrim wishes it could have had half of it.
There's a really good shield there though, but I won't tell you how to get it if you want to find out yourself (it's pretty pragmatic, to be honest)

So did you actually fight them? Or cheese them like you did Taurus.

To be fair, the Taurus fight pretty much asks you to cheese it.
I think it's trying to teach you that boss fights can involve strategies aside from just blocking and dodging accordingly (even if few really do from that point on)

[Immryr]

i still think demon's souls is a great looking game too. the art direction is really great. it's aged much better than a lot of early ps3 games, visually.

yeah, the saw cleaver is the strongest weapon in bloodborne. make sure you're making use of the transform attack in your combos. it's very powerful and builds a lot of beasthood if you're using beastblood pellets.

Good advice I guess, have no idea yet how to use the transform in the middle of a combo. Care to explain ?
Also about the beasthood/frenzy status, I have no idea how they work ; and if they are good or bad.

yeah it's easy, just press L1 in the middle of the combo and it will perform an attack that also transforms the weapon. i personally like to keep the weapon in its short form most of the time and attack with a r1, r1, l1 combo. you can do the transform attack at any point in the combo, other than the first hit, and you can use it to go from short to long or vice versa.

i'll put some beasthood and frenzy details in spoilers, up to you if you consider mechanics details like this spoilers or not:

Spoiler

when you use a beastblood pellet and attack something you will see a guage start to fill up, this is the beasthood meter. you fill it up more by attacking continuously and some attacks fill the guage more than others. the saw cleaver's transform attacks give loads of beasthood.

the higher your beasthood meter, the more damage you do, however you also receive more damage too.
this is only really useful against bosses as regular enemies will die before you can build up a meaningful amount of beasthood.

frenzy is basically like bleed in dark souls 1. certain enemies and certain attacks cause your frenzy meter to fill, if it gets to the top you lose a chunk of health.

blinge: nah the saw cleaver is definitely the strongest weapon. in fact in some ways i think it's detrimental to the game just how strong and satisfying it is to use. in a game which already has pretty limited build variety it makes every other weapon feel like you're deliberately gimping yourself by not using it.

[rapoon]

blinge: nah the saw cleaver is definitely the strongest weapon. in fact in some ways i think it's detrimental to the game just how strong and satisfying it is to use. in a game which already has pretty limited build variety it makes every other weapon feel like you're deliberately gimping yourself by not using it.

that's exactly how I feel about the saif. lack of serration is irrelevant in lieu of it's aggressive transformed moveset. the saw cleaver is fantastic (not sure I agree that it dwarfs everything else); i've always favored it over the spear. one of the best, if not the best, transformation attacks.

[FinalBaton]

There's a really good shield there though, but I won't tell you how to get it if you want to find out yourself (it's pretty pragmatic, to be honest)

I went back and there's a second dragon there now and he's looking my way no way in hell I'm going there now, hahaha

Looks like I missed that opportunity... oh well, that'll be something to try on the second playthrough

[Sumez]

It's not missed

[FinalBaton]

Ah good

[Mortificator]

Went through darkroot garden, which has a nice marshy aesthetic, and lost to the moonlight butterfly my first try. I had its health down to a sliver when it backed away from the structure, and got blasted when I was trying to equip my crossbow to finish it off. The realtime menus are good in that they discourage constantly changing equipment, but as a consequence, foreknowledge is favored over adapting on the fly.

After I went back and killed the butterfly, the basin was next, with an enemy partially clipping through a tower door as it tried to get at me. I could hit it through the door with no risk, but that got tedious, so I opened the tower and defeated this onion knight directly. Next was the valley of drakes, where the first drake I attacked obligingly hopped off the cliff to its death. I went left until I encountered an ancient dragon. Just one physical attack was nearly enough to kill me, but it was immobile and had a sad excuse for a breath weapon, so I was able to run in and out axing its paw until it fell. The big damage bonus from two-handed wielding is satisfying.

I progressed to Blighttown, but the guy at Firelink Shrine had said the second bell was there, so I decided to take the shortcut up to to burg and see if the dragon shield I'd picked up let me resist the red dragon's deadly breath weapon. It so did not.

Anyhow it doesn't take a genius to figure out why people drew comparisons with King's Field, nor do I remember seeing anyone say it is *actually* similar to that series.

Try a search engine. Of course, if you're saying that it's not actually similar to King's Field, you're saying my initial evaluation was in fact accurate.

So did you actually fight them? Or cheese them like you did Taurus.

My upgraded spear did so much damage that I didn't have cause to experiment with other weapons. Not that firebombs would have been high on my list to try against enemies who breathe fire themselves and are made of stone. So... I did cheese them, I guess? You'll need to elaborate, because the idea that using effective weapons and winning quickly are bad things is strange to me.

Please post examples of music you think would be good stage music for the game.

Maybe something like this for the undead burg, this for one of the underground areas. Naturally, anything I pick couldn't be as appropriate as something composed specifically for the game.

miracles*

That's the type of magic I used, yes.

Question is: are you enjoying yourself

Sure!

[Blinge]

The realtime menus are good in that they discourage constantly changing equipment, but as a consequence, foreknowledge is favored over adapting on the fly.

Hardswapping is for true ballers. But then again some people have muscle memory on the menus themselves.

I could hit it through the door with no risk, but that got tedious, so I opened the tower and defeated this onion knight directly.

Yeah after most of his health was gone
He wasn't the actual onion knight tho.

Of course, if you're saying that it's not actually similar to King's Field, you're saying my initial evaluation was in fact accurate.

Nah, people were calling it a spiritual successor to King's Field, not that the game is LIKE it. Anchoring the new series to the dev's history etc.
But fuck it you know what, you could make that argument that it is similar if you just focus on the atmosphere and relative slowness compared to other games, instead of downplaying it like you did.
This game isn't like Bubble Bobble either! I saw someone say so online! I'm definitely right!

So did you actually fight them? Or cheese them like you did Taurus.

You'll need to elaborate, because the idea that using effective weapons and winning quickly are bad things is strange to me.

Ranged attacks are cheese in DeS and DS1 (not sure about the others) and I will die on that hill.

On a serious note, if at some point you find "effective" tactics are trivialising the game and making it less fun for you, I'd sugest stopping and doing something more risky. Stop using shields if they're boring, etc.
Its obviously down to personal preference though, and I shouldn't be slamming someone's playstyle on their first game.
I just saw irreverence in your post and it triggered my inner fanboy.

Please post examples of music you think would be good stage music for the game.

Maybe something like this for the undead burg, this for one of the underground areas. Naturally, anything I pick couldn't be as appropriate as something composed specifically for the game.

...Not the worst choice but, no. just no.
Actually it makes me think of mid 00's wRPGs.
And that anything like that second track would make the underground areas simply unbearable.

miracles*

That's the type of magic I used, yes.

Gotta get with the lingo, son.

Question is: are you enjoying yourself

Sure!

*Super serious nod*

[youngmoneySWE]

Really like the remasters! Kinda pleased that they didn't change anything really. Havent played this game in 2-3 years so it's been a pleasant revisit. Never been into PVP but hopefully this version will revitalize the scene for at least a short while.

Using a str/fth build this time around. Miracles and a large club as a weapon of choice.

Thinking about making my club Divine or Occult due to scaling with faith (where I'm putting most of my points). Any one of those better than the other?

[FinalBaton]

So... I totes got my hands full with Demons' Souls eh? But I wanna get Dark Souls 1 for sure. And I guess since I'm a console peasant, and not a PC Master Cuck : the only sensible option is the remaster, eh?

I mean :
even though I haven't played the original... I've seen screenshots/vids comparison of various stages and in at least 50% of them the lighting seems worse to me (yet better in a couple a spots. yet the animations(especially sword swings)seem way stifer) in remaster. But a bump to higher rendering res (even though texture res don't quite follow suite...) and a solid 60 fps, makes it the solid de facto version for console plebs, despite the ughlier lighting in some spots?


Eh?



So what do you guys thin? is the ps4 remaster a no-brainer to get? (still don't have a ps4... but I'll be getting one this summer cuz I wanna soulsborne...)

Is ps3 even an option? (I'm no fps whore but dammit... single digits fps in an entire zone really put me off)

Or is OG steam release + DSfix the way to go for me, since I like the OG lighting (not too keen on spending on a BEAST pc though... plus the game still behaves weird in some spots with DSfix I think? i currently only have a work pc with integrated chipset so... yeah "fuggetabaotit" as the italian-american say)

[youngmoneySWE]

I'd skip PS3. Blighttown is reason enough to go with remaster or DSFix. There are some quality of life fixes to the remaster as well that I like but they are very minor. Get it for the FPS.

I play PS4 and I'm very happy with the remaster. It's a fantastic game.

[Immryr]

you actually can't buy the original version on steam any more, just the remaster.

i'd say it's worth going for the remaster just for the stable frame rate. i've heard that it's a consistent 60fps on regular ps4 as well as pro, which is a relief.

i agree that the new lighting looks worse in places, it does also look better in some places. it's not a huge deal either way really.

[FinalBaton]

Thanks for your take on this youngmoneySWE and Immryr. Yeah I think I'll go with the remaster on PS4, that seems like the most sensible options, all things considered. I'll get over the plastic-y armors and lighting downgrades in some spots. the solid 60fps upgrade is gonna be well worth it.