OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[BazookaBen]

What he's saying is what if you have everything HDMI plugged into your receiver and then the receiver to the television? How do you avoid adding a mixing device for audio when your receiver is only looking for digital audio over HDMI?

Oh yeah, well in that case, the only proper thing to do is avoid running HDMI to your receiver altogether for your old game consoles. Gotta run video straight to your TV and analog audio straight to the receiver. Doesn't help with wire clutter but it's the best way to maintain maximum audio fidelity with maximum video fidelity.

[Rune]

I dont think people fully understand my issue regarding why I'm trying to mix the audio in with Marqs' OSSC output. I guess we all have out own needs depending on our individual set ups. I'll try to explain mines using this poorly drawn image.



What I have here is two monitors, both of which connect to my PC via DVI-D. The Dell one is 1440p but has high input lag, poor response times with a lot of ghosting. Its used purely for the extra screen real estate with the PC. The other Asus monitor is 1080p and has very low input lag, so that one is used for gaming, which includes consoles via HDMI.
I dont own a TV so the Asus monitor is used instead. But since it only has one HDMI port, I of course use the HDMI switch box to allow myself 5 devices. The switch then outputs into a HDMI splitter, which splits the signal to the Asus monitor for playing the games, and another signal into a capture card in my PC to allow myself to record things too.
All my consoles currently go into the HDMI switcher, which also includes a cheap SCART to HDMI converter off eBay for the retro gaming (one of the ones reviewed on Fudoh's site).

I guess it's clear that my idea is to seamlessly swap out the old SCART converter with Marq's OSSC. But that would mean I'd need to output via HDMI with audio.
I can maybe (with a few compromises) plug the OSSC individually into either the capture card or the monitor, but not both. Unless of course I use some kind of "DVI + Audio to HDMI" converter within my current chain of devices, which I'm started to accept as my only option.

I'm just hoping the thing doesnt introduce any extra input lag into the whole thing. Sadly, I think there's only one way to find out.

[blizzz]

People wondering about getting audio on HDMI are generally trying to get audio on their TV speakers

I have never seen anyone use the speakers inside of their flatscreen TV. HDMI audio is just convenient. You can use splitters, switches, HDMI receivers etc. Modern TV setups use the audio return channel (ARC) to send audio from your TV to your HDMI receiver. HDMI audio has become the standard.

[werk91]

If anyone is after good and cheap stereo speakers I can't recommend the Creative T10 enough. There's no sub but I doubt you'll miss it! There's also two inputs for convenience. Quality wise for that price not many others will get close to them. I even use them with a turntable from a phono preamp and the sound is soo detailed. Obviously if space and finance allows, always go for a stereo/ surround integrated amp and good passive speakers. In most such sound setups the quality will depend 80% on the speakers so don't buy a 300$ amp with budget speakers. Also a lot of old 90s passive speakers will sound significantly better than newer budget options and for a fraction of the price too.

[Gered]

I have never seen anyone use the speakers inside of their flatscreen TV.

Really? You've never seen someone who just uses the built-in speakers? This has gotta be some sort of selection bias or something. Majority of HDTV's I see in people's homes are just using the built-in speakers.

[Xyga]

I have never seen anyone use the speakers inside of their flatscreen TV.

Really? You've never seen someone who just uses the built-in speakers? This has gotta be some sort of selection bias or something. Majority of HDTV's I see in people's homes are just using the built-in speakers.

Agreed. I still do as well since I'm living in a apartment lot the neighbors wouldn't tolerate louder anyway.
When I want good sound I just use good headphones.

No need going around in circles asking if Marq's device should have HDMI audio, it should !...if it was a mainstream consumer product that is.
IIRC his project here was to make a pure good doubler (ended up being much more than that) while keeping the costs down. The rest, which is only convenience, means more $$$ with every added bit.
Me ? I'm already glad he's going to assemble the thing in my place for the cost. I'll manage the menial work (sound/casing/stickers/whatever) myself.

[blizzz]

I guess it's selection bias, but I really can't imagine that anyone buys a 400€+ TV and doesn't spend the extra 25€* for good speakers.

(*used Logitech X-230 on eBay)

[Xyga]

Most people don't know what to buy and maybe 90% of the active speakers and soundbars out there are shit not sounding much better than the built-in.

It's people spending more than $500, maybe $700 or $1000 etc - also size matters a lot - who start to think that talkie-walkie output isn't worthy.

Around where I live houses have 32", 42", sometimes 50 inchers but rarely any bigger.

[Skips]

i purposely use built in speakers to offend audiophiles and hipsters.

[Gered]

I use the built in speakers on my HDTV and the crappy mono speaker on my PVM. However, my hearing is pretty crap and I can almost never tell the difference between a top of the line sound system and your average stereo speakers anyway. Even when others are standing there with me telling me it really does sound better, I'm just smiling and nodding because I can't tell at all.

At any rate, to each their own. Some people really care about having a fancy audio set up, others just want something that works.

[rtw]

I'm an in-built speaker guy as well, probably because I come from the arcade world where mono is king

[bobrocks95]

I use a wall mount I swivel 90 degrees regularly, external speakers would be incredibly inconvenient. Maybe a soundbar would work, but all I see in Best Buy cost half the television.

[BazookaBen]

I use a wall mount I swivel 90 degrees regularly, external speakers would be incredibly inconvenient. Maybe a soundbar would work, but all I see in Best Buy cost half the television.

You mean between yoko and tate? In that case bookshelf speakers or similar would be great because they aren't attached to the TV.

[bobrocks95]

You mean between yoko and tate? In that case bookshelf speakers or similar would be great because they aren't attached to the TV.

No like pulling the arm out and then turning the TV sideways so (from my desk) you'd see the side of it. So you'd have to turn the speakers and move them if something other than a soundbar were used.

Regardless, cheap speakers are nice if you have the option to get them.

[Sid]

I have four separate gaming areas, and use all manner of audio set ups. The (front facing) speakers on my Pioneer PDP-LX509 are quite adequate for when I don't need or want epic sound. The amp in the same space is a beast, but sometimes it's use is just not warranted.

[Xyga]

^ I have four areas as well (2 lcd's and 2 crt's)

The only thing that bothers me with the idea of adding even a little sound system is that I really lack room.
I have so many ac adpaters and cables behind those, and so much stuff stacked on all sides that it would be a pain.

I think I'm going to go the HDMI+audio mixing cable way, one that doesn't require power if that exists.

[werk91]

...HDMI+audio mixing cable way, one that doesn't require power if that exists.

I will be very interested in such a solution as well although I kinda think its not possible.. There's a lot of cables that just give you the audio on a separate 3.5mm cable next to the HDMI but that's about it.

[AndehX]

I use the integrated speakers on my 40 inch TV. As long as I can hear it, and it's stereo, its good enough. On my PVM however, I have an external sound system (with amp) attached as that mono speaker is really poor.

[marqs]

SSI/Majestic 12 is known to have bad/unconventional sync, you need a composite sync regenerator i.e. an LM1881.

Got that board working by tweaking internal sync separator threshold after figuring out that hsync length was a lot longer than usual.

Another set of arcade boards tested today - Grid Seeker and G-Darius were the only ones out of 15 boards giving trouble. Seemed like they are using unconventional field signaling (like Chrono Cross) which easily confuses TVP7002 but I have to take a closer look.

[BitFaced]

Question: Is PAL linetripling something that can be made possible through a firmware update?

[BuckoA51]

I'm just hoping the thing doesnt introduce any extra input lag into the whole thing. Sadly, I think there's only one way to find out.

No frame buffer so no input lag.

[SpeedyPhantom]

Well over 50 people have now made a pre-order , and majority have selected a complete unit as expected. I still leave the form open for some time - reservations after the first 50 are served (on reservation order) after the first batch has successfully shipped.

Could you share the current total number of pre-orders? I only found out about the pre-orders a couple of days ago and I'm wondering how many people are in front of me.

[RocketKnight]

Question: Is PAL linetripling something that can be made possible through a firmware update?

Please correct me, if I'm wrong, but I don't think so. According to what I read here, the monitor would have to be able to accept a 864p signal, and I don't know any monitors that do.

[Fudoh]

yes, that's right. 720p from 288p can't be done with a buffer-free design.

[marqs]

Question: Is PAL linetripling something that can be made possible through a firmware update?

Please correct me, if I'm wrong, but I don't think so. According to what I read here, the monitor would have to be able to accept a 864p signal, and I don't know any monitors that do.

yes, that's right. 720p from 288p can't be done with a buffer-free design.

Linetripling 288p should be technically possible, but as said, it'd result by default to 864p signal (tot. 3*312=936 lines). However, most 288p games have only 240 lines of active area (typical PAL conversions with black bars), so in fact it'd be possible to mark only 720 output lines as active. This would also fix the squished acpect of PAL games while producing 1280x720@50Hz, although the monitor must support the resulting total line count.

[lettuce]

So how does this thing stack up against the xrgb-mini?

Issue i have with the mini is the 'handshake' delay and how scanlines look in 1080p

[Rune]

yes, that's right. 720p from 288p can't be done with a buffer-free design.

Would PAL linetripling be possible if you were to output to 1080p with a border?

[bobrocks95]

So how does this thing stack up against the xrgb-mini?

Issue i have with the mini is the 'handshake' delay and how scanlines look in 1080p

It doesn't do 1080p so scanlines shouldn't be a problem, and if by handshake delay you mean 480i/240p switching it does that much faster than the XRGB

[marqs]

Well over 50 people have now made a pre-order , and majority have selected a complete unit as expected. I still leave the form open for some time - reservations after the first 50 are served (on reservation order) after the first batch has successfully shipped.

Could you share the current total number of pre-orders? I only found out about the pre-orders a couple of days ago and I'm wondering how many people are in front of me.

There's now over 100 pre-orders.

So how does this thing stack up against the xrgb-mini?

Issue i have with the mini is the 'handshake' delay and how scanlines look in 1080p

Before making any comparisions with commercial devices like Framemeister, please keep in mind that this is a one-man free-time project so it's best not to put expectations too high. Still, when it comes to latency and video mode switch delay, I'd say it's already an improvement over Framemeister due to simple linedoubling/tripling logic.

[lettuce]

Before making any comparisions with commercial devices like Framemeister, please keep in mind that this is a one-man free-time project so it's best not to put expectations too high. Still, when it comes to latency and video mode switch delay, I'd say it's already an improvement over Framemeister due to simple linedoubling/tripling logic.

Yeah i understand. But a massive advantage you have is your in contact with a community that 'know their shit' when it comes to these sort of devices, and know where to concentrate your efforts to make this the best device it can be!

So whats the current state on this device having a HDMI connection?