Sony W6 series LCD review - 2013's best gaming TV

[austin532]

Most likely not. The only difference will probably be a slightly different design and that they use Android TV now which I can care less about. Sony is already abandoning ship on 1080p TV's so I doubt they would spend any money on making improvements. Everything will probably be the same. Start up time, Input Lag, Impulse Mode Flickering, etc. Why they can't make a size smaller than 50" for the W800 series is beyond me.

[bobrocks95]

So I should've bit the bullet and imported the 705B when I had the chance it sounds like...

[Edward_Tz]

Bestbuy has the 50in w7 TVs. Were you looking to get one smaller?

[bobrocks95]

Hmm, is that a new development, or is the W700B different from the W705B (specifically in the lag department)? 50" is actually pretty much perfect, and I see they have a 55" as well that wouldn't be bad either, though I'm not sure 5" is worth another $100. Guess I need to scan the thread again and re-educate myself on this mess :\

[Fudoh]

third digit are only minor differences, like country destination, tuner version and so on.... It's the same TV.

Lag on the 50" models is just as good.

[bobrocks95]

Cool, thanks Fudoh! I also saw that back on page 11 Voish posted around November that Best Buy had just added the 50W700B and 55W700B to their website, so I guess this is a fairly new development.

Looks like I'll be getting myself a late Christmas present then!

[Edward_Tz]

Well I was going to go with a plasma but I decided to get a 50W700B while they're still available. Just got here and waiting for it to get adjusted to room temperature. I saw a couple of people were having a hard time getting a xrgb3 connected to it. Is there a known vga to hdmi transcoder that's friendly with the xrgb and a Dreamcast? I'm not sure what the best way to hook up a xrgb 3 to this set is.

I don't want to get off topic but my main concern is getting games that switch between 240p and 480i like Symphony of the Night working well. Maybe it's better to get a xrgb3 and chain it to a another scaler? Ordering this stuff over the next few months and trying to keep it all under $800.

[Ed Oscuro]

Last I heard, the Micomsoft scaler with the shortest 240p-480i transition time is the XPC-4. They're more targeted for computers than the Framemeister, and also a bit more expensive.

[bobrocks95]

Does the W700B still use the same type of VA panel as 2013's W600B? My only concern is viewing angle and the color shift from being off-center; has it been improved at all?

[Xyga]

One probably very similar if not identical to 2013's W650B (not 600 ) which means AUO AMVA (AMVA5?).
People may complain about viewing angles being narrower than IPS's, but they're wide-enough for 3-4 people facing the display, and more than enough for a single person who's not going to sit on the left or right side of the room anyway.
Distance plays a role of course, just remember you're not supposed to sit right in front of it like it's a computer monitor, you need to sit something at least 1,30m from the 42" model, so a bit further for the 50".

[bobrocks95]

One probably very similar if not identical to 2013's W650B (not 600 ) which means AUO AMVA (AMVA5?).
People may complain about viewing angles being narrower than IPS's, but they're wide-enough for 3-4 people facing the display, and more than enough for a single person who's not going to sit on the left or right side of the room anyway.
Distance plays a role of course, just remember you're not supposed to sit right in front of it like it's a computer monitor, you need to sit something at least 1,30m from the 42" model, so a bit further for the 50".

Cool! I'm not really concerned about it being "better than IPS" on viewing angle (comparing the two when you only have the one option is a bit silly!), just that it's good enough for a few people to sit around it. Reading Fudoh's review saying that even just one person dead center will notice colors being off near the edges of the screen is where the concern comes in, but it doesn't look like the AMVA panels have that problem. Thanks Xyga

[Xyga]

I'd say it is also up to people's appreciation, but I wouldn't consider it's enough for some people sitting around, they gotta sit in front of it.
Just like shown on rtings;


But you know in the end it's the same with IPS, except the issue with those is 'glow'.
LCD's whatever the tech currently don't offer very open/wide viewing angles, for like 95% of the displays the experience is much better when facing the screen dead-center-front period.
Colors are off near the edge on VA's, but noticing depends on your brain/eyes and what distance you're sitting from the set (personally I don't notice or even give a damn to begin).
You may also notice a degree of black crush depending on the settings, some people complain about that with VA panels, but again pick an IPS instead and now the issue will be with poor contrast and black looking grey.

Don't expect a perfect viewing experience, really, it's doesn't exist (yet).

[bobrocks95]

Ah, nothing like more examples showing how premature the switch from CRTs really was

Could've just kept making smaller/thinner CRTs, or FED TVs or something, but that just wasn't good enough for people.

[Xyga]

Actually if you have $3,500 you can grab a 55" OLED (LG)
They're not perfect yet... but better than anything else already.

[Xan]

Or step it up to one of their QD+FALD sets? I know their Triluminos tech from phones and the colors really do seem better compared to other LCDs, and FALD should certainly give a well needed contrast boost.

[Ed Oscuro]

A thought that has been bouncing around my mind for a while is that great black levels in test reports don't amount to great black viewing in practice. Even in my fairly well-controlled environment, overhead lights can produce a very slight gray cast on a matte screen, and items on the desktop likewise can reflect up. It's only visible when putting up a pure black screen. On the flip side, of course there is a uniform glow across this IPS screen even with a pure black image...but again it's hard to realize it's there unless comparing with the monitor turned off. Content masks these problems to a strong extent. That said, my own panel doesn't show many actual backlight glow hotspots, even when viewing in a totally dark room, so perhaps this is different for other sets. For me, spots with off colors have been the bigger problem.

Of course many CRTs have fairly bad reflections. FALD hasn't been perfect from what I've seen, either, as you can now get edges in content or zones failing to turn on / turn off quickly enough.

Prad.de has reviewed a 144Hz TN panel with G-SYNC from Asus - the Acer XB270HAbprz. Short impressions: Bad left and right backlight bleed, color fade at extreme angles, especially from above and below (though far better than the color inversion I'm used to seeing on cheap TN monitors), somewhat slow reaction time for GtG transitions at 60Hz with the overdrive off, but much better with it on or at 144Hz, but with the overdrive results ruined by afterimages (see the first pictures here). There also is a Lightboost mode which loses brightness. Overall score is "satisfactory," 4 out of 5 stars.

The awful overdrive performance is not a bad sign for Acer's upcoming 144Hz IPS panel. However it does seem as if the fingerprint-catching piano black finish, which Prad.de criticizes for being dated and catching reflections, might be present in the IPS as well, as pictures I've seen showed the monitor and stand looking quite similar. There has been some confusion about the IPS panel originally being announced as TN, however.

Today TFT Central has reviewed the Dell U2715H. Good IPS overall, but with glow.

I also noticed that TFT Central reviewed a 40" VA monitor last month, the Philips bdm4065uc. It's a VA panel with very good response times and no backlight problems - unfortunately (for some) it uses a PWM backlight at 240Hz and it doesn't have super low input lag. It also operates at 60Hz without adaptive sync, which is pretty much the standard we've had for years anyway. This is a good development for VA panel technology, overall, and it's exciting to see yet another possible direction for displays. For what you get, $850 is a very reasonable price.

Incidentally I wanted to note that PC Gamer's review of the same panel released today, though written in a breezy style and apparently without the advantage of test instruments, comes to fairly similar conclusions on some points. But did they rely on TFT Central or other sources when making statements like " it gets visibly darker in the extreme corners. Though that’s likely to be more a viewing angle issue from sitting close to the screen than a problem with the actual backlighting" ? It seems unlikely, since they totally missed the overdrive's awful dark offshoot problems - that or their "real world testing" doesn't agree with TFT Central. Overall, though, they're late to press and with slim to no original insights.

[austin532]

Speaking of the W600B, is it a VA or AMVA panel? Anyone here have experience with one? How noticeable is the flickering with LED Motion Mode? Is Ghosting and Blur still noticeable in LED Motion Mode? How tolerable is the Lag? It averages around 33ms with Leo Bodner so in reality it should only be around 27-28ms I'm guessing. Pretty good as it's under 30ms but not the greatest. I may have no choice but to get this model unless Samsung really steps up their game this year. This TV received pretty good reviews.

[Fudoh]

How noticeable is the flickering with LED Motion Mode?

very, it's really like a CRT or an early plasma set.

[austin532]

When people say it flickers like a CRT there is one detail to factor in. Not all CRT's flicker the same and some are hardly noticeable unless you are really close. 60Hz TV's flicker less then 50Hz.

I wish people would be more specific . So if someone says for example it flickers like a 60Hz big name brand CRT TV from the early 2000's it would give me a general idea.

Does anyone have a video of what this flickering looks like? Does this also produce a double image effect like people say?

[Xyga]

Speaking of the W600B, is it a VA or AMVA panel?

It must be S-PVA (Samsung) like when it was still in the 'R' series.

----

The LED Motion mode to me is unbearable, and I have never seen any CRT monitor (nor any TV) flicker like that even at 50Hz, dunno why people use this for a comparison...

[dosu]

I love my 700B but I would never use the LCD Motion mode, it makes my eyes go crazy and I don't have problems with CRT and any other LCD monitors/TV's

[Sixfortyfive]

Lol still only bigger sizes again in the USA.

I'll be honest. The first thought that went through my head after setting up my 65-inch 950B was "...I kind of wish it was a little bigger."

Part of the problem. >.>

[Josh128]

Ah, nothing like more examples showing how premature the switch from CRTs really was

Could've just kept making smaller/thinner CRTs, or FED TVs or something, but that just wasn't good enough for people.

They had the answer with plasma, the world just hated it though. Had it been adopted even half as much as LCD, the technology would have continued to be developed and advanced. As good as it is now, it could have been even better.

The perfect off angle viewing is one of plasmas sweetest and immediately recognizable features.

[blackoak]

I have a w900 and I use the impulse motion mode. I'm one of the (lucky? ignorant?) ones who doesn't notice the flicker... but I certainly noticed the bad motion blur when impulse mode was off.

My close friend has his gaming setup on a plasma and I definitely envy the motion/color. The lag is the big downside though, and why I got the w900 in the first place.

[BONKERS]

Ah, nothing like more examples showing how premature the switch from CRTs really was

Could've just kept making smaller/thinner CRTs, or FED TVs or something, but that just wasn't good enough for people.

They had the answer with plasma, the world just hated it though. Had it been adopted even half as much as LCD, the technology would have continued to be developed and advanced. As good as it is now, it could have been even better.

The perfect off angle viewing is one of plasmas sweetest and immediately recognizable features.

Plasma's own problems are far too hard to ignore for me personally that's one reason i've never liked'em.
Like Phosphor Trails.Dear lord those kill my eyes, if you can see motion blur easily on an LCD there's no way you can't see Phosphor trails on a plasma. Often high input lag, running far too hot, often lack of proper 4:4:4 chroma supports,etc.



I don't own one of Sony's newest LCDs with the motionflow, though I have been wanting to get one later this year when I have the money.

I've used a LOT of CRTs and PC CRT monitors and with the later especially I can notice the flicker of 60Hz quite easily compared to say 75Hz, but even then I can live with that. With my Mid 2000's Phillips CRT with Component inputs and Raw 240p signals, there is absolutely no flickering issues at all. With interlaced signals there is quite a bit of flicker. (Especially with for example, PS1 games on the PS3 in 480i since that's all the PS3 supports). With 3D rendered titles on the PS2 or other consoles the interlacing flicker isn't too bad.

[Sixfortyfive]

I can definitely notice 60hz flicker but it's something that I just adjust to and cease to notice after a minute or so of viewing.

the world just hated it though.

Count me among their numbers.

[Ed Oscuro]

Like Phosphor Trails.

What kind of content are we talking about? I can see phosphor trails in certain content (namely, Otogi's drifting cherry petals drifting quickly across a black background) on my PVM 20L2...but it doesn't really harm the content, especially ingame where nothing of the sort is visible.

Wish I knew more about phosphor response - it could be that some phosphors have been designed to precisely avoid flicker due to fading too quickly in normal content, but in unusual content (i.e., against a black backdrop) or with certain colors the timing turns out to be too long to avoid this appearance. I also would expect that you would get increased flicker on a set designed to handle higher refresh rates or possibly higher resolution images.

[Sparda]

After reading the whole thread, i'm planning to buy a 50w805, because the w6 seems difficult to find in France now.

So basically, the 50w805 is a right choice ?

[Xyga]

Salut mec !

The W6 reviewed by Fudoh still exists, the series has just been renamed W7 last year. ^^
Basically the same specs, except this time even the 32" is good;
32W7
42W7
50W7
50W79

The W8 adds full MotionFlow options and 3D (great for movies), the 50+W8 models are recommended over the 42W8 because the latter has passive 3D w/ possibly obnoxious polarizer in normal use, and it lacks full MotionFlow options, therefore;
50W8
55W8
60W85
70W85

Of course there's also the W9 series with an IPS, FALD, Triluminos (sort of QD) panel.
55W95
65W95

The W7 are enough for gaming, but if you want more (a TV that's also good with movies) then the 50W8 is indeed the most interesting choice.

[Josh128]

Like Phosphor Trails.

What kind of content are we talking about? I can see phosphor trails in certain content (namely, Otogi's drifting cherry petals drifting quickly across a black background) on my PVM 20L2...but it doesn't really harm the content, especially ingame where nothing of the sort is visible.

Wish I knew more about phosphor response - it could be that some phosphors have been designed to precisely avoid flicker due to fading too quickly in normal content, but in unusual content (i.e., against a black backdrop) or with certain colors the timing turns out to be too long to avoid this appearance. I also would expect that you would get increased flicker on a set designed to handle higher refresh rates or possibly higher resolution images.

The latest plasmas have almost no phosphor trailing-- all 3 of my Samsungs (one of which is 1080p) dont really have any visible phosphor trailing at all, even with games like Gradius V with fast moving objects on black backgrounds. At the very least, late model plasmas are on par with or better than CRTs as far as phosphor trailing goes.

My 2013 Panasonic X60 exhibited a little "yellow" phosphor trailing with some bright objects on a pure black background, but even it was probably as good as or better than the Viewsonic CRTs I use on my PC.

In any case, I certainly disagree that its present in any degree great enough to be used as a serious reason why someone would discount plasma technology.