Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[c0dehunter]

Hello,

I own a US (NTSC) Satrun Model 2, and I would like to know if I can use this RGB cable to connect it to my SONY PVM-14L5?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sega-Saturn-RGB- ... 25688aa24a

This is what the back of my SONY PVM-14L5:

http://www.broadcastbaron.com/picsandpd ... 11back.jpg

Questions:

1) Do I need to modify my US NTSC Model 2 Saturn in anyway? (by soldering any pins, etc.)
2) Are these two cables that same?

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sega-Saturn-RGB- ... 25688aa24a

And

http://www.retro-access.com/ourshop/pro ... aturn.html

Seems like they are the same company.

If you know a better place on eBay (different seller, with a different cable) that has a RGB cable for my Sega Saturn NTSC US Model 2, please mention that!

I am about to place an order for this cable asap, and I need your opinions FAST!

Thanks in advance!

[c0dehunter]

OK, I was about to place the order, but I realized there seems to be TWO versions of this cable:

This one does not even have a "buy now" option (and its seems it is from Canada):

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Sega-Saturn-RGB- ... 25688aa24a

and this one:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Saturn-RGB ... 2ec5ceb0ea

Are these the same cable?

Any clarification would be appreciated!

[fagin]

Let's use some logic here.....

They are both from the same supplier yet the description is different, so you would assume they are different. The difference in the description is the fact that one specifically mentions raw sync.

Please don't take this the wrong way, you would be wise to spend time researching on google what all this means in relation to your console and target device, you would soon realise the difference being mentioned in those two products. You'll learn more by researching the vast amount of easy information available on the internet on this subject, rather than others answering your questions directly on a forum. Again this is not anything personal to you, but is a way I find returns individuals with greater understanding and knowledge in my view. If you're told a short answer to something you'll learn very little in my opinion.

Anyway......

RAW or Composite Sync is normally deemed as being better (less sync issues and interference than composite video for sync). However some target devices don't like RAW or composite sync. This isn't something your PVM will have a problem with, ergo you would be advised to use cabling that utilises RAW or Comoposite Sync in your instance.

For your application I would advise the use of a RAW / Composite cable if available.

Hope this helps.

[SharkSkin-Man]

Then it most likely was wired for Japanese scart.

This scart cable was mentioned listed in the Xrgb mini thread. I don't know if they ship out of Germany, but that cable is very beefy.

http://www.wolfsoft.de/shop/product_inf ... mized.html

I chose a random cheap Euro scart cable from the UK. I pair it with a sync strike and have not had any issues with 480i.
I personally think that the component cables are also a totally viable option.

It's an official Sony Europe cable and works perfectly on standard scart TVs. I think there is some kind of chip in the connector at the console end of the cable, if memory serves me correctly, which would explain non-standard behaviour.

Thanks for the link

[Fudoh]

The IC in the official cable is just a voltage converter which produces 12V out of a 5V source from the system. This is used for RGB switching on TV sets. If this cable is used with a breakout adapter, the IC won't serve any purpose.

[SharkSkin-Man]

Any idea why it would give a rolling picture when a third party one does not?

[c0dehunter]

Let's use some logic here.....

RAW or Composite Sync is normally deemed as being better (less sync issues and interference than composite video for sync). However some target devices don't like RAW or composite sync. This isn't something your PVM will have a problem with, ergo you would be advised to use cabling that utilises RAW or Comoposite Sync in your instance.

For your application I would advise the use of a RAW / Composite cable if available.

Hope this helps.

Thanks for your comment: OK the reason I chose this cable:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sega-Saturn-RGB ... 2ec5ceb0ea

was due to the following research posted on this source:

http://www.retrorgb.com/Saturn

He states, and I quote:

"I heard rumors about which console was better and which cable had the best signal, but (of course) I really wanted to try it myself. I was able to get both models, as well as a RAW and Regular (composite) sync cable.

The first thing I noticed was that if you use a raw sync cable with a Model 2, it produces weird horizontal lines on the screen. I made sure to test it on a friend’s Model 2, just to make sure there wasn’t a problem with my Saturn, but the same thing happened.

I then tested each combination of cable on both systems. The Model 1 always looked better than the 2, but determining raw vs regular sync was tough. Sometimes the Model 1 looked better with raw sync and other times it looked better with regular.

In conclusion, here’s what I suggest:

Get a regular (composite) sync cable. There's barely a difference between the two cables on the Model 1 and the Model 2 obviously has issues with the raw sync. I have also heard that there are issues with some Japanese versions of the Saturn using raw sync, so it’s best to just stick with regular, composite sync.

If you already own a Model 2, don’t sell it for a Model 1, unless you are having problems with your setup (or if you’re a huge die-hard Saturn fan that needs the absolute best of everything Saturn-related). The Model 2 puts out a great picture and there’s nothing “wrong” with it."

So that is why I chose the one WITHOUT raw sync, since my Saturn is model 2, also that the raw sync one does not even have an Buy Now (or bid) option (seems like ebay.ca)

Thanks.

[fagin]

I have both a model 1 & 2 Saturn. My cable uses composite video for sync, but I pass my consoles through a sync strike to gain raw sync. This works great with my BVM and gets rid of interference. It's interesting what you say about model 2's and raw sync. I've not heard if that before with the Saturn.

[kamiboy]

By deuce, you people and your ability to complicate things to point of absurdity in pursuit of marginal improvements is an art form balanced on the sharpened edge of sanity.

[Ed Oscuro]

Please don't take this the wrong way, you would be wise to spend time researching on google what all this means in relation to your console and target device, you would soon realise the difference being mentioned in those two products. You'll learn more by researching the vast amount of easy information available on the internet on this subject, rather than others answering your questions directly on a forum. Again this is not anything personal to you, but is a way I find returns individuals with greater understanding and knowledge in my view. If you're told a short answer to something you'll learn very little in my opinion.

IMO better safe than sorry (speaking as a fellow learner of codehunter's, not an expert). It's often possible for some unconsidered unknown to pop up and spoil your plans (and equipment).

[c0dehunter]

It's often possible for some unconsidered unknown to pop up and spoil your plans (and equipment).

Huh?

[Ed Oscuro]

Not to increase paranoia. In this case you are fine

[c0dehunter]

OK, a bit of showing off my stuff and couple of quick questions!

1) I have placed my two Sony PVMs on top of one another, if both are turned on, would it cause damage to either of them?


My PVM-14L5 was already on, when I turned on the other CRT (PVM-2030), as a result, the image on PVM-14L5 became wavy and I immediately turned my 2030 off in order to prevent any possible damage.

2) I thought these monitors could be stacked on top of each other and that they are magnetically shielded?

3) If one unit is off, can the other be turned on, or will the magnetic interference possibly still affect the turned-off?

Thanks for your comments!

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachment ... 1359933215

[BuckoA51]

I use raw sync with my Model 2 Saturn and I never experienced any problems, furthermore, it eliminated problems with the XRGB3 and problems where certain colours on the screen would get a moving checker board / dot crawl effect on them.

[c0dehunter]

OK, the seller of the cable that I have ordered just sent me the following message:

Dear codehunter,

Hi,

I can wire the cable to sync if it is required, at no extra charge.

Thank you,

should I have make the cable that way? Would my Sony PVM-14L5 accept it?


I would really appreciate your comments and help.

[SharkSkin-Man]

Second up was PS2 Slim and pretty cheap looking third party scart cable.
Got an image on screen, but there was quite a lot of wavy looking interference, like ripples running through the whole image. I was expecting it to be rock solid on this screen. Crappy cable the cause perhaps? Again, I have an official first party cable somewhere I can dig out, unfortunately most of my gear is packed away.

For anyone who cares, the official Sony PS2 scart cable gave a green, rolling no-sync picture. Many moons ago I had a scart switch that also hated this cable, so perhaps no surprise.

Any recommendations for good quality third party PlayStation scart cables?

Purchased a Snakebyte scart cable, which gives the same rolling, no sync picture as the official Sony cable. Am I missing something with PS2 scart and LM1881 - it's wrecking my head, because I can't fathom why it wont work.

[SePh1r0tH]

So I was never able to get the "jitteriness" of my BVM resolved. It wasn't all that distracting but I sit very close to the screen when playing shmups or fighting games so it was annoying.

I picked up another BVM today locally with 50k hours vs 100k and its perfect. Such an amazing monitor. I really want to thank you Fudoh, you've made retro gaming so much more enjoyable with your knowledge brother.

I appreciate it a lot.

That being said if anyone is in New Jersey and wants my other BVM-20F1U with the shaky screen let me know. I'll let it go cheap.
The image quality is amazing, there is just some visible shakiness apparent on the very top and bottom of the screen when you are really focusing. As well as some degaussing issues on the very bottom right when played for an extended period of time. (corner gets a little discolored but can be fixed temporarily by hitting the degauss button)

[philexile]

Hello,

I just wanted to post here that its confirmed that the Sony BVM-D32E1WU (and presumably the other 'digital' model BVMs) can properly handle 240p. See images below. (Sorry, they aren't the best quality, but the closeups are very nice)









This is THE monitor to get since it handles both SD signals (240p/480i) all the way up to HD (480p/720p/1080i). I'm guessing the quality of 480p must be incredible.

The gentlemen who shot these pictures is in Utah and will be posting them here for sale at $1300, plus shipping. Its pricey, but this is a small fraction of what these monitors cost when they were introduced. Also, the operational hours are quite low at 24,000.

[HDgaming42]

Very, very nice.

Though now all I see is "Skeletor". I swear! I've played that game 1000x and never seen it--but her face is that of Skeletor!!

[HDgaming42]

OK, a bit of showing off my stuff and couple of quick questions!

1) I have placed my two Sony PVMs on top of one another, if both are turned on, would it cause damage to either of them?


My PVM-14L5 was already on, when I turned on the other CRT (PVM-2030), as a result, the image on PVM-14L5 became wavy and I immediately turned my 2030 off in order to prevent any possible damage.

2) I thought these monitors could be stacked on top of each other and that they are magnetically shielded?

3) If one unit is off, can the other be turned on, or will the magnetic interference possibly still affect the turned-off?

Thanks for your comments!

http://www.sega-16.com/forum/attachment ... 1359933215

Can't see your attachment. What you're describing sounds a lot like the monitor degaussing. Leave it for a few seconds and both monitors should settle back down.

[SePh1r0tH]

I would love to play some 360 shmups on that sexy beast. I love my NEC XP29 though so I'll stick with that for now :p

[fagin]

philexile,
Very very nice..... however for that kind of money I'd expect it to give me some hardcore pornstar sex as well.

[philexile]

philexile,
Very very nice..... however for that kind of money I'd expect it to give me some hardcore pornstar sex as well.

Always the comedian.

I think these retailed for $40,000 when they were introduced in the mid-2000s. Just an FYI.

[mesmer]

As a bit of an update on my CRT quest. I received my BVM-A20F1U. I thought it would have some sort of 'default' input board with analog rgb input, but I was wrong. All the inputs are on option boards and mine only came with the board with SD-SDI, Composite, and YC inputs. Also my ebay offer on the BKM-15R controller fell through.

Fast forward a few weeks, I manage to get another BKM-15R, and an RCA-BNC adapter. I successfully test out composite 240p, everything looks great, yay! But who cares about 15khz composite...

After searching ebay for a while for a BKM-68X (analog rgb input board for BVM-A series). I see a 14" model come up with one! I offered the seller $300 for just the board, but they refused, so I had to buy the whole monitor!! Ironically the auction ended up around $300 + $75 to ship. So now I have a 20" and 14" BVM-A, but only one analog RGB board.

So, just yesterday I managed to finally get RGB. I only had a SNES custom cable on hand, and it was godlike! (Well, I imagine not any better than a 15khz-only BVM).

I need a few more adapters to test out my PS2/PS3/Wii with component 480p/1080i/720p. Hopefully soon.

Sorry for the lack of pictures, I spent my time taking pics of the 14" to put it back on ebay.

[Ed Oscuro]

I just wanted to post here that its confirmed that the Sony BVM-D32E1WU (and presumably the other 'digital' model BVMs) can properly handle 240p.

The other models (with rather more "portable" or reasonable sizes) in the BVM-D range's "Master Monitors" section are the BVM-D24E1WU and the BVM-D20F1U. However the BVM-D20F1U (and the monitors in the lower segments, for "picture" and "field" (i.e. portable) use, do not have a 16:9 aspect flat surface HR Trinitron. Instead those display 16:9 formats on 4:3 screens, at the likely cost of some sharpness (the BVM-D20F1U is still a 1000 TVL screen like the larger models). It seems to be essentially the same as the PVM-20L5 (which is also branded as a Multiformat HR Trinitron, displaying 720p60 or 1080i by boxing off parts of the 4:3 screen), except that the PVM doesn't offer input boards (which may not be a bad thing because you won't have to go hunting them down - the built-in connectors should cover all the formats already).

Source.

[gamefan71]

Hello,

I just wanted to post here that its confirmed that the Sony BVM-D32E1WU (and presumably the other 'digital' model BVMs) can properly handle 240p. See images below. (Sorry, they aren't the best quality, but the closeups are very nice)



This is THE monitor to get since it handles both SD signals (240p/480i) all the way up to HD (480p/720p/1080i). I'm guessing the quality of 480p must be incredible.

The gentlemen who shot these pictures is in Utah and will be posting them here for sale at $1300, plus shipping. Its pricey, but this is a small fraction of what these monitors cost when they were introduced. Also, the operational hours are quite low at 24,000.

I have been looking at adding this monitor to my collection for over a year now. Please ask your friend from Utah to NOT post on this message board, I might be forced to purchase one . IMO this is THE monitor to get (if you have the space and someone to help lift it). Do you actually own one or are you looking at picking one up?

[mesmer]

OK, here are some pics of my A20F1U hooked up to my SNES over RGBS




http://s1024.beta.photobucket.com/user/ ... bvm-a20f1u

I'm guessing the quality of 480p must be incredible.

If you don't have a 480p source at the moment, you can at least check out the internal test patterns in all the supported resolutions:

[SePh1r0tH]

OK, here are some pics of my A20F1U hooked up to my SNES over RGBS

Looks amazing man

[lettuce]

Has anyone had any experience with the Ikegami monitors?

[fagin]

Has anyone had any experience with the Ikegami monitors?

I know a man who has.