Mega Man Miscellanies

[Air Master Burst]

The only X games I've played are X1 and X4 (and Xtreme, which goes back to my childhood days on the Gameboy Color). I've been meaning to check the other ones out, maybe even try out the fan hacks that try to "fix" the more controversial entries like X5 and 6.

I'd stick with vanilla X5, I think it holds up really well.

X6's big issues can't really be fixed with a fanhack.

[Austin]

I always thought X5 was dull and boring, and all the forced dialog didn’t help.

X6 is a terrible game, but with all the sequence breaking options and high level of difficulty, it’s at least interesting and so I have a soft spot for it.

I guess ultimately I’d rather play a trashy but interesting game, rather than a streamlined/polished one that puts me to sleep.

If the input lag on the X collection is anything to go by they're better off saving the money.

If you are talking the X Legacy Collection, that issue was with the SNES games. X4 and on were responsive.

[Sima Tuna]

X6 floating donut level is so bad nothing can save it. I want to know who thought that was a good idea for a stage.

If the input lag on the X collection is anything to go by they're better off saving the money.

NSO nes and game boy emulation seems to be fairly solid. The X collection was some sloppy shit and exceptionally bad even by bad porting standards. The NES Legacy collection isn't good either (adds a bit of lag iirc) but it is playable.

Given the choice between capcom emulation or NSO emulation, I'd hold out more hopes for NSO emulation running well. Because Nintendo gets reamed every time their emulation is bad. They were absolutely hammered over Ocarina of Time. Notwithstanding, I'm not a fan of the forever rental, games-as-service model. But IF you have NSO, then go for it. I own MM5 game boy on my 3ds, which is sadly no longer an option.

[Sumez]

Halfway through the robot masters now, and I have to say that it's not bad

It is, in fact, really good.

though I tend to completely forget to use the superfluous Gear system (slow down, or cheese bosses with an attack boost).

Probably for the better. I had my reservations with the gear system, but it's a lot less obtrusive than I'd imagined, because the game isn't really designed to expect you using it, and the cooldown means you can't spam it if you wanted either, so I also ended up just forgetting it most of the time.

I would say the only thing that bugs me, as it did from my ancient memories of MM9 and 10 - is an overreliance on the charge shot, either making it something you always hold down or use the auto charge

Was never a fan of the charge shot in any mega man game either. I think it's unintrusive in MM4 because mashing is usually better or equivalent anyway, and even in MM5 and 6 I didn't mind it too much. But in the GB games that have it and most of the X games it's like you describe. I enjoy those games a lot, but it's always been a mild negative to me. Especially with that annoying sound, too.

[Arino]

I always thought X5 was dull and boring, and all the forced dialog didn’t help.

X6 is a terrible game, but with all the sequence breaking options and high level of difficulty, it’s at least interesting and so I have a soft spot for it.

I guess ultimately I’d rather play a trashy but interesting game, rather than a streamlined/polished one that puts me to sleep.

If the input lag on the X collection is anything to go by they're better off saving the money.

If you are talking the X Legacy Collection, that issue was with the SNES games. X4 and on were responsive.

So out of all games (from the "normal" series and the X series), "only" the SNES ones are technically bad on the collections? Meaning 7, Forte, X, X2, X3? Playing on Steam.

[Austin]

I always thought X5 was dull and boring, and all the forced dialog didn’t help.

X6 is a terrible game, but with all the sequence breaking options and high level of difficulty, it’s at least interesting and so I have a soft spot for it.

I guess ultimately I’d rather play a trashy but interesting game, rather than a streamlined/polished one that puts me to sleep.

If the input lag on the X collection is anything to go by they're better off saving the money.

If you are talking the X Legacy Collection, that issue was with the SNES games. X4 and on were responsive.

So out of all games (from the "normal" series and the X series), "only" the SNES ones are technically bad on the collections? Meaning 7, Forte, X, X2, X3? Playing on Steam.

I was talking about the X collection specifically, not the Mega Man Legacy Collection 2.

[Arino]

I always thought X5 was dull and boring, and all the forced dialog didn’t help.

X6 is a terrible game, but with all the sequence breaking options and high level of difficulty, it’s at least interesting and so I have a soft spot for it.

I guess ultimately I’d rather play a trashy but interesting game, rather than a streamlined/polished one that puts me to sleep.



If you are talking the X Legacy Collection, that issue was with the SNES games. X4 and on were responsive.

So out of all games (from the "normal" series and the X series), "only" the SNES ones are technically bad on the collections? Meaning 7, Forte, X, X2, X3? Playing on Steam.

I was talking about the X collection specifically, not the Mega Man Legacy Collection 2.

OK so talking about the X collection, only X, X2, and X3 are technically bad represented?

[Sumez]

That's still pretty bad if it means X4 is the only decent game on the collection

[Arino]

That's still pretty bad if it means X4 is the only decent game on the collection

LOL yeah but idc, I have them all for their original respective platforms anyway. I still haven't played X8 so I bought it mostly for that one because I was told it was the best way to play X8.

[Sima Tuna]

The way they massacred my boy X1 on that Mega Man X Collection is a crying shame. The best game in the collection, I think most would agree. Yet it was done the dirtiest by far. Roughly equivalent to slapping a set of clown lips on the old Mona Lisa. What's what? You enjoyed instant dash jumping in X1? Have fun doing so with 12 frames of input delay or whatever the fuck it still is now.

[Lander]

I had the dubious pleasure of playing the Mega Drive bootleg of Mega Man X3 the other day.

The title screen FX are kind of nifty, given that it's being done on very different hardware, but the actual game is abominable. A preteen armed with Game Maker could do a better repro job, not that you'd expect much from a bootleg.
It really highlights how all the little things - startup frames on dashes, charge shot being just enough to one-shot midsize enemies, the short pause before X goes from standing to running - come together to form that signature Capcom Smooth Play.

[Arino]

I had the dubious pleasure of playing the Mega Drive bootleg of Mega Man X3 the other day.

The title screen FX are kind of nifty, given that it's being done on very different hardware, but the actual game is abominable. A preteen armed with Game Maker could do a better repro job, not that you'd expect much from a bootleg.
It really highlights how all the little things - startup frames on dashes, charge shot being just enough to one-shot midsize enemies, the short pause before X goes from standing to running - come together to form that signature Capcom Smooth Play.

Yea I didn't even expect a decent remake of X3. I just took it as a game by itself but even then it's still bad. I can't remember why and the details, all I kept in mind was it is not worth playing.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Something I wish the series did and I don't think they've ever done it (?): when your charge shot finishes charging, turn off the sound so it doesn't interfere with the music. Keep the a visual indicator but only have the charging audio play when it's not at max charge.

[Arino]

Something I wish the series did and I don't think they've ever done it (?): when your charge shot finishes charging, turn off the sound so it doesn't interfere with the music. Keep the a visual indicator but only have the charging audio play when it's not at max charge.

That would be unrealistic.

[Austin]

That's still pretty bad if it means X4 is the only decent game on the collection

Haha.. I think he meant from a technical standpoint. The PS1 games look good and are responsive on the collection.

[BrianC]

The way they massacred my boy X1 on that Mega Man X Collection is a crying shame. The best game in the collection, I think most would agree. Yet it was done the dirtiest by far. Roughly equivalent to slapping a set of clown lips on the old Mona Lisa. What's what? You enjoyed instant dash jumping in X1? Have fun doing so with 12 frames of input delay or whatever the fuck it still is now.

Baffling that it happened since M2 had some involvement with the collection (but didn't do the emulation?) and other Capcom collections like the Beat 'em up and Fighting collections turned out much better. The New 3DS Mega Man X emulation, which may be M2, also turned out much better than the Legacy Collection version.

[Sumez]

That's still pretty bad if it means X4 is the only decent game on the collection

Haha.. I think he meant from a technical standpoint. The PS1 games look good and are responsive on the collection.

Yes, but outside of X4 they are awful games

[Air Master Burst]

That's still pretty bad if it means X4 is the only decent game on the collection

Haha.. I think he meant from a technical standpoint. The PS1 games look good and are responsive on the collection.

Then why the fuck didn't they at least use the PS1 version of X3?

Yes, but outside of X4 they are awful games

X3 was always my favorite, I kinda loved how precious playable Zero was. Spent like a month straight getting the Zero run down on an actual console back in the day.

[Sumez]

X3 was always my favorite, I kinda loved how precious playable Zero was. Spent like a month straight getting the Zero run down on an actual console back in the day.

Oh yeah, I'm all for X1, 2 and 3 as well. I just meant out of the PS1/2 titles. From X5 on, the series took a really noticeable facedive

[Sima Tuna]

It makes sense when you consider that X5 was supposed to be the end of the series. Which is why Mega Man Zero 1 took off from the ending of X5 and not X6. If X6 didn't exist, then you'd have X1 and X2, two very good games. Followed by X3 (I'm not a fan, but some like it) and X4 (good game.) Ending with X5, a pretty mediocre and annoying game (damn constant phone calls.) So the decline would only have been for, at most, one game. Maintaining an overall consistent level of quality for a long-running franchise.

It's only when you start to add in the complete trash garbage like X6 and X7 that the X series begins to appear more bad than good.

Having said that, I never did subject the same level of game time to the X games as I have the NES mega mans. When I replayed a bunch of them recently (earlier in the thread,) I totally changed my opinion on some of the games. I ended up with MM6 at the top of my list, which is quite at odds with how many people rank the classic games. And I developed a strong dislike for MM5 on a game design level, which again most people seem to not feel the same way about. Consensus on MM5 seems to be more along the lukewarm "it's alright" category rather than "it's broken and shitty," which would be more my opinion. All's to say I might change my opinions on the X games if I gave them more time. But I don't think the red floating Donut level will ever grow on me.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

I ended up with MM6 at the top of my list, which is quite at odds with how many people rank the classic games. And I developed a strong dislike for MM5 on a game design level, which again most people seem to not feel the same way about. Consensus on MM5 seems to be more along the lukewarm "it's alright" category rather than "it's broken and shitty," which would be more my opinion.

I suspect a lot of the people who rate MM2 at the top of the list do so in part out of nostalgia or because it's the popular and thus "correct" opinion. I've heard lots of people unironically say MM2 has the strongest boss weapons, or that the weapons in later games simply suck, which is frankly untrue given MM2 has numerous bad weapons, MM3's weapon selection is quite decent,MM4 gives you something nearly as good as Metal Blade alongside every other rather decent to very useful boss weapon, and MM6 has a very respectable set of boss weapons that are rather useful, even if none are nearly as overpowered and versatile as Metal Blade or Pharaoh Shot.

The music is really good in all the games I think. Even MM5, whose soundtrack I probably listen to the least, has some insanely good standout music like Proto Man's Fortress that's on par with the MM2 Wily Stage 1 theme (others that I think are as good are Dr. Cossack's second theme in 4, and Mr.X's castle theme in 6).

Spoiler

MM4: My fave in the series alongside 6, the level design's quite fun without anything too egregiously gimmicky like Wave Man's rather bland shmup segment, boss weapons are all useful and satisfying, standing up nicely to the new charge shot (unlike MM5 where it's exceedingly rare for the weapons to be better than the charge shot outside of boss weakness).

MM6: Really, really fun. Of the three NES games with charge shots, my faves are the two that have boss weapons that compete very well with the infinite use mega buster. They even fare well when you consider the Rush Adapters that are also really fun to use! I do sometimes wish the Rush weapons let you slide when using them so you didn't need to swap back and forth for stage obstacles though. The level design and music are all really top notch, I find the game's on par with 4, albeit perhaps a bit easier in difficulty.

MM2: Pretty fun, challenge is fairly high, but once you learn to tackle Quick Man's stage or Heat Man's disappearing platforms without the weapons for them, you feel great. The high challenge is offset by the fact that a couple of the weapons are wildly more powerful than anything else, with Metal Blade being insanely good. Metal Blade, followed by Bubble Lead and Quick Boomerang covers pretty much all stage enemies that aren't affected by Metal Blade. It has some outright bad design choices, such as 3 of the Wily Castle stages requiring grinding if you accidentally died a few times and used up all your weapon energy on the special weapons you need to progress! The puzzle boss in Wily Castle 3 is extremely jank and way too much of a difficulty spike in my opinion, especially since the game isn't kind enough to refill your Crash Bombs on re-attempts by providing respawning weapon refills. If you know what to expect though, you can minimize a lot of the jankiness at these spots. Quick Man and Heat Man's stages are also huge difficulty spikes due to their gimmicks if you don't realize there's items that trivialize them, so a first playthrough has a strong trial and error element to it. I find it more fun to revisit than MM1 or MM3 but if I were bad at MM2's trouble spots I'd likely rate it below MM3.

MM3: Quite a decent game, the revisit of the levels is interesting but I don't think it's as compelling as MM4 onward doing two castles. The giant versions of the boss robots are annoyingly hard to evade thanks to their massive hitboxes. The movement responsiveness has a bit of an issue in the game, too. Rush also feels like an unnecessary gimmick for the sake of adding something new and selling toys, but it's not too forced upon you. I do enjoy the addition of sliding a lot honestly, but there's several stages I'm not crazy about like Top Man's.

MM5: The stage design feels fairly weak at times. Crystal Man's stage is aesthetically cool but feels like a slog to play, Wave Man's is a bore, revisiting stages like Wave Man's to get a Beat letter you accidentally missed is annoying, boss weapons all deal very low damage compared to the charge shot... its presentation is quite pretty and the music is great as it is in all the NES games honestly, with Proto Man's stage theme being one of my all time faves.

MM1: Average, I find it's quite fun but that's because I'm experienced enough with it to know what to expect with respect to some of the jankier level designs (such as Wily's stage forcing a suicide if you didn't get the weapon hiding in Elec Man's stage). It's very definitely the roughest around the edges as expected for the start of the series.

[Sima Tuna]

I think part of why I love Mega Man 6 so much is how well it adds sidegrades to your character without taking anything away from Mega. Jet Mega, Power Mega, standard Charge Shot and boss weapons all have their place. You really decide what to use based on a combination of preference and the tailored level design. I also think levels in MM6 are some of the best in the classic series. They do that very "mega man" thing of introducing a gimmick and then immediately building on it. I love Flame Man's level. They show you the oil, okay now here's a trick with using the little platform guys to travel across the oil... Got it? So now, we add that the oil is set on fire by the fire-spitting enemies and becomes an instant kill. You have to cross it using the little platforms while fire-spitters set oil on fire below you and shoot at you besides. Really slick design. The whole game is full of teaching moments and that's when classic mega man is at its best: when it teaches you the solution with thoughtful design.

[Austin]

And here's the thread devolving into the annual "here's my list of favorite mega mans, with the most arbitrary reasons describing why" circle-jerk you see everywhere regarding this series. Ugh.

[Lemnear]

You can say what you want, my favorite is and will always be Mega Man 8 (PSX), i literally like everything about that game, except maybe the final stage.

Stage Select
Frost Man Stage
Opening Stage (Above Ground)

[BareKnuckleRoo]

And here's the thread devolving into the annual "here's my list of favorite mega mans, with the most arbitrary reasons describing why" circle-jerk you see everywhere regarding this series. Ugh.

It was in response to "I ended up with MM6 at the top of my list, which is quite at odds with how many people rank the classic games." and I wasn't really sure how I felt about some of the games until I thought about it, but I've put it under a spoiler tag to allow you to get back to circle jerking about how the bad the late era MMX games without your boner deflating.

[BrianC]

6 is one of my favorites too. I love the Rush adapters. I also like IV and V on GB quite a bit. The color hack of V is incredible.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

6 is one of my favorites too. I love the Rush adapters. I also like IV and V on GB quite a bit. The color hack of V is incredible.

I didn't know V had a colour hack! I played it using a Super Gameboy which made it look pretty nice. The later GB games are great, V in particular is on par with the NES games and feels really fun, not just a stripped down/retooled handheld port like some of the GB games. Have you tried Revenge of the Gator? It has a GBC hack that added color and removed some slowdown of the original, it was amazingly well done.

[Sima Tuna]

MM5 game boy is legit one of the best classic games. So many interesting original ideas and themes.

[BrianC]

6 is one of my favorites too. I love the Rush adapters. I also like IV and V on GB quite a bit. The color hack of V is incredible.

I didn't know V had a colour hack! I played it using a Super Gameboy which made it look pretty nice. The later GB games are great, V in particular is on par with the NES games and feels really fun, not just a stripped down/retooled handheld port like some of the GB games. Have you tried Revenge of the Gator? It has a GBC hack that added color and removed some slowdown of the original, it was amazingly well done.

Yes! Revenge of the Gator is good stuff and I love that hack!

[Sumez]

Fuck, the OG 6 classic Mega Man games are all so good. 4 is the best of them, but really, who cares how you rank them internally when none of them are remotely bad.