jpj wrote:yeah, ikaruga does require two credits for that. the only other game i know of that lets you play it two-player (or double-play) on a credit is.......raiden 4 i know you really love the double-play aspect of raiden 3. maybe it's a question of semantics, but "game" to me means a product. whereas "mode" is the rules/parameters. ie one "game" can have many "modes" - eg mushihimesama
That's not entirely correct either: we don't vote for the "product" Zanac X Zanac, but for the games Zanac Neo or Zanac FC.
A product can compile more than a game. Games offer a great deal of options and modes.
It's a hard one this. I tend to think of a game as what you get in the box, and agree with Zebra Airforce and Herr Schaten's angle on this in the most part. It seems really daft to count the different modes/versions on a disk as different games, but then if those different modes are from different PCB games where do you draw the line?
And what counts as a compilation? That's really at the crux of what should be allowed as one game, if you can't vote for compilations. Thunder Force Gold Vol. 1 is, Raiden Project is, but is Ibara PS2 and other 'compilations' of different PCB modes...
For me, in a compilation every game has the same weight and the same emphasis put on. That's what separates TF Gold and Zanac X Zanac from Ibara and ESPGaluda, where arrange mode is more like a bonus rather than an additional main game. Games with different playing modes (Raiden III, Mushi) fall in the same category, only that they derive from the main game even more obviously.
I think that 'a product' is probably the best definition that can be applied. I personally don't think of Ibara as being different enough to qualify as a separate game either, but we can put it that way. Compilations don't count because those games were all released independently to begin with.
Of course, there is a certain level of graphic/gameplay/level design etc difference that makes something more obviously a 'new game', but the line is a tough one to draw. Mushi Arrange is less different from Maniac than Ibara Arrange is different from regular Ibara, but both were only created for their relative PS2 ports. Something like Raiden DX, OTOH, is much more of a 'new game' than either (Metal Slug X could fall in this category as well), but had it originally been released as a bonus for the console version of Raiden 2 and not as an arcade game, we probably would be voting for 'Raiden 2/DX PSX' and not just Raiden DX.
We here shall not rest until we have made a drawing-room of your shaft, and if you do not all finally go down to your doom in patent-leather shoes, then you shall not go at all.
For me, in a compilation every game has the same weight and the same emphasis put on. That's what separates TF Gold and Zanac X Zanac from Ibara and ESPGaluda, where arrange mode is more like a bonus rather than an additional main game. Games with different playing modes (Raiden III, Mushi) fall in the same category, only that they derive from the main game even more obviously.
Yes - totally agree - very good way of putting it, and clears up exactly where I was unsure...
PROMETHEUS wrote:dodonpachi doesn't deserve #1 but I still wish it to be #1 !
Me too. DDP represents the genre in a way no other game does (except maybe for R-Type). In fact DDP defines the genre. Therefore it's a #1 most people can agree on, right?
I'd have less problems with seeing it go if the next contenders weren't the bunch of Treasure games and Battle Garegga. While I don't debate the quality of those titles, they are notorious for their outside-the-box thinking, thus lacking the representative and defining quality the number 1 should have.
Herr Schatten wrote:Battle Garegga. While I don't debate the quality of those titles, they are notorious for their outside-the-box thinking, thus lacking the representative and defining quality the number 1 should have.
I disagree !
Most people simply can't 1cc every shooter on earth.
To me this list represents the top 25 of what people enjoy to play.
Not what should be considered the best shmup because of the most excellent scoring system or whatever.
Battle Garegga is a very cool and enjoyable game,even if it kicks your ass beyond belief.
Anyway this is just an amateur list for amateurs done by amateurs using some amateurish scoring system.
It shouldn't be taken too seriously really.
All errors are intentional but mistakes could have been made.
PROMETHEUS wrote:dodonpachi doesn't deserve #1 but I still wish it to be #1 !
Me too. DDP represents the genre in a way no other game does (except maybe for R-Type). In fact DDP defines the genre. Therefore it's a #1 most people can agree on, right?
I'd have less problems with seeing it go if the next contenders weren't the bunch of Treasure games and Battle Garegga. While I don't debate the quality of those titles, they are notorious for their outside-the-box thinking, thus lacking the representative and defining quality the number 1 should have.
Yeah, but it being #1 for all these years had little to do with deserving it - it had more to do with the fact that DDP is a second installment in a very short series. Gradius and R-Type votes are fragmented into a myriad of episodes, while DDP votes were concentrated on that single game.
Now that finally more people have access to DOJ, Pachi pie must be sliced...
i know you really love the double-play aspect of raiden 3. maybe it's a question of semantics, but "game" to me means a product. whereas "mode" is the rules/parameters. ie one "game" can have many "modes" - eg mushihimesama
