Recommended Anime/Manga?

[Raytrace]

Gundam Built fighters... What happened to you Sunrise? You used to be so cool.

I dunno I'm looking forward to that as someone who likes Plawres Sanshiro and loved Beginning G, then again I would be FAR more excited if it was strictly UC.

That and for pure wtf are they going to do nowness I suppose Valvrave are all that I could see in the list.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Also worth noting is this one of the few shows in which a character that doesn't have tentacles gets some pussy.

Watch Sunabouzu (a.k.a. Desert Punk).

[NTSC-J]

So yeah... what the fuck happened to the industry from the 90's on? Worth another thread.

I'm not even sure I could bear it. Spent the past week watching this trailer over and over again trying to hold back the tears.

[Obiwanshinobi]

Watching Tsubasa Reservoir Chronicle, I'm wondering where archeologists in depicted world get funds from and how come they are so straight edge.

Besides, I can live just fine off my work excavating the ruins.

They must have civilisation there. Any more manga/anime than Gintama about shounen manga dudes trying to make both ends meet?

[Randorama]

maybe MZ23 was slight influence on GITS?

either way it doesn't matter, imo Megazone 23 should be way better known than it is.

I wouldn't exclude it. Shirow was actually a closet otaku and sci-fi enthusiast, although in his works what really emerges is his passion for philosophy and speculative fiction (the more "mature" branch of sci-fi). I am sure that the author (Hiroichi Maruyama?) of Megazone 23 is also an expert of sci-fi and more adult themes. The good writers usually are well-read.

the rest

Mainstream anglo fans did not even have a chance to watch anime on tv before the 2000s, and even now the imported anime are those that can have general appeal. In continental Europe and Latin America, we grew up with anything from DB to Honneamise. So, I guess that the general weeaboo or the general Ghibli hipster has at least a small excuse to be a total ignorant about the subject matter. Which really means: people, please do not start once more whinging about modern anime, and just share/enjoy. Cheers!

[Raytrace]

Mainstream anglo fans did not even have a chance to watch anime on tv before the 2000s, and even now the imported anime are those that can have general appeal. In continental Europe and Latin America, we grew up with anything from DB to Honneamise. So, I guess that the general weeaboo or the general Ghibli hipster has at least a small excuse to be a total ignorant about the subject matter. Which really means: people, please do not start once more whinging about modern anime, and just share/enjoy. Cheers!

well I suppose you're right but then again the internet exists nowadays so you can at least check out something at some depth, rather than just prattling on about the only anime western film critics seem to like (i.e. Ghibli), this isn't the modern anime sucks talk, I'm just talking about what people think is anime.

[GaijinPunch]

So yeah... what the fuck happened to the industry from the 90's on? Worth another thread.

I'm not even sure I could bear it. Spent the past week watching this trailer over and over again trying to hold back the tears.

You should follow the link at the first of the video -- I post there sometimes.

[Randorama]

well I suppose you're right but then again the internet exists nowadays so you can at least check out something at some depth, rather than just prattling on about the only anime western film critics seem to like (i.e. Ghibli), this isn't the modern anime sucks talk, I'm just talking about what people think is anime.

So, once more, here is my question. This is the recommended anime thread, so:

why you are talking about what people think is anime?

If you (you=Raytrace, GP, etc.) guys can go and resurrect the old thread, it would be nice for those of us who can't really appreciate the broken-record/Jesus freak.style whinging.

Thanks for your cooperation.

[Raytrace]

While talking about things you recommend it is fairly difficult to NEVER reference things you don't - having said that just because I had Naruto and fucking Bleach in my list did not mean I was slagging modern anime in general at the time, of which I watch quite a lot.

Also in a thread about recommended anime and manga, I think it is fair enough to question what is usually recommended.

Or do you want this thread to literally be a list of titles with reviews?

[drauch]

The pre-2000 anime fan didn't have access to anime? What?

There are loads of anime that were on VHS, Laser Disc, and even DVD before that point. Not to mention there have always been fanzines and groups, as well as plenty of Americanized shows. When Cartoon network first started in the early 90s they used to show a lot of different movies and OVAs. Hell, that's how I first saw Twilight of the Cockroaches, a film that still doesn't have a physical R1 release--or fanbase, for that matter! HBO, Cinemax, and other channels also showed a bit of anime movies and OVAs. The stuff has always been around, yeah, but certainly not as prevalent. It's still pretty ignorant for the average "fan" to shout Ghibli or Akira anytime anime is brought up. This is just people, though: they take what they get, and don't go looking for more. Same thing goes for anything: books, movies, music, games, whatever. The masses are ignorant to the rest of the world that isn't crammed down their throat.

Not slamming modern anime in any way, but definitely the modern fan who has no excuse!

[GaijinPunch]

What raytrace said. I was recommending Megazone23 and illustrating in basically a single sentence it's detachment of just about all anime... Not just modern.

CG has taken a lot of character out of the medium though. I will not deny that has a huge impact on my opinion of modern stuff.

[Randorama]

While talking about things you recommend it is fairly difficult to NEVER reference things you don't -

Practice makes perfect. If you guys would at least try...

Also in a thread about recommended anime and manga, I think it is fair enough to question what is usually recommended.

Or do you want this thread to literally be a list of titles with reviews?

I'd like to, but I cannot force you gentlemen to use your willpower to be constructive, rather than post endless drivel about the childhood you will never get back, and the mainstream that will never accept you as being a cool cat. This has been a problem of half of the threads on this forum since 2000 at least, but the last 2-3 years have been obnoxious. I have nothing against your posts, of course, but the whinging really grates on my nerves, in the long distance.


Anyhow, I am going off-topic. Since nobody really gives a shit of being on-topic and feels authorized to rant endlessly, once at least one person starts the "heroin crackheads whinging session online" (with free fisting!), I'll write down my two cents, too. Eugenics comes for free, as usual.


On to other posts:

The pre-2000 anime fan didn't have access to anime? What?

There are loads of anime that were on VHS, Laser Disc, and even DVD before that point

And that was a small market for dedicated fans, rather than a big market of shows displayed on tv. France has a generation could "Albator generation" (Daft Punk's age, roughly), because of the influence of Matsumoto's anime on then-children, stemming from an anime shown on free tv. When masses get good products for free, chances are that their average taste improves, for the most part. In fact you point out the problem in your post, which I do not quote again to keep my post short and readable. After all: HBO is not free, is it?

was recommending Megazone23 and illustrating in basically a single sentence its detachment of just about all anime... Not just modern.

Time to get really snarky: this one?

So yeah... what the fuck happened to the industry from the 90's on? Worth another thread.

My answer to your question, once more (like, fourth time in 2 years?): usual japanese approach to production, shrinking market, aging demographics, conservative approach to themes and tropes to be used in anime,... created a market in which well-written (good lines, decent characterization, proper plots) but not intellectually challenging stories could flourish, and garbage would slowly but steadily increase in percentage (and lolis would triumph).

In other words, it's Japan going down the drain, the factor that is at fault here. Anime held well, but at a certain price: do not expect a new Ashita no Joe (class 1968, btw: smart animes died in 70s, to be honest), any time soon. And even in the '80s, good, intelligent, stimulating plots were not safe from the pit-falls of public stupidity: how much Honneamise bombed, thanks to its remarkably well-thought plot, intelligent topics and original settings? Why Megazone 23 became an OVA, as the sponsors retired the funding mid-season, when it had a great & innovative plot? What factors saved Akira and Ghost, instead? Etc.

In general, I do not see how CG or lack of mechas in space (i.e the shallow eye-candy) are a big issue, when plots lost bite at least 20 years ago, with some good exceptions (Kenshin and its portrayal of the Meiji era). Authors do not dare much these days and, if they do, they usually tend to do it in a pretentious way: Evangelion, but also Ergo Proxy, and so on.

Oh, and lest I forget: for those of you who lament the demise of good sci-fi in anime...good sci-fi has been in bad shape for a while now, even at - no, especially at - a literary level. Once more, anime is following general trends, unsurprisingly enough. Please remind me a good sci-fi tv show, or a good sci-fi movie (aside Prometheus of course).

[Raytrace]

I'd like to, but I cannot force you gentlemen to use your willpower to be constructive, rather than post endless drivel about the childhood you will never get back, and the mainstream that will never accept you as being a cool cat.

that does not apply to me, as the only anime I had watched before about 2 years ago was 2 or 3 of the Manga Ltd VHS's in the early 90s (and those were in friends houses so I wasn't exactly concentrating too much). The only 'anime' in my childhood were I suppose: Battle Of The Planets, Muskahounds (or wotever it's called) and Ulysses 31. In fact the first anime I watched in it's entirety was Neon Genesis Evangelion.

anywayz -

watched second episode of Utena - still don't really know what's going on, but I do love it's ultra-stylized look, which is kinda weird as I'm not usually into them pointy chins too much, then again it's so consistent and confidently done in this that emm I like it, if that makes any sense.

Started to read Rose Of Versailles manga, so far it is pretty much the exact same as the anime, which I love.

I also finished 2001 Nights manga, thoroughly enjoyed it, and I'm also a sucker for any kinda 'holding out your love for someone time travelling' type storylines, clichéd as they may be, so I loved that bit.

I'm at episode 55 of Mazinger Z, don't know if I could wholeheartedly 'recommend' it, especially in the only currently extant subs, unless you're REALLY into Super Robots, but I am enjoying it a good bit, and my children love it. There seems to be a marked artistic improvement from about episode 53 on, with Mazinger Z himself finally getting a vaguely athletic looking body, and doing a few more walking animations than his usual lazy movements. Also much more use of different angles etc. and even some circling around him camera animations. In episode 55 he skis! Do they bother to make the trees look small as they use the same backgrounds they used for Shiro etc. when they were skiing? OF course not! :p

I'm at episode 21 of Space Adventure Cobra and still I can't even think of an episode I didn't enjoy all the way through, the whole 'rugball' arc was brilliant.

[KAI]

still don't really know what's going on

You never know what's going on in Utena, never.

[Raytrace]

still don't really know what's going on

You never know what's going on in Utena, never.

oh well - the audio and visual overload is enough to keep me interested anyways

[drauch]

I certainly envy France for that, and I don't know where you're from, but there isn't any free television around here that shows anything other than news, sports, and the occasional sitcom or educational program.

I dunno, I just can't cut humans any slack, really. I'm not saying my tastes are exquisite or that I grew up privileged, but when I see something I like--or that I don't like, for that matter--I seek out more, or something better and more appealing. This world is too expansive and diverse to accept whatever just falls in your lap. I guess if someone is fine with whatever they hear or see, then good for them, but there's probably a thousand things out there they would find even more fascinating and exciting.

This is certainly my misanthropy pouring out, and I'm quite ready to admit it, but the average automaton human disturbs me. Not trying to choose sides in the current argument with you and Raytrace, but like he said, a couple of years back when he came here he hadn't seen much anime. He knew what he liked, and he wanted to discover more of it. I presume a large majority of this forum even discovered a couple of shmups, realized they liked and appreciated what they played, and tried to seek out more similar games. I respect that.

I'm just hateful as fuck and hate people. But I love anime!

[Ganelon]

And that was a small market for dedicated fans, rather than a big market of shows displayed on tv. France has a generation could "Albator generation" (Daft Punk's age, roughly), because of the influence of Matsumoto's anime on then-children, stemming from an anime shown on free tv. When masses get good products for free, chances are that their average taste improves, for the most part. In fact you point out the problem in your post, which I do not quote again to keep my post short and readable. After all: HBO is not free, is it?

The US had a continuous stream of popular anime on free network TV through the decades but public mindset tended to group the older stuff with US cartoons instead of anime for some reason. Speed Racer (Mach Go Go Go) seemed as American as Scooby Doo. Battle of the Planets and Star Blazers just seemed to offer some more sci-fi action compared to Super Friends in a decade when the US was lacking in "serious" action cartoons. Robotech (Macross / Southern Cross / Mospeada),Voltron (Golion), and Battle of the Planets (Gachaman) didn't really look out of place next to He-Man, Galaxy Rangers, and SilverHawks. Then you have outsourced hybrids like Transformers and ThunderCats that were pretty much tailored to look American.

Dragon Ball was probably one of the earliest instances of US anime where a cartoon felt distinctively Asian, and that could be because of the Asian motifs within the cartoon than the art style itself. Sailor Moon established a large presence too—bigger than earlier attempts at female-oriented cartoons such as She-Ra and Jewel Riders and big enough for Cartoon Network to follow up years later for its initial Toonami run. That's before HBO's occasional random series, Sci-Fi's Saturday Anime on cable, and Encore Action's anime shows on premium services.

Plus, I'm not sure how prevalent video rentals are in Europe but here in the US, my local video stores already had shelves of anime for rental and purchase by the mid-90s. While not really mainstream, that dedication of floorspace (almost as much as for the games of a single 16-bit console) suggests there was ample opportunity for potential anime fans to pick out something interesting. I'm not sure what the original argument was but I just wanted to clear up the situation here for anyone not clear on the history of US anime.

It's interesting how little US anime fans tend to talk about pre-90s localized anime though (Robotech excepting). Perhaps there's still the idea that they aren't "anime" enough or maybe it's because western anime fans have very specific tastes (mecha, fighting, relatable comedy), which many of these shows don't represent. And it's likely why so many lesser known action and children's anime that don't fit these genres tend to be completely ignored by western anime fans.

As for the state of anime, anybody who really cares can just make some searches. Nothing much has changed in the last 2 years that I can tell. The only thing I'll reiterate is that different people watch anime for different reasons. A better, less trodden question might be: "what situation first made you realize anime wasn't going where you wanted?"

[PC Engine Fan X!]

I recall at the local Blockbuster in Turlock, CA had a huge selection of anime to view back in the early-to-mid 1990s. There was an anime club at the Stanislaus State, so the local Blockbuster was more than willing to cater to that fanbase easily. Plus, it carried some of the more experimental animation titles like "The 22nd International Tournee of Animation" on VHS tape format (it was shown it's entirety at the Castro art film house in San Francisco back in 1992 during it's initial run).

Sadly, most of the local brick 'n' mortar Blockbusters locations around the Greater Modesto, CA area have gone out of business due to the popularity of the prevalent RedBox rental kiosks inside & outside retail establishments (like grocery stores, Wal-Mart, gas stations, etc) and Netflix's streaming services -- it's the end of an era for Blockbuster. You might recall when the American based Major Video rental chain was bought out by Blockbuster Video back in the late '80s and they eventually became the premire destination to rent the usual VHS & occasional LDs at that current point in time. Major Video had some anime titles to rent on VHS format back in the early 1990s (but they were notorious for asking for your social security number if you wanted to rent a video -- WTF!?) -- same could be said with the Hollywood Video rental chain stocking a small selection of anime VHS rentals back in the early 1990s as well. Even renting an anime title on Redbox is quite sparse, perhaps one title at the bare minimum if at all. Sure, I've seen the Blockbuster Express self-service rental kiosks but they're not as widely available as the Redbox ones indeed.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[BryanM]

Kind of looking forward to Kyōkai no Kanata. Kyoani already made us 10 year old girls with Haruhi, then super gay with Free... So moe blood-wizard girl could be decent. Expectation gauge is set to a firm 3/5 icycalms.

RedBox rental kiosks

It really kind of amazes that fast food jobs haven't been automated away like this yet. Slowpokes.

Maybe in four decades or so we can have that Animutron 5,000 to make each and every one of us a special snowflake animu that never ends just for us. In the meantime I can't be so much of an old crusty curmudgeon on the industry; watched a couple dozen series so far these past couple years at almost completely random - liked 6 of them, not ashamed of 2 of them... that's a pretty healthy hit rate. Roughly 90% of everything has been and always will be crap, according to the powers of science, after all.

[GaijinPunch]

I'd like to, but I cannot force you gentlemen to use your willpower to be constructive, rather than post endless drivel about the childhood you will never get back,

I don't think you really read my post.

and the mainstream that will never accept you as being a cool cat.

I really don't need the mainstream to except me as a cool cat, now do I?


Distrikt 12 by gaijin_punch, on Flickr

[Randorama]

This is certainly my misanthropy pouring out, and I'm quite ready to admit it, but the average automaton human disturbs me.

Fine, but I am more interested to hear tips about anime and manga, from you guys. If modern anime sucks and good anime are few and far in between, then relevant information about the good ones is far more helpful than rants about the crappy ones, isn't it?

And for those of you of who want to conclude the off-topic:


Again, I was priviliged enough to grow up with anime/manga on tv for free (I am Italian), although the first generation was my father's, who watched Ashita no Joe on the first public channel ('71, and he was 17). My mom grew up with the girl from shin attack, the volleyball anime, as a role-model. Her younger brother, my uncle, was a fan of Mazinger Z (drivel), and Versailles no bara (masterpiece!). In fact, my father complained about modern anime being crap...in the '80s, when I wanted to watch Hokuto no Ken instead of Miyazaki's Heidi and Conan. My wife was not so lucky (she is S. Korean). In fact, she still forces me to watch Naruto, and similar drivel. Mind you: Narutards and the like abound in Europe as well, so it's not like the average modern western kid is safe from garbage, regardless of the country.



Just to close off:

I don't think you really read my post.

Half of it contained an aside on shaving pubes; the other half contained a quick, hasty review of an anime that had a bizarre publication story, plus a comment on why anime sucks sine the '90s onwards. Mind you: we (me and wife) are watching Megazone 23, so it is not like your suggestion went to waste; on the contrary.

Should we ever meet, we can talk anime and I will pay the drinks, to make up for the snarkyness.

I really don't need the mainstream to except me as a cool cat, now do I?

...and how many "why the mainstream does not accept us" posts we get, per day?

Besides, pink is not your colour, you should try lavender or something darker, I think (or get a darker tone of sun-tan).

[GaijinPunch]

Half of it contained an aside on shaving pubes;

That was not a jab at anime, in the least.

the other half contained a quick, hasty review of an anime that had a bizarre publication story, plus a comment on why anime sucks sine the '90s onwards.

Not really -- I just made a comment on a certain element that is mysteriously absent from most production in the genre... pre and post 90's. Definitely more as time goes on. This isn't only anime, but Japanese pop culture in general. It could get it's own thread. It could get a dissertation really.

Should we ever meet, we can talk anime and I will pay the drinks, to make up for the snarkyness.

Word.

...and how many "why the mainstream does not accept us" posts we get, per day?

Honestly, I don't know. I don't really read all the threads here, and participate in less. I don't think my hobbies have ever fallen in the mainstream.

Besides, pink is not your colour, you should try lavender or something darker, I think (or get a darker tone of sun-tan).

I was quite tan... any more would have been dangerous. The pink ensemble was the GF's, not mine. I just borrowed it.

[Bananamatic]

There are people in this thread who haven't watched MD Geist

[Raytrace]

There are people in this thread who haven't watched MD Geist

I wouldn't say many o_O

[Randorama]

Not really -- I just made a comment on a certain element that is mysteriously absent from most production in the genre... pre and post 90's. Definitely more as time goes on. This isn't only anime, but Japanese pop culture in general. It could get it's own thread. It could get a dissertation really.

Well, at least on (western) pop music, there are studies showing that pop music is an inherently, inward-looking genre that has become deeply repetitive and "louder", over the decades. Songs became simpler and simpler, as producers just focused on the ever-shrinking set of melodies that they knew as being successful, and increased "the volume" to sell said songs. I wouldn't be surprised if some equivalent pattern can be found across other aspects of pop culture, across media and countries. But that's a job for someone else to carry out. This, provided that we are talking about the industry in the most general sense (definite descriptions are context-sensitive, so...).

Btw: have I suggested kuragehime? It is quite hilarious, if only because of the absurd characters (female otaku+cross-dressers).

[Ruldra]

Distrikt 12 by gaijin_punch, on Flickr

You look fabulous GP. Should've posted that in the Picture Week thread.

[GaijinPunch]

Well, at least on (western) pop music, there are studies showing that pop music is an inherently, inward-looking genre that has become deeply repetitive and "louder", over the decades.

Oh, it's shit across the board for the most part. I hate-love the Asian stuff a little better b/c it's generally got 1) a slightly more noticeable layer of cheese, usually do to some really ill-thought out Engrish line, and 2) [biased, I know] seeing grown men [often white] blindly following it b/c they're otaku.

I'm a music bitch though, I will admit it. I love all kinds, but hate most.

You look fabulous GP. Should've posted that in the Picture Week thread.

Not aware of that thread. I felt in shape for weeks until I posed w/ these guys. Gotta go crazy on the training for 2014.

[Raytrace]

GP - it is really difficult for me to disassociate you from your av haha

[GaijinPunch]

I've been told that many times. And while I'm still man-crushing on Tobias Funke, our physiques are nothing alike. I have an enviable mane, no bender mustache, quite tall, and relatively fit considering I'm fucking 38.

[tinotormed]

These are the ones that I have done by far and currently watching. Comment on my blog what I should watch next and I may do my best on catching up on them.