Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[Ed Oscuro]

At least if the M2's service manual is any hint, it would seem like that'd actually be changeable via the service menu.

What's this hint? I don't know what you're referring to. Sony would have wanted that string to be reliable, and I'm guessing it's just text saved in a ROM somewhere. In any case, there wasn't any motivation to mess with it for money.

[Decoryah]

Little update. I got hold of the seller and he told me that the monitor was bought initially for editing purposes and main requirement was to have a monitor that uses EBU standard for colors. So as PVM-20M4E is EBU monitor and PVM-20M2E is not I think it's maybe safe to say that my monitor is the better model. He had not noticed model differencies between back label and OSD menu.

Because I found the same mislabeling in that Ebay listing of same monitor model (linked that on initial post) I kinda lean towards theory that maybe they have had batch in factory where labels got mixed. I guess something like that could have happened even for company like Sony.

I didn't buy my monitor from Ebay by the way. I got it through a local auction site and picked it up myself. So it's not like the one on Ebay has same seller either.

[nissling]

Below are some pictures I took. Hopefully those help to decide if my monitor really is PVM-20M2E or PVM-20M4E.

That's an M4 (with a very good tube). The M2 is certainly softer and has extremely low black levels, which isn't apparent on your screenshots.

Judging from the Mega Man 3 select screen however it looks like you've got too much red in the white balance, although I cannot judge it without seeing it in person.

[accaris]

Opinions on Extron DVS 304 compared to something like an iScan Pro or HD? It is considerably cheaper than the latter. I know Fudoh had scheduled to review it this year, but does anyone have the quick and dirty on it?

been on my table for years. I won't review it for anything else but CHEAP 24khz upscaling (e.g. Model 2 boards). Not worth it for 240p upscaling.

A quick update on this, since I actually bought the DVS 304. First of all, strictly for composite, the quality is superior to the iScan Plus or Pro and probably the HD/HD+. Testing the NES, the picture looked more natural and the comb filter was actually better than the iScan. There was also less lag. Downside was edge ringing, which was more prominent than the iScan, but dialing the detail down to 30% made it look fine (for composite.) I was actually a little surprised at the quality, but then again, this was a $1500 machine when it was new.

The DVS 304 supports composite sync, sync on green, and H/V sync, so I'm not sure that a sync stripper would be necessary for NeoGeo or anything else. It has fairly robust tuning options. Also, Dsub to YPbPr breakout cable worked just fine.

As for 240p, since my only test so far has been composite, I can't comment on RGB, but I'd imagine that if it's even remotely as clean as an iScan, it'd be worth a shot, just due to being MUCH cheaper and also supporting 1080p. There is also a DVI version of the DVS 304 out there.

[Fudoh]

If you end up using a RGB source on it, post some snapshots. It's been 2 years or so since I tried the machine and maybe it's worth a second test run

[Blair]

found this video of the 304 with RGB, looks kinda neat. (especially when paired with an SLG) (which seems like a must to punch down some of that ringing)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os_R0rPtr5s


anyone ever test the input lag on one of these?

*edit*

the person on this gaming blog seems to indicate that input leg on the 304 is around 20-26 ms

http://www.vegettoex.com/2009/05/18/hdt ... pressions/

[werk91]

found this video of the 304 with RGB, looks kinda neat. (especially when paired with an SLG)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os_R0rPtr5s


anyone ever test the input lag on one of these?

*edit*

the person on this gaming blog seems to indicate that input leg on the 304 is around 20-26 ms

http://www.vegettoex.com/2009/05/18/hdt ... pressions/

Looks nice indeed. From a quick glance at ebay it seems to be the same price range as the OSSC though

[Fudoh]

with a little patience you can usually pick one up for 40-70 US$/EUR. The digital version (with DVI) out is a bit more expensive, but when you want to add a SLG unit you need just analogue anyway.

[accaris]

with a little patience you can usually pick one up for 40-70 US$/EUR. The digital version (with DVI) out is a bit more expensive, but when you want to add a SLG unit you need just analogue anyway.

Yeah, there were 2 listed for $40 shipped recently (I bought one of them, the other one expired and the owner hasn't relisted it yet.)

found this video of the 304 with RGB, looks kinda neat. (especially when paired with an SLG) (which seems like a must to punch down some of that ringing)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=os_R0rPtr5s
anyone ever test the input lag on one of these?
http://www.vegettoex.com/2009/05/18/hdt ... pressions/

It's a shame that video has the guy testing on an ancient HP LCD screen. On my TV the colors and contrast look MUCH better, but I need to get an RGB cable to test with SNES.

The lag definitely seemed less than an iScan HD, which is my only frame of reference (never had a Framemeister.) The iScan has 2 frames of lag and the Extron feels like 1-1.5.

[werk91]

@accaris how many systems have you tried it with? Is 50Hz completely unsupported? I wonder how good the composite scaling is for my not yet Rgb modded Famicom. I do already have a syncstrike and an SLG is planned buy so it might be a good successor to the GBS 8200 board I'm currently using. On eBay UK cheapest is currently £100 though

[WonderDunk]

Anybody had any luck connecting both 480p component inputs and 240p scart inputs through the same set of RGB BNC inputs? Manged to get it working with some cheap splitters but it left the component inputs really dark. Almost nabbed myself a second input card for my monitor but missed it ;_;.

Anybody come across any good BNC switches? I've seen a couple but they typically require the signal converted to VGA and from what I've seen round these parts thats not an ideal solution.

[Einzelherz]

Rather than attempting to find a BNC or SCART switch I just use a passive mechanical component switch. It was ~$20 on Amazon and works great. You'll still need rca to bnc converters on your monitor.

This one: https://www.amazon.com/GE-73344-Switch- ... B003ANXHWM

[WonderDunk]

Rather than attempting to find a BNC or SCART switch I just use a passive mechanical component switch. It was ~$20 on Amazon and works great. You'll still need rca to bnc converters on your monitor.

This one: https://www.amazon.com/GE-73344-Switch- ... B003ANXHWM

For the sake of $20 (or whatever it ends up costing me in the UK) I'll give that a go. Do you have any scart inputs going through that switch? How did that turn out?

[LDigital]

On a bvm d20 is there any reason why the horizontal linearity and balance don't do anything when adjusted in 240p ?

[Einzelherz]

Rather than attempting to find a BNC or SCART switch I just use a passive mechanical component switch. It was ~$20 on Amazon and works great. You'll still need rca to bnc converters on your monitor.

This one: https://www.amazon.com/GE-73344-Switch- ... B003ANXHWM

For the sake of $20 (or whatever it ends up costing me in the UK) I'll give that a go. Do you have any scart inputs going through that switch? How did that turn out?

I have an Xbox component/av cable that I attached a Scart female to going through it along with a combo plug wii/ps2/xbox component on another channel. They both work great.

I'll be adding a PC channel for mame on the future.

[accaris]

@accaris how many systems have you tried it with? Is 50Hz completely unsupported? I wonder how good the composite scaling is for my not yet Rgb modded Famicom. I do already have a syncstrike and an SLG is planned buy so it might be a good successor to the GBS 8200 board I'm currently using. On eBay UK cheapest is currently £100 though

I'm not sure why people say 50hz is unsupported, because the DVS 304 is 60/50hz and it can be manually switched to several 50hz resolutions including 576p and 480p.

[LDigital]

On a bvm d20 is there any reason why the horizontal linearity and balance don't do anything when adjusted in 240p ?

Anyone able to help on this?

In the regular options there is nothing for linearity. In the maintenance menus there are horizontal options which allow movement between 70-150 only on linearity and balance. However neither actually do anything to the image when adjusted. There are quite a few others that also have no visible affect also. Is there a pot somewhere I can adjust or am I stuck with the non working options?

Thanks

[Acer]

Hi

I have having a few problems with console display on a Sony bvm 14e5e

Both a ps1 and ps2 work perfectly (stunning image on the 240p ps1 stuff), but my modded PAL Saturn displays a rolling flickering picture - really, really bad interference - totally unusable as does the RGB modded PAL n64.

Could it be they don't like the scart to bnc cable? Or the RGB scart lead? Any advice appreciated!

Thanks in advance

[d_p 88]

Hey all, I'm trying to dip my feet into the CRT/RGB experience slowly. I figured the smart thing to do while saving up for a good broadcast monitor is to get the best screen I can to tide me over. My goal is simply to have great CRTs that don't upscale.

I could look up and compare specs for these TV's all day, but real experience with the screens is where I trust this beautifully insane community. I made a list of about 20 CRT TV's in my area that I'm willing to go pick up, but a broadcast monitor finally showed up in my area, a modest JVC BM-H1300SU, $75. The smaller size is fine for now, but is this monitor more what I'm looking for as far as true picture quality?

I still wouldn't want to miss out on a really good consumer-grade with a bigger screen which I would use as well. There are various Trinitrons, Wegas and some of the later 4:3 Sony sets around me that I'm willing to get and I know some of those models are very special.

[bobrocks95]

Hey all, I'm trying to dip my feet into the CRT/RGB experience slowly. I figured the smart thing to do while saving up for a good broadcast monitor is to get the best screen I can to tide me over. My goal is simply to have great CRTs that don't upscale.

I could look up and compare specs for these TV's all day, but real experience with the screens is where I trust this beautifully insane community. I made a list of about 20 CRT TV's in my area that I'm willing to go pick up, but a broadcast monitor finally showed up in my area, a modest JVC BM-H1300SU, $75. The smaller size is fine for now, but is this monitor more what I'm looking for as far as true picture quality?

I still wouldn't want to miss out on a really good consumer-grade with a bigger screen which I would use as well. There are various Trinitrons, Wegas and some of the later 4:3 Sony sets around me that I'm willing to get and I know some of those models are very special.

It's 750 TVL and should give you a good idea of what the professional monitors look like. I think it's a shadow mask monitor though, so it won't quite look like a PVM/BVM. Price seems fair to me, but of course you might be looking for someone who owns the same or similar set to chime in.

[Einzelherz]

It is a Shadow Mask but the JVCs are pretty good in that regard. A slightly less hard picture than a Aperture Grille.

[d_p 88]

Thanks! Now, has anyone heard anything good about any of these sets/monitors?

KV-24FS100
KV-27XBR25
KV-24FS100
KV-27FS13
KV-27FV15
KV-27XBR25
KV-32FS200
KV-35V65
KV-36FS120
KV-36FV15
KV-40XBR800
KV-40XBR700
Silicon Graphics GDM-20E21
TOSHIBA 27AF42
TOSHIBA CF36H40
TOSHIBA MD20FP3
ViewSonic A110
Envision EFT920

[FinalBaton]

KV-40XBR800
KV-40XBR700

Trinitron FD tube(flatscreen). Hi-scan (1080i)

KV-27XBR25

Trinitron Microblack tube. 480i. S-video input
This is supposedly a quite capable tube.

KV-24FS100
KV-27FS13
KV-27FV15
KV-32FS200
KV-36FS120
KV-36FV15

Trinitron FD tube(flatscreen). 480i. Component input.
Last lineup of 480i CRTs by Sony in North America. Some of these are a bit better than other in that group, with the FV300 and FV310 being the higher end of that lineup.

Silicon Graphics GDM-20E21

This looks like a rebranded Sony GDM monitor(but I'm not 100% sure). Those are multisync but won't sync lower than 31kHz

[bobrocks95]

Another page confirmed that the GDM is a rebranded Sony monitor. If it was actually used with Silicon Graphics workstations it's probably a high-quality one, if you're in the market for a PC CRT.

[Blair]

I always thought that some of those Silicon Graphics monitors had weird proprietary connectors to work with the video output on some of those workstations, I might be wrong though. I remember going through a box of SGI cables and finding connectors I didn't recognize for the various monitors, but there was also tons of BNC-4 cables so maybe they had more than one output method.

I remember drooling over those workstations as a kid when I saw some at electronics show, although if I had one back then I probably wouldn't have been able to do much with them. my childlike mind assumed it would have been able to play amazing looking video games and even make some, lol (were those things ever Windows 95/ IBM DOS compatible? I remember learning years later that they had a specific operating system)

[andy251203]

You're right -- Some SGI monitors use a 13W3 connector instead of the typical HD15. It is possible to get a HD15 to 13W3 cable or adapter though, so it's not a big deal. Just make sure you specify SGI pinout, as Sun Microsystems also used the same connector with a different pinout.

[accaris]

I'm about to test the Extron DVS 204 and a 304 with RGB to see how it looks. Before I do that, quick question... the Extron supports RGB input through this configuration:



With that being said, assuming I have a SCART to BNC breakout cable, is this cable what I should be looking for to connect to the Extron?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RGB-5-BNC-Femal ... xyhodRxOAj

I'm assuming so, but I just wanted to ask the experts.

[Blair]

I'm about to test the Extron DVS 204 and a 304 with RGB to see how it looks. Before I do that, quick question... the Extron supports RGB input through this configuration:

With that being said, assuming I have a SCART to BNC breakout cable, is this cable what I should be looking for to connect to the Extron?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RGB-5-BNC-Femal ... xyhodRxOAj

I'm assuming so, but I just wanted to ask the experts.

I'm pretty sure you should use the RGB Scart to RGBs breakout cables from wookieewin (that's what I use on my scaling hardware)

[Decoryah]

This may be stupid question but how do you save your changes in Sony BVM-20F1E's maintenance menu? Everytime I make changes it all resets back to previous ones when turning the monitor off and back on. I read in this thread before that you don't need memory card in BKM-10R to do that as it should save them internally instead.

[accaris]

I'm about to test the Extron DVS 204 and a 304 with RGB to see how it looks. Before I do that, quick question... the Extron supports RGB input through this configuration:

With that being said, assuming I have a SCART to BNC breakout cable, is this cable what I should be looking for to connect to the Extron?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RGB-5-BNC-Femal ... xyhodRxOAj

I'm assuming so, but I just wanted to ask the experts.

I'm pretty sure you should use the RGB Scart to RGBs breakout cables from wookieewin (that's what I use on my scaling hardware)

Yeah I got that part, my question was about which cable to use to connect 4- or 5-BNC RGB to 15-pin D-Sub though. The Extron accepts various kinds of RGB inputs, but only through correctly configured 15-pin D-Sub.