TUTORIAL for TVOne Corio2 240p Downscalers

[dinkelstefan]

Hi guys, I'm back again. I bought a C2-750 because the non-240p capable C2-250 fascinated me so much.
The 750 automatically scales almost every input and resolution (pixel-) perfectly to 240p when set up correctly, it's truly amazing!

I did some more tinkering with the C2-750 and it turns out, it is not only good at downscaling to 240p. But it can even upscale 240p to HDMI beautifully, with scanline support!


It took a lot of trial and error but the results are quite impressive.
For the scanline effect, you can create and upload a black & white pattern PNG your desired effect as an image and upload it as a SIS image. Then set it to the second source as an overlay.

For this I created a 480p image with alternating white and black horizontal lines.
The white parts of the image can then be keyed out with the keying settings, and the intensity can be controlled with the smoothing slider.


As the 240p source, I used a PS2 with the PS1 240P Suite over Component cables.

Check the results in the Image and Album below:

Imgur Gallery: https://imgur.com/a/41CDVor





Will add more settings, source files and sreenshots later!


The red colors are bleeding a little in my images, but that is probably due to my poor component cables.

Oh yeah does anyone know how to make image previews smaller on this forum?

[kitty666cats]

That's a really cool idea/find you've got there! That, combined with the fact that these things support full 4:4:4 color resolution makes these things even more of a sleeper hit than they already were

[fvig2001]

So I just bought a C2-750. I would like to ask do I just buy a generic DVI to component if I just plan to play on a CRT with component?

[wwse]

which one is better to choose? C2-6104A or C2-7100?
C2-6104 - 4in/1out. Analog supports RGBHV, RGBS, RGsB, YPbPr. Last fw update 18/11/2018
C2-7100 - 3in/2out. Analog supports RGBHV, RGBS, RGsB, YPbPr. Last fw update 05/06/2017

[Dochartaigh]

which one is better to choose? C2-6104A or C2-7100?
C2-6104 - 4in/1out. Analog supports RGBHV, RGBS, RGsB, YPbPr. Last fw update 18/11/2018
C2-7100 - 3in/2out. Analog supports RGBHV, RGBS, RGsB, YPbPr. Last fw update 05/06/2017

I have the C2-6104A, but am not familiar with the C2-7100. I guess it comes down to your use-case scenario. Do you ever want to output to 2x monitors at once? How many 480p+ consoles do you want to downscale? Do you use a matrix switcher to run everything to the Corio2's?

I just switched in my C2-6104A and I'm pretty sure it has 4x individual memory banks (since it supposedly has 4x C2 chips in it, since it's technically a multiviewer meant to display 4x scaled sources on 1x output screen in a ~2x2 grid). I happen to have exactly 4x 480p sources I like to downscale, so once I dial-in the geometry (width, height, centering) for each individual console, and having the Corio2 save each of those individually (unlike a normal smaller Corio2 having to adjust the geometry --only if I want it 100% absolutely perfect of course-- every time I switch consoles), really does make it SO much nicer as I switch between all those different consoles...

I will say I DO miss the ability to scale 2x sources at once though (the full-width C2-6104A replaced 2x half-width C2-2200's in my server rack) as I commonly have 4+ CRT's setup, so if that's more in-line with that you want to do, and do more often, then maybe the C2-7100 is more up your alley since it has 2x outputs. I would try to find somebody with one of these though... it could be absolutely perfect, but the older style design of the 7100 always throws me and I always worry there's some reason why these look so much different than the newer style units (like C2-400/750/2200 - and the 6104A) and might have some caveats with their programming and/or use.

[wwse]

The use case is downscaling. The ability to connect to multiple monitors at the same time would be nice. 480+ consoles - at least Dreamcast, Gamecube, PS2.

My monitors with 240p support:
1. Sony BVM A14F5M
2. Sony PVM 20L4
3. Pioneer PDP-v401

I also have:
1. 2x Sony SB-RX300D 4in/3out Active D-terminal Selector
2. 4x Sony SB-V41D 4in/1out Passive D-termina Selector
3. 2x Micomsoft XVI-2 1in/4out Active D-termina Splitter
4. Micomsoft XRGB-3
5. Micomsoft XSelect-D4
6. DVDO iScan VP30 with ABT102
7. Dreamcast VGA box HKT-8100
8. Gamecube D-terminal cable DOL-009
9. Waka Up Scan Converter SLPH-00016
10. Sony PS2 D-terminal cable SCPH-10330/VGA RGsB cable SCPH-10320/SCPH-10142 RGB Scart cable
11. Extron 201 Rxi

At least with component connection and displaying images on multiple monitors, there should be no problems. If I need something else - I can buy it in the future.

In general, I would like to connect RGBs/YUV/RGBHV each to a separate TVONE input and and output YUV/RGB to separate TVONE outputs.

C2-6104A has only 1 output. I can buy an Extron SW2 Dvi Plus(1in/2out) - but then i have to switch the output mode between RGB/YUV everytime in settings.

About С2-7100 - I don't like the design either(Looks old and ugly).

TVONE is a very rare device in my area. In addition to C2-6104A and C2-7100, there is 1 more offer - C2-2205A(which was probably the best choice for my scenario):
1. 3in - YUV via BNC, RGB via VGA, RGB/YUV via DVI
2. 2 out - RGB/YUV via VGA, RGB/YUV via DVI
But there are 3 top buttons (missing) - Freeze, Zoom and Pan. I can buy TVONE 1T-VS-558 as a donor for buttons, but I'm not sure if I can replace them.
And at the same time, on the first page of this topic it is written that the performance of the downscaling function has not been confirmed(sad). I would also like to have a remote control for it, but this is some kind of crazy rare option.

[ElBartoME]

Does anybody own the IR remote for the C2-2000 series? It would be great to archive the IR codes so other people could use it too.

[wwse]

Found that the remote from Kramer VP-701/3/4XL looks exactly the same as the TVONE IRC-5. Model Kramer XL-RM. Maybe someone will be useful. Just one offer on Ebay.

[kitty666cats]

Found that the remote from Kramer VP-701/3/4XL looks exactly the same as the TVONE IRC-5. Model Kramer XL-RM. Maybe someone will be useful. Just one offer on Ebay.

You’ll notice the Kramer’s I/O looks exactly the same as those on some of TVone’s / VineMicros’s older scan converters, haha. I’m assuming it’s Kramer who produced the rebrands and not the other way around

[ElBartoME]

You’ll notice the Kramer’s I/O looks exactly the same as those on some of TVone’s / VineMicros’s older scan converters, haha. I’m assuming it’s Kramer who produced the rebrands and not the other way around

Thanks for the VineMicros pointer. I found a remote very cheap and ordered it. Let's see if it works. I will provide the IR codes in case it does.

[kitty666cats]

No problem! I have owned a couple VineMicros scan converters... no sense spending $100 on an Extron VSC 500! I have a CorioScan Pro SG, it's interesting as it can accept input resolutions all the way down to 15kHz - so, essentially, it can also work as a transcoder/encoder. Will have to check if it passes through 240p when the source is 15kHz... kinda doubt it, but that's not what I am looking for with the more traditional scan converters anyway

[orange808]

Just so we don't post anything misleading, the Extron VSC series is the best scan converter available and I've never found anything that compares to it. The Extron is an especially strange case, because it leads in image quality, flexibility, and ease of use. It's quite good and you'll definitely notice the difference.

The older VSC 300 and VSC 900 are also good. You don't absolutely need a 500 or 700.

The other option that's really interesting is the DVDO iScan HD+, because it outputs 480i with DVDO's sub-frame latency and frame lock.

[ElBartoME]

So for the remote the one from Vinemicros works. Some buttons have a different name but they still function the same. I'm gonna see how to get the IR codes the best way and I'll put them up.

[fvig2001]

So after a lot of trouble with the 750, I fixed the weird colors by forcing all of the pixels to be visible from 16:9.

Has anyone tried packet sniffing the RS232 port? I want to make a Pi setup that switches modes:

1. 16:9
2. Chop off 4:3 borders
3. Chop off 3:2 borders

Thinking of making a Pi Zero build:

1. IR support
2. Button press support
3. LED showing activity and error
4. Toggles between the modes.

[orange808]

So after a lot of trouble with the 750, I fixed the weird colors by forcing all of the pixels to be visible from 16:9.

Has anyone tried packet sniffing the RS232 port? I want to make a Pi setup that switches modes:

1. 16:9
2. Chop off 4:3 borders
3. Chop off 3:2 borders

Thinking of making a Pi Zero build:

1. IR support
2. Button press support
3. LED showing activity and error
4. Toggles between the modes.

https://tvone.com/products/video-scalers/1t-c2-750

If you're interested in the serial port and communication protocol, it's page 36 of the manual and page 41 of the pdf on the website.

Always best to start with the manufacturer's docs.

I don't see any documentation on the C2 IR codes. You might try contacting the company and asking for some details. The worst they can do is say no.

[fvig2001]

So after a lot of trouble with the 750, I fixed the weird colors by forcing all of the pixels to be visible from 16:9.

Has anyone tried packet sniffing the RS232 port? I want to make a Pi setup that switches modes:

1. 16:9
2. Chop off 4:3 borders
3. Chop off 3:2 borders

Thinking of making a Pi Zero build:

1. IR support
2. Button press support
3. LED showing activity and error
4. Toggles between the modes.

https://tvone.com/products/video-scalers/1t-c2-750

If you're interested in the serial port and communication protocol, it's page 36 of the manual and page 41 of the pdf on the website.

Always best to start with the manufacturer's docs.

I don't see any documentation on the C2 IR codes. You might try contacting the company and asking for some details. The worst they can do is say no.

Ah no, IR is meant for just the Pi as a lazy way to press the button.

With regards to setting position and scale, will that damage the memory if I do it often since it writes to the device?

I will check the serial part out but probably will try to packet sniff it later so that I can just save the sent values.

[orange808]

With regards to setting position and scale, will that damage the memory if I do it often since it writes to the device?

I will check the serial part out but probably will try to packet sniff it later so that I can just save the sent values.

If you are going to program a Pi to send "macros" over the wire in real time, I don't see why it would cause damage to the C2. I assume you're concerned the C2 is automatically flashing the state of the machine periodically? Does the C2-750 remember its "state" after being unplugged? I use an older C2-1250 and it does not remember it's state after a cold reboot (or even a warm power cycle); it simply loads the first preset at startup.

Some C2 units can also store some custom macros on the device and you can trigger those with a single command. Although, I have no idea if the inexpensive "one task" 1T-xxx units got that capability.

[fvig2001]

With regards to setting position and scale, will that damage the memory if I do it often since it writes to the device?

I will check the serial part out but probably will try to packet sniff it later so that I can just save the sent values.

If you are going to program a Pi to send "macros" over the wire in real time, I don't see why it would cause damage to the C2. I assume you're concerned the C2 is automatically flashing the state of the machine periodically? Does the C2-750 remember its "state" after being unplugged? I use an older C2-1250 and it does not remember it's state after a cold reboot (or even a warm power cycle); it simply loads the first preset at startup.

Some C2 units can also store some custom macros on the device and you can trigger those with a single command. Although, I have no idea if the inexpensive "one task" 1T-xxx units got that capability.

It saves the position and scale at least when you press the send to unit. The settings are still applied on restart. It just doesn't save it on the preset, which is the problem. Maybe if I just use commands maybe it won't save. We'll see.

Edit:

So I noticed on default, vertical is missing 10 pixels. I can fix it by shrinking the 16:9 output's vertical by 5%. However pixel scaling doesn't have this option. Can this be done with the firmware commands?

Also can I ask for 480i settings. Thanks

[orange808]

Well, 480i timings should be easy enough to find by pointing your browser at a search engine. I also had to make adjustments to my own units. Curiously, the factory 480i timings on C2 machines don't work on some of my displays.

I didn't read through the 750's manual closely, but I assume it has all the same commands my unit accepts. I don't recall anything available in the menus that isn't also adjustable over the wire.

[fvig2001]

Anyway, I have created a Pi companion for the Corio2 750.

I use it to change position and resolution as needed as some settings are not saved:
https://github.com/fvig2001/corio750pi

On load it defaults to 16:9 240p squished

Also, is it possible to chop off borders completely? Like if I force a 16:9 to 4:3 and there's color data on the chopped parts, the colors kind of leak into the rest of the screen.

[fvig2001]

Is there any way to prevent bright screens from making the scaler have no input signal? Like on Sonic 3's SEGA logo, it shows no input briefly multiple times on the bright parts of the SEGA logo (sonic isn't on screen). Current workaround is for my Mister to use scanlines to limit brightness.

[orange808]

Is there any way to prevent bright screens from making the scaler have no input signal? Like on Sonic 3's SEGA logo, it shows no input briefly multiple times on the bright parts of the SEGA logo (sonic isn't on screen). Current workaround is for my Mister to use scanlines to limit brightness.

Can you share some more details about your setup? We need to know how the MiSTer is wired and what it's wired through. Also, need to know about your display. More information is better.

Are you certain the Corio2 is dropping out or is it your display?

Have you tested using any other cores? What about other real hardware game consoles?

[fvig2001]

Is there any way to prevent bright screens from making the scaler have no input signal? Like on Sonic 3's SEGA logo, it shows no input briefly multiple times on the bright parts of the SEGA logo (sonic isn't on screen). Current workaround is for my Mister to use scanlines to limit brightness.

Can you share some more details about your setup? We need to know how the MiSTer is wired and what it's wired through. Also, need to know about your display. More information is better.

Are you certain the Corio2 is dropping out or is it your display?

Have you tested using any other cores? What about other real hardware game consoles?

I'm pretty sure it's the Corio since it uses the background color I set when there's no input when it happens. It always occurs when the screen is relatively bright like almost most pure white. I can prevent in with the Mister by using scanlines to reduce the brightness.

It occurs on my Switch and Xbox One too. The dropping is super brief but repeatable.

Setup is:
HDMI Switch->8 way smart splitter Splitter->4 way Splitter:

a. Main TV
b. HDMI Audio extractor -> Fake 4k screen dongle
c. Corio2 -> CRT TV
d. Other TV

Corio2 uses HDMI to DVI on input, output is DVI-I to Component

Corio2 is programmed to chop 4:3 borders.
with settings:

myres = Set240p()
myres = SetShrinkH(100)
myres = SetShrinkV(95)
myres = SetPosH(0)
myres = SetPosV(100)
myres = ShrinkOn()
myres = AdvancedShrinkOn()
myres = SetPixelOutX(0)
myres = SetPixelOutY(0)
myres = SetPixelOutH(1920)
myres = SetPixelOutV(1080)

myres = SetPixelInX(0)
myres = SetPixelInY(0)
myres = SetPixelInH(1920)
myres = SetPixelInV(1080)
myres = SetTopH(-120)
myres = SetTopV(0)

myres = SetBottomH(-120)
myres = SetBottomV(0)
myres = SetZoomH(116)
myres = SetZoomV(100)
myres = SetPanH(0)
myres = SetPanV(0)

I mean easiest workaround is to use the border function but it's kinda ugly on both screens.

Also is there anyway to chop off the borders on 16:9 display without distorting the colors? I noticed that if the left side chopped border has like semi bright values, it affects the main display's colors like white becomes yellowish.

[orange808]

I'm pretty sure it's the Corio since it uses the background color I set when there's no input when it happens. It always occurs when the screen is relatively bright like almost most pure white. I can prevent in with the Mister by using scanlines to reduce the brightness.

It occurs on my Switch and Xbox One too. The dropping is super brief but repeatable.

Setup is:
HDMI Switch->8 way smart splitter Splitter->4 way Splitter:

a. Main TV
b. HDMI Audio extractor -> Fake 4k screen dongle
c. Corio2 -> CRT TV
d. Other TV

Corio2 uses HDMI to DVI on input, output is DVI-I to Component

Corio2 is programmed to chop 4:3 borders.

What model of Corio2?

I use an analog C2 machine and I've yet to see what you're experiencing. Sorry I can't help.

My current setup works this way: An Extron matrix switch is at the heart of the setup. It allows me to route signals through custom paths and take advantage of my gear. Before HDMI inputs reach my analog C2, they come through my splitter (HDMI 1.4) and an HDFury Nano GX (and into the matrix). The signal may be routed through the switch multiple times before it finally reaches the C2. For instance, some signals will make an additional stop at the Extron RGB. I rely on a sync stripper that's positioned at my SCART switch (gscartsw) and the matrix always receives clean sync from it.

It's also worth noting that when I initially started experimenting with the C2, I was wiring game machines directly to the C2 and directly to a display. I don't recall having any issues. I also used a Kramer matrix for a long time before the Extron without issues from the C2.

Before I stopped following and using MiSTer, I was feeding analog to the chain from an expansion board and using simultaneous analog (usually native) and digital (upscaled) output. I remember a remark on the forums that was particularly critical of simultaneous output, so it's possible that's been completely removed. I don't know what happened with that. Simultaneously putting out a native signal to analog displays directly and passing the upscaled HDMI to modern displays is probably the best solution. There's a matter of lower quality output on the expansion board, but you're unlikely to notice on your CRT.

Sounds like you're using an HDMI Corio2 unit. Maybe someone else can chime with their own experiences. I have one in storage somewhere, but I never really used it for anything. The analog machine makes more sense in my setup.

Have you tried wiring your game machine directly to the C2?

[fvig2001]

I'm using a 750. Anyway, after some experimentation, for some reason, bright screens does cause signal loss. I changed the setting from blue to show/freeze and it kind of fixes the issue

[orange808]

I'm using a 750. Anyway, after some experimentation, for some reason, bright screens does cause signal loss. I changed the setting from blue to show/freeze and it kind of fixes the issue

Yes. For some reason that is happening in your particular setup and it's regrettable. I looked into it today.

Just so we can avoid posting misleading or incorrect information I got out my 1T-C2-750 for testing.

As I suspected, I can not reproduce your isolated and specific issue. I cannot trigger any signal drops (or irregularities) using the Dreamcast, Wii, PC, or a test pattern generator. There is nothing inherently wrong or defective with the Corio2's ability to handle a white screen.

The 1T-C2-750 I have exhibits none of the behaviors you have blamed on the device. I've also never heard other reports of this problem. It's reasonable to conclude your issues are something specific to your video chain.

Usually best to start by investigating your cables and power supplies.

The second most likely problem is all those other devices in your video chain.

The third possibility is a defective C2 unit or maybe something with your display.

I regret your misfortune with the isolated problem you are experiencing in your specific video chain.

[cheps]

What's everyone's experience with lag? I know the OP had measured about 1.5 frames, but I remember seeing a RetroRGB video that measured about 3-4 frames on one of the Corio units.

[GalileoFigaro]

Good night

I had to open a new account because I lost access to my old one.

Some time ago I bought a TV One C2-2200A, now that I've tried it, I find some problems that I can't solve.

The equipment I am using is:
1 - PC with DVI to VGA adapter
2 - Corio TV-One C2-2200
3 - Sony BVM 20L1E

Regarding the Corio, I have followed all the tutorials on the first page.
Using the RS232 port and the recommended cable, I have updated the firmware to version 368 and loaded the XML configuration file provided by @Dochartaigh
i have a better picture but the screen not show a complete image, only 3/4



I tested with other PC with VGA native out and i have the same problem.
If I disconnect the VGA input connector in the Corio, I get a green image, which does not cover the entire screen either.



I think the problem is in the Corio and not the computer VGA.
The cable that I am using is a VGA to 5 BNCs and it works correctly, since I have tested it with a Mega SG and Analogue DAC

Has anyone else had this issue?

Thank You

[s0depop]

Hi. So I am kind of new to this process and trying to do as much research as possible. However, I'm still a little confused on what I need. I recently picked up a C2-750, which is DVI-based. I have two DVI to HDMI adapters for the inputs. I think I'm good there. But I am confused on how my output should look like? The goal is that I want to run a PS4 and Xbox One to the inputs using HDMI. And then I want to output 240p using component. What would be the best method? DVI to VGA and then to component? Also, how is everybody receiving audio on these units if they're using HDMI?

I'd appreciate any help!

Also, I apologize if this has been covered a bunch of times. I just can't seem to find everything.

[aloe]

I'm amazed I've never registered for this forum, I come across it regularly enough and recognise a few of the names from old techy enthusiast gaming forums from way back in the day. Hello, anyway! Big ol' treasure trove of information you got here.


So I have a couple of Corio units - an old CORIOscan Pro SG, and a TVOne C2-3300.

My use case is piping 2D retro games from my PC/Switch/etc via one of several HDMI/DP->VGA adapters, then via VGA->SCART adapter onto the 28" widescreen CRT I've got nearby, a consumer set, Sony KD-28DL10U. 480i/240p, and 50/60Hz of course. No component input but 1x RGB SCART and 1x s-vid SCART. Nothing exciting, just a standard PAL analogue 15.6kHz set from 2006 or so.



CORIOscan Pro SG




I got the CORIOscan Pro SG first. It was broken and needed fixing, so did that. Hooking it up was no problem, got a clean image, but the device firmware does not appear to have many user-accessible controls over the output, so it's (quite reasonably) turning RGB 480p into RGB 480i, rather than 240p. Still looks nice, and the controls are easy enough. The thing is, it has no adjustments to refresh rate on output, so if there's a mismatch between source and output I get a horizontal line crawling down the screen. I've tried feeding it 59.97, 60, 60.0001, etc and these change the periodicity of the interfering line, but I can't find the right value to get it to go away. I am assuming on PC this can be fixed with CRT emudriver or CRU or something.


I had no problem connecting the Pro SG to serial (IT day job so crappy enterprise software feels like home) and having a wander about through the thing's settings but couldn't find any way to set the output resolution to anything other than PAL or NTSC, and no monkeying with timings. I can of course adjust the timings PC-side, but that's no good for Switch or other consoles.

So anyway I decided to try the other one.


TVOne C2-3300





This is a much bigger unit, clearly more modern and more capable. It's also loud... REAL loud. If I get this unit working I am going to have to find another solution for the fan situation, I can't think straight when it's on in my living room, much less play games. Is this normal? The seller assures me it is, but I'd have thought it'd be the kiss of death for meeting room or classroom use, nobody would want to talk through a PowerPoint with that in the background. Anyway, not insurmountable - it has temp sensors so I presume it at least has a shutdown threshold if my Noctua bodge job fails.

This unit won't connect over serial for some reason, even when the baud rates etc are configured, but it doesn't really matter as it's on the latest firmware (can only be updated via serial) and the ethernet connection works fine. The software is shit, as warned. I did eventually get a 240p setting config'd in with the numbers courtesy of orange808. The first two built-in settings are [1] NTSC and [2] PAL, I've left them like that, and they downscale my VGA source to 480i just fine. Nice quality, too.

However, on the same source, when I switch over to my 240p setting, the TV goes black. I've messed with the "output settings" on the Corio here and there, it's set to RGBS but I've tried RGBHV etc. If I change the 240p setting to "interlaced" I get a garbled, chopped up screen - change "interlaced" back off and the TV goes back to a pure black screen again. Interestingly, the TV continues to display the green OSD channel number overlay, which it doesn't normally.

Cabling looks like:­DP2VGA -> Corio -> VGA to SCART -> TV
Each of these have been used elsewhere with no issues.

Any thoughts or observations?