DoDonPachi Saidaioujou coming to Xbox 360 (REGION-FREE!)

[bcass]

Cave's biggest crime this gen for me has been the complete absence of a scratch-built shmup for the 360. Seems like a missed opportunity. Also, they completely failed to capitalise on the download market (XBLA/PSN/WiiWare) which is where most of the non-domestic sales could have come from. Also, they need to hire the guy who did Sine Mora's graphics. Imagine a Cave game with those graphics?

[Formless God]

The guy who put smoke, particles and environment assets in front of player and bullet sprites and bloomed the fuck out of everything? Yeah, with such a helpful visual assistance maybe I'd actually be able to 2-ALL some of the Cave games.

[trap15]

Also, they completely failed to capitalise on the download market (XBLA/PSN/WiiWare) which is where most of the non-domestic sales could have come from.

I know it didn't sell all that well, but I think Nin2-Jump was a fantastic game, and it's still a blast to play even with my all-S (playing the game as a "speedrunning platformer")

[bcass]

The guy who put smoke, particles and environment assets in front of player and bullet sprites and bloomed the fuck out of everything? Yeah, with such a helpful visual assistance maybe I'd actually be able to 2-ALL some of the Cave games.

Errrm, no, graphic artists generally have nothing to do with where particle effects are positioned, or any of the other things you mentioned.

[Formless God]

Don't people normally call those folks concept artists instead?

[trap15]

Those people are typically called "designers"
The artists do the art, the designers place it.

[Friendly]

Cave made many mistakes in recent years, mostly related to the availability of their products. Making them available only on the most niche platform in their main market wasn't so clever. Of course Cave's fans didn't mind and just went and bought the console required, but did Cave expect to attract a new audience and get a larger market share that way? Porting their games to touchpad devices obviously wasn't such a bright idea either. Then there's the inept way they handled selling their merchandise.
Since people here are discussing upcoming Cave shooting games; how do we even know there'll be any more? Even in Japan, arcades are on their last legs, unless we are talking about UFO catchers or pachinko. Cave's financial situation seems to be detoriating rapidly, as indicated by the recent move of their office. With the closure of their online store last year, they seem to have initiated suicide.

[1up]

Cave made many mistakes in recent years, mostly related to the availability of their products. Making them available only on the most niche platform in their main market wasn't so clever. Of course Cave's fans didn't mind and just went and bought the console required, but did Cave expect to attract a new audience and get a larger market share that way?

They tried Sony but they turned them down as it was 2d games and non 16:9.

[Friendly]

They tried Sony but they turned them down as it was 2d games and non 16:9.

Source for them trying and being turned down? This is a recurring shmups-forum rumor which appears to be based on Sony's 3D-preference on PS1. There are several non-16:9 games on PSN; eg Hitogata Happa (which is a shmup, 2D and non 16:9).

[Special World]

Also, they completely failed to capitalise on the download market (XBLA/PSN/WiiWare) which is where most of the non-domestic sales could have come from.

I know it didn't sell all that well, but I think Nin2-Jump was a fantastic game, and it's still a blast to play even with my all-S (playing the game as a "speedrunning platformer")

Nin-2 jump was one of the most simple fun games I've ever played. I loved the score attack mode - it really felt like everything good about a Cave shooter in a reductionist platformer. It was kinda awesome crashing the game from item overload as well, but not really as awesome as the game NOT crashing would have been.

[BPzeBanshee]

They tried Sony but they turned them down as it was 2d games and non 16:9.

Source for them trying and being turned down? This is a recurring shmups-forum rumor which appears to be based on Sony's 3D-preference on PS1. There are several non-16:9 games on PSN; eg Hitogata Happa (which is a shmup, 2D and non 16:9).

Actually, my reliable friend's cousin's bff's grandma's sister's grandson told me that they're switching to the Hentai market to increase sales.

[AntiFritz]

They tried Sony but they turned them down as it was 2d games and non 16:9.

Source for them trying and being turned down? This is a recurring shmups-forum rumor which appears to be based on Sony's 3D-preference on PS1. There are several non-16:9 games on PSN; eg Hitogata Happa (which is a shmup, 2D and non 16:9).

Hitogata happa also is on psn, and isn't a full retail release.

[Friendly]

So? They should have released every single one of their games on PSN. If some small-time American indie publisher managed to bring Japanese doujin shmups to PSN, do you really believe there was some secret Sony conspiracy that prevented Cave from doing the same? Not tapping a potential source of income is not smart business; just like the way Cave's merchandising and online store was handled isn't smart. The conclusion seems to be: They make great shmups, but they suck at business. They'll probably pay the price, soon.

[XoPachi]

^This to the max.

May 31st I'm pretty sure, was on Cave's website.

DAMN that's a long ways away. ;-;

[pestro87]

This is just pure speculation as I don't know the sales for Ibara, ESPGaluda and Mushihimesama but maybe they went with Microsoft because their PS2 ports sold poorly?

[Jeneki]

PS2 Mushihimesama got a "Taito Best" re-release. Not that the title means anything, but it must have sold well enough to justify an extra printing.

[Skykid]

With the closure of their online store last year, they seem to have initiated suicide.

Bit like Sony with their Vita.

Cave made many mistakes in recent years, mostly related to the availability of their products. Making them available only on the most niche platform in their main market wasn't so clever. So? They should have released every single one of their games on PSN. If some small-time American indie publisher managed to bring Japanese doujin shmups to PSN, do you really believe there was some secret Sony conspiracy that prevented Cave from doing the same? Not tapping a potential source of income is not smart business; just like the way Cave's merchandising and online store was handled isn't smart. The conclusion seems to be: They make great shmups, but they suck at business. They'll probably pay the price, soon.

Seriously delicious fucking tears. You still have Mamoru-Kun and Under Defeat (the version with a buggered arcade mode and complimentary extra slowdown) to keep you occupied, and even Gaia Seed if you struggle to somehow get through the entire shmup catalogue.

Cave company limited know the consoles on the market and made the choice they felt was right for them, and stuck to it for several years. If Sony's console was a viable option at any point, they would have gone there. Companies don't usually turn their nose up at easy profit. For whatever reason, it suited them not to make that leap.

I can't believe I'm the only one tiring of this endless pro-Sony baloney. I'm being made to detest the company for no good reason.

[z0mbie90]

Doesn't it look delicious Skykid?

Fanboys are always gonna be fanboys! If CAVE didn't make something of the Xbox 360 ports I don't believe they would released more after Futari and Galuda 2 but they did

[Alfred]

Japanese Shooting games are a niche genre even in Japan. How many STG's sold on other platforms like SS,SD and PS2?. Why are Qute and Moss (I think?) making new STG's if the 360 is so bad?. Friendly is just a another hurt PS3 fanboy. Also why doe's STG's cost so much money to make?. Didn't Cave say they need $500,000 to make a new one?. If Cave lost money on every game released on Xbox 360 then why did they do so many?.

[KAI]

Kickstarter for Cave...

[Muchi Muchi Spork]

Didn't Cave say they need $500,000 to make a new one?. If Cave lost money on every game released on Xbox 360 then why did they do so many?.

I think you are twisting up a few things. At one point the head of the company said if they could sell X amount of arcade kits then they would be able to make another arcade shooting game. Then someone here did a calculation on what he estimated their income would be from that many kits sold. XBox had nothing to do with what he said.

[Alfred]

Didn't Cave say they need $500,000 to make a new one?. If Cave lost money on every game released on Xbox 360 then why did they do so many?.

I think you are twisting up a few things. At one point the head of the company said if they could sell X amount of arcade kits then they would be able to make another arcade shooting game. Then someone here did a calculation on what he estimated their income would be from that many kits sold. XBox had nothing to do with what he said.

Yeah i got it a bit wrong sorry. On facebook Cave said to Western fans buy a arcade board from them to help fund a new game. I didn't buy one sorry.

[pestro87]

Anyways, I hope that they don't patch the score overflow bug in the X360 release. This was uploaded to nico today and it has to be the best exploit of the bug so far:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20058451

EDIT: Hmm... it seems like the "bug" happens whenever the GP Bonus hits +99999... The rate that the score increases turned back to normal as soon as the GP Bonus hit counter dropped. I re-watched a couple of other "overflow videos" and the score jumped drastically when the GP Bonus hit +9999... Maybe it's not a bug after all?

[moh]

Doesn't it look delicious Skykid?

I'm actually dead starving right now. I could really go for some sony baloney ._.

[Friendly]

Also why doe's STG's cost so much money to make?´

Ye's indeed, why doe's they cost's so much? If only we knew the answer to thi's.

[trap15]

Anyways, I hope that they don't patch the score overflow bug in the X360 release. This was uploaded to nico today and it has to be the best exploit of the bug so far:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20058451

EDIT: Hmm... it seems like the "bug" happens whenever the GP Bonus hits +99999... I re-watched a couple of other "overflow videos" and it was the same in those videos as well - the score jumped drastically when the GP Bonus hit +9999... Maybe it's not a bug after all?

No, it is a bug. It jumps to +9999... after it hits a certain value, causing the GP to overflow. It's the most absurdly awful thing I've seen in a CAVE game yet, and I hope they have an option or something to turn it off.

[Special World]

tbh I hope they have separate leaderboards for playing without the bug, if they include it at all.

it's cool once but I assume most players would rather have the scoring system actually work.

[pestro87]

Anyways, I hope that they don't patch the score overflow bug in the X360 release. This was uploaded to nico today and it has to be the best exploit of the bug so far:

http://www.nicovideo.jp/watch/sm20058451

EDIT: Hmm... it seems like the "bug" happens whenever the GP Bonus hits +99999... I re-watched a couple of other "overflow videos" and it was the same in those videos as well - the score jumped drastically when the GP Bonus hit +9999... Maybe it's not a bug after all?

No, it is a bug. It jumps to +9999... after it hits a certain value, causing the GP to overflow. It's the most absurdly awful thing I've seen in a CAVE game yet, and I hope they have an option or something to turn it off.

Maybe you're right. If you look carefully at the GP Counter in the video, it looks like it turns negative at around 0:50 It's possible that it just looks like it because of the low resolution of the video but that sure looks like a minus sign to me...

An option to turn it on/off sounds like a good idea! It'll be interesting to see if Cave will address this issue in the port.

[Erppo]

I'm hopeful, considering they fixed their two last major cases of broken games in the ports (Mushi 1.5 counterstop, PS infinite lives).

[Softdrink 117]

I'm hopeful, considering they fixed their two last major cases of broken games in the ports (Mushi 1.5 counterstop, PS infinite lives).

Isn't the infinite lives thing still controversial? I thought there was some evidence to suggest they had no intention of fixing it (like an official release of the board which had the glitch AFTER a release that had been fixed, or something)...?

Either way, I agree that the scoring in SDOJ should have a no-overflow option. That way scores from the port can still compete with scores obtained from the PCB version, but legitimate play which doesn't exploit the 'trick' can still be valid. Separate leaderboards would be excellent.

Some of what's been announced sounds legitimately interesting. An image gallery would be cool (the galleries in the DOJ and Ketsui ports are really neat, although I'm just a huge sucker for concept art in general ), and depending on implementation, ingame 'upgrades' and a unique mode tailored to that feature could be kinda cool.

To be honest, I think CAVE has the right idea in trying to sucker in a larger potential fan/customer base. I'm just not sure they'll be able to succeed without partially alienating their existing supporters, if they succeed at all.