The Wii U ( WiiU ) Thread

[Skykid]

I think the ship has sailed for relaunches. It's time to do a Virtual Boy most probably.

On a positive note, I can add the Wii U to my list of successful pre-release failure predictions along with the Mega CD, Jaguar and CD-i.

[dcharlie]

Quotes below:

As of the end of the last financial year, Nintendo had around $5bn in cash assets and another $5bn in bonds. That’s $10bn essentially in the bank. Ten BILLION dollars. Which means that Nintendo could make a loss of the projected proportions for 20 or 30 years without running out of money.

this keeps coming up over and over - so i just want to address it a bit.

This whole idea that "oh, Nintendo have $10B in the bank..." - you have to appreciate that this looks pretty bad from an investors perspective. Sitting on cash and not investing it in to grow your business is, on it's own, not a great idea but there's also other issues it brings with it.

Anyways.

[Ed Oscuro]

It's interesting to compare the Wii U (and the original Wii) to the Kinect (which I don't see as being the major draw for Xbox One owners). It was the first successful take on the idea, and quite good for not involving a lot of hardware (again, compare to the Kinect's modeling of players). I don't think it would be the right thing for consumers to have the Wii series go by the wayside - though perhaps Kinect (and even Eye Toy) could fill that void, if it came to that; not to mention there's also the potential of utilizing the more or less omnipresent forward-facing cameras in smartphones to do something similar.

[replayme]

Quotes below:

As of the end of the last financial year, Nintendo had around $5bn in cash assets and another $5bn in bonds. That’s $10bn essentially in the bank. Ten BILLION dollars. Which means that Nintendo could make a loss of the projected proportions for 20 or 30 years without running out of money.

this keeps coming up over and over - so i just want to address it a bit.

This whole idea that "oh, Nintendo have $10B in the bank..." - you have to appreciate that this looks pretty bad from an investors perspective. Sitting on cash and not investing it in to grow your business is, on it's own, not a great idea but there's also other issues it brings with it.

Anyways.

Seems like a waste if they're not looking to expand their internal resources (manpower), invest in third party relations, or money hat indie and AAA exclusives.

If Nintendo aren't prepared to invest that money into themselves, then why should consumers or the industry buy into them?

Despite my unparallelled "hate" for Nintendo, I still think the Wii U (as a hardware entity) has the potential to turn it around. After all, the 3DS and XBone have both proven that people are prepared to over look hardware flaws if the games are there.

But there is little incentive for me to believe that Nintendo has the necessary acumen to carry on as a industry powerhouse. Their "investor meeting" was a joke. And confirmation of the fact that they are well out of their depth as a hardware platform holder.

Their QOL proposal was just their way of looking towards an increasingly gimmick laden future, and also acknowledging that they intend to cash in their chips and leave the gaming industry.

One thing which did intrigue me though was the notion of Nintendo "announcing" their next platforms. And with the Wii U having access to the DS catalogue, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't just repackage (and relaunch) the Wii U as the next successor to the 3DS. After all, they did something similar with the GC/Wii.

But the lack of any future announcements regarding Wii U doesn't inspire me confidence. If Nintendo wanted to, they could easily ramp up Wii U software development, and then release a portable equivalent so as to still have access to their legacy games.

Just do it the opposite way to Vita and Vita Tv.

[Ed Oscuro]

Although rationally it makes sense that a gamer would care to find the company that invests in new opportunities, the world's choices are not so transparent, and therefore here is a case which shows the silliness of trying to assume rational actors. Gamers typically do not care about who is "investing" the most; if a gamer is aware of a company's cash reserves, the more likely question to be raised is "do they have enough reserves to weather a bad period?" Of course all of this is a sideshow; all that matters for a game system now are the fruits of past decisions - developer support and the like.

Feelings about the future are down to platform fanaticism (meaningless in almost every case - I mean what does it mean to say that Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo, or Sega are thinking about the future for gamers, when so many components are made by third parties? Kinect and VR? Digital Distribution? Okay, but do those sell systems?) or fanboyism (because who cares if it's Microsoft or Sony).

To try to turn a tub aroun', I think the clear major storyline from the XbOne/PS4 launch is that traditional style games, which are still as focused on digital escapism and tangible button controllers as ever, are what are selling the most. Wii U (and Kinect and Eye Toy) are interesting as alternatives, as is VR, but tech pricing and gameplay aren't together enough to make those work for the present as well as traditional well-defined gaming ideas.

[replayme]

I get what you're saying, and notions of fanboyism aside, I really don't understand why Nintendo don't just "cheap out" and invest in a few indie titles. After all, Brothers was an indie game (which I bought full price) and the Vita has also seen its fortunes turn around somewhat after Sony have switched tack and labelled it as being the dinky little indie powerhouse.

My point is that you don't need to spend a lot of money to get these games. Most indies don't cost more than $150.000, and for a company like Nintendo, that's a drop in the ocean.

I think the fact that Nintendo aren't prepared to invest in their (and the Wii U's) future speaks volumes of how Scrooge-like their tactics have become - and no wonder they're alone. It's why I would never ever liken the Wii U to the DC - in so far as the DC actually had a ton of decent games that were really interesting. Not these cookie cutter games that are essentially HD updates or re-releases.

For all their money, Nintendo are creatively bankrupt.

If it's all about the games, then where are the games? And if the future starts today, then what steps have Nintendo taken to ensure that their future platforms will enjoy a rosy future?

I don't like kicking a dog when it's down. But Nintendo don't try... At least try, damnit. Because even God loves a loser who tries...

[Xyga]

Now available in the UK for £180.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014- ... -to-179-99

This, should have happened last year Q4.

[BryanM]

It's time to do a Virtual Boy most probably.

Either way the thing still moved 6 million units in a bit over a year. The 64 and Cube did 22-30 over ~6.

The way things are going, with a price cut down down down to 200, the thing will probably reach 20m by the end of its life span. It'll just be another shitty box people buy for Nintendo games. Whether the tablet makes it economically feasible for them to do even that much is a : |

I think the clear major storyline from the XbOne/PS4 launch is that traditional style games

The Xboner seems on track for success roughly equal to that of the Wii U. PSX4 is at least projected to overtake the U in a few months, the nextBox, perhaps never.

... which considering its TV TV TV KINECT KINECT gimmicks (+$100 pliz), does prove your point. Uh, carry on.

[EmperorIng]

of course, if you really want to play devil's advocate, the Wii U is still technically the best-selling home console this generation!

Quotes below:

As of the end of the last financial year, Nintendo had around $5bn in cash assets and another $5bn in bonds. That’s $10bn essentially in the bank. Ten BILLION dollars. Which means that Nintendo could make a loss of the projected proportions for 20 or 30 years without running out of money.

this keeps coming up over and over - so i just want to address it a bit.

This whole idea that "oh, Nintendo have $10B in the bank..." - you have to appreciate that this looks pretty bad from an investors perspective. Sitting on cash and not investing it in to grow your business is, on it's own, not a great idea but there's also other issues it brings with it.

Anyways.

A chunk of money was recently spent though making new office buildings in the US and Japan, and hiring more people. Usually investors love that type of stuff.

The Wii U would appeal to me more at a cheaper price ($200). Nintendo's success with the Wii was removing barriers between people and games. The Wii U puts up more barriers, and I think the market is reacting appropriately.

On the plus side, those that loved the Gamecube generation will be happy, because the Wii U is the Gamecube 2.0!

[trap15]

On the plus side, those that loved the Gamecube generation will be happy, because the Wii U is the Gamecube 2.0!

Gamecube best 6th gen

[Ed Oscuro]

There's really only like three Xbox games that I care about. So much power, so badly utilized.

GameCube is amazing hardware for the size. Beats the shit outta PS2 while not being as loud. Only real deficiency is the video output situation, but I guess many people should be happy using a Wii + component cables.

For a long while after I got the GameCube, I thought I had not really gotten the right value out of it. How I developed this impression - no doubt egged on by forum trolls here and there - I really can't say. It's safe to say that I don't feel that way anymore. So many great exclusives or near-exclusives and legendary games. Not having everything be branded like Halo and Mercenaries was a plus; I wasn't so young that I felt the constant need to drown myself in that "edgy" shit that got used to market too many mainstream games. That being said, I could spend a couple decades (if not lifetimes) just going through all the great (not "merely good") PlayStation 2 games.

[Friendly]

On the plus side, those that loved the Gamecube generation will be happy, because the Wii U is the Gamecube 2.0!

That's not correct. GameCube was well-supported software wise and sales were never that bad. Wii U has zero third party support left, even DLC is being cancelled now. Wii U would be incredibly lucky to come anywhere near GameCube's 20 million; as it looks now Wii U is dead. I wonder if Nintendo is even still manufacturing Wii U at the moment because they should currently have unsold stock of 5 million units or more.

[Battlesmurf]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Nintendo-zelda- ... 1085452995

Nice little sale on these things. There's a few really good exclusives out, and some more on the way. Dying or not, I think what's out there is more than enough to have fun with for awhile. The upcoming stuff looks promising. Likely not enough to turn the tides, but plenty to have fun with regardless.

Shame Nintendo dropped the ball so hard on this one, when they are on the top of their game they release some really nifty stuff.

[ZellSF]

There were 3rd party games I wanted on the Gamecube. I can't say the same for Wii U yet.

I actually want one, but I'm concerned about region locking still. Sure I could import a US Wii U, but if I wanted to take advantage of backwards compatibility without homebrew (which I haven't read up on yet) then that would be a problem as my Wii games are all PAL (I bought the Wii so late region locks were not a problem).

[Friendly]

There were 3rd party games I wanted on the Gamecube. I can't say the same for Wii U yet.

I actually want one, but I'm concerned about region locking still. Sure I could import a US Wii U, but if I wanted to take advantage of backwards compatibility without homebrew (which I haven't read up on yet) then that would be a problem as my Wii games are all PAL (I bought the Wii so late region locks were not a problem).

I'd like to get a Wii U, too, but recent dramatic events at Nintendo (Q3 earnings report, 2014 release schedule) are a strong indication that it's beyond saving at this point. I am not one to give up hope easily; for instance I always believed that PS Vita still had a chance, and I was right. But the situation for Wii U is quite different (and worrisome for Nintendo, considering that it's their flagship console).
It's probably only a matter of time until major retailers decide to use Wii U's shelf-space for other products that actually sell. At which point there'll be great deals.
I'd love for Nintendo to find a way to turn things around, but this presentation from 3 days ago speaks for itself: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/ir/en/library ... index.html
Nintendo's leadership obviously is completely and utterly clueless.

[Skykid]

^ I find that report more uplifting and honourable than clueless. That's what I like about Nintendo, they'd rather fold their doors and say they did it their way than be forced to conform to a tired common standard and ultimately make video gaming of today even duller.

I hope they stick to their guns and come up with something to carry on their recent successes. Wii U is the first blip in a string of highly profitable endeavours, and although I admit it was a bad call right from the first glimpse (I never had faith), it serves as a decent reason to go back to the drawing board.

[ZellSF]

That reminds me of another reason I'm not rushing to buy a Wii U: It has a very uncertain future. Sure that applies to other products as well, but in those cases the company behind them aren't talking about drastically changing business plans like I'm getting the impression that Nintendo is.

If they would follow their current path, I could buy a Wii U being comfortable it would get a lot of great Nintendo games over time... But I'm not sure that's what Nintendo will do.

[Skykid]

I think they'll cut it off dead. They're ruthless like that - at least have been in the past under similar circumstances. I certainly wouldn't buy one now in the hope of a decent library of first-party games. I'll probably grab one when it's bargain clearout time for £50 and a copy of 3D World.

I hear Zombie U is strangely compelling too. And some people will just use it as a Bayonetta 2 box - although I'm not overly fussed about that one.

[R-Gray 1]

Donkey Kong videos on youtube looks very very nice

BUt i left nintendo consoles since ps1 appears

[Octopod]

I think they'll cut it off dead. They're ruthless like that - at least have been in the past under similar circumstances.

When was this? If you are talking about the VB that platform failed to move even 800k units while the Wii U is at almost 6mil. I have no idea what Nintendos plans are but I'm pretty confident that they will ride it out and continue to release games for it. It is really not that horrible of an install base for a one year old console, is it?

[Friendly]

The problem is that most of those systems were sold early on and during the holiday season, and mainly in Japan. And even there sales dropped like a stone during January 2014, to levels way below early 2013. Furthermore, Wii U's software attach rate is awful, which is why no third party developer is touching it anymore. There are no more new titles in development by any big publisher; it even looks like Ubisoft may be cancelling Watch_Dogs, the last big multiplat.

[Octopod]

The problem is that most of those systems were sold early on and during the holiday season, and mainly in Japan. And even there sales dropped like a stone during January 2014, to levels way below early 2013. Furthermore, Wii U's software attach rate is awful, which is why no third party developer is touching it anymore. There are no more new titles in development by any big publisher; it even looks like Ubisoft may be cancelling Watch_Dogs, the last big multiplat.

Doesn't Nintendo traditionally move most of its consoles during the holiday season?

What is the attach rate? Anecdotal but I own 11 retail games and several eShop games. I suppose I don't represent the norm though. I have no interest in Watch Dogs and don't feel the system needs games like GTA, which I don't play anyway. I have a PS3 if I wanted games like that but I don't buy them for that system either. I am pretty disappointed that Pac-Man Museum was cancelled though as I actually wanted that on my Wii U. The only Ubisoft game I want is Child of Light so I hope that doesn't get cancelled either. I feel I have already gotten my monies worth from the system and DK, MK, Bayo 2 and X are still to come. If they feel they need to put out a new console in the next year or two I would be fine with that. I'll pre-order one just like I did my Wii U. I love getting new Nintendo hardware.

[Friendly]

Doesn't Nintendo traditionally move most of its consoles during the holiday season?

Yes, but outside of Japan holiday sales weren't all that great last year. And why should they have been? There were no new and compelling titles available. Nintendo failed to release Smash Bros and Mario Kart in time, games that should really have been there AT LAUNCH. It feels like they just missed their last chance.

[Teufel_in_Blau]

So, uuh, do you guys think we have a chance for that Fire Emblem X SMT game? Monoliths X is probably to late in development to chancel it, so I guess it will be the last big game from Nintendo on the Wii U.

[Octopod]

Doesn't Nintendo traditionally move most of its consoles during the holiday season?

Yes, but outside of Japan holiday sales weren't all that great last year. And why should they have been? There were no new and compelling titles available. Nintendo failed to release Smash Bros and Mario Kart in time, games that should really have been there AT LAUNCH. It feels they just missed their last chance.

I would say that 3D World is pretty compelling. I do understand your point though. If when all is said and done Nintendo has to basically supply all the games for their own console they need to increase their output. I think they are aware of this too which is why Iwata mentioned Nintendo was going to put some focus on mergers and acquisitions going forward. They really should have purchased Atlus for the cheap price it was going for and it is really unfortunate they were unable to purchase Bandai when they wanted to. Maybe they can get Hudson Soft from Konami. Don't most of the Hudson old guard work for Nintendo now anyhow? It would be nice if they could secure the IPs.

[Octopod]

So, uuh, do you guys think we have a chance for that Fire Emblem X SMT game? Monoliths X is probably to late in development to chancel it, so I guess it will be the last big game from Nintendo on the Wii U.

I really wouldn't count on that. I got the impression that they plan to continue supporting the Wii U from the recent investor meeting. I'm sure FE x SMT will make it out.

[replayme]

There's an article up on Eurogamer drawing parallels with the Wii U as this generation's DC. Obviously, and in light of what I've stated previously, I respectfully (and wholeheartedly) disagree. But for those of you who do like Nintendo and the company's Wii U console, here is a love letter for you...

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2014- ... dreamcasts

Of course, the author also mentions the Vita. So I have to give him some respect, even if he does tarnish the Vita by associating it with the Wii U.

[Skykid]

I think they'll cut it off dead. They're ruthless like that - at least have been in the past under similar circumstances.

When was this? If you are talking about the VB that platform failed to move even 800k units while the Wii U is at almost 6mil. I have no idea what Nintendos plans are but I'm pretty confident that they will ride it out and continue to release games for it. It is really not that horrible of an install base for a one year old console, is it?

I'm just saying I wouldn't put it past them to axe the thing if it turns into an unrecoverable money drain. I'm sure they'll have another attempt to revitalise it of course, probably with another major first party title, but if it gets to the point where there's simply no hope, I think Nintendo will discontinue early. It's hardly unusual in the business - everything from the Jaguar to the Dreamcast suffered early demises.

[Friendly]

Regarding that Eurogamer article on which I won't waste any time to read it; Wii U is nothing like Dreamcast. DC sales were great at first and it had incredible software support (both first and third party); most larger publishers did support it for the entire duration of its short commercial life. Wii U on the other hand was ignored by most publishers right from the start, and it has by now been abandoned by the few that did support it. DC received a huge number of Sega's best creations during its first year, while Wii U got incredibly little from Nintendo, who obviously did not plan ahead AT ALL before launching the system.

[BulletMagnet]

I'm just saying I wouldn't put it past them to axe the thing if it turns into an unrecoverable money drain. I'm sure they'll have another attempt to revitalise it of course, probably with another major first party title, but if it gets to the point where there's simply no hope, I think Nintendo will discontinue early.

It's certainly not outside the realm of possibility, but one possible kink in this theory is the aforementioned pile of capital left over from the Wii boom that the company is sitting on; the U is certainly not anywhere near profitable for them at the moment, but it's not like it's pushed them a whole lot closer to insolvency or anything, especially with the 3DS having found its footing.

And as for the "but they're not investing it, that looks bad" counter-argument...I'm not an economist, but on this side of the Pacific it sometimes seems that every company under the sun is downsizing, divesting and sitting on huge piles of cash and doing jack squat with them (which makes sense, considering they have no incentive to expand since demand is so low and workers are so disposable), and all the while the stock market is booming and executive performance bonuses are being handed out like there's no tomorrow. Maybe expectations are different in Japan, but here companies can "stagnate" in that area and do just fine, at least bottom-line-wise.