Ketsui: Kizuna Jigoku Tachi Extra (XBox 360)

[lmagus]

The bullet patterns in this game rule.

This.

It is just so much more creative than anything else I've played from Cave =P

[CStarFlare]

DOJ isnt very hard if you arent chaining

¯\(º_o)/¯

Obviously things get hard no matter how you play, but if don't care about your chain or bomb bonus it's not too tough to make it through the first loop.

[moozooh]

jonny5 is right in the sense that chaining builds up your rank so it still makes the game considerably harder to play.

But DOJ, unlike Ketsui, isn't a risk/reward game, so the extraneous difficulty doesn't increase in direct proportion to your scoring ambition. If you want to perfect Ketsui's scoring you will have to spend nearly all the game in the upper part of the screen, which is something completely unnecessary in DOJ, where the WR routes are comparatively safe in relation to the scoring circumstances.

[jonny5]

jonny5 is right in the sense that chaining builds up your rank so it still makes the game considerably harder to play.

But DOJ, unlike Ketsui, isn't a risk/reward game, so the extraneous difficulty doesn't increase in direct proportion to your scoring ambition. If you want to perfect Ketsui's scoring you will have to spend nearly all the game in the upper part of the screen, which is something completely unnecessary in DOJ, where the WR routes are comparatively safe in relation to the scoring circumstances.

well...playing DOJ and ignoring chaining i could make it to the 5th stage fairly readily within 2 weeks of playing.....i had ketsui for well over a year, and rarely made it to the 5th stage, playing properly for score or otherwise....

this is just my experience....others might see it differently....

to be fair though, whether im playing for score or survival(i almost never play like this) i dont really bomb ever...in any game....so perhaps my view is a little different....

[emphatic]

Spent some time with Ketsui playing on a friends 52" plasma tonight and I just don't understand how someone can stand playing CAVE games this way. I couldn't make it past the second boss without dying or bombing and I got really dizzy. I can totally understand if people buy this and try to play it like this then end up hating it. On the other hand, my friend played some Ketsui on my EGRET II yesterday, and will definitely get a cab again now for playing his 360 ports.

[Fudoh]

Spent some time with Ketsui playing on a friends 52" plasma tonight

Yoko or tate ? The actual playing area on a 52" display (I use one, in yoko) isn't much different in size from a 29" 4:3 monitor in a cab.

[moozooh]

One of the advantages of large TVs — they don't require you to sit right next to the screen to see shit. Hence more freedom to ghetto-zoom™ the playing area.

[Kiken]

Spent some time with Ketsui playing on a friends 52" plasma tonight

Yoko or tate ? The actual playing area on a 52" display (I use one, in yoko) isn't much different in size from a 29" 4:3 monitor in a cab.

The relative screen size isn't anywhere near as important as the viewing angle. Since he's accustomed to playing on a cab then he's used to a ~10 degree tilt of the screen, and yes, this makes all the difference. It could also be that he doesn't care for the image quality afforded by the connection his friend was using (not to mention the selected filter and selected resolution). After testing the game on one of my HD sets, I found that there were some radical differences in response time as well as image quality when switching between different cable types (component, VGA, HDMI) as well as changing the console resolution.

[emphatic]

The relative screen size isn't anywhere near as important as the viewing angle. Since he's accustomed to playing on a cab then he's used to a ~10 degree tilt of the screen, and yes, this makes all the difference. It could also be that he doesn't care for the image quality afforded by the connection his friend was using (not to mention the selected filter and selected resolution). After testing the game on one of my HD sets, I found that there were some radical differences in response time as well as image quality when switching between different cable types (component, VGA, HDMI) as well as changing the console resolution.

^^this. Also I just feel that I sit way to far away first of all (still only 1.5 meters from the screen). He's tried both component and HDMI, and the component cables adds LOTS of lag btw to the point of not being playable. Anyway, I'm falling in love all over again with this brilliant game. If I ever feel I can't progress, I just switch to X Mode instead as this is almost as good as Arcade mode IMHO.

[jonny5]

Spent some time with Ketsui playing on a friends 52" plasma tonight and I just don't understand how someone can stand playing CAVE games this way. I couldn't make it past the second boss without dying or bombing and I got really dizzy. I can totally understand if people buy this and try to play it like this then end up hating it.

im exactly the same dude.....the guys bring there 360's over for the meets, and when they hook it up to my 52" i cant play it at all....

like at the last one, i was consistently dying on the 1st stage of ketsui....that should not be happening ....i know that shit like the back of my hand

im about the same distance from the screen as you as well....it all just seems awkward to me...very uncomfortable

its a bit better when hooked up to my xm29 in tate sitting close, but even then...it feels.....weird

too used to being hunched over a cab i guess

i dunno....the port seems pretty dope though...even on the lcd it looked alright.....

didnt have a vga cable to try it on the xm29

[ncp]

lol I just play with the cables that came with the 360 on bigass LCD in yoko, IMCRAZYIDONTGIVEAFUCK

jonny5 is right in the sense that chaining builds up your rank so it still makes the game considerably harder to play.

But DOJ, unlike Ketsui, isn't a risk/reward game, so the extraneous difficulty doesn't increase in direct proportion to your scoring ambition. If you want to perfect Ketsui's scoring you will have to spend nearly all the game in the upper part of the screen, which is something completely unnecessary in DOJ, where the WR routes are comparatively safe in relation to the scoring circumstances.

Chaining often requires you to be in risky positions in order you to not break your chain. Just because you don't have to move UP on the screen doesn't mean it's not risky. Besides, isn't your first sentence in direct opposition to your second one? As for Ketsui, it's more like "nearly most of the first half" of the game that you have to be in the upper part, since y'know, you don't have to point blank in the loop, and you're even punished for doing so unless you get the special loop.

jus' sayin'

[Sasupoika]

Point-blanking is not risky sometimes. Sometimes being in the top of the screen is safer than dodging at bottom. For example in XOP Black Insane-mode you want to spend most of your time in top of the screen. Otherwise you will be overhelmed by ungodly spreads.

[Naiera]

After testing the game on one of my HD sets, I found that there were some radical differences in response time as well as image quality when switching between different cable types (component, VGA, HDMI) as well as changing the console resolution.

Could you explain in more detail what your experiences were? I can spare an HDMI input now that I've upgraded the Blu-ray player and can now get rid of my DVD player, so I have the option of going away from using component for the 360. I do believe I've been experiencing some input lag (such as bombs I was certain of were fired off in time, only to see my ship explode), so it'd be nice if using HDMI would get rid of it.

[Cuilan]

Ok, my copy of Ketsui finally arrived yesterday. My impressions so far (first time playing Ketsui btw) :

Ketsui regular mode = Overrated, but still good

Ketsui X mode = Very fun

My main issues with regular mode are that the bullets travel too fast, that there's not enough slowdown, and that I'm not a fan of having to point blank enemies in order to get a better score (would have been less of a problem if it weren't for my first two issues). The game feels so fast, that by the time I feel like I'm in a situation where I should use a bomb, it's already too late to use one.

X mode seems to solve those issues in some way, yet manages to stay quite challenging. X mode's gameplay and difficulty just feel more refined/balanced to me. I was able to get to the stage 3 boss, which is about how far I can usually get in most shooters. In regular mode, on the other hand, I usually get about half-way through stage 2.

Perhaps my opinions will change after playing for a while longer.

[Kiken]

After testing the game on one of my HD sets, I found that there were some radical differences in response time as well as image quality when switching between different cable types (component, VGA, HDMI) as well as changing the console resolution.

Could you explain in more detail what your experiences were? I can spare an HDMI input now that I've upgraded the Blu-ray player and can now get rid of my DVD player, so I have the option of going away from using component for the 360. I do believe I've been experiencing some input lag (such as bombs I was certain of were fired off in time, only to see my ship explode), so it'd be nice if using HDMI would get rid of it.

Don't play Ketsui through Component, it makes the game look hideous. On my 26 inch Vizio, I found that running the console at 480p through HDMI felt pretty much lagless. Running it at 720p or Optimal Resolution (768p) via HDMI felt just a hair sluggish. Experiment and be sure to report back what you find running it on your set.

[Ravid]

I'm playing through component and haven't noticed any lag. Haven't noticed it looking like shit either, though I think on that point I'm a lot less discerning than some forum members

[drunkninja24]

Ok, my copy of Ketsui finally arrived yesterday. My impressions so far (first time playing Ketsui btw) :

Ketsui regular mode = Overrated, but still good

Ketsui X mode = Very fun

My main issues with regular mode are that the bullets travel too fast, that there's not enough slowdown, and that I'm not a fan of having to point blank enemies in order to get a better score (would have been less of a problem if it weren't for my first two issues). The game feels so fast, that by the time I feel like I'm in a situation where I should use a bomb, it's already too late to use one.

X mode seems to solve those issues in some way, yet manages to stay quite challenging. X mode's gameplay and difficulty just feel more refined/balanced to me. I was able to get to the stage 3 boss, which is about how far I can usually get in most shooters. In regular mode, on the other hand, I usually get about half-way through stage 2.

Perhaps my opinions will change after playing for a while longer.

You don't necessarily have to point blank everything. The key is to point blank an enemy, then take advantage of the counter and lock shot to get "5" chips from everything else until the counter runs out, then repeat the process. You don't have to constantly be in an enemy's face.

[Cuilan]

You don't necessarily have to point blank everything. The key is to point blank an enemy, then take advantage of the counter and lock shot to get "5" chips from everything else until the counter runs out, then repeat the process. You don't have to constantly be in an enemy's face.

I see. That sounds much better. Looks like I'll have to look at some replays more closely to see how the counter works.

[Naiera]

Don't play Ketsui through Component, it makes the game look hideous. On my 26 inch Vizio, I found that running the console at 480p through HDMI felt pretty much lagless. Running it at 720p or Optimal Resolution (768p) via HDMI felt just a hair sluggish. Experiment and be sure to report back what you find running it on your set.

I've tried HDMI and it really looks much the same as Component I can't do 480p since my TV sees that as a computer resolution, for some reason, and throws my professionally calibrated settings out the window (I have one thing left to try, though), but it's kind of a bother to change the resolution all the time anyway. I honestly can't tell if 720p through HDMI is as laggy as 720p through component, as I haven't had one of those 'I was sure I fired off the bomb in time'-moments while trying HDMI yesterday. Those moments happened mostly during Futari and Galuda II.

Has anyone tried 1080i or p and found it less laggy than 720p? You never know with these things...

[emphatic]

I honestly can't tell if 720p through HDMI is as laggy as 720p through component, as I haven't had one of those 'I was sure I fired off the bomb in time'-moments while trying HDMI yesterday. Those moments happened mostly during Futari and Galuda II.

If you'd have the lag, it would be very hard to miss. It's like playing with a controller dipped in slime. It feels very sloppy. Also, the colors/sharpness is much better in HDMI than component, at least on my friend's set.

[gs68]

I think the lack of a tate monitor is why I blow chunks at DOJ.

[Naiera]

How do you get fives in X-Mode? I'm having tons of fun playing it, but I have a really hard time scoring those five boxes. I get tons of fours, to the point where the corresponding achievement is already done compared to at best 25% for the rest, but I very rarely get fives, and then only a handfuld. Like seven, yesterday...

[BulletMagnet]

I recently asked about X-Mode in the Strategy thread for this game, and someone helped me out - check there for most all you need to know on scoring.

[Fudoh]

Can't help you out with getting more 5s, but on a related note: I hardly get any 3s. There are stage runs in which I score something like this:

1: 0
2:1000
3: 0
4:3000
5:500

My "3s" achievement is at something like 10%, while the "4s" was the first I got and the others are at least halfway gotten....

[ncp]

You have to be REALLY close to the marked enemy in X-mode to get [5]s. Like almost on top of them.

[Special World]

I recently asked about X-Mode in the Strategy thread for this game, and someone helped me out - check there for most all you need to know on scoring.

Any chance you can link to this?

I am a bum.

[dcharlie]

playing Ketsui via custom RGB convertor via Sony Profeel - oh so nice.




Beautiful stuff.

[alastair jack]

Pity you can't really see the bombs.

[dcharlie]

well, i can if i reduce the overscan! I just got my d4-RGB convertor and it just ramped it up to 100% overscan

[Naiera]

I recently asked about X-Mode in the Strategy thread for this game, and someone helped me out - check there for most all you need to know on scoring.

Any chance you can link to this?

I am a bum.

I managed to find it. Although I'm not sure I've understood it completely

Many thanks to BulletMagnet for pointing it out though.