7th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time! - Results

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 12:35 pm

Modern vs Old, Stargate (Arcade, 1981):

- variable speed ship;
- narrow-focused, piercing laser;
- wide-spread, multiple lasers;
- short range, melee (Invisio) attack;
- Invisio defence (shield);
- firing direction independent of movement (limited 'window');
- bi-directional firing;
- screen-clearing bombing and proximity scoring (pods and swarmers);
- Item-based (humanoid) scoring system with multipliers ('medalling');
- stage (wave) 'milking';
- suiciding;
- bullet absorbtion/ cancelling/ destruction with Invisio (points);
- 'secret' scoring tricks;
- flexible, non-rigid scoring system based on risk/ reward;
- rank system (AI);
- in-game/ in-situ difficulty 'mode' selecting, via Stargate;
- dynamic enemy patterns;
- 'popcorn' enemies;
- multi-part enemies;
- aimed bullets;
- multi-source aimed bullets; pseudo 'bullet-patterns';
- non-monolithic bosses (special stages); swarming, insect-like enemies;
- multi-routes/ paths with Stargate; and with planet destruction;
- multi-looping; multiple of every 5th/ 10th waves;
- interaction with landscape: scoring and breaking multipliers;
- gameplay sound cues;
- gameplay scanner;
- parallax scrolling ;P ;
- auto-scrolling, via continually depressing Thrust ;P ;
- 60 FPS ;P ;
- and custom soundtracks ;P

... and probably moar that I forgot to mention; all packaged in a game from 19-effin'-81...

Of course, the control system can take a little getting used to, but it's integral to the game and its nuances... The component of inertia only applies along the X-axis, and is fully controllable with a dedicated Thrust button; no component of inertia is present along the Y-axis (important for control/ aiming/ dodging in a horizontally scrolling game)...

The game doesn't have power-ups; doesn't need them: The rank (AI) adjusts accordingly...

In conclusion: I cannot see much that has improved in the genre since 1981, conceptually at least...

EDIT:

- instant re-spawn;

EDIT 2:

- particle effects and abstract artsyle (silhouettes);
- smallish hitbox;

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 7:43 pm

difference is, stargate sucks

FIL · Post by **FIL** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:09 pm

I'm starting to see a theme emerging.

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:19 pm

Off topic:

@ Mods/ Admins: It would be nice to have a 'proper' ignore function for this forum... It's still not a 'guarantee' for someone abusing the system after being informed; but still useful nonetheless for reminding certain members...

Apologies for the off-topic post... Anyway, thanks to all involved for this years polls...

lgb · Post by **lgb** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:28 pm

Hardstepah wrote:jesus, everybody says RSG is over hyped.....i've never played a more mediocre shooter then Battle Garegga in all my life. are you kidding me? yes i know im going to probably be banned from the site for saying this but i don't care. the game isn't that special, just about every game in that list is better then garegga. jesus did they put subliminal messages in this game? haha and i only mentioned RSG because of its claim to over hype, i too think its not the holy grail of shmups. but garegga? cmon!

As ncp (and to a lesser extent, Twiddle) has pointed out, it doesn't seem like you wear that avatar because of Ibara, the game.

Danbo · Post by **Danbo** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 8:52 pm

Oh come on guys, Ibara's nothing like Garegga. Where are the Garegga girls? If I can't get a close up view of a girl's crotch after beating a boss it just ain't worth my time

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:17 pm

j^aws wrote:Off topic:

@ Mods/ Admins: It would be nice to have a 'proper' ignore function for this forum... It's still not a 'guarantee' for someone abusing the system after being informed; but still useful nonetheless for reminding certain members...

Apologies for the off-topic post... Anyway, thanks to all involved for this years polls...

cry more

GaijinPunch · Post by **GaijinPunch** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:27 pm

j^aws wrote: @ Mods/ Admins: It would be nice to have a _______ function for this forum...

What was the last update you saw here?

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Tue Jun 09, 2009 11:59 pm

GaijinPunch wrote:
j^aws wrote: @ Mods/ Admins: It would be nice to have a _______ function for this forum...
What was the last update you saw here?

User side: I can't recall any. Admin side: Temporary bannings, IIRC...

Rob · Post by **Rob** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:04 am

You seem to be suggesting something.

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:15 am

Rob wrote:You seem to be suggesting something.

That some members are better ignored, with an ignore function? : )

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 12:25 am

j^aws wrote:
Rob wrote:You seem to be suggesting something.
That some members are better ignored, with an ignore function? : )

Anything in particular bring temporary bannings to mind? Or just a coincidence?

No, sadly, this board doesn't get upgraded much.

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:02 am

doctorx0079 wrote:
j^aws wrote:
Rob wrote:You seem to be suggesting something.
That some members are better ignored, with an ignore function? : )
Anything in particular bring temporary bannings to mind? Or just a coincidence?

No, sadly, this board doesn't get upgraded much.

Well, this is kinda off-topic (OTOH: lol, games sux etc.)... Nothing in particular; my sig's an ironic quote from a member I had a hand in getting permabanned (the forum has much improved since then). I'd just rather ignore people that waste my time, and let the mods do whatever they do...

Back on-topic...

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:27 am

j^aws never stops to consider that most of his posts are terrible and his suggestions are terrible and his taste is terrible, that can never be the case, obviously

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:33 am

I'm having the strangest sense of deja vu right now.

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:35 am

Twiddle wrote:j^aws never stops to consider that most of his posts are about Stargate exclusively.

Fixed.

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:34 am

^^ Recent thread I started:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 951#477951

See first post...

jpj wrote: even at 50 i'm not sure stargate would get in

I didn't mention anything in the OP about Stargate. Then shortly later:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 017#478017

nZero wrote:[50] Stargate
[1] 49 other games that my vote will have nearly no influence upon

Or in this current discussion thread:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 090#480090

Rob wrote:Not Stargate, partly out of spite and there's already Robotron.

I didn't mention anything prior in this thread.

Or the thread you started:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 596#473596

doctorx0079 wrote: j^aws is at it again . .

Or the OP that kickstarted this years poll:

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 146#465146

incognoscente wrote: (...)
The first was the voting system, particularly j^aws's vote for Stargate.
(...)

@ Herr Schatten wrote:

"j^aws never stops to consider that most of his posts are about Stargate exclusively."

Not true. I voted for it this year and all subsequent mentions can be related to above posts. I can similarly show this for other years too...

ncp · Post by **ncp** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 2:57 pm

Maybe if you didn't get so offended every time someone made fun of your stargate fanboyism, it wouldn't get made fun of. Also, serious business internet stuff.

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:10 pm

^^ You know, all I did was post a Modern vs Old personal point-of-view; and the first reply was a troll post from someone from my ignore list... I'm not offended and it's not about Stargate: Accumulated posting history of certain members, over the past few years, builds a certain mental picture over the Internet. I just want to ignore a whole bunch of hypocrites / trolls/ sycophants; saves me time and energy...

doctorx0079 · Post by **doctorx0079** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 4:30 pm

Twiddle wrote:j^aws never stops to consider that most of his posts are terrible and his suggestions are terrible and his taste is terrible, that can never be the case, obviously

Now, you know, it's not nice to pick on j^aws like that.

It is pretty hard not to though. At the rate things are going, some members will keep hounding him out of boredom/curiosity, and then he will finally pick up all his toys and go away.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:03 pm

im sorry, stargate sux.....it might have been something 30 yearss ago....but times change....

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:12 pm

jonny5 wrote:im sorry, stargate sux.....it might have been something 30 yearss ago....but times change....

Okay, I know why most people don't like this game; but I'm interested in hearing how "times change" and what "sux" about it?

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:35 pm

j^aws wrote:
jonny5 wrote:im sorry, stargate sux.....it might have been something 30 yearss ago....but times change....
Okay, I know why most people don't like this game; but I'm interested in hearing how "times change" and what "sux" about it?

by times change i meant there has been progression in game development over the past 30 years, and by sux i meant it sux.....put somebody with zero experience with shmups in front of stargate and any other game made in last 10 years and ask them which they like more.....they will say i like the newer one...that one(stargate) sux....

stargate might be nostalgic for some, but personally i dont think it has held up over time....

and your obsession with it is quite odd imo.....the fact that it came out the year before i was born might make me a little biased, but going by others responses i dont think i am way off here

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:31 pm

jonny5 wrote: by times change i meant there has been progression in game development over the past 30 years,

Could you clarify "progression"? At first glance one could look at DOJ, and Stargate and say that's 20+ years of progression in game development... In what sense?

jonny5 wrote: and by sux i meant it sux.....put somebody with zero experience with shmups in front of stargate and any other game made in last 10 years and ask them which they like more.....they will say i like the newer one...that one(stargate) sux....

Alright, so something like 'old-ass' looking game would be what you mean? I'm still not sure from your description... If you showed someone Pac-Man (same era, different genre), that kinda thing?

jonny5 wrote: stargate might be nostalgic for some, but personally i dont think it has held up over time....

Anything specific? I tend to see steady framerates/ responsive controls, as examples of strong elements, in judging whether something has held the test of time...

jonny5 wrote: and your obsession with it is quite odd imo.....the fact that it came out the year before i was born might make me a little biased, but going by others responses i dont think i am way off here

I can see why someone might call it an "obsession"; it really isn't.

When I joined the forum a few years ago, can't think of anything specific off-hand, but there was 'chatter' I picked up about old games not having scoring systems and whatnot. And how modern games are great because of bullet patterns and complex scoring systems... Well, it kinda rubbed me the wrong way; made lots of posts to the contrary! Which seems to have rubbed other members the wrong way. Although, it seems that Rob kinda likes it now...

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:48 pm

j^aws wrote:^^ You know, all I did was post a Modern vs Old personal point-of-view; and the first reply was a troll post from someone from my ignore list... I'm not offended and it's not about Stargate: Accumulated posting history of certain members, over the past few years, builds a certain mental picture over the Internet. I just want to ignore a whole bunch of hypocrites / trolls/ sycophants; saves me time and energy...

You want to ignore yourself? That's a pretty bold move.

Post by **system11** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:51 pm

j^aws wrote:
Rob wrote:You seem to be suggesting something.
That some members are better ignored, with an ignore function? : )

Even if we upgraded to software that supported it, I would disable the ignoring of users, because it's stupid and leads to stupid disjointed conversations.

Twiddle · Post by **Twiddle** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:55 pm

make it back-edged ignoring, where if you ignore anyone your posts simply will not be posted ever

Post by **system11** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:57 pm

jonny5 wrote:im sorry, stargate sux.....it might have been something 30 yearss ago....but times change....

Try playing it. Come back and post when it's handed you your ass 5 times in a row. j^aws has a point, up to a point.

Stargate also has very basic graphics and sound, a simple scoring system, and is simply a different type of game to what people are playing now. That doesn't mean it 'sux' - it's still a great game. Try Juno First for another old twitcher which still rocks.

jonny5 · Post by **jonny5** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:08 pm

bloodflowers wrote:
jonny5 wrote:im sorry, stargate sux.....it might have been something 30 yearss ago....but times change....
Try playing it. Come back and post when it's handed you your ass 5 times in a row. j^aws has a point, up to a point.

Stargate also has very basic graphics and sound, a simple scoring system, and is simply a different type of game to what people are playing now. That doesn't mean it 'sux' - it's still a great game. Try Juno First for another old twitcher which still rocks.

i didnt say it was easy...i said it sux compared to more modern games....

my comment was more related to j^aws insisting that it has a place in the top25....and my point is that it may be a great game, but it has been overshadowed slightly over the past few decades.....

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:09 pm

bloodflowers wrote:
j^aws wrote:
Rob wrote:You seem to be suggesting something.
That some members are better ignored, with an ignore function? : )
Even if we upgraded to software that supported it, I would disable the ignoring of users, because it's stupid and leads to stupid disjointed conversations.

That's fine. I have no interest in any discussion with individuals that call me a "retard", or bring my "anus" into one for example, in real life, nor on the internet. You have the privilege as an admin to ban members at a whim (I've seen you do this), that might offend you for example. On other forums, they would go onto my ignore list...

Simple solution: Stop posting? Or some kinda "no u" type posting style, and play as dirty as them? Members don't easily go on my list; how about a mod/ admin advising them to respect my wishes instead? IIRC, there was an explicit rule mentioning this somewhere...?

We can take this to PM if you wish?