Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[DoomsDave]

hah yeah I'm looking forward to getting my hands on it now.

[jedman]

Noticed these slight wavy edges to the vertical top left and right sides in 4;3 on my Wii and PS2 through component on my BVM D24, is this to do with sync issues?

[Einzelherz]

None of my three screens seem to match up in vibrancy/saturation/whatever. The colors in this picture aren't 100% accurate, but their relation are, i.e. the blue bars on the TV and larger PVM are very close to one another.

Large image: http://i.imgur.com/IvccnzK.jpg

14L5, 20L2, Philips 27". The 14L5 was auto chroma calibrated using this same screen/console. The 20L2 wouldn't run it properly. I manually messed with the individual colors on the TV.

My blacks and greys are very, very close across all three screens and the three IRE chips all match pretty well. My whites are not similar (100 IRE chip) on any with the brightness going from smallest to largest as can be seen in the photo. It's kind of bothersome to me because the TV will show saturation like I see in the better looking DSL type photos in this thread whereas the two PVMs look a little flat, the 14L5 looking very flat.

What can I do to improve some of this flatness without having a proper color calibration tool?

[Xyga]

Large image: http://i.imgur.com/IvccnzK.jpg
...
Philips 27"

Oooh...I've owned a Philips extremely similar to yours, probably the 20" version.

And you know what ? one day I turned it on and seconds later it was ON FIRE ! Like, the really fiery type.
By the time I've reached the power plug there was molten plastic and components smoke everywhere.

It was just past warranty limit iirc.

[DatPhosphorGlow]

Can somene do me a favor and measure their BVM-20 E/F/G with a BKM-10R attached to the bottom? I need the total height in millimeters from the feet of the BKM-10R to the top of the monitor. I'm putting some custom shelving together and the 20" BVM is not yet in my possession. Yes, I plan to leave room on top for the vents, not sure how much though yet, going to go through the manual to see if Sony specifies. Picture for reference:

[DoomsDave]

I have a BKM that doesn't have feet and sits on the top of the BVM but it shouldn't be too different. It's roughly 470mm.

[atheistgod1999]

I was doing the first 3 of 6 hours of community service as school punishment and you won't believe what I found while doing it.

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And get this: all it's getting used for is to watch DVDs. Through composite video!!! I asked how they got it and they said someone gave it to them. I asked if I could trade that with an HDTV and Blu-Ray player, and they said I can talk to the manager tomorrow about it.

EDIT: One of the images was posted twice.

[Guspaz]

I did an internship at Matrox a decade ago, working in the capture card department (well, image acquisition, not meant for video capture), and our test cluster had a rather... dated video source setup. Keeping in mind that this was 2007. A while back, but not that far back.

The video source? They had an arcade laserdisc player (the arcade units could loop endlessly), looped through a PVM (don't remember the size, it was small, so probably an 8" or 14"), then into a splitter for all the test servers.

The laserdisc they played, which I basically had to watch over and over again for my entire 4 month internship while I sat in front of the KVM managing the test boxes?

Waterworld. Disc 3 of 3.

[bobrocks95]

Looks like VGA and up only, so it's pretty much a big PC CRT, but cool find nonetheless!

[Einzelherz]

I was doing the first 3 of 6 hours of community service as school punishment and you won't believe what I found while doing it.

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And get this: all it's getting used for is to watch DVDs. Through composite video!!! I asked how they got it and they said someone gave it to them. I asked if I could trade that with an HDTV and Blu-Ray player, and they said I can talk to the manager tomorrow about it.

No large photo setting on your camera, eh?

[KatKya]

Looks like VGA and up only, so it's pretty much a big PC CRT, but cool find nonetheless!

A quick google search says otherwise.

RGB inputs should accept anything between 15khz and 64khz, meaning you could get anything from an old console to something modern outputting at 720p/1080i in high quality on that thing.

[bobrocks95]

I was looking here http://support.mdl.ru/PC_compl/firma/Vi ... s/29ga.htm and saw the PC compatibility section that said VGA to 1280x1024. In hindsight if it has composite/S-Video inputs of course it can do 15 KHz

[FinalBaton]

A quick google search says otherwise.

RGB inputs should accept anything between 15khz and 64khz, meaning you could get anything from an old console to something modern outputting at 720p/1080i in high quality on that thing.

Wow. if it's indeed the case then make sure to grab it, a.g.1999

[KatKya]

I was looking here http://support.mdl.ru/PC_compl/firma/Vi ... s/29ga.htm and saw the PC compatibility section that said VGA to 1280x1024. In hindsight if it has composite/S-Video inputs of course it can do 15 KHz

Not explicitly. There are some monitors out there that will accept composite and s-video, but linedouble it to display at 31khz, and won't even accept 15khz over the RGB input.

However, the page explicitly states that the RGB input accepts "Fh:15-64 KHz, Fv:45-160 Hz", so there shouldn't be any problem in that.

[Ed Oscuro]

It also mentions Sync On Green, isn't that a sign that it accepts 15KHz?

Cool find, and thanks for saving this model name for posterity. It always pays to keep eyes open.

of course it's anybody's guess as to whether they'll come to an agreement with you on it...but I know you can pick up some 1080p or even 4K screens for not too much money if you wanted to arrange a trade.

[KatKya]

It also mentions Sync On Green, isn't that a sign that it accepts 15KHz?

Why would you say that? There are a multitude of PC monitors that support RGsB, but don't sync below 30khz. Composite and S-Video support hint at true 15khz support, but even they don't confirm it explicitly.

[atheistgod1999]

Alright, so I finished the community service today and was able to test the ViewSonic 2964GA-1 out with the DVD player, but as I said before it's only hooked up via composite and I had nothing else to connect it with. Also, I had to capture it with my cell phone so it doesn't look great, but I think it got the job done. Here's a recording of the CRT in action: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rsn8_f9 ... e=youtu.be

I'm not sure whether or not I'll be able to take it; I'm getting conflicting information.

I'll post pictures I took later.

EDIT: Link's dead because I closed my old account. Here's a new one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsWZVIR6Ooo

[atheistgod1999]

Images:

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[xga]

I was doing the first 3 of 6 hours of community service as school punishment and you won't believe what I found while doing it.

Spoiler

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And get this: all it's getting used for is to watch DVDs. Through composite video!!! I asked how they got it and they said someone gave it to them. I asked if I could trade that with an HDTV and Blu-Ray player, and they said I can talk to the manager tomorrow about it.

EDIT: One of the images was posted twice.

I was lucky enough to acquire one of these Viewsonic GA29 presentation monitors last year.

The bad news is, they won't display 15kHz through RGB. Composite (and I presume S-Video) works fine with 15kHz sources though. This really sucks as the user manual and service manual have conflicting information about 15kHz sources. From memory, the user manual says that it will accept 15kHz over RGB and the service manual states 31kHz minimum, however using a video signal generator, I did discover that it will sync down to 24kHz, so it is good for medium res. It goes as high as 1280 x 1024. They also have a few fans inside, which are a little noisy.

The good news is, these monitors use a good Toshiba tube that was commonly used in Sega arcade machines, so it is a quality tube that will last, has great black levels and the colours really pop.

Definitely pick it up if you can. It would make an awesome monitor for a Dreamcast or any 480p content.

[atheistgod1999]

Maybe it's possible to mod it to display 15KHz RGB. Maybe I could install a switch and connect the RGB lines to one of the AV lines, like what's discussed in the TV RGB mod thread.

[FinalBaton]

At the very worst, you'll have S-video for 15kHz sources, wich is still gonna look real nice on a good tube.

[xga]

Maybe it's possible to mod it to display 15KHz RGB. Maybe I could install a switch and connect the RGB lines to one of the AV lines, like what's discussed in the TV RGB mod thread.

Potentially, although it has no OSD / Jungle IC equivalent, so not sure how straight forward it would be.

The other thing is, this monitor doesn't just have a one board chassis like a TV, it has several boards, mounted vertically and around the frame (think NEC XM29 if you have seen inside one of them), so you would need to spend a bit of time with the schematics, working out what each board is responsible for.

If you did get it to work, I'm sure it would look quite good.

[Ed Oscuro]

It also mentions Sync On Green, isn't that a sign that it accepts 15KHz?

Why would you say that? There are a multitude of PC monitors that support RGsB, but don't sync below 30khz. Composite and S-Video support hint at true 15khz support, but even they don't confirm it explicitly.

Well, that answers my question

I did think there may have been cases like you mention but I wasn't sure.

[Skips]

My curiosity got the better of me and I ordered a NIB GVM-2020 from David Riddle last week. Should be here this week some time. There is little to no information on these monitors as far as quality/functionality when it comes to retro games so I plan to make a quick and dirty unboxing/functionality/Video quality video with my cell phone on it. I also wanted to see if his monitors were really in as good physical and functional condition as he says they are. Cool thing is it will do 480p for the DC as well as 15khz RGB for the old shit. I think composite video is about 550 lines and RGB is around 600 or so so it should be pretty crisp given how old it is. I had a damaged one awhile ago that only did composite video and I remember the color and sharpness was pretty amazing even for composite video.

I talked him down from his way too high price of $489 a bit, unfortunately its coming freight so that alone cost $180 BUT that also pretty much guarantees it wont be fucked up by the shitty ass Phoenix UPS hub. I really did not want to risk a NIB CRT via UPS again. I kinda wanted to order a BVM but unfortunately its too deep and heavy for my new desk and I am not playing monitor roulette with PVM's anymore. I just have no interest in searching for CRT's anymore when I need them or want to try something different. If this doesn't work Ill just go back to the XRGB mini I have been using.

I will post here later once I unbox the beast, should be here Tuesday if they shipped it when they said they did.

[atheistgod1999]

I'll be able to test if it accepts 15kHz RGB or not because they'll let me bring in a game console to test it out with. All I need is a SCART(or BNC)-to-VGA adapter and I'm good to go.

One thing I'm kinda disappointed about is that the casing is kinda banged up. I wonder if it's fixable in any way, like mending the plastic underneath the right speaker.

[atheistgod1999]

xga, did you test every RGB input? Maybe it's only the DE-15 port that doesn't accept 15kHz RGB due to that kind of connector only being used for VGA, which is always at least 31kHz, while the DA-15 accepts it because there were computers with that type of port that outputted 15kHz RGB. Also, look back at that webpage. Notice how it lists the "PC" input as "15-pin HD D-sub" while the "Mac" input is only listed as "15-pin D-sub".

[cfx]

.

[atheistgod1999]

That is the name of the connector; 15-pin D-sub versus 15-pin High Density D-sub; i.e. the pins are closer together.

Ah. Did you try both ports, though?

[xga]

xga, did you test every RGB input? Maybe it's only the DE-15 port that doesn't accept 15kHz RGB due to that kind of connector only being used for VGA, which is always at least 31kHz, while the DA-15 accepts it because there were computers with that type of port that outputted 15kHz RGB. Also, look back at that webpage. Notice how it lists the "PC" input as "15-pin HD D-sub" while the "Mac" input is only listed as "15-pin D-sub".

Yes, I tried both RGB ports. One is a normal PC 15 pin VGA connector, the other is the old Apple MAC II / Quadra 15 pin connector. I made a cable to convert the Apple 15 pin connector to PC VGA in case there was something wrong with the VGA input. I did wonder if there was perhaps something wrong with the sync circuit, so I took it to a trusted monitor repair tech for him to inspect and repair. He replaced a few caps, but could not find anything wrong with it.

In my testing with it, I threw everything at it - Mega Drive, PS1, PC with an ATI card running Groovymame, test pattern generators etc, but I could not get 15kHz via RGB out of it. The best I could get was 24kHz, which I verified with a video signal generator and medium res game on my Groovymame PC.

I would love to be proved wrong and perhaps there is something wrong with my monitor, so please do your testing with a console and let us know how you go. I used a Sync Strike to go from SCART to VGA in my testing.

[FinalBaton]

Yes, I tried both RGB ports. One is a normal PC 15 pin VGA connector, the other is the old Apple MAC II / Quadra 15 pin connector. I made a cable to convert the Apple 15 pin connector to PC VGA in case there was something wrong with the VGA input. I did wonder if there was perhaps something wrong with the sync circuit, so I took it to a trusted monitor repair tech for him to inspect and repair. He replaced a few caps, but could not find anything wrong with it.

In my testing with it, I threw everything at it - Mega Drive, PS1, PC with an ATI card running Groovymame, test pattern generators etc, but I could not get 15kHz via RGB out of it. The best I could get was 24kHz, which I verified with a video signal generator and medium res game on my Groovymame PC.

I would love to be proved wrong and perhaps there is something wrong with my monitor, so please do your testing with a console and let us know how you go. I used a Sync Strike to go from SCART to VGA in my testing.

Do you still have the Mac pinout to PC VGA pinout diagram somewhere xga?
I've got a MAC port on the NEC XM37 Plus and I'd like to make a PC VGA adapter for it. (I bought an adapter online but it doesn't work).
I know what the pinout for the MAC port is(I have the manual for the NEC), but I'm pretty sure that making an adapter is gonna be trickier than just finding the equivalent pin on the VGA connector.
Since you had successful making a functional adapter, I'm interested in seeing your diagram for it, if you don't mind...