PixelFX Morph

[orange808]

120Hz output modes have not been mentioned

Can't do black frame insertion without inserting a frame. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

...if the Morph undercuts (the RT4k) by actually $300+ and offers such a similar feature set, it's going to be very hard to beat...

I haven't seen any price estimates. Is that realistic?

[Josh128]

^^ Yes, their page claims $375 for digital only and $475 for analog + digital. That puts it at potentially less than half the price of Mikes tentative ~$999.


Being brutally honest, with no disrespect whatsoever to PixelFX, the Morph has a herculean task ahead of it if it intends to actually go head to head with the RetroTink and not just be a poor mans version of it. Mike has already gone on record to say that the 4K will retail probably close to $1K-- and hes a one man band--i.e. low overhead. For PixelFX to actually be a small team and produce a 4K scaler that will sell for half the price of the RT4K means one of two things:

1.) Mike was BSing about the hardware cost of the 4K and is milking the price (which I dont believe).

or

2.) The Morph is constructed of signficantly cheaper (and less capable) hardware.


If it somehow turns out that the hardware is similarly capable as the 4K, PixelFX still will have to match the 4K on firmware / features, which will not be an easy task, given that Mike has a huge head start in this regard, building off his experience of the already amazing feature set of the RT5X.

[orange808]

Also, wirh BlurBusters involved, I wonder if the RT4K will attempt refresh rates above 120Hz with frame slices. HDMI bandwidth would limit the output resolution if the frame rate goes too high.

We shall see. I'm not certain 120Hz and simple black frame insertion will be enough to compete.

[ldeveraux]

Has Bob ever gotten a free product he hasn't praised to oblivion?

[bobrocks95]

120Hz output modes have not been mentioned

Can't do black frame insertion without inserting a frame. ¯⁠\⁠_⁠(⁠ツ⁠)⁠_⁠/⁠¯

Oh duh yeah. I guess no BFI in 4K then.

I haven't seen any price estimates. Is that realistic?

As Josh said, $500 for the full Morph, current estimate from Mike is $1,000, I've been thinking like $800 is a safe enough bet.

Being brutally honest, with no disrespect whatsoever to PixelFX, the Morph has a herculean task ahead of it if it intends to actually go head to head with the RetroTink and not just be a poor mans version of it. Mike has already gone on record to say that the 4K will retail probably close to $1K-- and hes a one man band--i.e. low overhead. For PixelFX to actually be a small team and produce a 4K scaler that will sell for half the price of the RT4K means one of two things:

1.) Mike was BSing about the hardware cost of the 4K and is milking the price (which I dont believe).

or

2.) The Morph is constructed of signficantly cheaper (and less capable) hardware.

Low overhead is beaten very easily by economy of scale. If PixelFX is placing a big fat FPGA order for their GEM scalers and the Morph they're going to get a way better price. Smaller enclosure with cheaper plastic tooling, parts savings elsewhere, very tight margins? I don't think Mike is inflating things artificially, I think if anything he's very unsure about what the final price it will be and is playing it super safe with the $1,000 estimate since he's continuing to have a hard time securing parts.

If it somehow turns out that the hardware is similarly capable as the 4K, PixelFX still will have to match the 4K on firmware / features, which will not be an easy task, given that Mike has a huge head start in this regard, building off his experience of the already amazing feature set of the RT5X.

PixelFX has plenty to work with there from their past digital solutions with polyphase scalers. They've got cool tech in their products for sure, their scanline/mask simulation is quite fully featured and customizable. And having a team and tons of R&D time I can't imagine it missing much even at launch. I think it will be a competitive market for sure.

[fernan1234]

If the Morph can like the RT4K use custom modelines for the output then I'll be considering it especially if the price difference is large, though I also don't mind paying extra for the Tink which has a more premium-level appearance. Otherwise zero interest.

[Guspaz]

The Morph is using a very cheap Trion FPGA from Efinix. Efinix seems to be trying to make a play for marketshare based on aggressive pricing.

[bobrocks95]

The Morph is using a very cheap Trion FPGA from Efinix. Efinix seems to be trying to make a play for marketshare based on aggressive pricing.

Were you able to read or find a model number for it? I guess we won't know exactly what the Tink 4K is using until launch, but a comparison would be nice even if it's just an educated guess for now.

[TooBeaucoup]

While I have no doubt the Morph will be great. Mike is an absolute madman when it comes to firmware and feature updates and supporting his products. I think Pixel will have a hard time matching Mike's drive to improve and add features. And that's not a knock on Pixel. Mike is inhuman!

[Guspaz]

From the PCB photo of the Morph, it looks like a Trion T120F484C4, which is $35 in single-unit quantities, and probably around $20 in larger quantities.

[Konsolkongen]

Pixel Enlargement Lab, Cologne, Germany 8/4/2023 - The Pixel FX team has been busy, and we are happy to announce the premier 4k scaler for your setup, the Morph 4K. See your games like never before with the Morph 4K as it upscales them to beautiful 4k quality and the latest HDMI tricks like HDR, BFI, and VRR. No matter if you are looking to upscale your favorite HDMI consoles or looking to get the best picture from your favorite retro console, the Morph 4K will achieve stunning results. The Morph 4K is nearly ready to go, launching in Q4 2023.

Feature Rundown -

Up to 4K60 resolution polyphase upscaling

4:4:4 end to end color support

HDR, Variable Refresh Rate, Black Frame Insertion
Ultra low lag

Motion adaptive deinterlacing

Scanlines

WiFi updates and WebUI system control

MicroSD card slot for updates and user files

Expansion card support

Does “WebUI system control” mean that it will have to be controlled through a website or app? That would be a huge bummer for me. I much prefer physical real buttons on a remote.

[Fudoh]

I'm with you on this one. Control through a brower is always a nice option, if somebody likes controlling his gear using a phone or a tablet, but an option for a regular remote is a must. I could live with it not being included and being optional instead, but if there's not even the option because there are no IR or RF receptors on the unit, this would be a real bummer indeed.

[StudMuffinHak]

Pixel Enlargement Lab, Cologne, Germany 8/4/2023 - The Pixel FX team has been busy, and we are happy to announce the premier 4k scaler for your setup, the Morph 4K. See your games like never before with the Morph 4K as it upscales them to beautiful 4k quality and the latest HDMI tricks like HDR, BFI, and VRR. No matter if you are looking to upscale your favorite HDMI consoles or looking to get the best picture from your favorite retro console, the Morph 4K will achieve stunning results. The Morph 4K is nearly ready to go, launching in Q4 2023.

Feature Rundown -

Up to 4K60 resolution polyphase upscaling

4:4:4 end to end color support

HDR, Variable Refresh Rate, Black Frame Insertion
Ultra low lag

Motion adaptive deinterlacing

Scanlines

WiFi updates and WebUI system control

MicroSD card slot for updates and user files

Expansion card support

Does “WebUI system control” mean that it will have to be controlled through a website or app? That would be a huge bummer for me. I much prefer physical real buttons on a remote.

Nope, we have physical buttons in the front. And can be controlled by remote. Also, can be changed through the WebUI. We also have other ways to control it coming soon

[VEGETA]

I guess this won't do 4k60 but rather 4k30 right? if so, then this automatically won't compete with RT4K since it is a different product... will be vs 5X.

[EnragedWhale]

I guess this won't do 4k60 but rather 4k30 right? if so, then this automatically won't compete with RT4K since it is a different product... will be vs 5X.

The first listed feature is 4K60……

[VEGETA]

I guess this won't do 4k60 but rather 4k30 right? if so, then this automatically won't compete with RT4K since it is a different product... will be vs 5X.

The first listed feature is 4K60……

No, I didn't see that in Pixel Morph. I know RT4K is 4K60 and mentioned it but my point was that Morph is not 4K60.

I read in the now-non-existent features page that max output is about 1440p60 or 4k30, you can see it being mentioned in this post and this youtube video.

thus I said above it won't be directly comparable with rt4k but rather to 5x.


EDIT: I now found this page https://www.pixelfx.co/morph4k randomly, looks like it got upgraded. now your words are correct.

[spmbx]

Not quite sure i dig their new corporate identity (actually i am sure) but i'm glad they will be coming out with the morph. I had pretty much given up on it ever being released.
I'm not sure what the line "Pixel Enlargement Lab, Cologne, Germany 8/4/2023" was all about, i had a brief moment of hope where i thought it would be available in Europe (which would save about 150-200 eur in postage and customs fees) but i'm guessing that won't happen.

Anyway glad it will be released and looking forward to comparisons with the rt4k from someone that didnt get either or both as freebies

[citrus3000psi]

From the PCB photo of the Morph, it looks like a Trion T120F484C4, which is $35 in single-unit quantities, and probably around $20 in larger quantities.

Maybe we will do t-shirts with 35 dollar fpga on it.

[fernan1234]

The butthurt is real

At the end of the day it's the quality of the product that matters. We're lucky to be able to do some wallet voting in this hobby.

[bobrocks95]

I'd rather compare logic blocks, I/O pins, and other details instead of price. Like you said Guspaz, Efinix is pricing aggressively to gain market share.

Does anyone know what FPGA the Tink 5X has?

Not quite sure i dig their new corporate identity (actually i am sure) but i'm glad they will be coming out with the morph. I had pretty much given up on it ever being released.
I'm not sure what the line "Pixel Enlargement Lab, Cologne, Germany 8/4/2023" was all about, i had a brief moment of hope where i thought it would be available in Europe (which would save about 150-200 eur in postage and customs fees) but i'm guessing that won't happen.

Anyway glad it will be released and looking forward to comparisons with the rt4k from someone that didnt get either or both as freebies

[spmbx]

Thats awesome. I'll definitely keep an eye out for when they announce it, currently there is no option for it with their pre-orders. Thanks for the post!

[fernan1234]

Does anyone know what FPGA the Tink 5X has?

IIRC the 5X's chips are obscured to protect against cloning from the Bitfunxs of the world. We don't know if/when the FPGA on the 4K will be shown.

[kitty666cats]

Has Bob ever gotten a free product he hasn't praised to oblivion?

Nope

[orange808]

The Morph is using a very cheap Trion FPGA from Efinix. Efinix seems to be trying to make a play for marketshare based on aggressive pricing.

The real problem is that current manufacturers are employing very aggressively high pricing and exploiting their dominance of the market for fat profits. All I see here is healthy competition.

From outside looking in, I feel like everyone has been pouring resources into developing "IP" and other exclusive API features to lock customers into their ecosystem, versus innovation and better pricing for the actual hardware.

[Guspaz]

I think that the enthusiast use of FPGA is still pretty new, and Intel and AMD are still not used to them being treated closer to CPUs (not quite sold at retail, but almost) and still treat them like enterprise-only products where you get decent pricing if you want 100k units but if you want 100 units, those are just for development and can cost a fortune.

If Intel and AMD maintain that attitude, companies like Efinix are going to capture the “grass roots” part of the market, as it were, and any enthusiast products (not just from retro gaming) that happen to catch on and go mainstream will end up using Efinix products. Or seen another way, you get all these enthusiast FPGA developers using Trions and getting comfortable with the tool chain, what are those people going to recommend for their day jobs or when they’re trying to intentionally make a mainstream product using an FPGA? I think AMD and Intel are missing a step here.

For context, nVidia was putting Intel FPGAs into monitors that had MSRP (just for the FPGA) of more than the monitor retail price. Because they were getting like 90% discounts on them.

[ldeveraux]

I think that the enthusiast use of FPGA is still pretty new, and Intel and AMD are still not used to them being treated closer to CPUs (not quite sold at retail, but almost) and still treat them like enterprise-only products where you get decent pricing if you want 100k units but if you want 100 units, those are just for development and can cost a fortune.

If Intel and AMD maintain that attitude, companies like Efinix are going to capture the “grass roots” part of the market, as it were, and any enthusiast products (not just from retro gaming) that happen to catch on and go mainstream will end up using Efinix products. Or seen another way, you get all these enthusiast FPGA developers using Trions and getting comfortable with the tool chain, what are those people going to recommend for their day jobs or when they’re trying to intentionally make a mainstream product using an FPGA? I think AMD and Intel are missing a step here.

For context, nVidia was putting Intel FPGAs into monitors that had MSRP (just for the FPGA) of more than the monitor retail price. Because they were getting like 90% discounts on them.

Enthusiasts using FPGA in their products isn't new within this scope, Analogue started in 2016 at the latest. And don't confuse enthusuast with niche, nor cheap with affordable. A company trying to maximize profits by squeazing the little guy is nothing new. But Red and Blue trying to develop their own products is a good thing. This is opposed to what they would usually do which is buy the smaller company out.

[orange808]

BNC inputs? I like that. A lot.

[bobrocks95]

Digging through Q&A another comparison point for Morph vs Tink- Morph supports HDMI-CEC and there was even mention I believe of controlling Morph menus with GEM modded systems via the console controller? Mike said CEC protocol was a mess so he wouldn't be adding it.

On the other hand, I believe Mike has said the Tink 4K will strip HDCP while the Morph will not.

[VEGETA]

CEC protocol

I believe it is not really an important feature for us retro gamers. a complication which is not really necessary. I mean we got a remote and we will have like very few stuff to control anyway.
However, it is nice that people are requesting such stuff that could potentially drive products to be better.

On the other hand, I believe Mike has said the Tink 4K will strip HDCP while the Morph will not.

what i know is that modern consoles do have the option to output without hdcp. hdcp license is about 15000$ per year! huge waste of money for literally zero benefit for us. for maybe ps3 i believe it is harder to disable hdcp so you can just use a very cheap stripper\splitter\etc to do it.

on a side note, i am interested how scalers like this do the crt masks. do they have an image of the mask overlayed on top of the video? this question because of customized scanlines\masks features... how can i the user install my own mask?

[Woozle]

I'd rather compare logic blocks, I/O pins, and other details instead of price. Like you said Guspaz, Efinix is pricing aggressively to gain market share.

Here you go.

Intel Cyclone 10


Efinix Trion


We're using the Efinix Trion T120 which is $35. It has 112K logic elements, 320 multipliers, 5.4 Mbit block ram, and a 1GHz DDR2 hard memory controller.

The Intel 10CL120 is ~$200. With 119K logic elements, 288 multipliers, 3.8 Mbit block ram, not sure if it has a DDR2 controller.

The Pixel FX hdmi kits use FPGAs from Intel (PS1D HW1), Xilinx (N64D HW1), and Efinix (DCDigital) with the same FX-Framework FPGA code auto-built for each chip. We get the best performance out of Efinix Trion FPGAs hands down, and their price is great so it was an easy decision to switch entirely to Trion FPGAs.

In the end I don't think it's the FPGA that matters, more what you do with it. The Trion T120 can crunch 4K video no problem with plenty of spare room for future updates.