HARD ROCK SOLDIER x HEAVY METAL KILLER: Rawk Thread

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BIL
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Re: HARD ROCK SOLDIER x HEAVY METAL KILLER: Rawk Thread

Post by BIL »

Lord British wrote: Wed Mar 19, 2025 8:57 pm
BIL wrote: Wed Mar 19, 2025 8:37 pm
vol.2 wrote: Tue Jan 21, 2025 9:11 pm

Great little moment for a lot of retro metal about that time in the oughts. I saw them on that tour in DC at the 9:30 club and I got one of the guitar picks Lemmy through into the audience (he tended to do that a lot).
I was lucky to see them in London a few years earlier for Inferno, one of the vanishingly few concerts I've been to in my life. My teeth were ringing for days. :cool: They had a great final decade, between Inferno and Bad Magic. Buddy went out on the road like he swore he would. ;w;7

Reminded, per Movie thread's Fulci tip, that for such a cheese-prone bunch of big-haired poofters, EUROPE have some fuckin killer early cuts. Explosive power and dynamism on par with Maiden's ST; John Norum's muscular tone and athletic prowess easily recalling fellow Swede Andy LaRocque's King Diamond work. And honestly, Joey Tempest got some fuckin pipes, a bellowing croon reminding me of a slightly more refined Graham Bonnet. Cracking fiery lyrics too. Any appreciator of The Beyond is a friend of mine Image

> IN THE FUTURE TO COME
> SCREAM OF ANGER
> SEVEN DOORS HOTEL


I remember choosing to believe "Future's" Hold on was actually Oh lawd ala War Pigs. :cool: Oh lawd / Where will it end?!

What a great line though, bleak as it is indomitable. Hold on until we start to pretend that we can survive in the future to come

ala Leppard, they're the kind of outfit I'm sure continued making quality stuff, just abjectly outside my subject area. I'll blast the early stuff any day though.
Andy LaRoque is my #1

And yeah, it's definitely interesting to hear early Europe doing straight heavy metal. They were kinda like a Swedish Loudness from '82-'84
Legend. Image Image Got into his work via Abigail cohort Mikkey Dee's long Motorhead tenure, coincidentally. Scandinavia is a mighty metal people! ABBA too ofc

And on that bombshell: I just realised In The Future To Come's lyric is Oh Lawd, but also "Can we stop to pretend that we can survive." Which tbh I think works out about the same! Image
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Re: HARD ROCK SOLDIER x HEAVY METAL KILLER: Rawk Thread

Post by Randorama »

BIL wrote: Wed Mar 19, 2025 9:25 pm Scandinavia is a mighty metal people!
In the five years in Sweden, I met Joey Tempest (I lived in his hometown, Upplands Väsby), Mikael Akerfeldt from Opeth (the only other guy in the pub on an absurdly cold Good Friday night) and Tobias Forge/Ghost was a student in my department while at SU (…we knew who he was, but we played along to maintain the ‘mystery identity’ act). I would sometimes go to ‘2112’, In Flames’s pub in Gothenburg. These are just a few examples I can recall off the top of my head, and I limiting myself to metal people. The ratio citizen:musician is rather high, at least in Sweden.
"The only desire the Culture could not satisfy from within itself was one common to both the descendants of its original human stock and the machines [...]: the urge not to feel useless."

I.M. Banks, "Consider Phlebas" (1988: 43).
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Re: HARD ROCK SOLDIER x HEAVY METAL KILLER: Rawk Thread

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I've never been anywhere, but I'm going to Steelfest in Finland next month. I'm not a big black metal fan, but my friend asked me if I was interested in going, so I thought "WTF, why not?".
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Re: HARD ROCK SOLDIER x HEAVY METAL KILLER: Rawk Thread

Post by Lord British »

Lemmy Kilmister and Bob Mould's landmark side project will be reissued in May!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeF6xOjSNxE
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Re: HARD ROCK SOLDIER x HEAVY METAL KILLER: Rawk Thread

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Lord British wrote: Tue Apr 01, 2025 1:52 pm Lemmy Kilmister and Bob Mould's landmark side project will be reissued in May!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeF6xOjSNxE
Apt description. :mrgreen: Fuckin killer record. That balls-hard tone does sound recall 1916, now you mention it. ANIMAL DAY's clean breaks always haunt. Image Surprisingly agile when it wants to be. (DISICPLINE) Even the covers GHETTO and HEAVEN are made their own.
Lord British wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 5:16 pm I've never been anywhere, but I'm going to Steelfest in Finland next month. I'm not a big black metal fan, but my friend asked me if I was interested in going, so I thought "WTF, why not?".
Good going! I sometimes wish I'd travelled more, I always seem to land somewhere and stay put forever. Happy and stable but grass greener etc etc.
Randorama wrote: Mon Mar 31, 2025 5:00 pm
BIL wrote: Wed Mar 19, 2025 9:25 pm Scandinavia is a mighty metal people!
In the five years in Sweden, I met Joey Tempest (I lived in his hometown, Upplands Väsby), Mikael Akerfeldt from Opeth (the only other guy in the pub on an absurdly cold Good Friday night) and Tobias Forge/Ghost was a student in my department while at SU (…we knew who he was, but we played along to maintain the ‘mystery identity’ act). I would sometimes go to ‘2112’, In Flames’s pub in Gothenburg. These are just a few examples I can recall off the top of my head, and I limiting myself to metal people. The ratio citizen:musician is rather high, at least in Sweden.
Man that sounds amazing. :o Nothing like a quiet pub and good company on a cold night.

I actually had some experience of growing up in a close-knit music nation, but being a country boy, my biggest meet was bagging groceries with then-unknown Sean Paul and never-really-known Red Rat. :cool: Was totally disinterested in local stuff... in hindsight I should've been more grateful. That said, as another fond acquaintance testified, it gets ugly in the most happening spots, never seemed worth it for a square dude only in town to study. (good guy, Mr. Wales... did the paperwork for the ambulance he imported from the US, his thanks for the hospital who saved him after an eventful night in Kingston's never particularly welcoming bar scene ;w;7)
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Re: HARD ROCK SOLDIER x HEAVY METAL KILLER: Rawk Thread

Post by Lord British »

Just got back to Chicago from Steelfest in Finland. My first time overseas, what a great time!

Standouts to me were Absu, Urn, and Misþyrming from Iceland.
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Re: HARD ROCK SOLDIER x HEAVY METAL KILLER: Rawk Thread

Post by vol.2 »

Lord British wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 5:41 pm Just got back to Chicago from Steelfest in Finland. My first time overseas, what a great time!

Standouts to me were Absu, Urn, and Misþyrming from Iceland.
fuck yeah. Sounds awesome. I thought you must be somewhere due to the lack of movie posts in recent days.
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Re: HARD ROCK SOLDIER x HEAVY METAL KILLER: Rawk Thread

Post by Lord British »

vol.2 wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 9:24 pm
Lord British wrote: Wed May 21, 2025 5:41 pm Just got back to Chicago from Steelfest in Finland. My first time overseas, what a great time!

Standouts to me were Absu, Urn, and Misþyrming from Iceland.
fuck yeah. Sounds awesome. I thought you must be somewhere due to the lack of movie posts in recent days.
Yeah, gotta get back in the movie groove!
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Re: HARD ROCK SOLDIER x HEAVY METAL KILLER: Rawk Thread

Post by Lord British »

Corey Feldman + Musical Talent = Dave Mustaine
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Re: HARD ROCK SOLDIER x HEAVY METAL KILLER: Rawk Thread

Post by Herr Schatten »

Whee, a new Sodom album is out, and it's a surprising amount of fun. I did not expect them to at least partly succeed in recreating their best phase ca. 1989/1990, but obviously, bringing back Frank Blackfire didn't hurt, as you can hear his signature style of playing guitar all over the place.

This homage to their former drummer is awesome. It would have been cool if the whole album was on this level, but I guess that's a little too much to ask nowadays.

Sound production wise it's pretty cool, too. Best snare sound in thrash since Kreator's Renewal.
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Re: HARD ROCK SOLDIER x HEAVY METAL KILLER: Rawk Thread

Post by Lord British »

Herr Schatten wrote: Fri Jun 27, 2025 1:04 pm Whee, a new Sodom album is out, and it's a surprising amount of fun. I did not expect them to at least partly succeed in recreating their best phase ca. 1989/1990, but obviously, bringing back Frank Blackfire didn't hurt, as you can hear his signature style of playing guitar all over the place.

This homage to their former drummer is awesome. It would have been cool if the whole album was on this level, but I guess that's a little too much to ask nowadays.

Sound production wise it's pretty cool, too. Best snare sound in thrash since Kreator's Renewal.
They finally came to Chicago this past fall (w/Dismember). It was so awesome to see Frank with them as well.
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Re: HARD ROCK SOLDIER x HEAVY METAL KILLER: Rawk Thread

Post by RottenToTheGore »

This year has been good to me for metal. Saw Carcass, Cannibal Corpse and Emperor recently.

Not a fan of going to shows by myself, fortunately I'm now seeing someone who enjoys going to shows with me. Even got tickets for Maryland Deathfest next year (only my second time going, which is sad because I've lived in MD my whole life).

Also got into buying more physical music in the past couple years and decided to try and collect everything I can from the Japanese band Abigail. Pretty sure I'm up to around 50 different releases O_O (They're one of those bands that puts out tons of splits, live shows, etc)
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Ozzy: the new ruler in Hell?

Post by Randorama »

We all know that Ozzy Osbourne left us, but I wanted to post a couple of links regarding some of the homages he received in his hometown: here and here. Forever a Villan, Ozzy!

I decided to listen again to Black Sabbath's classic albums and I must say that Metal is one of those genres that evolved considerably due to the evolution of the technology and instruments used in it. To my 2025 self, Sabbath sound like "moderate hard rock" rather than "Heavy Metal", though they are still a class act. Happy that Ozzy was finally able to see Aston Villa again playing Champions League, though. Truth to be told, however, I was expecting Ozzy to be immortal. As the saying goes, "Only the good die young, while evil seems to live on forever".

Or, was it Maiden? :? :wink:
"The only desire the Culture could not satisfy from within itself was one common to both the descendants of its original human stock and the machines [...]: the urge not to feel useless."

I.M. Banks, "Consider Phlebas" (1988: 43).
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Re: Ozzy: the new ruler in Hell?

Post by Lord British »

Randorama wrote: Fri Jul 25, 2025 1:46 pm We all know that Ozzy Osbourne left us, but I wanted to post a couple of links regarding some of the homages he received in his hometown: here and here. Forever a Villan, Ozzy!

I decided to listen again to Black Sabbath's classic albums and I must say that Metal is one of those genres that evolved considerably due to the evolution of the technology and instruments used in it. To my 2025 self, Sabbath sound like "moderate hard rock" rather than "Heavy Metal", though they are still a class act. Happy that Ozzy was finally able to see Aston Villa again playing Champions League, though. Truth to be told, however, I was expecting Ozzy to be immortal. As the saying goes, "Only the good die young, while evil seems to live on forever".

Or, was it Maiden? :? :wink:
Billy Joel
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Re: Ozzy: the new ruler in Hell?

Post by Randorama »

Lord British wrote: Fri Jul 25, 2025 2:30 pm
Randorama wrote: Fri Jul 25, 2025 1:46 pm [...] As the saying goes, "Only the good die young, while evil seems to live on forever".

Or, was it Maiden? :? :wink:
Billy Joel
Of course I meant Iron Maiden, though the actual quote should have been:

"Only the good die young
All the evil seem to live forever".

The lyrics are here, and the album is Seventh Son of a Seventh Son. Not that I actually dislike Billy Joel, but this is the thread for the heavier stuff, isn't it? :wink:
"The only desire the Culture could not satisfy from within itself was one common to both the descendants of its original human stock and the machines [...]: the urge not to feel useless."

I.M. Banks, "Consider Phlebas" (1988: 43).
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Re: Ozzy: the new ruler in Hell?

Post by Lord British »

Randorama wrote: Fri Jul 25, 2025 3:06 pm
Lord British wrote: Fri Jul 25, 2025 2:30 pm
Randorama wrote: Fri Jul 25, 2025 1:46 pm [...] As the saying goes, "Only the good die young, while evil seems to live on forever".

Or, was it Maiden? :? :wink:
Billy Joel
Of course I meant Iron Maiden, though the actual quote should have been:

"Only the good die young
All the evil seem to live forever".

The lyrics are here, and the album is Seventh Son of a Seventh Son. Not that I actually dislike Billy Joel, but this is the thread for the heavier stuff, isn't it? :wink:
Yeah I was joking. I think I've seen Maiden 10 times.
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Re: HARD ROCK SOLDIER x HEAVY METAL KILLER: Rawk Thread

Post by vol.2 »

Sabbath was very misunderstood by the general public. The lyrics were mostly all written by Geezer Butler, the bassist who was a born-again Christian. His allusions to satanic consequences were intended as a admonishment of what he saw as political and societal sins. War mongering and capitalism mostly, although he had a healthy number of songs dedicated to the dangers of drugs and the pain of existential isolation. Their "demonic" posturing was merely a flair for the dramatic and didn't heavily involve satanic imagery, except for Born Again, and I think that one was supposed to be played as a joke or satire of their career and past image anyway.

I had a close friend who was a born again himself and he wouldn't listen to Sabbath because he believed that they crossed some sort of imaginary line in his belief system to where they were profiting off of a satanic image. Some people have a hard time with shades of grey and in finding humor in matters of philosophy and religion. Too rigid for my tastes, but he was a rigid guy. In the end he was a little too brittle, although it's hard to say that it did him in. I can say for sure that it made him a very lonely and unhappy person, whether or not that lack of flexibility led to his untimely demise.
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Re: HARD ROCK SOLDIER x HEAVY METAL KILLER: Rawk Thread

Post by Randorama »

Vol. 2:

Personally, I believe that "the general public" is a bit of very vague label, to be honest. I'd go with "casual listeners", so that we can talk about single individuals more easily.

So, I think that casual listeners keep track of one most superficial aspect/Facet and ignore all the rest, especially if artists try convey to messages that require careful analysis while loud guitars (music: think of rock songs offering social commentary...) and other very distracting elements feature prominently. I also think that casual listeners may be generally aware of the most popular song by a band, the one that might feature at the radio or go viral on social media (and so on), and lack awareness of a band beyond this very shallow exposure. Casual listeners are casual, indeed.

Said this, I remember reading musicology/psycholinguistic studies showing how genres with stripped down musical structure (e.g. folk broadly defined, country, rap, etc.) allow listeners to better understand lyrics simply because "the music does not get in the way". I can dig up again the links to the papers on request: I was struggling to find them, right now. The general result though, from what I could gather, is that song lyrics are not so easy to decode anyway, especially if people want to be entertained (=relieved of boredom). Personally, I struggle to remember the content of any lyrics outside rap songs, and I actually have to be interested in the songs to make the effort of remembering. Even when I am not a casual listener (i.e. I focus on a song I appreciate), I tend to gloss over texts. If somebody has some criticism to move against war, I prefer a simple written text reporting specific evidence, possibly to be read in quiet and peace :wink:

I'd add that this is a general tendency: how many people watch anime/movies/tv series to see bright explosions and miss whatever points the writers/directors wanted to make? Think of Gundam and any anime with an anti-war message, like Votoms, which started with a virulently anti-war series and ended up as a "military weapons" franchise to sell mechas to the otakus. Again, I for one generally do not pay attention to messages, even though I can admire artists who wish to convey something via their art: it is a though proposition, technically speaking. I also admit that I struggle to take messages seriously when they are packaged into extremely expensive audio-visual productions from big studios, as in this case. I am more willing to pay attention to single artists with simple messages, but provided that they actually know the subject matter.

Re: irony. I believe that I saw an Anglican priest in the pictures of Ozzy's funeral, and I remember reading that "the Prince of Darkness" was actually a staunch supporter of various humanitarian's causes, via the local (Anglican) churches. I am more or less sure that he loathed mentioning any of this in public. More in general, though, I am aware that several Metal artists orbiting around the whole "Satanic/dark" imagery like to play it with a very "meta-fictional" attitude. Mikael Åkerfeldt of Opeth makes jokes about "Black Metal non-sense" (about lyrics) during concerts. I think that Ozzy in particular really like the self-ironical jokes, as he apparently had this really sophisticated sense of humour. A legend I heard is that he would sneak in at Aston Villa matches (association football? Black Metal? Nonsense!...he tried to be discreet, in general), and recite forbidden spells when the team was playing poorly and/or in need to score goals :wink:
Last edited by Randorama on Sat Jul 26, 2025 5:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: HARD ROCK SOLDIER x HEAVY METAL KILLER: Rawk Thread

Post by vol.2 »

Randorama wrote: Sat Jul 26, 2025 3:11 am Vol. 2:
Yes, I did know that Ozzy was a devote Anglican, and that his ethos did not fall too far from the tree established by Butler's in-band universe.

Sure, "casual listener" if you want to get pedantic about it I'll cede that. My point was that I believe that most people, especially during Sabbath's existence and for a couple decades on, believed that they were an essentially satanic rock band, and did not differentiate them from Celtic Frost or Mayhem or Emperor in that respect; perhaps only by a matter of degree or intesity. The "casual listener" though didn't really care about that, they would listen to it just the same and more or less take it for rock music and not look much deeper; some rock music talks about the devil (AC/DC anyone?) and that's just a bunch of posturing and fun to most people.

It wasn't until Sharon started "The Osbournes" when most people became aware that Ozzy went to church every Sunday. If people thought any further about it than that, and so far back as to Sabbath, I doubt that would have led to sudden realizations that Sabbath wasn't satanic; rather I think that it would simply lead them to assume that Sabbath was theatrics (which it was anyway). And that's only if they did think about it.

I still think that most people fall into this category and that could be described as "the general public;" especially when you have some people (like my afore mentioned friend) who actively accuse them of Satanism for their image.

But no, I think that aside from the theatrics, which were employed to grab attention, Butler was and is quite serious in his religious devotion. Sabbath isn't just not a satanic band, they are very much an intensely "Christian" rock band, with serious lyrics written by a fundamentalist hippy Christian.
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Re: HARD ROCK SOLDIER x HEAVY METAL KILLER: Rawk Thread

Post by Randorama »

Well, my general point is that casual consumers may focus on the superficial aspects of an artistic work, or an artist behind a work, and may go with whatever label/brand that someone may have previously stuck on works and artists and that is easy to recall even if not even related to the artistic work and/or artist's vision. Consumerism is about consuming blindly and ignorantly, as far as I can tell.

In this case we have a band that chose its name more or less half a century ago (1970?), and more or less as a form of nuanced auto-irony. They then had some turbulent years when they were really popular, subsequently changed direction in the way they presented themselves, and so on. I think that "Satanists" may require zero intellectual effort and allows "casuals" to pigeonhole Black Sabbath in some category or another. Truth to be told, I wonder if in 2025, casual consumers from a Westernised country would even know, who Black Sabbath were.

Personally, I think that Aston Villa's supporters offered a great tribute to the man, though:

Image
"The only desire the Culture could not satisfy from within itself was one common to both the descendants of its original human stock and the machines [...]: the urge not to feel useless."

I.M. Banks, "Consider Phlebas" (1988: 43).
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Re: HARD ROCK SOLDIER x HEAVY METAL KILLER: Rawk Thread

Post by vol.2 »

Randorama wrote: Sat Jul 26, 2025 6:34 pmTruth to be told, I wonder if in 2025, casual consumers from a Westernised country would even know, who Black Sabbath were.
I think that Gen Z is surprisingly adept and knowledgeable when it comes to the western pop culture canon. Being raised on what is mostly the modern internet and searching for things as second nature helps quite a bit. Plus it's all on Spotify and Youtube, just a click away. A lot of this stuff finds it's way to them via tiktok though. My 21 year old nephew knows who they are and he's not even especially into rock music.

But YMMV I suppose. Only have the sample size of people that I meet of course. Although I have developed a strong feeling that Gen Z has a lot more collective cultural savvy than the Millennials do.
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Sharon, give me the preds!

Post by Randorama »

Well, I guess that the type of knowledge that Gen Z might have about "pop culture canon" might be the topic of some sociology papers, but I guess that I will dig them up at later time.

Speaking of which: I currently work in China at a big university, and I have seen students with Black Sabbath t-shirts. I asked the student if and how he would know Sabbath, and he told me that he was a member of the university's "Hard Rock and Heavy Metal" society (student societies/clubs are common here and in South Korea, not just Japan). To cut a long story short, he initially listened to "classical" bands due to his senior students' introducing Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, AC/DC etc. as foundational acts that they should know for historical reasons. The student however realised that he their classic albums and bought a T-shirt as a consequence.

Note here that for him the whole "Satanism" issue was near non-sensical, as he took for granted that all artists with a certain degree of popularity would create a "Stage persona" to sell, and he knew quite a bit about the group and Ozzy's history (he was a uni student of a music society, after all). I didn't ask him any opinions about Satanism as a religion, though.

Interestingly, my experience with Chinese people with some degree of education is that they tend to separate artistic works from authors in a rather robust manner and can enjoy works even when their creators may have questionable ideas or personal histories. I had discussions about Lovecraft but also some iconic western figures with highly questionable pasts (e.g. Rolling Stones), and in general my interlocutors said something like "love the art, ignore the artist". Some of these interlocutors also even sound rather jaded, as if they were not expecting artists in general to be "upstanding members of society".

I actually discussed Lovecraft's stories, Warhammer 40k and Gundam with a bartender of a pub in Beijing, one night I was visiting for a conference, and I went to drink by myself (eh!). His one-liner to conclude the conversation on Lovecraft and his racism was: "well, Lovecraft was dark-skinned, right?". You would have loved his Space Hulk miniatures with Gundam RX-0078 (i.e. Amuno Roy's) and crimson red (i.e. Char's) insignias, I suspect :wink:

On a similar note, my older sister-in-law is South Korean and a classical piano professor at a university and told me that it would really be difficult to enjoy classical music if one would strongly couple artist and art in a single whole. She started offering a really long list of "canon" composers who reached rockstar-like levels of debauchery in their lifetimes. I remember that she mentioned Liszt, Beethoven, Wagner, Mozart and Brahms, among others. Rock'n Roll does not seem to have invented the "artist as a damned soul" trope, all in all :wink:
"The only desire the Culture could not satisfy from within itself was one common to both the descendants of its original human stock and the machines [...]: the urge not to feel useless."

I.M. Banks, "Consider Phlebas" (1988: 43).
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Re: Sharon, give me the preds!

Post by vol.2 »

Randorama wrote: Sun Jul 27, 2025 3:33 am "well, Lovecraft was dark-skinned, right?"
Hahaha. Lovecraft was a weird conflicted guy. hbomberguy did a great video on Lovecraft some years ago. If you can watch YT videos I would highly recommend checking it out, it's only about 30 minutes.

Rock'n Roll does not seem to have invented the "artist as a damned soul" trope, all in all :wink:
Of course not! Although there is a cultural difference in composed academic music and popular music that gives rock musicians the ability to embrace anti-social personas. Beethoven may have been running around with his junk hanging out his trousers, but I really doubt that musicians were the only powerful men to have affairs.

Rock musicians OTOH inherited the tradition of the outlaw song and subsequently took it to new heights with the introduction of references to the occult and fantasy characters of great and vile descriptions. The Academy has such rules of decorum to where that stuff has to stay below the surface.
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Sharon, give me the press!

Post by Randorama »

Well, regarding Lovecraft, I feel that some authors work fine if one reads them at a certain age - I struggle to read anything outside SF in fiction, these days. I have bookmarked the link though, thank you :wink:

Regarding classical composers of past centuries though, I wonder how much of their ‘bad behaviour’ was common knowledge at the time. I do not doubt that European societies of the 18th/19th had much more rigid societal norms than their current counterparts, but some of these figures apparently regularly failed to keep their misdemeanor under the lid more often than not (e.g. Beethoven, Wagner).

Most modern musicians need exposure at all costs to make a living, so playing ‘outlaw’ personas is in my view an occupational necessity/hazard. I am being a bit contemptuous here - I might have become too cynic with age and tend to see most art (and artists) as posturing. I do appreciate skilled posturing across genres, though :wink:
"The only desire the Culture could not satisfy from within itself was one common to both the descendants of its original human stock and the machines [...]: the urge not to feel useless."

I.M. Banks, "Consider Phlebas" (1988: 43).
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