SNES/Famicon PCB Revisions and RGB Video

[Shoryukev]

Both of my SNES consoles have the vertical bar, my 1-chip system is less noticeable but it's still there. It really stands out on the title screen for Final Fantasy 3...but otherwise isn't really an issue.

[noonan2678]

Same for me as above... more jailbars rather than the centered vertical bars though. It literally only shows up, faintly, in a few games I've noticed, along with the FFIII intro as many have stated. It's interesting though that many other completely black screen have no signs of it whatsoever. I'm going to add the amp anyway and I'll post the results after.

[mvsfan]

I cant see the stripe on my 1-chip-03.

the only console i have that i can see it on is an APU.

and i only really notice it on final fantasy 3.

[AndehX]

my PAL 1-CHIP-01 shows the vertical bar quite noticably in the background of Crateria on Super Metroid

[RGB0b]

I've now had a few people tell me the 3-capacitor trick worked for them: http://www.retrorgb.com/images/SNESVert ... lVtFix.jpg

It's a totally reversible mod, so I suggest giving it a try. Also, replaceing the DC-DC converter might help as well (scroll down): http://www.retrorgb.com/snestips.html

Let me know if it works for you guys. I haven't run across a white-line console in awhile, so I haven't had the chance to test these fixes.

[Blair]

@Blair Yes it came with an original power supply.

I'll try to take some pics. I only have my phone as a camera though, so it's not gonna do it justice

oh that's okay, I'm just using my cheesy little android phone for taking pictures as well.

the thing that gives you the best quality for taking CRT photos is manual focus adjustment, (that's how I get such nice scanline pictures, at least I think they look nice).

and lowering the ISO, you want to get the room dark as possible and then turn your ISO down to 200 to 400 depending on how bright your screen is ( that eliminates excess grain).

if you want your colors to look right you probably have to adjust the white balance (for most PVM's I've found that setting it to sunny or florescent helps, but the auto white balance feature might work just as well).

[Pasky]

I've now had a few people tell me the 3-capacitor trick worked for them: http://www.retrorgb.com/images/SNESVert ... lVtFix.jpg

It's a totally reversible mod, so I suggest giving it a try. Also, replaceing the DC-DC converter might help as well (scroll down): http://www.retrorgb.com/snestips.html

Let me know if it works for you guys. I haven't run across a white-line console in awhile, so I haven't had the chance to test these fixes.

I wouldn't recommend that DC-DC converter, you're just going to introduce switching noise into the 5V rail because it's a SMPS.

The capacitor trick has been known to work because it's been believed the vertical bar is caused by the power drop during the DRAM refresh. Having that capacitor on the 5V rail and regulator gives it a nice reserve so it never droops. Putting two on the video encoder is completely unnecessary. a 470uF or 1000uF (some systems have 2 vertical bars) on the 5V regulator is sufficient

[FinalBaton]

oh that's okay, I'm just using my cheesy little android phone for taking pictures as well.

the thing that gives you the best quality for taking CRT photos is manual focus adjustment, (that's how I get such nice scanline pictures, at least I think they look nice).

and lowering the ISO, you want to get the room dark as possible and then turn your ISO down to 200 to 400 depending on how bright your screen is ( that eliminates excess grain).

if you want your colors to look right you probably have to adjust the white balance (for most PVM's I've found that setting it to sunny or florescent helps, but the auto white balance feature might work just as well).

Yeah, I take my CRT pics with the lights off as well. And with low iso too (200 iso is what I rock with)

I don't have a manual focus on my phone though. Only 2 options : macro or normal.

[RGB0b]

I wouldn't recommend that DC-DC converter, you're just going to introduce switching noise into the 5V rail because it's a SMPS.

Have you seen this happen with that style DC-DC converter? I've been using one for awhile and have not noticed any issues. I usually have a good eye for noise...but I realize that's a subjective statement; I never verified with a scope or anything. Was just curious if anyone else had issues.

The capacitor trick has been known to work because it's been believed the vertical bar is caused by the power drop during the DRAM refresh. Having that capacitor on the 5V rail and regulator gives it a nice reserve so it never droops. Putting two on the video encoder is completely unnecessary. a 470uF or 1000uF (some systems have 2 vertical bars) on the 5V regulator is sufficient

I have not been able to test this myself, as the last handful of Mini's / 1CHIP's I've seen don't have any hint of a white line at all. That being said, I've had people email to tell me they needed all three caps for the line to completely disappear. I have no way to verify this at all though, I'm only relaying the information. It would be awesome if anyone here can test the issue on their SNES and see what kind of results they get.

I'm also curious if there's any possibility that adding the caps can cause adverse effects. Doubt it, but I'm not an EE.

[Pasky]

I wouldn't recommend that DC-DC converter, you're just going to introduce switching noise into the 5V rail because it's a SMPS.

Have you seen this happen with that style DC-DC converter? I've been using one for awhile and have not noticed any issues. I usually have a good eye for noise...but I realize that's a subjective statement; I never verified with a scope or anything. Was just curious if anyone else had issues.

The capacitor trick has been known to work because it's been believed the vertical bar is caused by the power drop during the DRAM refresh. Having that capacitor on the 5V rail and regulator gives it a nice reserve so it never droops. Putting two on the video encoder is completely unnecessary. a 470uF or 1000uF (some systems have 2 vertical bars) on the 5V regulator is sufficient

I have not been able to test this myself, as the last handful of Mini's / 1CHIP's I've seen don't have any hint of a white line at all. That being said, I've had people email to tell me they needed all three caps for the line to completely disappear. I have no way to verify this at all though, I'm only relaying the information. It would be awesome if anyone here can test the issue on their SNES and see what kind of results they get.

I'm also curious if there's any possibility that adding the caps can cause adverse effects. Doubt it, but I'm not an EE.

A CRT won't show the noise as obvious as a LCD. I haven't used one in a SNES but I have in a NES and the switching noise was pretty apparent.

If they're saying they need the additional capacitors to make it go away then it's obviously they needed a higher capacitance capacitor not more of them, they're just putting them in parallel. Putting more bypass caps on the encoder itself does nothing, it's the 5V rail that's important as the line doesn't come from the encoder, it comes from the DRAM refresh...

[AndehX]

It would be awesome if anyone here can test the issue on their SNES and see what kind of results they get.

I'm also curious if there's any possibility that adding the caps can cause adverse effects. Doubt it, but I'm not an EE.

My 1-CHIP-01 has pretty noticable vertical bars. I see them on Super Metroid. So I'll put capacitor on the voltage regulator sometime over the weekend and report back how it turns out.

[Blair]

vertical bars?

you mean you have more than one?

[AndehX]

vertical bars?

you mean you have more than one?

yeah, there's like a light bar and a darker bar right next to each other in the middle of the screen

you can clearly see it here:

[tjstogy]

vertical bars?

you mean you have more than one?

yeah, there's like a light bar and a darker bar right next to each other in the middle of the screen

you can clearly see it here:

Doing retrorgb's/bortis amp mod got rid of mine on my 1-chip-03

http://retrorgb.com/1chiprgb.html

I'm still trying to figure out the weird horizontal lines I'm getting on a white text/black background (and other weird lines) on my Genesis but that's another thread...

[AndehX]

Doing retrorgb's/bortis amp mod got rid of mine on my 1-chip-03

http://retrorgb.com/1chiprgb.html

Yeah, im gonna try adding a 470uf capacitor to the voltage regulator first, and if that doesn't work, then i'll do the RGB amp mod.

Oh and a bit off-topic, but I just finished painting my SNES yesterday (it was ugly and yellow)

[RGB0b]

A CRT won't show the noise as obvious as a LCD. I haven't used one in a SNES but I have in a NES and the switching noise was pretty apparent.

I checked with a capture card directly, upscaler through a capture card, CRT and LCD. Maybe I just don't know what to look for? Is this something we can get a picture of?

If they're saying they need the additional capacitors to make it go away then it's obviously they needed a higher capacitance capacitor not more of them, they're just putting them in parallel. Putting more bypass caps on the encoder itself does nothing, it's the 5V rail that's important as the line doesn't come from the encoder, it comes from the DRAM refresh...

Good info, thank you.

My 1-CHIP-01 has pretty noticable vertical bars. I see them on Super Metroid. So I'll put capacitor on the voltage regulator sometime over the weekend and report back how it turns out.

Thank you!

Doing retrorgb's/bortis amp mod got rid of mine on my 1-chip-03

I've personally witnessed this myself a bunch of times. That, combined with the fact that it's an easier mod (then the 3-wire), is why I recommended people use the THS7314 solution on the SNES Mini. After seeing the difference in chip sharpness (with the filter off) I'll now recommend the THS7374 solution, as soon as one is available (I believe one's about a month away). That being said, finding a "proper" solution for the vertical line, such as the cap trick would be awesome.

[AndehX]

Ok, just added a 470uf capacitor to the 7805 and I can confirm it has completely fixed the vertical bar. Excuse my reflection

[Shoryukev]

Ok, just added a 470uf capacitor to the 7805 and I can confirm it has completely fixed the vertical bar. Excuse my reflection

Excellent!!! I'm going to give it a shot with mine as well, as it looks pretty much exactly like your "before" picture

[AndehX]

I have to thank Pasky though, as he suggested that only the 1 capacitor was needed on the 7805, which he was right about.

[Pasky]

I checked with a capture card directly, upscaler through a capture card, CRT and LCD. Maybe I just don't know what to look for? Is this something we can get a picture of?

Switching noise will usually look like a diagonal wave going in one direction over the video signal, and then going back to the other direction and repeating. If it's not visible it may be fine, but I wouldn't expect that on every SNES revision. I certainly noticed it on my NES top loader when I tried a switching 7805 replacement.

[RGB0b]

Switching noise will usually look like a diagonal wave going in one direction over the video signal, and then going back to the other direction and repeating. If it's not visible it may be fine, but I wouldn't expect that on every SNES revision. I certainly noticed it on my NES top loader when I tried a switching 7805 replacement.

I'll definitely look for that. I've actually seen what you describe (through a capture card) on non-modded SNES', but didn't have the opportunity to work on them.

Ok, just added a 470uf capacitor to the 7805 and I can confirm it has completely fixed the vertical bar.

Awesome, I'll try that the next time I find a vertical line SNES.

[Seraphic]

Okay, I turned the filter off by connecting pin 9 to 5v rather then ground (page 7, thanks to db Elec for the tip): http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/ths7374.pdf

Very cool! I recall seeing the LPF pin when I installed a THS7374 in a mini 3+ years ago, but never tried bypassing the LPF!

Looks like Micomsoft left provisions for bypassing the LPF in their application of the THS7374 in the XSYNC-1, but decided to enable it. I had wondered if the switch on the underside of the XSYNC-1 was a toggle for this, but have confirmed it isn't wired for that function.


R40 connects THS7374 pin 9 to ground via a 4.7k ohm resistor. R42 is left unpopulated - LHS is 5VDC, RHS is pin 9. Remove R40 and jumper (or use a resistor) R42 to bypass the LPF!

This brings up an interesting point though - The THS7314 used in many projects has an undefeatable LPF. Perhaps people can get a slight improvement in sharpness from your THS7314 circuits if you updated them for use with the THS7374!

Is there another device similar to the XSYNC-1 that will take JP-21 and convert to HD-15 but not apply a LPF?

[RGB32E]

Is there another device similar to the XSYNC-1 that will take JP-21 and convert to HD-15 but not apply a LPF?

It's an easy mod to disable the LPF on the XSYNC-1 - remove R40, jumper or add a resistor to R42. One could even add a switch to enable/disable the LPF!

[Seraphic]

Is there another device similar to the XSYNC-1 that will take JP-21 and convert to HD-15 but not apply a LPF?

It's an easy mod to disable the LPF on the XSYNC-1 - remove R40, jumper or add a resistor to R42. One could even add a switch to enable/disable the LPF!

That is good to know. But sounds like it requires a solder kit and some experience.

[mvsfan]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Super-Nintendo- ... true&rt=nc


What a deal this guy got. i dont see this often anymore.

[Guspaz]

Assuming that it can be cleaned, and that whatever problem with it can be easily fixed, sure...

[Voultar]

If you're going to use a switching regulator, put an adequate inductor on there to take the edge off.

[tjsynkral]

Well, you could try Tavatri's SNES Sharp Pixel mod. I think Borti was working on a PCB for it last year. Not sure what came of it. The prototyping nature of the circuit has a ton of stacked components if you try to "float it" without a PCB. Results for those that tried it have been mixed.

Google just brings me back to your post, can you tell me more about this?

I may be making a few comparison photos for you guys since I have my RGB-modded Trinitron CRT and retro_console_accessories cables. My old SNES is an SHVC, and I've modded it for Component and it's giving me very sharp pixels on Component thus dodging the blurry RGB issue. I have a Snes Jr that gives me great RGB with the RetroRGB board, though I still need to add s-video to it (for convenience and luma sync). And my SFC is one of the S-RGB's, either 01 or 02, I will check later (that system is currently getting a retro bright).

[CkRtech]

It is a little insane as there is no PCB - so beware of stacked components. Run this through your translation of choice - http://vaot.mydns.jp/fc/sfc_sharp2.htm

[Sid]

Managed to buy a Super Famicom with serial S2502XXXX for a measly US$19 on ebay. It would most likely be a 1CHIP-02?

Really looking forward to checking it out once it arrives.