Shmupmame 4.2: Lagless Mars Matrix, Strikers 1945, Galaga 88

[bitkid]

On the subject of lag, does enabling "Triple Buffering" introduce any latency even on a powerful PC (fast CPU and video card)?

[nimitz]

Pulsewidth : vsync will *always* add at least one frame of lag, by definition even. The mechanism used is that instead of drawing the current (emulated) frame it waits until it's completed and draws it on the next frame.

A "perfect" triple buffer would not add lag, that being said in the real world it always does.


Both of these should always be turned off if you care about input delay.

P.S. Keep in mind this is regarding mame or other emulators.

[viniciusvbf]

Sorry for posting in this thread but the other one was locked.

Trying to play ketsui.

Got the Rom.

Started the exe and got a "pgm_t01s.rom missing" report.


Can anyone help?

Thanks.

PGM_t01s.rom can be found in the PGM bios.

I have the same problem, sorry for being so retarded, but where exactly can i find this?

[Udderdude]

Sorry for posting in this thread but the other one was locked.

Trying to play ketsui.

Got the Rom.

Started the exe and got a "pgm_t01s.rom missing" report.


Can anyone help?

Thanks.

PGM_t01s.rom can be found in the PGM bios.

I have the same problem, sorry for being so retarded, but where exactly can i find this?

You have to find pgm.zip, it's in there.

[viniciusvbf]

I already have pgm.zip in the roms dir

[bitkid]

Put the files from the PGM.zip into the Ket.zip ROM or the other game ROM zips.

[viniciusvbf]

oh fuck yes i'm playing ketsui
i love you guys and everyone involved in emulating this, thank you

[Obiwanshinobi]

I don't recall experiencing any screen tearing on MAME, but rather than v-sync or triple buffering, I recommend as high screen refresh rate as possible. I usually play on MAME with my CRT set to 100 Hz (800x600, Real_Scanlines, no bilinear filtering). I suppose screen tearing technically stil occurs, but it's barely perceptible (being proportionally "faster" than at 60 Hz).
If you insist on using 60 Hz, not only certain games might cause trouble (Namco oldies originally outputting ~60.6 Hz), but everything will be more prone to screen tearing (at least that's what I detected on certain emulators).
Some people may disagree, but I've yet to notice any shortcoming of refresh rates higher than 60 Hz (even in games running at no more than 60 fps).

[BPzeBanshee]

I love this release, dont get me wrong, but I notice the performance of Shmupmame has dropped significantly as a whole, Especially Battle Garegga and the toaplan2.c games. I used to be able to run Batrider at full speed with v2.0 and now its at 87% speed with v2.2. And Thunderforce AC still hasn't improved since the v99 pro build.
Is this because of the change to C++ in the default MAME build or something? I heard the change was causing extra "bloat" in filesize and this release certainly takes up more RAM usage than the previous release.

Thanks for that observation, I might revert the next version to 137 then. Mame is now using c++ (since ~138) which makes it slower.

For people who have problems with the new build, was Shmupmame v2.0 running without problems?

Zeron : sound problems are not completely fixed, that being said those "stuck" notes always end when a new sound is played on the same Oscillator.

Edit : also for those who have problems, try updating directx and your video card drivers, this may well be the problem.

Regarding the EXE still staying in the process, I think v2.0 may have been doing that as well but I can't be too certain. On this machine I tested it on now (where everything MAME related runs fullspeed) it kills the process but I think I saw it stay on the legacy machine when I was testing it side-by-side with v2.2.
One other thing I noticed (with later MAME versions in general): I cant seem to get it to detect Brave Blade (Japan). I rename the ZIP to brvbladej just as MAME says and it still doesn't see it. Havent had this problem with any other games.

Now regarding the toaplan2 games, I think emphatic posted a link at some stage about Haze or someone updating the driver to get Batsugun etc to work properly without hacks. I dont suppose there's a way to edit the driver so that Batsugun works without the issues it had while running Garegga the old-fashioned way is there?

Free Ketsui.... enjoy and celebrate.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTb_5oPqCys

Funny you should post that, Airwolf just aired on TV on 7mate on our new HDTV recently. Gotta be my favourite 80s show of all time, black jet helicopters whooping ass ftw.

[roker]

now that this has happened, who do I have to beg to fix batrider and bakraid?

[nimitz]

funny you mention that, I'm working on it right now.

[BPzeBanshee]

funny you mention that, I'm working on it right now.

Thanks nimitz.
I guess Thunder Force AC has no hope? It doesnt matter to me so much as Batrider but if it could be reverted as well it'd be a nice addition, though the v99 pro build is quite a while away from 0.140/137 in terms of rollback so I imagine it'd be difficult.

[captpain]

funny you mention that, I'm working on it right now.

Someone said that there was some weird like... time-travel stuff that would have to happen to make Batrider lagless, where you'd have to go back two frames or something. Is that true? Is there any way you can explain what you're doing to someone like myself ?

also please add a custom buttons feature

[TrevHead (TVR)]

now that this has happened, who do I have to beg to fix batrider and bakraid?

funny you mention that, I'm working on it right now.

Nimitz good sir you should have enough good karma coming your way that ild advice you to buy a weekly lottory ticket.
Either that or when you die you will go straight to heaven where youl be given your own harem

[roker]

funny you mention that, I'm working on it right now.

you're a legend.

[emphatic]

If you're playing a 59Hz game on a 60Hz display then you'll have to either duplicate [partial if vsync is off] frames or distort the audio. Duplicating frames is the default on most emulators and it looks terrible. Exactly how the audio distortion will sound depends on the details of your audio driver and audio buffering, but in my opinion it's always been much less annoying than the visual distortion. There's also the option of changing the audio sampling rate to match the incorrect speed, so the only distortion is the pitch/speed. Unless you have absolute pitch perception (perfect pitch) this will be completely unnoticeable, so it's the preferred option if you can't run the game at the correct speed.

I've noticed some tearing when I played. I have no other option than 60Hz though, as I'm running my computer through an UVC that will only accept 60Hz to my cabinet. While this tearing is of course annoying, it's not as noticeable than pushing the speed up to 60Hz (to me). If a speed-up game was a non-issue for me I might as well play the port instead.

Thanks for the explanation.

[Pulsewidth]

On the subject of lag, does enabling "Triple Buffering" introduce any latency even on a powerful PC (fast CPU and video card)?

Triple buffering always adds lag. I can't think of any way a "perfect" triple buffering could work without lag.

Some people may disagree, but I've yet to notice any shortcoming of refresh rates higher than 60 Hz (even in games running at no more than 60 fps).

You're probably American, so you're used to watching 3:2 pulldowned video. I personally find 24p content on a 60Hz display (both 60i and 60p) extremely annoying. 60p on a 85Hz display is the same problem. The original hardware ran at approximately 60p with each frame displayed in its entirety exactly once.

Pulsewidth : vsync will *always* add at least one frame of lag, by definition even. The mechanism used is that instead of drawing the current (emulated) frame it waits until it's completed and draws it on the next frame.

Wait until n milliseconds before the vertical retrace, poll input, calculate frame super-fast, draw to back buffer, hit the retrace, swap buffers. That's better than the original hardware, which still used vsync but had to skip the delay because it calculated the frame at slow speed. And if you're using black frame insertion you get even less lag because the time taken to scan the frame out is halved.

Maybe I need to draw some diagrams.

BTW, anyone know how often the old single-buffered "racing the beam" style systems (eg. Atari 2600) polled input? I strongly suspect it was only once per frame, which means they actually lagged more than my doubled-buffered black frame insertion + extra pre-input-polling delay setup does (ignoring input polling lag, which I'm working on fixing).

[bcass]

How are people finding the slowdown on these emulations compared to the PCBs?

[joeboto]

ive been comparing doj WL ps2 and mame. seems like no difference. try going thru no miss no bomb full chain usual hyper till 1-3 midboss (the pink with balls). theres a slowdown spot right before the midboss spawn (when the popcorn and big jet still alive). quite accurate i would say.

about the rank, WL seems okay. never had a chance to play BL PCB though.

[mjclark]

v2.2 isn't saving my options and rom audit if I close with file->exit but does save if I close by Xing the GUI window. Should I be worried?

[emphatic]

I'm pretty sure that the glitchy PGM graphics (mostly showing in ESPGALUDA) when you cancel lots of bullets, or when there's a huge amount of 5-chips on screen are missing from the emulation. Weirdly, I miss them.

[nimitz]

Pulsewidth, what you're describing could work for a non-emulated game running at the same speed as the display used...

If you wanna continue this discussion please do so in another thread or come see us on efnet #shmups.

[autumndrone]

nimitz, I was wondering if its possible to implement the CabMAME "CleanStretch" patch and bring back integer zoom to d3d? I've successfully compiled nonui mame for version 137 but unfortunately 140 diff patch is not available.

ddraw which is the only option atm results in fps drops when used with prescale x4 and scanlines effect in tate mode.

[captpain]

I'm pretty sure that the glitchy PGM graphics (mostly showing in ESPGALUDA) when you cancel lots of bullets, or when there's a huge amount of 5-chips on screen are missing from the emulation. Weirdly, I miss them.

What does it look like? There's glitching when you make lots of boxes right now in MAME, but I'm not sure if that's exactly what you're talking about.

[joeboto]

I'm pretty sure that the glitchy PGM graphics (mostly showing in ESPGALUDA) when you cancel lots of bullets, or when there's a huge amount of 5-chips on screen are missing from the emulation. Weirdly, I miss them.

What does it look like? There's glitching when you make lots of boxes right now in MAME, but I'm not sure if that's exactly what you're talking about.

its almost like when your tv is in static dot mode. i always got the glitchy graphics during DOJ WL PCB stage 2 boss, when he blows. most of the time.
i think theres video in youtube. lemme search.

edit : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WubJsaHFQB8
ddp doj BL, watch when the boss change forms.

[captpain]

Hmm, I don't know what I'm looking for so it's hard for me to see... that video's got some pretty harsh interlacing, too.

On another note, how sure are we that the rank is working properly? I just 1-ALLed DOJBL and I want to know if it "counts"

[emphatic]

Hmm, I don't know what I'm looking for so it's hard for me to see... that video's got some pretty harsh interlacing, too.

On another note, how sure are we that the rank is working properly? I just 1-ALLed DOJBL and I want to know if it "counts"

Is that a PS2 recording? The PS2 ports don't have the PGM glitch.

[captpain]

Hmm, I don't know what I'm looking for so it's hard for me to see... that video's got some pretty harsh interlacing, too.

On another note, how sure are we that the rank is working properly? I just 1-ALLed DOJBL and I want to know if it "counts"

Is that a PS2 recording? The PS2 ports don't have the PGM glitch.

It's gotta be the 360 version... BL didn't get ported to PS2.

[joeboto]

the vid i linked is from pcb of DDP DOJ BL, player is the legendary HFD. awesome skills indeed.

[emphatic]

Oops, sorry. Btw, it seems that the PGM glitch is near impossible to spot in the videos. I tried to find some nice ESPGALUDA runs, but everything is from PS2 that I manage to find.