6th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time! - Discussion thread

Post by **Shatterhand** » Mon May 12, 2008 2:52 pm

DEL wrote: If you're talking about the very final checkpoint before Nemesis/Gradius 1's Brain, then you're better informed than me. Like jp says, I never found a way to survive once I died there.

well

JoshF wrote:The laser wall thingy? Just stay at the very top and pass behind it.

That's it.

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Mon May 12, 2008 3:03 pm

I am better than DEL?

Post by **Shatterhand** » Mon May 12, 2008 3:35 pm

yeah, that's kinda weird

Zach Keene · Post by **Zach Keene** » Sat May 17, 2008 8:14 pm

Here's the obligatory semi-final list of games voted for. We still have a few ambiguous votes outstanding, so please check your PM box if you voted for Area 88/UN Sqaudron, Gradius III, or Salamander.

Code: Select all

1941
1942
1943
1943 (NES)
19XX: The War Against Destiny
Abadox
Aero Blaster
Aero Fighters II
Agony
Air Duel
Air Gallet
Air Zonk
Aldynes
Aleste 2
Aleste / Power Strike
Anaza Kaleidoscope Special
Andro Dunos
Android Assault
Apidya
Area 88
Argus
Ark Area
Armalyte
Armed Police Batrider
Ashura Blaster
ASO
ASO II: Last Guardian / Alpha Mission II
Asteroids
Asteroids Deluxe
Astro Flash
Axelay
Batsugun / Batsugun Special Version
Battle Bakraid
Battle Garegga
Battle Squadron
Beamrider
Biohazard Battle
Bio Metal
Black Heart
Blast Off
Blast Wind
Blazeon
Blazing Lazers / Gunhed
Blazing Star
Blue Wish Resurrection
Border Down
Borderline
Brave Blade
Break Thru
Bullet Hell (GBA)
Burai Fighter
B-WINGS
Carnival (Old Sega Arcade game)
Carrier Air Wing
Change Air Blade
Chaos Field
Chariot
Cho Ren Sha 68K
Choujikuu Yousai Macross: Scrambled Valkyrie
Chuuka Taisen (arcade)
Cotton 2
Cotton Boomerang
Curse
Cybattler
Cyvern
Daioh
Daisenpuu
Dangun Feveron
Darius / Darius Plus / Super Darius
Darius Gaiden
Darius II / Sagaia
Death Smiles
Defender
Detana Twinbee
Dimahoo / Great Mahou Daisakusen
Disposable Hero
Dodonpachi
Dodonpachi Daioujou
Dogyuun
Donpachi
Dragon Blaze
Dragon Breed
Dragon Saber
Dragon Spirit
Eden's Edge
Einhänder
Elemental Master
Eliminate Down
Embodiment of Scarlet Devil
ESPGaluda
ESPGaluda II
ESPRade
Ether Vapor
Everyday Shooter
Every Extend
Exed Exes / Savage Bees
Exzisus
Fantasy Zone
Final Justice
Fire Shark / Same! Same! Same!
Forgotten Worlds
Gaiares
Galaga
Galaga '88
Galaxian
Gallop
Game Tengoku
Gaplus
Gate of Thunder
G.Darius
Gekirindan
Geometry Wars: Galaxies
GG Aleste
Gigandes
Giga Wing
Giga Wing 2
Giga Wing Generations
Ginga Fukei Densetsu Sapphire
Gleylancer
Gokujyo Parodius
Gorf
Gradius 2 MSX / Nemesis '90 Kai
Gradius Gaiden
Gradius Galaxies/Generation/Advance
Gradius II: Gofer no Yabou / Vulcan Venture
Gradius III
Gradius III AC
Gradius III SNES
Gradius IV
Gradius / Nemesis
Gradius V
Gunbird
Gunbird 2
Gun Frontier
Gun Hohki / Mystic Riders
Gunnac
GunNail
Gun.Smoke
Guwange
Guxt
Gynoug / Wings of Wor
Gyruss
Harmful Park
Hecka Fresh
Hellfire
Hellsinker
Homura
Hybris
Hype
Hyper Duel
Ibara / Ibara Black Label
Ikaruga
Image Fight
Image Fight II
Imperishable Night
Insector X (arcade version)
In the Hunt
IO (C64)
Jets 'n' Guns
Jikkyou Oshaberi Parodius
Judgement Silversword
Kamui
Karous
Katakis (C64)
Katei Daisensou / In the Hunt
Ketsui
Last Duel
Last Hope
Last Resort
Le Soeur De Barrage
Lethal Xcess
Life Force (JPN ARC)
Lords of Thunder / Winds of Thunder
Lost Worlds
Lunaria
Magical Chase
Mahou Daisakusen / Sorcer Striker
Majestic 12 / Super Space Invaders '91
Major Stryker
Mars Matrix
Metal Black
Millipede
Moon Cresta
Mountain of Faith
Mr. Heli no Daibouken
Muchi Muchi Pork
Musha Aleste / M.U.S.H.A.
Mushihimesama
Mushihimesama Futari
Mutant Storm Empire
Nebulas Ray
Nemesis 3
Nemesis (GB)
Nemesis II (Game Boy)
Nexzr
Noboranka
Nomltest
Omega Fighter
Over Horizon
P-47 Aces
Parodius Da!
Perfect Cherry Blossom
Phelios
Philosoma
Pink Sweets
Pistol Daimyo no Bouken
Plus Alpha
Pop 'n Twinbee
Power Strike II (SMS)
Progear no Arashi
Project X
Psyche Metal: The Bleeding
Psyvariar 2
Psyvariar / Psyvariar Revision
Pulstar
Radiant Silvergun
Radical Radial
Radilgy
Raiden
Raiden DX
Raiden Fighters
Raiden Fighters 2
Raiden Fighters Jet
Raiden II
Raiden III
Rally Raid
Rapid Hero
Raptor: Call of the Shadows (PC)
RayCrisis
RayForce / Layer Section / Galactic Attack / Gunlock:  3.665762 30.000000  1.200628
RayStorm
Recca
Return of the Invaders
Robo Aleste
Robotron 2084
rRootage
R-Type
R-Type Delta
R-Type Final
R-Type II
R-Type III: The Third Lightning
R-Type Leo
Saint Dragon (Amiga)
Salamander
Salamander 2
Salamander (ARC) / Salamander (PCE)
Salamander (FC) / Life Force (NES)
Salamander (MSX)
Samidare
Sanvein
Sasuke vs. Commander
Scion
Scooter Shooter
Scramble
Seaquest
Seek and Destroy - Demolition Gunner Remix
Seirei Senshi Spriggan
Sengoku Blade / Tengai
Sexy Parodius
Shienryu / Gekioh: Shooting King
Shikigami no Shiro
Shikigami no Shiro 2 / Castle Shikigami 2
Shikigami no Shiro 3
Shippu Mahou Daisakusen / Kingdom Grandprix
Shoot the Bullet
Side Arms
Silpheed
Silpheed: The Lost Planet
Sky Adventure
Sky Shark / Flying Shark / Hishouzame
Slap Fight
Solar Striker
Soldier Blade
Sonic Boom
Sonic Sisters
Sonic Wings
Sonic Wings Special
Soukyugurentai
Space Bomber
Space Giraffe
Space Invaders
Space Invaders Extreme
Space Invaders II
Space Manbow
Spriggan Powered
Star Force
Stargate / Defender 2
Star Parodier
Star Soldier (Gamecube/PS2 version)
Steam Hearts
Steel Empire
Steel Saviour
Storm Blade
Strikers 1945
Strikers 1945 II
Strikers 1945 III / Strikers 1999
Strikers 1945 Plus
Super Aleste / Space Megaforce
Super Laydock
Super R-Type
Super Space Fortress Macross 2
Super Stardust HD
Super Star Soldier
SWAT (ARC: Sega/ Coreland '84)
SWIV (Super Famicom)
Sylphia
Tails Gear
Tempest
Tempest 2000
Tempest X3
Terra Cresta
Terra Force
The Guardian Legend
Thunder Dragon II
Thunderforce AC
Thunderforce III
Thunderforce IV / Lightening Force
Thunderforce V
Time Pilot
Toilet Kids
Torus Trooper
Total voters: 89 (scaled: 89.000000)
Triggerheart Exelica
Trizeal
Truxton 2 / Tatsujin Ou
Truxton / Tatsujin
Tumiki Fighters
Twinbee
Twinbee Da!!
Twinbee: Yahhoo!!
Twin Cobra II / Kyukyoku Tiger II
Twin Cobra / Kyukyoku Tiger
Twinkle Star Sprites
Twinkle Star Sprites: La Petite Princesse
Twin Seeds
Tyrian
Undead Lines (X68000)
Under Defeat
UN Squadron / Area 88 (ARC)
Uridium II
Vanguard
Vapor Trail
Varth
Vasara
Vasara 2
V-Five
Viewpoint
Viper Phase 1
Vulgus
Warning Forever
Wings of Death
Wings Of Wor / Gynoug
Wonder Planet
Xenon
Xenon 2
Xevious
Xevious: Fardraut Densetsu
Xexex
XII Stag
X-Multiply
XX Mission
Zanac (MSX)
Zanac Neo
Zanac (NES) / Zanac EX
Zen-Ichi
Zero Gunner 2
Zero Wing
Z-Out

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Sat May 17, 2008 9:57 pm

I don't understand why you guys split the votes on Gradius 3.

In the end its the same game. and the game doesn't have much votes as it it, why make it worse.

NES (or 8 bit) ports I can understand since a game like salamaner is pretty different on the nes.

Fenrir · Post by **Fenrir** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:12 pm

Dunno who did it but kudos for those who voted for Philosoma.
No Novastorm love = end of an era

JoshF · Post by **JoshF** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:19 pm

People who voted for Gradius III should be more concerned with their game showing up on the list. No split.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sat May 17, 2008 10:45 pm

Fenrir wrote:Dunno who did it but kudos for those who voted for Philosoma.
No Novastorm love = end of an era

Technically even Philosoma has some non-shmups bits, but heh, it's still 90% shmup.

Novastorm is out, come on.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Sat May 17, 2008 11:09 pm

nimitz wrote:I don't understand why you guys split the votes on Gradius 3.

In the end its the same game. and the game doesn't have much votes as it it, why make it worse.

No it's not, some of the stages are totally different.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sat May 17, 2008 11:25 pm

CIT wrote:
nimitz wrote:I don't understand why you guys split the votes on Gradius 3.

In the end its the same game. and the game doesn't have much votes as it it, why make it worse.
No it's not, some of the stages are totally different.

Difficulty and weapon selection, that's what really keep them apart. Split is justified.

nimitz · Post by **nimitz** » Sun May 18, 2008 12:00 am

Then why not do the same on Parodius DA and Gokujou parodius on the snes and the saturn and snes verson of Jikkyou parodious too. and most ports of konami shmups.

also the different ports of R-type and twin cobra.

and the PS2 versions of gunbird 2 and dragon blaze, since they are easier.

the DC version of Gunbird 2 since it has morrigan

the DC version of mars matrix and border down because of arrange mode

also Darius and Darius plus seems to considered be only 1 game...

I say for the sake of simplicity when games share the EXACT SAME NAME. they should be considered only one game.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sun May 18, 2008 12:24 am

Somewhere a line must be drawn - that line passes exactly between the examples you mentioned and the case in question. Those are minor things, this is a heavy reworking of the original. It's common sense.

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Sun May 18, 2008 10:26 am

Zach Keene wrote:Here's the obligatory semi-final list of games voted for.

Thanks a ton. That list seems pretty comprehensive. A couple of games are on the list twice, though, because they only differ in name:
ASO II: Last Guardian and Alpha Mission II
Sengoku Ace Episode II and Sengoku Blade
Katei Daisensou and In The Hunt
Area 88 and UN Squadron

Also, is there really a game called "Dragon Blade"? I think it might just be a typo of Dragon Blaze.
And is there really a game called "Twinbee Da"? I'm not too familiar with the series.

Zach Keene wrote:We still have a few ambiguous votes outstanding, so please check your PM box if you voted for Area 88/UN Sqaudron, Gradius III, or Salamander.

I cannot stress this enough. Please check your PMs and/or emails for requests for clarification. If the remaining ambiguuous votes aren't clarified soon-ish, we'll assume that the votes for the games in question go to the original arcade versions.

CIT · Post by **CIT** » Sun May 18, 2008 10:54 am

Herr Schatten wrote:And is there really a game called "Twinbee Da"?

Yeah, it's on Game Boy.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sun May 18, 2008 11:38 am

That means 366 games got at least one vote.

A good thirty more than the fourth annual which held the record (336).

I like when people's taste gets sophisticated enough to list more and more games.

edit: 365: I see a "Gradius III - Gradius III AC - Gradius III SNES" Clearly there's one too many.

Acid King · Post by **Acid King** » Sun May 18, 2008 11:50 am

So why are Batsugun and Batsugun Special mashed up?

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Sun May 18, 2008 1:36 pm

Turrican wrote:I see a "Gradius III - Gradius III AC - Gradius III SNES" Clearly there's one too many.

The one without a system mentioned is one of the ambiguous votes left. It will disappear as soon as the user clarifies his vote.

Acid King wrote:So why are Batsugun and Batsugun Special mashed up?

Incognoscente explained it well when we were discussing this issue in the mod forum. I hope he doesn't mind me posting this:

incognoscente wrote:Zach counted them as one because they are alike in more ways than they are different.

(Palette shift doesn't really matter. The remaining changes are: 4 loops, 3 more pig batteries, 2 new types of hidden bonus, and a smaller hitbox. Levels, bosses, bullet patterns, etc. remain unchanged.)

Fenrir · Post by **Fenrir** » Sun May 18, 2008 2:09 pm

Turrican wrote:
Fenrir wrote:Dunno who did it but kudos for those who voted for Philosoma.
No Novastorm love = end of an era
Technically even Philosoma has some non-shmups bits, but heh, it's still 90% shmup.

Novastorm is out, come on.

LEAVE NOVASTORM ALONE!!!!

As for Philosoma, my kudos were dead serious. I love that game but I had too many games to put ahead of it.

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Sun May 18, 2008 3:16 pm

Raiden III Double Mode plays nothing like Raiden III Solo Mode: Any reason why they are not separated?

... Solo Mode is no where near my second favourite vote!

Zach Keene · Post by **Zach Keene** » Sun May 18, 2008 4:34 pm

Herr Schatten wrote:ASO II: Last Guardian and Alpha Mission II
Sengoku Ace Episode II and Sengoku Blade
Katei Daisensou and In The Hunt
Area 88 and UN Squadron

The "Area 88" vote is like the "Gradius III" vote (or the "Salamander" vote): left there until it gets clarified. The others are oversights and I'll fix them shortly.

Also, is there really a game called "Dragon Blade"? I think it might just be a typo of Dragon Blaze.

Apparently, yes, though it doesn't remotely appear to be a shump. I'll count it as Dragon Blaze vote.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sun May 18, 2008 4:43 pm

j^aws wrote:Raiden III Double Mode plays nothing like Raiden III Solo Mode: Any reason why they are not separated?

... Solo Mode is no where near my second favourite vote!

It's the top 25 shmups of all time, not the top 25 shmups modes of all times.

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Sun May 18, 2008 4:52 pm

^^ My question was directed at the organisers...

My vote was not for the Solo Mode; Double Mode is practically a sub-genre...

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sun May 18, 2008 5:12 pm

j^aws wrote:^^ My question was directed at the organisers...

My vote was not for the Solo Mode; Double Mode is practically a sub-genre...

Well, hope you don't lose your sleep if someone else writes a reply - next time you want it so private try a pm.

I don't question the sub-genre. It only means than when voting Raiden III you'll take into account this sub-genre of yours.

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Sun May 18, 2008 5:20 pm

Turrican wrote:
j^aws wrote:^^ My question was directed at the organisers...

My vote was not for the Solo Mode; Double Mode is practically a sub-genre...
Well, hope you don't lose your sleep if someone else writes a reply - next time you want it so private try a pm.
...

Off-Topic: Actually I'd prefer an ignore function, because you and a few others are on it. Just FYI.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sun May 18, 2008 5:31 pm

j^aws wrote:Off-Topic: Actually I'd prefer an ignore function, because you and a few others are on it. Just FYI.

I'll try not to cry in despair.

The Coop · Post by **The Coop** » Sun May 18, 2008 5:35 pm

You can almost feel the camaraderie.

Turrican · Post by **Turrican** » Sun May 18, 2008 10:24 pm

Looking at that list- whoa, I can't believe no one voted that game...

Mmm, this surely will affect my vote next year.

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Mon May 19, 2008 6:28 am

j^aws wrote:Raiden III Double Mode plays nothing like Raiden III Solo Mode: Any reason why they are not separated?

Turrican hit the nail on the head:

Turrican wrote:It's the top 25 shmups of all time, not the top 25 shmups modes of all times.

We don't vote for single modes in Mushihimesama either.

j^aws · Post by **j^aws** » Mon May 19, 2008 9:10 am

Herr Schatten wrote: ...
We don't vote for single modes in Mushihimesama either.

... Ibara Arrange Mode was voted for last year as a single vote?

Ibara Arranged (PS2) : 0.196369 1.000000 0.058480

http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 561#236561

Herr Schatten · Post by **Herr Schatten** » Mon May 19, 2008 9:25 am

j^aws wrote:Ibara Arrange Mode was voted for last year as a single vote?

A mistake, obviously. These happen, you know?

6th Annual Top 25 Shmups of All Time! - Discussion thread

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