Whatever happened to the Ketsui Dump?

[roker]

Once niggas get in-game it's over.

niggas is crazy.

[ケツイ]

not too sure what the politics are between FBA and MAME

MAME has GURU.

Fixed

[Udderdude]

End of an era.

But it's not like it would have stopped me from buying the 360 port.

[austere]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YqtLgfQxSU

Better than X mode.

[Evrain]

not too sure what the politics are between FBA and MAME

MAME has GURU.

FBA has XingXing
Fixed

Double-fix'd

Uh wait, is that a video of Ketsui running? With the enemy movement and shooting patterns inverted? Damn, now I'm sold.

[THE]

Well, they haven't cracked the protection at all. Without a dump of the ARM7 it never will work.
They just hacked it to pass protection checks. But the bullet physic and stuff is done in the ARM7.

No ARM7 dump -> no playable game.

Knowing the relation between Guru and FBA, they won't get this dump anytime soon...

But it's nice to do sprite rips anyway, even though the sprites don't look quite good...

[Evrain]

Well, they haven't cracked the protection at all. Without a dump of the ARM7 it never will work.
They just hacked it to pass protection checks. But the bullet physic and stuff is done in the ARM7.

No ARM7 dump -> no playable game.

Knowing the relation between Guru and FBA, they won't get this dump anytime soon...

But it's nice to do sprite rips anyway, even though the sprites don't look quite good...

Guru isn't really the only one who has access to decapping, there are countless other options - the only problem being the Benjamins. AND if the board is being sent back to pixelcorps.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

I bet the PCB gets accidently lost in the post

Jokes aside isnt that PCB of no use to anyone since GURU destroyed the encripted chip in the decapping process?

[austere]

TrevHead,

Guru has not de-encapsulated the Ketsui ARM7 chip. Futhermore, you can still use a chip that has been de-encapsulated as long as it has been handled correctly. What guru has done was simply to dump the ROMs on the board. He's good at what he does so the board should still be completely functional. It's only when you go as far as de-layering a chip that it is destroyed in the process. That costs a significant amount of money though (around $10,000 for a proper job -- and they will ask for 3 to 5 samples of each chip). Hopefully we won't need that for the Seibu custom chips, lol.

No ARM7 dump -> no playable game.

Not necessarily. ^^ iq_132 is "blackboxing" the protection and so far the results are quite remarkable.

http://neosource.1emu.net/forums/index. ... 5#msg11765

[THE]

Not necessarily. ^^ iq_132 is "blackboxing" the protection and so far the results are quite remarkable.
http://neosource.1emu.net/forums/index. ... 5#msg11765

Hmm, after reading the thread I come to the conclusion that Cave did a pretty bad job then with the ARM7...
Not much wondering about that, the SH-3 protection is no the best either. There main goal was probably anti bootleg protection and not anti emulation protection.

[RetroRepair]

Unreal. I knew that ARM7 was useless.

I'd wager DOJ comes next.

[moozooh]

I played DOJ on PCSX2 back in early 2009, it's working just fine and you get all the extras while at it.

[Zeron]

I played DOJ on PCSX2 back in early 2009, it's working just fine and you get all the extras while at it.

I heard it suffers from terrible input lag.

[moozooh]

The input lag is indeed present and very noticeable (I'd say around 2-3 frames more than DDP loaded into ShmupMAME), but I believe that has something to do with the video plugin architecture and the emulator being still early in its development in general. I wouldn't count on emulated Ketsui being perfect in that regard, especially with all the hackery going on there and FBA not being the most responsive emulator either.

[Zeether]

Maybe we can get nimitz to work on lagless FBA!

[gameoverDude]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YqtLgfQxSU

Better than X mode.

WOW. Never thought I'd see that. The worst that could happen is Cave telling the team to keep that particular FBA driver to theirselves.
Anyway: Austere said that 360 Ketsui will not be reprinted. Like moozooh has pointed out, MAME has helped drum up some interest in Cave. I could see Cave doing a PSP port of Ketsui, but maybe with downgraded animation/color (PSP having 32 MB RAM which IIRC is same as PS2).

I'm still interested- after all, you can't easily take your Ketsui PCB with you on a vacation- and that's where Dingoo can come in. I own the PCB and bought the 360 port for its X mode. Emulated versions won't necessarily stop people from buying an officially released port- look at Namco Museum and all its incarnations to this day.

[Evrain]

Well you can argue the point all you want.

Cave disagree, publishers disagree.

Cave do not want to see this emulated, they've made that very clear.

I'd rather not see some war started between Cave and 'emulation' because you know who has the most money to fight it.

MAME doesn't want to risk it, because really, we're pro-arcade and friendly towards the companies who produce these games. If the FBA team have a different attitude towards this, so be it, but I just want on record that no member of the MAME team, nor myself support these efforts.

I strongly suggest attempts to emulate it are dropped and people buy the ports instead.

Then may I politely suggest to Haze to also tell Luca to delete the SH3 driver and Guru to destroy the DeathSmiles and ESPgaluda II partial romsets? (/sarcasm)

Just what is really going on with Cave and emulation? It's just us unaware of what was in the C&D letter from Cave or Haze having an acute case of "oh snap, they emulated Ketsui!"?

[BulletMagnet]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YqtLgfQxSU

Better than X mode.

Exclusive new weapon: the propeller-rang!

[clp]

Why do i get the feeling Haze will end up tipping cave off about this?

[drunkninja24]

Why do i get the feeling Haze will end up tipping cave off about this?

Even if he does, what could Cave possibly do?

[cstle]

Why do i get the feeling Haze will end up tipping cave off about this?

Even if he does, what could Cave possibly do?

Everyone involved in the project will be prosecutedt to the full extent of the jam, obviously.

[Kaiser]

Why do i get the feeling Haze will end up tipping cave off about this?

Even if he does, what could Cave possibly do?

Everyone involved in the project will be prosecutedt to the full extent of the jam, obviously.

Yeah and they'll get scared before that (talking about mamedev) because they lack balls. I would scared in their place ONLY if I lived in japan. Nonetheless.

[ケツイ]

Haze have to STFU because they have emulated Esp Galuda 2 and Deathsmiles!
According to their policy that drivers should not exist!

[clp]

Yeh i agree Haze needs to stfu hes said his bit but continues to go on ? why does he care what FBA does its nothing to do with him at all .

[emphatic]

its nothing to do with him at all .

He's an emulator dev. That's how he "fits" in this puzzle.

[ケツイ]

its nothing to do with him at all .

He's an emulator dev. That's how he "fits" in this puzzle.

It's a MAME Dev not a FBA Dev

[RetroRepair]

If MAME can't do it, they sure don't want someone else doing it.

DOJ was added to and removed from MAME about the time Arika were porting Ketsui to the PS2. ARKIKA contacted MAMEdev (so goes the legend) and asked them politely to remove it. They did.

It's almost 2011 now.

Anyway, seems Haze stomping his feet has got him what he wanted. iq does seem to have succeeded in proving however that everything MAMEdev have said about the Cave PGM boards is bullshit.

[Veran]

If MAME can't do it, they sure don't want someone else doing it.

DOJ was added to and removed from MAME about the time Arika were porting Ketsui to the PS2. ARKIKA contacted MAMEdev (so goes the legend) and asked them politely to remove it. They did.

It's almost 2011 now.

Anyway, seems Haze stomping his feet has got him what he wanted. iq does seem to have succeeded in proving however that everything MAMEdev have said about the Cave PGM boards is bullshit.

WTF. The fact that it was removed means there IS a dump out there somewhere. If I didn't have a copy for PS2 I'd be scouring the seedier parts of the internet right now.

[Evrain]

If MAME can't do it, they sure don't want someone else doing it.

DOJ was added to and removed from MAME about the time Arika were porting Ketsui to the PS2. ARKIKA contacted MAMEdev (so goes the legend) and asked them politely to remove it. They did.

It's almost 2011 now.

*cough cough* dump needed from someone whose nickname doesn't involve spirituality *cough cough*

Anyway, seems Haze stomping his feet has got him what he wanted.

That's the unbelievable point: he seems to always have been, along with Belmont, one of the most level-headed devs, I would have never expected such an ingerence from him, unless there's something we don't know. Sure thing, though, FBA owes quite a lot of code to MAME, hence why Haze can try to stop them as he pleases, which is the insanely unnerving part. So let me guess, now I spring up, code a custom emulator for PGM and I have to hear someone else tell me that he "strongly suggest all work is stopped"? Hmpf.

iq does seem to have succeeded in proving however that everything MAMEdev have said about the Cave PGM boards is bullshit.

Damn sure a few devs, and Guru himself, must be pissed off like hyenas right now. However, what they said about the Cave PGM games is in fact true, and IQ demonstrated it with Ketsui - the only "bullshit" part is the alleged lawsuit or C&D letter from Cave, which I believe to be a fake or, at least, rather a letter from Arika.
Which they ignored seeing how Tetris TGM is there

Oh well, for now it's game over.

@Veran: I know of a partial dump (which if I'm not mistaken was of Black Label) and of course Guru's dump

[RetroRepair]

@Veran: I know of a partial dump (which if I'm not mistaken was of Black Label) and of course Guru's dump

It was only the boot and program ROMs and they were just regular DOJ.

The bullshit part IMHO was they said the ARM7 dump was required which is not the case as iq has prooved. With this info at hand I'd recon Bee Storm could get further now too, though I suspect MAMEdev knew that all along and did nothing to try and keep the illusion up that it was impossible.