OSSC (DIY video digitizer & scandoubler)

[NormalFish]

If by "no 240p/480i switching problems" you're expecting instant switching between 240p and 480i, you might be disappointed. This is greatly dependent upon the display in my experience.

[eric90000]

For those of you who can use all of the line modes (x3/x4/x5), which mode do you prefer the look of? Do you use different modes for different applications... I'm trying to decide if I prefer the softer scanline look of Line x2/x3 on a PS1. 1080p Line x5 is really emulator sharp with much thinner scanlines, which I think suits 8/16 bit consoles pretty well.

My living room TV handles all modes on the OSSC, but I have a smaller Sony in the man cave that only does Line x2. 480p on the Sony actually looks pretty good... just trying to decide if it's stupid to sacrifice the Line x3/x4/x5 modes by switching TV's.

[NormalFish]

For those of you who can use all of the line modes (x3/x4/x5), which mode do you prefer the look of? Do you use different modes for different applications... I'm trying to decide if I prefer the softer scanline look of Line x2/x3 on a PS1. 1080p Line x5 is really emulator sharp with much thinner scanlines, which I think suits 8/16 bit consoles pretty well.

My living room TV handles all modes on the OSSC, but I have a smaller Sony in the man cave that only does Line x2. 480p on the Sony actually looks pretty good... just trying to decide if it's stupid to sacrifice the Line x3/x4/x5 modes by switching TV's.

I use 4x with my PS1. Think it's the best balance of softness.

[Galdelico]

If by "no 240p/480i switching problems" you're expecting instant switching between 240p and 480i, you might be disappointed. This is greatly dependent upon the display in my experience.

Is 'instant'/seamless switching even possible? On my two monitors, I'd say the delay (although extremely short) is pretty much the same. In my case, the only difference is that, on the Asus, resolution changes bring up the AV channel/port on screen each time, whereas they do not, on the LG.

For those of you who can use all of the line modes (x3/x4/x5), which mode do you prefer the look of? Do you use different modes for different applications... I'm trying to decide if I prefer the softer scanline look of Line x2/x3 on a PS1. 1080p Line x5 is really emulator sharp with much thinner scanlines, which I think suits 8/16 bit consoles pretty well.

My living room TV handles all modes on the OSSC, but I have a smaller Sony in the man cave that only does Line x2. 480p on the Sony actually looks pretty good... just trying to decide if it's stupid to sacrifice the Line x3/x4/x5 modes by switching TV's.

I've been on the fence as well for quite a while. Ultimately, I believe it greatly depends on your display.

On my older Asus VW246H (TN, 24" and 1080p) - once I calibrated it again, looking back at Prad's suggestions - I decided to keep LineX3, with scanlines set to 50% for 240p sources, and the same post-processing values for interlaced contents as well (personal preference, here, but I wanted the OSSC for its ability to preserve a distinct analog/CRT feel with all the retro consoles I own, plus I'm not a fan of razor-sharp, emulator-like IQ in general).

On my newer LG 27MU67 (IPS, 27" and 4K) - even though I experienced temporary image retention and flicker persistence, with bob deinterlaced 480i sources - I used LineX4 and scanlines set to 100% with 240p. That gave me a beautiful, almost BVM-like picture. Then again, I've always preferred the dimmer output of CRT pro monitors, compared to the brighter, more saturated results you normally get on TVs.

The only thing I noticed (this may also differ from what you experience on your setup), is that LineX2 and LineX4 produce a faint (barely noticeable with LineX4), vertical moire effect on checkerboard surfaces:

Spoiler

on the rectangles behind Sakura's and Ryu's portraits, for example

LineX3 and LineX5 don't do that at all.

[ZellSF]

For those of you who can use all of the line modes (x3/x4/x5), which mode do you prefer the look of? Do you use different modes for different applications... I'm trying to decide if I prefer the softer scanline look of Line x2/x3 on a PS1. 1080p Line x5 is really emulator sharp with much thinner scanlines, which I think suits 8/16 bit consoles pretty well.

My living room TV handles all modes on the OSSC, but I have a smaller Sony in the man cave that only does Line x2. 480p on the Sony actually looks pretty good... just trying to decide if it's stupid to sacrifice the Line x3/x4/x5 modes by switching TV's.

I can't use x4, but I prefer my pixels to be as big and sharp as possible, so I would definitely prefer 5x anyway.

For OSSC vs XRGB-mini, it really depends on your display. With my current display, I would prefer the XRGB-mini. With a display that supports all the OSSC's weird output modes, I would prefer the OSSC. Of course there's also other video processors you can use after the OSSC.

Is 'instant'/seamless switching even possible?

I think the DVDO VP50 can do the switch in about 1 second. If that 1 second was a black screen (and not a blue screen with moving bars) I would call that pretty seamless. Definitely possible if you get the right display.

Not so sure about instant, since I haven't actually verified that the OSSC itself can switch instantly (since I have no output device can do that), but I believe marqs has said it does so I don't see why that would be impossible on a fast PC monitor.

[Galdelico]

I think the DVDO VP50 can do the switch in about 1 second. If that 1 second was a black screen (and not a blue screen with moving bars) I would call that pretty seamless. Definitely possible if you get the right display.

Not so sure about instant, since I haven't actually verified that the OSSC itself can switch instantly (since I have no output device can do that), but I believe marqs has said it does so I don't see why that would be impossible on a fast PC monitor.

Didn't mean to contradict marqs himself, I was just wondering, according to my personal experience. ^_-
I didn't measure the time properly, but I'd say it's slightly more than one second on my displays. With games that don't load on black screens in between 240p/480i changes - Dead or Alive on the Saturn, for example - I can tell the re-sync very briefly covers up some action. That said, I find it pretty much negligible.

I may dig into the rabbit hole of video processors, eventually, but for now I'm ok with the simple 'OSSC connected straight up to a PC monitor' solution.

[Zappyraccoon]

I just purchased a Toshiba 55L421U. All modes work wonderfully, however I get pixel perfect results when I use 240p x4 @320x240 opt. I also had to up the sync settings (forgot which off hand) to get rid of some pixel flicker. But after that displaying the image in game mode at the dot by dot setting it looks emulator crisp. I took a picture with my phone but it looks like poop compared to the real thing. I'd still like to have better ratio control than my television provides as well as not have it display the input info whenever resolution changes (it's ~1s wait with a black screen though which isn't bad). I'm on the hunt for an ever elusive Crystalio II though. Hopefully find one in the next year or two haha.

[Hoagtech]

Does anyone know the best option for analog vga output from this device. Is there a simple digital to analog converter I could use?

I would like to hook it up to my crt monitor but it supports analog vga on its rgb2 input

[citrus3000psi]

Does anyone know the best option for analog vga output from this device. Is there a simple digital to analog converter I could use?

I would like to hook it up to my crt monitor but it supports analog vga on its rgb2 input

I don't know what the best option is. I haven't passed my OSSC through my VP50Pro yet. But I have ran my HDMI N64 > VP50pro > PDP-V402 and it works well.

[Xer Xian]

I have a Gefen DVI to VGA converter. I've tested it with the OSSC up to 3x240p (still waiting for a damn 2GB microsd to update the firmware) and it's fine, but it should accept 5x too as it supports up to 1920x1200@60hz. Then again, most of the little boxes that go for a tenner do the same, but with unknown fidelity. I've bought one of these cheapos off Amazon too and will be able to compare them shortly.

[ShadowofBob]

Does anyone know the best option for analog vga output from this device. Is there a simple digital to analog converter I could use?

I would like to hook it up to my crt monitor but it supports analog vga on its rgb2 input

I have this:
https://www.amazon.com/gofanco-Pro-DVI- ... B00RWFT8NG

Works great without the need for external power and is able to handle all multiplier scaling modes. 1600x1200 in 5x looks fantastic on my 21" Trinitron P1130 monitor. I haven't found any issues with it yet.

[Hoagtech]

Does anyone know the best option for analog vga output from this device. Is there a simple digital to analog converter I could use?

I would like to hook it up to my crt monitor but it supports analog vga on its rgb2 input

I have this:
https://www.amazon.com/gofanco-Pro-DVI- ... B00RWFT8NG

Works great without the need for external power and is able to handle all multiplier scaling modes. 1600x1200 in 5x looks fantastic on my 21" Trinitron P1130 monitor. I haven't found any issues with it yet.

Thanks for that.

I'll give this cheap cable a try

I hope it works.

[krealian]

I may have missed it but didn't see anything about the wiki page: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php/OSSC

The contents seem to be missing. Did something happen or did the address change?

[Harrumph]

Looks like Artemio has refurbished the frontpage of junkerhq.net, maybe he broke the wiki links in the process.

Btw, I posted the optimized modes for GBI on vgp forums, if anyone's interested.

[BuckoA51]

I've broken that wiki a few times, Artemio keeps backups so hopefully it'll be back.. hopefully.

The next batch of OSSCs have landed! Sadly...power supplies have been delayed I'll be starting to trickle out some invites using the stock I still have. The current order number I'm serving will be announced on Facebook, Twitter, Telegram and Tumblr.

[Galdelico]

The source file (updated to the latest firmware) is still there, though: http://junkerhq.net/xrgb/index.php?title=OSSC&action=edit

[BuckoA51]

You're right, well that at least that means there's nothing really lost. I'll drop Artemio an e-mail.

I need to update Pronto remote codes and TV compatibility table when I get time too.. so much to do.

Update - Artemio says he'll look into it when he can.

[Hoagtech]

Does anyone think that maybe this guys inventor model isn't outside of digital form yet?

We're fighting over implications of a man who has 4 posts total and no working or evidence of a physical prototype?

I don't even know if this man has a working prototype and implications of ethics are flying all over the place.

I can't say what a staked investor could feel about this situation (bucks) but I do like the idea of our converters getting better. But that is hard to do in a business environment.

One thing I struggle with my business is using my opportunities of friendly competition. There are ways

[Galdelico]

Kinda OT, now, but I thought to report this as an update to my situation, as it's still related to how one can fully enjoy the OSSC on a 4K IPS monitor.

Basically, the issue I had with after-flickering and image retention with interlaced (bob-deinterlaced) sources on my LG 27MU67 seems to be fixed.
I changed one option (on the monitor itself) that I didn't even consider in the first place, because I thought it was tied to 4K contents exclusively: HDMI ULTRA HD Deep Color. Now that is set to 'on', everything seems improved... Refresh rate (upped to 59.94 and 60.00hz according to the manual), stabilty and even scrolling (that now appears to be perfectly smooth, with basically no ghosting, even with overdrive set to 'off'). After 45 minutes of continuous play with Saturn Virtua Fighter 2, there's no lifebars' burn-in, nor flickering areas on white backgrounds.

I'll keep testing, of course, and report back in case.

In the meantime, thanks again to Xyga for the massive amount of patience and help!

Oh by the way I forgot to tell you that it's usually better to let the overdrive ON, typically on the first step, which is where the best balance is found.
If you let it OFF the panel will only show you its slowest pixel response, losing the benefit of using a monitor instead of a TV.

Gotcha. Thanks again. ^_-

[Xyga]

Oh by the way I forgot to tell you that it's usually better to let the overdrive ON, typically on the first step, which is where the best balance is found.
If you let it OFF the panel will only show you its slowest pixel response, losing the benefit of using a monitor instead of a TV.

[CobraKing]

Does anyone think that maybe this guys inventor model isn't outside of digital form yet?

We're fighting over implications of a man who has 4 posts total and no working or evidence of a physical prototype?

I don't even know if this man has a working prototype and implications of ethics are flying all over the place.

I can't say what a staked investor could feel about this situation (bucks) but I do like the idea of our converters getting better. But that is hard to do in a business environment.

One thing I struggle with my business is using my opportunities of friendly competition. There are ways

I'm trying to understand the logic of some of the people attacking BuckoA51 in that thread. They don't have the current OSSC and they complain about the lack of availability and ordering system yet they want new hardware with revisions. The latter reason is probably why BuckoA51 orders small batches to begin with. If you don't have the surplus capital laying about nor do you want to take the risk to buy massive lots of devices that could potentially be outdated then I can understand his thinking. I think it's great that there's an enhancement to the OSSC in the works and I look forward to it, but I'm not going to slam the existing device and distribution model.

Seems like a bunch of people just making noise but no one actually willing to take the time and effort to get the OSSC to the masses.

[Pasky]

Seems like a bunch of people just making noise but no one actually willing to take the time and effort to get the OSSC to the masses.

That's because you seem to be unable to identify the fact that no one else could have done it as easily. Before this was released (I'm assuming) Bucko approached Marqs about manufacturing the OSSC for sale, he was the only one who had that sort of instant access to produce the boards. It wasn't until much later that Marqs was giving the gerber files to those who asked him privately for them and he did so because he knew Bucko invested into this and did not feel well releasing it due to his investment.

Finding information on where to purchase one was bothersome. Moving the support over to Bucko's own forum was bothersome.

I'm convinced this is the case as Bucko's stupid comments about his fear of a "Cheap Chinese clone" in the OSSC wolf thread. He wasn't afraid of a cheap Chinese clone because he himself gets them manufactured there, he knew if the Chinese wanted to make this they could best him in pricing and supply because economies of scales, as the Chinese are very good at producing small products like this efficiently.

His silly claims that poor clones would be made and tech supporting for them are laughable, considering this is an open source project there is no requirement for him to provide support if someone else wanted to manufacture it. He also said he tested all of the units he built yet people in this thread alone there have been people with issues from boards he produced and I believe have asked them to send them back to him. If you've bought the Chinese made SD2SNES you'll find they are of the same quality that Krikkz produces. It's just excuses.

Anyone wanting to make their own was unable to do so. I even asked Marqs very close to the beginning of the release of this and he answered there that he would feel guilty doing so due to Bucko's investment if you want to bother to look.

You should grasp the situation before replying with incorrect assumptions.

[Harrumph]

Moving the support over to Bucko's own forum was bothersome.

How so? Seems appropriate since that's where people have bought it.

If you've bought the Chinese made SD2SNES you'll find they are of the same quality that Krikkz produces.

Retrorgb has reported otherwise.

You should grasp the situation before replying with incorrect assumptions.

And I think you should lay off a bit on the conspiracy theories. You come across as a bit of a hard-ass.

[Pasky]

How so? Seems appropriate since that's where people have bought it.

Because not everyone wanting support is a buyer. Did you miss the OSSC wolf thread?

Retrorgb has reported otherwise.

Where? I've bought a group from a Chinese supplier and they were identical to the Krikkz PCB's. Are you confusing them with everdrives?

And I think you should lay off a bit on the conspiracy theories. You come across as a bit of a hard-ass.

I don't care how I come off to you, as stated it was mentioned in this thread before, you can find mine and Marqs posts in this very thread, so what conspiracy?

[RGB0b]

I just posted this in the other thread, but since the discussion should be here anyway...

We all love the OSSC, support Markus, support Matt and want them all to succeed so we can continue to spend money on this awesome stuff that keeps getting released. Here's the ONLY debate happening right now:

The product is called the "open source" scan converter, but is not actually open source: It's a closed-source hardware scan converter with open source firmware. Markus confirmed that on my podcast last year, but the project is constantly referred to as open source, which confuses everyone (including me). When a new offshoot (the Wolf edition) popped up yesterday, it seemed as if it was a branch of an open source project, which then re-opened the "is it open source" debate. It would be nice if Markus posted here and clarified....maybe said something like:

- It's closed-source, it's my design, I'll call it whatever I want and sell it any way I want. Maybe I'll share some files, but it's a closed source project and completely up to me.

or

- It's open source. Here's the licence it's under. Here's the github for everything.

or

- It's closed source now. I'll open source it when I'm done with it. There's no timeframe for that.


Any of those answers is 100% okay. Even huge fans of open source completely respect closed-source projects and totally support people wanting to make a living off selling their products (I really do hope Markus made a good amount of money from this, as he deserves it). The debate is simply asking for clarity on what this project actually is: Open or closed....just like Pasky asked last year and just like a few people I know asked recently, but never got a direct answer to.


Edit - Markus replied here: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.ph ... 1#p1243611

[Harrumph]

How so? Seems appropriate since that's where people have bought it.

Because not everyone wanting support is a buyer. Did you miss the OSSC wolf thread?

I still don't see your point. In what way does the existence of the vgp forum take away from discussions taking place there or anywhere else by people who choose another route than to simply buy the existing kit?
If people want to source parts themselves, or even make redesigns, I don't see anything stopping them from inquiring in the vgp forums, or they can come here and create new threads. Someone could ask a moderator to create a subforum etc. If the community finds they can help them out then I'm sure they will. Granted, since Marqs' expertise is probably still pretty crucial for feedback, it makes sense to discuss in the places where he hangs out. You seem to infer that moving the direct support of the DIY kits (bought from vgp in the first place) to the vgp forums has somehow stifled discussion for everyone else. Counter-point, this thread.

If you are referencing the discussion about the open-source status of the project, sure that's a totally valid discussion, but that is not what you seem to be doing here. If that's exactly what you've been attempting, then I think you haven't been doing a very good job expressing that.

I don't care how I come off to you, as stated it was mentioned in this thread before, you can find mine and Marqs posts in this very thread, so what conspiracy?

Well good for you, most people take some care of their online appearence as that usually will have some repercussions for credibility and overall pleasantness of discussions, but w/e. It's just pretty ridiculous to paint Bucko like he's Standard Oil.

Regarding the chinese SD2SNES, yeah it's the same PCB (those schematics are open-source, afaik) but the quality of the components and build was apparently not up to snuff and iirc the unit RetroRGB tested the MSU-1 audio didn't work or something like that. If they worked out for you, great, you saved some money.

[RGB0b]

I've actually had a few questions I've been meaning to ask in this topic and since it seems like a good time to change the subject, might as well ask them now...

- Has anyone found an S-Video to RGB converter that's compatible with the OSSC? I'm obviously not thinking it'll improve the S-Video picture quality, but at least it would allow me to run S-Video through my OSSC and benefit from all the features.

- @Harrumph I believe you're the person who's been posting their settings for the OSSC on the VGP forums. Have you tried making it work on an iScan Micro? The reason I'm asking is if we can get it working with the Micro, that would be a cheap and easy way to make the OSSC compatible with ANY display or capture device. I tried some of your suggested settings and unfortunately didn't have much luck. The SNES refresh rate is just too weird for many displays and capture cards to handle.

I know you can use the VP's, the framemeister and other devices, but the goal is a small, cheap way to make the OSSC compatible with everything without adding much lag. Maybe even something like this?: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14600

[BuckoA51]

Has anyone found an S-Video to RGB converter that's compatible with the OSSC?

The Sony YR-1000, YR-3000 and at least one of the Extron ones work (the exact model was on the wiki but it's still down). I was kind of hoping ArcadeForge or someone like that would come up with an affordable one.

He also said he tested all of the units he built yet people in this thread alone there have been people with issues from boards he produced and I believe have asked them to send them back to him.

To clarify on this, I initially tested only the units that went outside of the EU as they were more expensive to return, but after higher than expected fail rate on batch 2 I decided I would test every unit. Of course, I can't say that even if I test a unit it won't break down later on down the line. Several of the ones we got back didn't seem to have any faults either.

[orange808]

I've actually had a few questions I've been meaning to ask in this topic and since it seems like a good time to change the subject, might as well ask them now...

- Has anyone found an S-Video to RGB converter that's compatible with the OSSC? I'm obviously not thinking it'll improve the S-Video picture quality, but at least it would allow me to run S-Video through my OSSC and benefit from all the features.

- @Harrumph I believe you're the person who's been posting their settings for the OSSC on the VGP forums. Have you tried making it work on an iScan Micro? The reason I'm asking is if we can get it working with the Micro, that would be a cheap and easy way to make the OSSC compatible with ANY display or capture device. I tried some of your suggested settings and unfortunately didn't have much luck. The SNES refresh rate is just too weird for many displays and capture cards to handle.

I know you can use the VP's, the framemeister and other devices, but the goal is a small, cheap way to make the OSSC compatible with everything without adding much lag. Maybe even something like this?: https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=14600

For composite and svideo, decoders are hard to find these days.
- Most of the Kramer decoders can't handle 240p--so steer clear of Kramer decoders. (The only unit I haven't been able to locate is the FC-10dxl. That one might do it... but, it might not... I don't know yet.)
-The Extron CD series units are hard to find, but they do a great job. Some asshole wants $400 for one on eBay. Obviously, that's ridiculous. Please don't encourage or reward that. Let that unit rot.
-My Harmonic Research decoder might be a bad unit. It decodes composite 240p to component, but the svideo does not work. It has a simple notch filter, so the quality of the output isn't great. The Harmonic Research units were always a generic cheap brand, so never pay more than $5-$10 US dollars.
-You can always use an XRGB-1, 2, or 3 to transcode svideo to RGBHV and feed that into the OSSC. Works well enough. For composite input, you might want to use an external comb filter and feed svideo to the XRGB--and bypass the XRGB comb filter. The cheap Extron YC and Kramer FC-10 units do a good enough job and support 240p; the fancy laserdisc comb filters everybody recommends introduce massive lag.

---

The Micro didn't work well for me. I think it sucks.

There is a cheap option, but it will look cheap. Not terrible, mind you, just not really good (either).

If you want video processor features and you don't mind using only the OSSC line double, the Kramer FC-719 - FC-724 line of processors can do the job with a frame of lag. The processor performs tolerable frame rate conversion; SNES, NES and Neo Geo will all work fine on any display. (You can zoom, crop, adjust colors, fix the Dreamcast aspect ratio, etc.) It's a trade off in quality and absolutely no substitute for a proper DVDO. The Kramer boxes are worth $25 usd with shipping included in the price. Don't pay more. You will also need an RGB to HDMI converter. The cheapest converters are about $10 usd.

Those Kramer boxes are slow at deinterlacing as well. You will have to use the OSSC's bob deinterlacing.

It's $35 usd. You get what you pay for. Still, it's the best cheap option I know of.

[Nrg]

- Has anyone found an S-Video to RGB converter that's compatible with the OSSC? I'm obviously not thinking it'll improve the S-Video picture quality, but at least it would allow me to run S-Video through my OSSC and benefit from all the features.

I've used Extron CD-400 Svideo to RGB converter with OSSC, and it works perfectly. C64 svideo output works out-of-the-box for me with this combo of Extron CD-400 + OSSC.

Note that Extron CD-900 does *NOT* work, as CD-900 only supports interlaced input, and C64 is progressive.

Sony S-RGB transcoders have some problems too, meaning they'll totally mess up the signal for a few seconds if there are all-white scenes in the C64 svideo signal --> you need to tweak the svideo cables and add extra resistors to lower the signal/voltage levels for the Sony S-RGB devices to work properly. (C64 svideo is known to have "too high" signal levels).