Fudoh's ode to old display technology

[Saturngamer81]

Just a simple question. when adjusting the brightness ona bvm. is it so that the no signal screen is at the blackest level? since mine by default 1000 is a dark grey. I dial down the brightness a bit, but I think that it doesnt look right

[Ed Oscuro]

I think there's a setting which allows you to more directly control the black level, so look around a bit.

[Saturngamer81]

A hint to what the setting might be called?

[okerlo]

Hey there,
I could get a Sony Trinitron KV-21FX30E, would you take this one for playing videogames? (snes, playstation 2 etc.)
I'm sure that this one isn't the best Trinitron out there but maybe it would do the trick.

edit: Now I'm confused, the seller took a picture of the manual of the television and it says KV-21FX30E but the television itself looks like a different model? (Picture in spoiler)

Spoiler

[MKL]

That's a KV-X2971K.

[accaris]

Hey there,
I could get a Sony Trinitron KV-21FX30E, would you take this one for playing videogames? (snes, playstation 2 etc.)
I'm sure that this one isn't the best Trinitron out there but maybe it would do the trick.

edit: Now I'm confused, the seller took a picture of the manual of the television and it says KV-21FX30E but the television itself looks like a different model? (Picture in spoiler)

Spoiler

When it came out, this TV would have been god-like for games. But this is a very old Trinitron. I would be surprised if it didn't have some kind of issue with the picture.

[okerlo]

That's a KV-X2971K.

Oh ok, thank you. I guess they just throw the same manual into the box? Or maybe the manual simply isn't the one for the television, who knows.

When it came out, this TV would have been god-like for games. But this is a very old Trinitron. I would be surprised if it didn't have some kind of issue with the picture.

Thanks, this is giving me a little bit of hope, I'm living somewhere in the desert no big city near so I don't find these kind of offers very often. The seller says that the picture is "crystal sharp", I could at least drive there and take a look at it.

[MKL]

That's a KV-X2971K.

Or maybe the manual simply isn't the one for the television

Exactly. The TV in your picture was manufactured in 1993-94, the other model you mentioned in the early 2000's. Also I hope it's now clear that one is a 29" curved and the other 21" flat. I would get the older model for sure, if it tests good.

[Xyga]

I would get the older model for sure, if it tests good.

Definitely. Those 90's curved Trinitrons are the best consumer sets.

But the 21" flat Trinitrons aren't bad either, super clear and sharp for consumer sets, also with less geometry issues than their 27"/29" flat big brothers of the same era.

[okerlo]

Thanks for the input!
Turns out they are living pretty much just down the road, I'll definitely take a look at the television. What should I look out for? I'm not that experienced with older television sets so are there any key things I should look for?

[accaris]

Thanks for the input!
Turns out they are living pretty much just down the road, I'll definitely take a look at the television. What should I look out for? I'm not that experienced with older television sets so are there any key things I should look for?

#1 check corners for discolored spots. Purple or green splotches. #2 see if you can hook it up and turn it on a news channel. The news banners or graphics at the bottom of the screen are a good way to check for geometry, to see if part of the screen is cut-off or if the picture has been rotated. Should be straight and uniform.

[okerlo]

Ok, thank you.
One last thing, what would you pay for the set? The seller is asking for 30€ so these are about $35. I'll try to reduce the price of course but would this be ok if the television is fine?

[accaris]

Ok, thank you.
One last thing, what would you pay for the set? The seller is asking for 30€ so these are about $35. I'll try to reduce the price of course but would this be ok if the television is fine?

Depends on where you live. Around here I'd tell him I was doing him a favor by getting rid of it for him, I'd try and get it for free

[okerlo]

I just got it, the television seems to be in pretty good shape and I couldn't find any disturbance with the picture.
The television says it is a Sony KV-29X2, this is one of the newer models? I just hope I got a nice one, the television weights a ton

edit: jsut swa that it is a 100hz television, does this cause any problems?

[MKL]

Yeah, that's a 100hz model. The model I mentioned above has the same cabinet (and so looks identical) but a different chassis (not a 100hz one). Test it out and judge by yourself if the picture is good enough...

[Guspaz]

100Hz model means that it doesn't natively support either the resolution or refresh rate that you're drawing at, so you should basically consider it the equivalent to a digital display like an LCD HDTV: it adds lag due to signal processing/upscaling/etc.

Some 100Hz TVs do have rather low lag, though, DuckHunt even works on some of them.

[okerlo]

Hm I don't know, I hooked up a PS1 with a rgb cable and it looks kinda ... blurry? Maybe I'm expecting too much and my memories are playing tricks on me but it looks like I'm hooking it up on an LCD television

[Guspaz]

PS1 on a PVM with RGB is razor sharp (almost too much so sometimes), but I think this is because your television is doing a non-integer upscale.

IIRC the 1080i display only supports 540p or 1080i, so faced with a 480i signal, it would deinterlace to 480p and then upscale to 540p, leading to much fuzzyness?

Somebody who is more familiar with these 100Hz 1080i displays could confirm.

EDIT: Maybe it's not a 1080i display, I'm not sure, but I think the same sort of issues apply, it's digitally processing the image in various ways.

[Xyga]

Some 480i or 576i hybrid modes IIRC, damn, did you try it on site before buying ?

[okerlo]

Some 480i or 576i hybrid modes IIRC, damn, did you try it on site before buying ?

Well, I checked the picture with some television channels and looked for any damages, which wasn't the case.
Unfortunately I took it and only saw the 100hz thingy after I set it up at home.

Man, shouldn't be that spontaneous sometimes
But it was an elderly couple and they said if I don't like the television or if there's something with it I can bring it back which I'm currently considering.

edit:
Currently can't take pictures but the picture looks kind fuzzy, not really sharp no real depth

[Xyga]

Happened to me once lol, but I kept it for a while and gave it to a buddy.
PS2 progressive scan compatible games looked nice on it though.
Tip: if there are component inputs on the back, it's probably a 100Hz.

[okerlo]

Happened to me once lol, but I kept it for a while and gave it to a buddy.
PS2 progressive scan compatible games looked nice on it though.
Tip: if there are component inputs on the back, it's probably a 100Hz.

It has two scarts, av and antenna. The front of the television says "100hz Digital Plus"

[FinalBaton]

Xyga, I dabbled with online video services and displayed it on the NEC crt, and I gotta admit that it's pretty cool

I know I said that I insist on owning the physical discs... but the Fist Of The North Star complete Tv series is $100 US and up on DVD. So instead I subscribed on Crunchyroll and watch it on there.

It does look good for an SD series (captured in 480i, obviously). They also offer a deinterlaced version (480p) and it does the job nicely.There is some noise in the lineart during zooms and pans, but otherwise the lineart is pretty solid. And the colors and contrast are good too.

I still plan on buying the DVDs, but in the meantime, this is a good alternative.
They don't have every anime though, I wanted to watch You're Under Arrest and it's not there (robably because AnimEigo have the exclusive rights for that, I guess). Also no Gall Force nor Gunsmith Cats

*MODs, please move this post if it's not appropriate for this thread. but since we started discussing this here a while back, and DVDs are pretty much legacy technology and I discuss the NEC XM37 Plus crt, I thought it had it's place here *

[accaris]

I only went through the first 20 pages of an "iscan lag" search, but I was wondering if anyone knew whether or not any additional processing lag is introduced when switching output resolution from 480p to 720 or 1080p in an iScan HD or above?

[Xyga]

It should stay the same at any selected output resolution.
The lag produced I think depends on the processed input signal rather than the upscaled output factor, and if you have selected a frame locked output or not.
(frame locked: usually 6~8ms, unlocked: ~22 and up depending on the signal/iScan)

[accaris]

It should stay the same at any selected output resolution.
The lag produced I think depends on the processed input signal rather than the upscaled output factor, and if you have selected a frame locked output or not.
(frame locked: usually 6~8ms, unlocked: ~22 and up depending on the signal/iScan)

Okay, output is at 60hz locked with iScan HD. Was curious because I have noticed a significant quality difference between 480p and 1080p with the iScan even with composite sources. Ringing is far less noticeable and the whole image seems sharper with fewer artifacts.

[Xyga]

Okay, output is at 60hz locked with iScan HD. Was curious because I have noticed a significant quality difference between 480p and 1080p with the iScan even with composite sources. Ringing is far less noticeable and the whole image seems sharper with fewer artifacts.

Yup that's normal, the higher the output the sharper the scaling and therefore picture quality.
I don't know if it's the same as with the vp30 but maybe if you set 'sharpness' to -1 there should be even less ringing.
(strangely sometimes the ideal/sweetspot is not the default '0')

[sixbynine]

Some A32 images on request.

[bobrocks95]

Might have to change my shorts after seeing those Super Bomberman pictures.

[FinalBaton]

holy...