XRGB-mini Framemeister

[Konsolkongen]

you really don't. The only way they can change the 1080p scanlines it to lock the scaling engine to video mode. Won't look as good as 720p.

I must have misunderstood you then? I thought you said that perfect 1080p scanlines was indeed doable on the Mini?

At least if they can linedouble > apply scanlines > scale.

What does "Video mode" mean, and why will it look worse than 720p?

I don't mind 720p myself. Heck, Samsungs scaling from 720p to 1080p looks much better than the DVDO Edge's and has zero noticeable ringing. I do want 1080p for 480i/p stuff though and if they don't include some kind of preset-function, keeping it all in 1080p would make it a bit easier to swap between systems.
I probably would like a preset-feature more than 1080p scanlines personally

Bonus question: Would the Mini be able to convert the colorspace from the Wii U's 16-235 to 0-255 by setting it to forced RGB or Deep Color?
That's pretty much all I use my DVDO Edge for these days. Just wondering if the Mini would be a suitable alternative once the new firmware with HDMI bypass is released

[Rymdkakor]

Thanks for the help Fudoh!

I see, this may be a stupid question, but why does the cable work with my snes if it's hooked directly to the tv but not when it's connected through the framemeister?
I thought that as both the snes and the gamecube have the same multi-out port I could use the same cable, but considering what you said do I need a specific gamecube rgb for the gamecube and another rgb cable for the snes?
I'll get back to you when I've tested it!

[Fudoh]

but why does the cable work with my snes if it's hooked directly to the tv

because your TV might use an automatic impendance/DC offset correction. It's luck. Usually those cables deliver a near-black picture on TV sets.

[Fudoh]

I must have misunderstood you then? I thought you said that perfect 1080p scanlines was indeed doable on the Mini?

perfect enough.

What does "Video mode" mean, and why will it look worse than 720p?

V_SCALER to anything BUT 6 or 7.

Overall it would look VERY SIMILAR to 720p now.

Ideally they would throw out the A/B scanline stuff and simply disable the V_SCALER settings 6 and 7 once the scanlines are enabled with 1080p output.

Bonus question: Would the Mini be able to convert the colorspace from the Wii U's 16-235 to 0-255 by setting it to forced RGB or Deep Color?

DC is only supported in YCbCr, so DC would automatically mean 16-235. RGB on the other hand should convert the RGB range. I haven't done any proper testing using the Mini's HDMI inputs, so I really can't comment on what's happening with those inputs right now.

[Konsolkongen]

Bonus question: Would the Mini be able to convert the colorspace from the Wii U's 16-235 to 0-255 by setting it to forced RGB or Deep Color?

DC is only supported in YCbCr, so DC would automatically mean 16-235. RGB on the other hand should convert the RGB range. I haven't done any proper testing using the Mini's HDMI inputs, so I really can't comment on what's happening with those inputs right now.

Thanks Fudoh. The Wii U outputs in YCbCr when playing Wii games and RGB(limited) for Wii U. That's why I asked about DC

But I guess it already does convert YPrPb to Full Range when playing a PS2 game with component and forcing the Mini to output RGB?

[Fudoh]

But I guess it already does convert YPrPb to Full Range when playing a PS2 game with component and forcing the Mini to output RGB?

sometimes - maybe ? This might be cause for the huge brightness offset differences when you switch a PS2 game from 240p to 480i to 480p. It's a mess

[Rymdkakor]

Connect the Wii (with component) to your TV, set the output to 576i, then connect the green "Y" cable to the composite input on the Mini. Works ? Then connect (only the Y) to the D-Terminal input and take it from there.

I tried that, sort of
I connected all three video cables to my tv, and it worked as usual, changed output mode from 480p to 576i and tried the wii with the framemeister one cable at a time and it worked!
With it working through the framemeister I tried the other video modes and amazingly they worked too, I have no idea why 480p didn't work at first but works now.
The only thing that I know is different is that I disabled "Burn-in reduction" in the Wii menu, but I can't see why that should make a difference.

It may be the Wii component cable, I read that it's awful and this isn't even an original cable, but I wasn't impressed with the picture I got. It's a lot better than without the framemeister, but it's not sharp at all, looks kind of like a jpeg image with too much compression artifacts. I had it in meister mode, tried both 720p and let my tv upscale it and 1080p native but it wasnt' much of a difference.
I really wish I could get my gamecube and snes working, I only got the wii to play gamecube games through component back when I didn't know of scalers (I thought it would give me a better picture on my lcd). Imho most of the games on wii are pretty "meh" so I haven't got any.

Are scanlines possible with inputs from the D-terminal? I tried turning them on but I couldn't really see any, if there were any they were very subtle, even in 480p output.

[Fudoh]

I had it in meister mode, tried both 720p and let my tv upscale it and 1080p native

likely because you a setting of the scaling engine suited to low-res material only. you have to adjust the H and V_SCALER setting.

Are scanlines possible with inputs from the D-terminal? I tried turning them on but I couldn't really see any, if there were any they were very subtle, even in 480p output.

If you use 480p input, another set of scanlines is used. A and B (or B odd and B even...). You have to set one of them to invisible and the other to your liking.

[marqs]

Bonus question: Would the Mini be able to convert the colorspace from the Wii U's 16-235 to 0-255 by setting it to forced RGB or Deep Color?

DC is only supported in YCbCr, so DC would automatically mean 16-235. RGB on the other hand should convert the RGB range. I haven't done any proper testing using the Mini's HDMI inputs, so I really can't comment on what's happening with those inputs right now.

Thanks Fudoh. The Wii U outputs in YCbCr when playing Wii games and RGB(limited) for Wii U. That's why I asked about DC

But I guess it already does convert YPrPb to Full Range when playing a PS2 game with component and forcing the Mini to output RGB?

DC is supported with both RGB and YCbCr. It just sets the output bpp from 8 to 10/12 bits per component if your TV supports it, but does not change the relative quantization range. YCbCr always uses limited range with standard color gamuts (e.g. 64-940 with 10bits) - full range is only used with xvYCC etc.

Setting the output to RGB should make Mini convert to full-range RGB, though as Fudoh said, this depends on the input resolution. From my experience, Mini usually uses full-range output for 240p & 480i, but switches to limited range output with 288p/576i. There are some exceptions though - I wonder if 1.08 fixes the RGB quantization range or at least gives an user option to change it.

[Fudoh]

DC is supported with both RGB and YCbCr

Deep Color doesn't exist on RGB Signals in the home theater world. RGB HDMI is strictly 8-bit, while YCbCr HDMI supports DC as in 10 and 12-bits per channel.

If you have a processor or display which details the incoming signal, you can check this. The Mini's RGB output is always 8-bit.

[marqs]

DC is supported with both RGB and YCbCr

Deep Color doesn't exist on RGB Signals in the home theater world. RGB HDMI is strictly 8-bit, while YCbCr HDMI supports DC as in 10 and 12-bits per channel.

If you have a processor or display which details the incoming signal, you can check this. The Mini's RGB output is always 8-bit.

Well, at least Mini says it's 12bit with my VT30.

[lettuce]

As my mini is winging its way to me now, i guess i need to make a DIN to UK Female scart cable. What socket do i need to buy for the mini side of things and is there a wiring/pin out diagram?

[Fudoh]

why bother when the exact cable you want is available online ?

[lettuce]

Its an 8 pin mini din

[Fudoh]

yeah, but you want this cable, right ?

http://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/euro ... -sale.html

Available from the UK. You're in the UK. Price is right. Why bother with soldering ?

[RGB32E]

The retro gaming cables SCART adapter is missing ground connections, and the retro gaming accessories ones all have sync strippers in them!

[NWrain]

What are the consequences of using either of them?

[darcagn]

The retro gaming cables SCART adapter is missing ground connections, and the retro gaming accessories ones all have sync strippers in them!

They make them with and without sync strippers. The one linked is without the sync stripper.

[lettuce]

What are the consequences of using either of them?

Yeah I'd like to know this too, from my understanding you don't need a cable with a sync stripper in it?. But RGB32E's comment about the retrogamingcables one not having ground connections is worrying??

The reason I wanted to make my own cable was the mini will be connected to my scart switcher, now I could get that cable Fudoh linked to but then I would need another scart to scart cable going from the adapter cable to the scart switcher, I always thought it was good practice to reduced the amount of cables going from one device to another as much as possible.

ThatS why I wanted to know the pinouts on the mini 8 din on the xrgb mini, so I could make a cable that had a male scart connection on it not female

[Fudoh]

Really ? above you wrote that you wanted an adapter cable with female scart ? If you want to connect to a switcher you would need male scart.

You don't need sync stripping in the cable.

The MiniDin8 pinout is available in the gamesx wiki.

[BuckoA51]

Before I used the sync stripping equipped cable my N64 would not work with the mini, but everything else was fine.

[lettuce]

Question about the above image, is that looking at the din straight on or is it looking at if from the solder side?? Also would have the ground just to pin 4 be fine with out the other ground?

Also what PSU are you UK guys using?

[Fudoh]

that's looking at the connector on the Mini - or looking at the cable from the behind.

[RGB32E]

Yeah I'd like to know this too, from my understanding you don't need a cable with a sync stripper in it?. But RGB32E's comment about the retrogamingcables one not having ground connections is worrying??

No need to worry. The ground issue was reported by someone earlier in this thread that wasn't getting a picture due to ground not getting connected to the mini from their source/cable through the SCART adapter sold by RGC. If your SCART cables have most of the ground pins connected to pins designated for ground, then there shouldn't be any problems.

The reason I wanted to make my own cable was the mini will be connected to my scart switcher, now I could get that cable Fudoh linked to but then I would need another scart to scart cable going from the adapter cable to the scart switcher, I always thought it was good practice to reduced the amount of cables going from one device to another as much as possible.

Minimizing the number of connections and distance is always a good thing. I think you have the right idea to build a RGB SCART out (using pin 19 instead of 20) to XRGB-mini 8MDIN cable.

That's why I wanted to know the pinouts on the mini 8 din on the xrgb mini, so I could make a cable that had a male scart connection on it not female

There's a space between pins 4 and 5, so you can always tell orientation based off of that. Hence, the diagram I posted on the wiki is looking at a female connector (i.e. looking at the XRGB-mini).

Question about the above image, is that looking at the din straight on or is it looking at if from the solder side?? Also would have the ground just to pin 4 be fine with out the other ground?

You can use either the hood or pin 4, or both! Once a 8MDIN plug is inserted to the mini both are electricly connected to each other (both connect to the same ground).

Before I used the sync stripping equipped cable my N64 would not work with the mini, but everything else was fine.

Weird. What revision are you using? Did you amplify RGB with a NJM or THS amp, or was this with a direct connection without buffering? The only configurations I found that needed sync stripping prior to XRGB-mini firmware v1.07 was certain revisions of the Playstation and Sega Saturn. I'm wondering if using a sync stripper resolving your N64 issue is just a red herring (fix for an issue that could be resolved otherwise).

[lettuce]

Minimizing the number of connections and distance is always a good thing. I think you have the right idea to build a RGB SCART out (using pin 19 instead of 20) to XRGB-mini 8MDIN cable.

So use pin 19 instead of 20 for the sync?

Also seems impossible to get a UK adapter (3 pin) with a 4.0mm 1.7mm tip

[kel]

Try this power supply. Ignore the tip measurements on the listings, I have one and it is a 4mm and 1.7mm tip. It can also be used in any country, not just the UK.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_trksi ... &_from=R40

[PsySlaver]

I'm having trouble getting the Framemeister to display RGB image. So far it only works with Sega Saturn. Both PS2 and PSX give me no signal. Any clues?

Thanks

[NWrain]

Are you using the included mini-din 8 adapter? Are you using Japanese or Euro scart?

[BuckoA51]

Weird. What revision are you using? Did you amplify RGB with a NJM or THS amp, or was this with a direct connection without buffering?

No idea sorry, bought it pre-modded.

[lettuce]

Might have a winner for a UK PSU....



http://www.amazon.co.uk/amp-power-suppl ... m_sbs_ce_6

Has plenty of head room as its 3 amp rather than 2.4 amp