RetroTink 4K All But Officially Announced ....

[fernan1234]

Yeah the flexibility of the Tink4K is nuts. My previous post was not a knock on the Tink, in case it wasn't obvious, but rather on the displays available now and for the next couple of years. Now we're just waiting for displays to catch up to our scaler, instead of the other way around

[orange808]

If displays ever get bright enough, the internal processing of our displays can implement rolling scan without lag.

The internal video processor of your display doesn't have to monkey around with an HDMI wire. The display's internals can essentially drive the panel directly with random access.

Of course, the (now defunct) line of Sony OLED pro monitors already used a variation of rolling scan. We just need brighter panels to deliver something that's commercially viable.

Bright displays should eventually make all this BFI obsolete. External rolling scan would require a change to the HDMI standard or an insane frame rate.

[fernan1234]

Oh yeah absolutely, panels could be doing this sort of stuff years ago but nobody cares. Sony is a leader in the industry, they implemented very effective BFI in their 120Hz LCD line that followed the CRT BVMs, and then as you noted they baked rolling scan into the OLED line (and eventually had to add an option to turn it off for those working on film stuff who couldn't handle the flicker). But then they just abandoned it for years with the dual layer BVM and any other professional LCDs, and now they're finally bringing it back with the upcoming model but paywalled behind a license whose cost will be in the thousands on a master monitor that will be around 40,000 bucks itself.

And then TVs on the other hand keep only adding half-assed laggy BFI and motion interpolation which is useless for our retro purposes. Monitors in turn don't even bother because they're targeting high (and variable) FPS modern gaming. All this to say the picture is grim and we'll most likely need to rely on external solutions for quite a while.

[tongshadow]

MVG claims "This is the best in class scaler you'll ever be able buy". I'm sure it's a great product but isnt it too early to say that before the Morph is out, specially considering it costs half as much?
https://youtu.be/WqNvvQ-B2a0?t=929

[bobrocks95]

Excited to pick up a Tink but we're well past the point of measured responses or wait and see attitudes. You have to have picked a side and then monitored the other 24/7 and kept meticulous screencaps lurking in their discord for months so you can prove they're horrible people (actual real MARS dev behavior). At $0 the Tink is a steal of course.

[SavagePencil]

No matter which side of the war you're on, I think what Mike did here set a new (and good) precedent: get the device into the hands of as many experts as possible so that you launch with the fewest number of snags. It sounds like it was being actively tested for close to a year, which will help him launch with kinks ironed out and weird incompatibilities ID'd well in advance.

[bobrocks95]

No matter which side of the war you're on, I think what Mike did here set a new (and good) precedent: get the device into the hands of as many experts as possible so that you launch with the fewest number of snags. It sounds like it was being actively tested for close to a year, which will help him launch with kinks ironed out and weird incompatibilities ID'd well in advance.

Great move for testing, and Morph absolutely needs more units out there. But now it's a tribalism thing and most of those testers will refuse a Morph even for free. Supposedly RetroRGB might not even cover it, which hopefully isn't true but wouldn't be surprising. I expect a lovely write-up on both from Fudoh at some point and then for half of the hardware forum to be shit-slinging and name calling for the foreseeable future.

[SavagePencil]

Not to stir the pot, but I don't know why Bob wouldn't cover it. He covered the pre-orders ( https://www.retrorgb.com/morph-pre-orders-on-11-24.html ) and has always seemed to be on top of Citrus and Dan and Woozle stuff. Anyway, the lesson here is that it pays to get the kinks ironed out and properly beta test the thing.

[Josh128]

No matter which side of the war you're on, I think what Mike did here set a new (and good) precedent: get the device into the hands of as many experts as possible so that you launch with the fewest number of snags. It sounds like it was being actively tested for close to a year, which will help him launch with kinks ironed out and weird incompatibilities ID'd well in advance.

Great move for testing, and Morph absolutely needs more units out there. But now it's a tribalism thing and most of those testers will refuse a Morph even for free. Supposedly RetroRGB might not even cover it, which hopefully isn't true but wouldn't be surprising. I expect a lovely write-up on both from Fudoh at some point and then for half of the hardware forum to be shit-slinging and name calling for the foreseeable future.

Did Fudoh even get a 4K for testing? If not, theres a lot of folks out there who seem to have gotten one that dont have the keen technical eye he does. Is that true?

Lol Bob saying hes not throwing shade but appearing to throw shade at PixelFX in that write up?

[ZellSF]

MVG claims "This is the best in class scaler you'll ever be able buy". I'm sure it's a great product but isnt it too early to say that before the Morph is out, specially considering it costs half as much?
https://youtu.be/WqNvvQ-B2a0?t=929

I, and I think most people (though I haven't asked all of them) don't factor in price when evaluating the quality of a product. MVG probably thinks similarly.

The best product and the most cost effective product are different things. IMO the later would go to one of the 300$ tier devices.

[RebeL9]

I am probably alone on this but paying 750 USD to imitate the image of a 30 usd composite CRT is just hilarious
I personally think Tink4K seems more ideal to upscale consoles such as DC, PS2, GC, Wii, Vita TV, PSP, Xbox 360, PS3 etc.
I've seen a few images when PSP games running on Vita TV have been upscaled on the Tink4K and it looks incredible.

I've not read the entire thread but I haven't found any info on if TInk4K can downscale? Can it go down to 240P?

[ZellSF]

I am probably alone on this but paying 750 USD to imitate the image of a 30 usd composite CRT is just hilarious

More like paying 750$ for the positives of CRT tech, without the negatives. Something you can't get by picking up a 30$ CRT.

[tongshadow]

MVG claims "This is the best in class scaler you'll ever be able buy". I'm sure it's a great product but isnt it too early to say that before the Morph is out, specially considering it costs half as much?
https://youtu.be/WqNvvQ-B2a0?t=929

I, and I think most people (though I haven't asked all of them) don't factor in price when evaluating the quality of a product. MVG probably thinks similarly.

Price is very important because it affects any economical decision, and we're talking about products with similar feature-sets. Sure, you can say the TINK4K is the best option for anyone who wants ALL features, but that's not true for the average user who, for example, just wants to plug their SCART/Component consoles into a 4k scaler and call it a day. For this case, the Morph could be a more rational option.

[SavagePencil]

MVG claims "This is the best in class scaler you'll ever be able buy". I'm sure it's a great product but isnt it too early to say that before the Morph is out, specially considering it costs half as much?
https://youtu.be/WqNvvQ-B2a0?t=929

I, and I think most people (though I haven't asked all of them) don't factor in price when evaluating the quality of a product. MVG probably thinks similarly.

Price is very important because it affects any economical decision, and we're talking about products with similar feature-sets. Sure, you can say the TINK4K is the best option for anyone who wants ALL features, but that's not true for the average user who, for example, just wants to plug their SCART/Component consoles into a 4k scaler and call it a day. For this case, the Morph could be a more rational option.

He said that price doesn’t factor into quality. Which is true.

And weren’t you the one arguing that “most” people will mod their consoles before using composite/S-video? You sure have a grasp of the demographics.

[orange808]

I've not read the entire thread but I haven't found any info on if TInk4K can downscale? Can it go down to 240P?

To what end? There's no analog output, so you would have to use an external DAC. Those are difficult to find.

Beyond that, you would be paying $750usd for a downscaler with no native analog output. You can build a GBS Control machine or buy a Corio2 for less.

Someday, the OSSC Pro may be available with analog output. That's not available now, but it may come along later. If that happens, the OSSC Pro will probably be the best downscaler.

[orange808]

Lol Bob saying hes not throwing shade but appearing to throw shade at PixelFX in that write up?

Say it again--and we can start talking about who started this business on Twitter. Or drop it now. Your choice. And, I'm talking about a dev and it ain't Mike.

[Fudoh]

got one, yes. Unfortunately very little time on hand due to family issues, so I won't have anything big for launch, but hope to do a proper review down the road in December.

Having spent thousands and thousands on processors on the past, the $750 are very tempting. Should be no brainer for anyone spending anything upwards of $2000 on a TV on a regular basis. The OSSC Pro price tag is fantastic and it's a very very nice alternative for anybody who's price-sensitive. The Morph is a bit of a question mark to me. I have no doubts that it will be a nice device, but I couldn't even motivate myself to pre-order a unit with ONLY a digital input. Seems to be aimed at users with GEM-HDMI mods for now. I would have pre-ordered one, if units with the analogue boards had been available. Still hope to get such a "complete" one next year.

[Josh128]

got one, yes. Unfortunately very little time on hand due to family issues, so I won't have anything big for launch, but hope to do a proper review down the road in December.

Having spent thousands and thousands on processors on the past, the $750 are very tempting. Should be no brainer for anyone spending anything upwards of $2000 on a TV on a regular basis. The OSSC Pro price tag is fantastic and it's a very very nice alternative for anybody who's price-sensitive. The Morph is a bit of a question mark to me. I have no doubts that it will be a nice device, but I couldn't even motivate myself to pre-order a unit with ONLY a digital input. Seems to be aimed at users with GEM-HDMI mods for now. I would have pre-ordered one, if units with the analogue boards had been available. Still hope to get such a "complete" one next year.

Sorry for what you are dealing with, hope it gets better soon. Im glad you got one, and look forward to hearing your take on it. You didnt do anything on the OSSC Pro did you?

[tongshadow]

And weren’t you the one arguing that “most” people will mod their consoles before using composite/S-video? You sure have a grasp of the demographics.

Still hung up on that, aren't you? Well then, modding is less expensive than staying on the path of most resistance by trying to adapt composite/s-video into everything else.
Also, the Morph will support composite/s-video anyways, so that's one less advantage for the Tink4K.

[SavagePencil]

And weren’t you the one arguing that “most” people will mod their consoles before using composite/S-video? You sure have a grasp of the demographics.

Still hung up on that, aren't you? Well then, modding is less expensive than staying on the path of most resistance by trying to adapt composite/s-video into everything else.
Also, the Morph will support composite/s-video anyways, so that's one less advantage for the Tink4K.

Sure, you can say the TINK4K is the best option for anyone who wants ALL features, but that's not true for the average user who, for example, just wants to plug their SCART/Component consoles into a 4k scaler and call it a day. For this case, the Morph could be a more rational option.

So they've gone through the effort and cost to have their machines RGB modded, but don't have the effort to pick a pre-tuned selection that's just right for their system? Anyway, you seem to be keeping score and understand the customer and the business better than the rest of us.

[AaronSR]

How does the smoothing on the 4K compare to the 2X and 5X's soft mode? it seemed to look a bit better at least in the earlier days on the 2X: https://youtu.be/FvFzcn8NCb4&t=1279

Also I'm just now hearing about these masking filters, does this mean we can use RGB cables but make them look like composite, for example, Sonic 1 waterfalls: https://youtu.be/x0weL5XDpPs&t=245

Obviously an easier solution would be to simply use composite cables but if you just wanted to stick with RGB 99% of the time and use the masking filters here and there its a lot easier.

I would love to see some PSP screenshots too if anyone has the time, something like LocoRoco; 2D with lots of bright colors.

[RebeL9]

I've not read the entire thread but I haven't found any info on if TInk4K can downscale? Can it go down to 240P?

To what end? There's no analog output, so you would have to use an external DAC. Those are difficult to find.

Beyond that, you would be paying $750usd for a downscaler with no native analog output. You can build a GBS Control machine or buy a Corio2 for less.

Someday, the OSSC Pro may be available with analog output. That's not available now, but it may come along later. If that happens, the OSSC Pro will probably be the best downscaler.

The GBS only downscales from 480p so that one is limited though.

[RebeL9]

got one, yes. Unfortunately very little time on hand due to family issues, so I won't have anything big for launch, but hope to do a proper review down the road in December.

Having spent thousands and thousands on processors on the past, the $750 are very tempting. Should be no brainer for anyone spending anything upwards of $2000 on a TV on a regular basis. The OSSC Pro price tag is fantastic and it's a very very nice alternative for anybody who's price-sensitive. The Morph is a bit of a question mark to me. I have no doubts that it will be a nice device, but I couldn't even motivate myself to pre-order a unit with ONLY a digital input. Seems to be aimed at users with GEM-HDMI mods for now. I would have pre-ordered one, if units with the analogue boards had been available. Still hope to get such a "complete" one next year.

If you have Vita TV. Could you please upload some images of PSP games upscaled to 4K?

[Dr. Claw]

got one, yes. Unfortunately very little time on hand due to family issues, so I won't have anything big for launch, but hope to do a proper review down the road in December.

Having spent thousands and thousands on processors on the past, the $750 are very tempting. Should be no brainer for anyone spending anything upwards of $2000 on a TV on a regular basis. The OSSC Pro price tag is fantastic and it's a very very nice alternative for anybody who's price-sensitive. The Morph is a bit of a question mark to me. I have no doubts that it will be a nice device, but I couldn't even motivate myself to pre-order a unit with ONLY a digital input. Seems to be aimed at users with GEM-HDMI mods for now. I would have pre-ordered one, if units with the analogue boards had been available. Still hope to get such a "complete" one next year.

Awaiting your review. I know you reviewed the 5X very early in its lifecycle and I was curious to see how things were after all the firmware updates.

All of the scoffing at the Tink 4K pricing made me think that many of the nay-sayers do not understand just what the device is really meant to compare to: video processors that normally cost $1000 and up and are not generally intended for video games. The idea is that you get that quality, but intended for video games.

I also agree with your take on the OSSC Pro. It's basically just like the original OSSC but with most of the features I wish the original had (namely frame buffered scaling and motion adaptive deinterlacing) but with the potential for much more. That it only ended up a sliver more expensive than the RT5X is a bonus. Back when it was announced, I was expecting to pay over $400 USD for it.

[tongshadow]

So they've gone through the effort and cost to have their machines RGB modded, but don't have the effort to pick a pre-tuned selection that's just right for their system?

Exactly, having a modded console is now paying off because said customer wont have to: Spend considerably more on a machine that has legacy inputs; or spend more on add-ons/cables for machines that dont.
Now tell us: Wouldnt a less expensive scaler that offers the same performance as a more expensive one, be a better choice for those customers?
And please, focus on discussing the machines themselves, not really interested in discussing Consumer Behavior or Economics on a gaming forum.

[Extrems]

How does the smoothing on the 4K compare to the 2X and 5X's soft mode?

There isn't any edge-directed interpolation at the moment.

[EnragedWhale]

Release date and time has been announced.

9th December at 2pm Pacific time.

Shipping the whole batch could go as late as Jan 15th

[SavagePencil]

Per the wiki, tate only works for 240p, 288p, and 360p. Is this a hard limit, or is there room for adding 480/720/1080? I’d love to do 360 and Switch games in tate.

[Extrems]

This is currently the hard limit. Some restructuring need to occur to have a chance of supporting more.

[SavagePencil]

This is currently the hard limit. Some restructuring need to occur to have a chance of supporting more.

Restructuring of FPGA space, or are there bandwidth/latency/memory restrictions?