Samsung F4500 plasma bargain for 480p sources

[Jack Burton]

Hey Josh or anyone else who can help. I'm still mulling over the loss of detail fro 1080p sources on the 4500 series. How does the image of a 240p or 480p source on one of these compare to say the same source run through an xrgb to thr 5300 series? I'm running a 1080p sammy lcd with an xrgb and fake scanlines. I've gotten it to a point where it looked as good as my 32" wega standard res crt.

Ive not seen what the xrgb can do with the 5300s with 480p sources (not even pictures on the net for that matter), but I assume what it does with 240p, I can do with PC and emulated scanlines. I may attempt to take some comparison shots of console raw 240p on the 4500 vs. emulated scanline 240p games from PC to the 5300 when I get some time.

Its a matter of personal taste, but I believe if you are looking for that BVM look you will prefer the XRGB and 5300 series for 240p games.

For 480p though, until I see it with my own eyes, I think the F4500 is king no matter what. The only way I would be able to create a comparison there would be to try the Dolphin emulator @ 640x480 with emulated scanlines on the 5300 to compare. I dare say though, at least for my eyes, its going to be very hard to top images like these from a real Wii:

http://i.imgur.com/TBRqtBp.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/bQVxzj8.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/7ernsNo.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/HOa1Jhu.jpg

Yeah, you're right about the 480p sources. At least for me (I have the xrgb-2 so I would have to upgrade to a newer version).

What about lag? I have been using the vga output from my xrgb directly to the back of my tv. It has vga (d-sub 15) in (which it calls pc). I cannot notice any lag at all when playing games through this input. It's crazy fast. I have a vga to component adapter cable that works for progressive sources (it does no scaling/processing). If I use this with my xrgb unit, would i notice more lag on a plasma than on a tv with vga in. From what I've read, the vga inputs do either none or very little image processing to lessen the input lag.

Thanks for the info!

[Xan]

Incidentally I remembered about an old shot from my Philips, which demonstrates my point about that TV not showing the "scanline" effect at all:

http://i.imgur.com/Yc3KZsG.jpg

Hey Xan - out of interest, do you remember the size of this CRT? In my experience, the only decent CRT TV that has a shadow mask that looks like that (no scanlines) is a 21" or under set but I'd be very interested to know if there are exceptions..

It's a 13 or 14".

[Josh128]

I just played around with the Dolphin emulator and unfortunately, it does not seem to have any options for emulated scanlines, so I didnt bother with hooking it to the 5300.

What I was able to do though, was compare Dolphin HDMI vs. real Gamecube Component, vs real Wii Component in a 480p shootout. Because some find the sharpness on my previous images too harsh, I set both the HDMI and Component inputs on the 4500 to 25. That should be low enough to pass the test for those who prefer minimum sharpness (I know some prefer 0, but lets compromise here!! ).

These are new images from this morning, first up is the GC at 480p, sharpness 25.

http://i.imgur.com/KftYq45.jpg

Next up is Dolphin, set to progressive scan, 720x480, sharpness 25.

http://i.imgur.com/vgsndZI.jpg

Finally, I included the Wii, as it is probably slightly behind GC in clarity, but still very close.

http://i.imgur.com/KChjTcJ.jpg

Pretty impressive showing by the Gamecube, and even the Wii, but of course its hard to beat PC hardware with HDMI. I'd actually say the limiting factor in the comparison here is my camera-- Im having a lot of trouble focusing on the screen, moreso than some of the earlier photos I posted, I have no idea why. All of the screens are actually quite a bit sharper in reality. If anyone knows how to enable scanline emulation on Dolphin, or any other console emulators that allow it, please let me know.

[Konsolkongen]

I think those pictures look much better. You should try running your games like this for a while and see if you don't end up liking it.

I don't want to sound like an ass, but I never really found any of your posts in this thread particularly helpful. I couldn't take it seriously that you claim to know, with absolute certainty, that this TV set outperforms every other HD set on the market. While at the same time, displaying pictures of your set having the sharpness turned up so high, that your eyeballs most likely need chemotherapy like there's no tomorrow.

That being said, I'm sure the TV does outperform any LCDs in most areas. It really should, as it's a plasma after all The resolution kills this for me, but I am currently looking for a 60" Samsung E6500 plasma myself. I had the 51" version earlier, and unfortunately the smaller version used an inferior panel, which not only had worse blacks, but were also a lot less resistant to permanent burn-in than the larger versions
Having some experience with high-end scalers like the Optoma HD3000, Lumagen VisionPro HDP and the DVDO Edge, and having owned far too many different TV sets over the years. I can say that the 720p to 1080p scaling on the E6500 is almost good enough to be mistaken for that of the Lumagen. While not as insanely razor-sharp, the picture is pretty much completely ringing free, which is amazing (Panasonic's S20 and ST50 plasmas, I've owned, had really bad ringing compared to the Samsung).
480p to 1080p on the E6500 really isn't anything special. I've seen worse, but it really helps with an external scaler here. I really doubt the E6500 supports 240p out of the box, but add an XRGB-mini for that, and 480i deinterlacing and you get an incredible versatile combination for anything you throw at it. And the input lag (in PC-mode) is only 16ms compared to CRT.

[Josh128]

I think those pictures look much better. You should try running your games like this for a while and see if you don't end up liking it.

I don't want to sound like an ass, but I never really found any of your posts in this thread particularly helpful. I couldn't take it seriously that you claim to know, with absolute certainty, that this TV set outperforms every other HD set on the market. While at the same time, displaying pictures of your set having the sharpness turned up so high, that your eyeballs most likely need chemotherapy like there's no tomorrow.

That being said, I'm sure the TV does outperform any LCDs in most areas. It really should, as it's a plasma after all The resolution kills this for me, but I am currently looking for a 60" Samsung E6500 plasma myself. I had the 51" version earlier, and unfortunately the smaller version used an inferior panel, which not only had worse blacks, but were also a lot less resistant to permanent burn-in than the larger versions
Having some experience with high-end scalers like the Optoma HD3000, Lumagen VisionPro HDP and the DVDO Edge, and having owned far too many different TV sets over the years. I can say that the 720p to 1080p scaling on the E6500 is almost good enough to be mistaken for that of the Lumagen. While not as insanely razor-sharp, the picture is pretty much completely ringing free, which is amazing (Panasonic's S20 and ST50 plasmas, I've owned, had really bad ringing compared to the Samsung).
480p to 1080p on the E6500 really isn't anything special. I've seen worse, but it really helps with an external scaler here. I really doubt the E6500 supports 240p out of the box, but add an XRGB-mini for that, and 480i deinterlacing and you get an incredible versatile combination for anything you throw at it. And the input lag (in PC-mode) is only 16ms compared to CRT.

No worries mate-- have you tried the 51F5300? Its full 1080p, no pentile matrix, and essentially does everything this 4500 set does, but at 1080p. The latest BFXZA revision has very good black levels and overall performance for the price ($549 US). I currently dont use any external processors and Im being sincere when I say I think raw Wii, GC, PS2, and 240p systems look much better on the 4500 than 5300. Im sure with a Framemeister and the 5300 you can get superior 240p, but not sure about the 480p. Something about the overall performance of this 4500 just does it for me, without the need for external processors.

Not sure how the E6500 compares to the F5300, but I can tell you that both the F4500 and F5300s are VERY resistant to burn in as far as plasmas go. If you have any questions about the 5300 I'd be glad to help if I can. The lag may be too much for you though, its pretty close to this set (36-48ms).

I really wish I had a better camera, though, my pics just arent cutting it, try as I may...

[Josh128]

Heres some more shots-- Zelda:TP (GC Version) running on Wii. These came out a bit better. Sharpness still 25.

http://i.imgur.com/JsMhubo.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/UZT3YrY.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5Uz43Na.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/X091LFH.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/rLiiEjl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/wH0WFR3.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/D4rsZFl.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/suTmEUt.jpg

[Konsolkongen]

No worries mate-- have you tried the 51F5300? Its full 1080p, no pentile matrix, and essentially does everything this 4500 set does, but at 1080p. The latest BFXZA revision has very good black levels and overall performance for the price ($549 US). ...

Not sure how the E6500 compares to the F5300, but I can tell you that both the F4500 and F5300s are VERY resistant to burn in as far as plasmas go. If you have any questions about the 5300 I'd be glad to help if I can. The lag may be too much for you though, its pretty close to this set (36-48ms).

I haven't, and unfortunately there's no stores nearby that sells it. I think I did read up on it when it was released, and I'm sure it's similar to the E6500 in many way. But if the lag is higher then it's no good for me. Especially paired with the XRGB-mini which isn't exactly lagfree. I'll keep it in mind though, thanks

[Xan]

While at the same time, displaying pictures of your set having the sharpness turned up so high, that your eyeballs most likely need chemotherapy like there's no tomorrow.

Funny that this is mentioned, I've actually thought that Josh's eyesight maybe isn't perfect and he just doesn't see those crude sharpness artifacts from his normal viewing distance. Nothing wrong with that, just have to call a spade a spade.

About the magical burn in resistance, I disabled the pixel shift option on mine becase it irritated me and I think I already have a bit of burn-in on mine. It's invisible outside of putting up a 0 IRE screen and placing my face against the screen so I don't care, but I'm not playing any game for longer than 2 hours so calling it super resistant against burn-in is really pushing it. I think in an earlier case it went away when playing another game long enough so maybe it's not permanent after all, idk.

I've also noticed a bit of clouding on the edges with said black screen, it's a cheap TV so not complaining. But it's interesting how this sort of defect looks so similar to LCDs, yet it obviously has to be due to completely different reasons on plasmas...

[Josh128]

While at the same time, displaying pictures of your set having the sharpness turned up so high, that your eyeballs most likely need chemotherapy like there's no tomorrow.

Funny that this is mentioned, I've actually thought that Josh's eyesight maybe isn't perfect and he just doesn't see those crude sharpness artifacts from his normal viewing distance. Nothing wrong with that, just have to call a spade a spade.

About the magical burn in resistance, I disabled the pixel shift option on mine becase it irritated me and I think I already have a bit of burn-in on mine. It's invisible outside of putting up a 0 IRE screen and placing my face against the screen so I don't care, but I'm not playing any game for longer than 2 hours so calling it super resistant against burn-in is really pushing it. I think in an earlier case it went away when playing another game long enough so maybe it's not permanent after all, idk.

I've also noticed a bit of clouding on the edges with said black screen, it's a cheap TV so not complaining. But it's interesting how this sort of defect looks so similar to LCDs, yet it obviously has to be due to completely different reasons on plasmas...

Thanks, but Im pretty sure my eyesight is OK. I CAN notice the artifacts and ringing, especially around edges of solid colors-- but I have always preferred the tradeoff to a sharper image for certain sources. I did state earlier that for HDTV video I actually use lower settings. I have been playing around with the lower settings and I do think, after playing around with Zelda, its not so bad. With N64 though, I find those same settings (25) look a little too soft, and still prefer more. In any case, theres nothing inherently wrong with a sharpness setting of 50 or even higher-- the TV comes with this as default, and the option to go higher is there for a reason, some people may prefer it. The more I study my photos though, the more I can see some of them can look a bit harsh-- Im trying to train myself to accept lower settings with different sources to compare the differences and see if I might end up liking them better.

As for your burn in statement, first off, the pixel shift option is useless, as it only shifts the image a few pixels around-- it wont stop burn in, it will only make a slightly larger silhouette of the image that may cause burn in if left on far too long.

These sets ARE very resistant to burn in compared to Panasonics and many older plasmas-- Ive already cited the CNET torture test, but more than that, I have owned a total of 4 plasmas (still own 3), run them at high cell light (16-20) and my oldest currently is the one Ive been posting pics of-- it doesnt have the slightest hint of burn in and its over a year old (14 months as a matter of fact).

How you can own one of these sets for less than a month then come on here and contradict my statements regarding this is a bit silly. How many plasma sets have you owned to compare these to? I have owned a Panasonic and I can tell you that after my son played a couple hours of Viewtiful Joe on it, it left stubborn IR for several days despite varying content-- I have never experienced anything like that on any of my 3 Samsung sets. The Panasonic also had apparent burn in from a TV logo on the lower right quadrant of the screen-- Im not sure how it got it but I was NEVER able to clear it up.

IR can and will appear sometimes after holding a menu or grid up on the screen for sometimes no more than a few seconds-- but it will usually disappear completely just as quickly. Normal IR is related to leftover charges in plasma cells, not phosphor wear. Newer sets are even more prone to IR than normal.

Burn in is uneven wear of the phosphors on the screen, and pretty much wont ever go away.

These sets arent "magic", and like any emmissive fixed pixel display are not immune to burn in, but as far as plasmas go I have found them to be very resistant thus far to long term IR and burn in-- which is much more than I can say for the Panasonic I recently got rid of. If you vary the content from time to time it is a non-issue, especially on this set.

As for your set having burn in, that is EXTREMELY unlikely unless you have purposely abused it. More than likely you just have a bit of image retention. Burn in will not go away, ever. IR is common on all plasmas, and these sets get them as well, but it is usually fleeting and will disappear after only a minute or so of watching varying content, such as video. Some IR is more stubborn and may take 30 minutes or more of varying content to disappear.

As for it being a "cheap set", well, they are now, but it was only a few years ago when these sets cost several hundred dollars more -- and they have always gotten very good reviews, regardless of their costs. Not sure whats up with yours, but the screen uniformity on mine, on dark and on white screens, is near perfect.

Heres a picture of my oldest 51F4500 displaying a black screen with a thin white border in a pitch black room. Not the greatest picture, but the black is completely uniform, with no visible IR, despite me regularly running 4:3 content, varying between black and grey pillar bars. The white dots are reflections of the white border from a mirror in the back of the room.

Black with white borders:
http://i.imgur.com/u828XWW.jpg

Full Red:
http://i.imgur.com/hBdTL1s.jpg

Black with white dot in pitch black room :
http://i.imgur.com/UEAwFGi.jpg

The MLL is so low I cant get my camera to pick it up-- I can see the screen in the room, apart from the darkness, but my camera cant. The black shows no signs of clouding or IR anywhere on the panel.

[Xan]

I'm just posting my honest experiences here with this set, that's it. I'm not sure why you still seem to take everything personally...

With the IR, I've had it off for about 24h since the last use when checking and there was some IR from two games on it. But, yeah, I'll see how this develops of course.

The "clouding" phenomenon is something that many users would have to check to make any statement on whether it's common on a certain model, but FWIW it's also mentioned on this site here (down at the Q&A section): http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/plasma/samsung/f4500

[Jack Burton]

This doesn't apply to just this tv, but the lack of inputs on tvs nowadays is a little concerning. Is it even possible to take the vga out from my xrgb-2 and use a passive vga to component cable (I use it to convert the component signal from a wii to vga) to use the component input on a newer tv like this one? I just assumed it would work, but now I'm a little concerned. I've tried searching for this online, but haven't found any positive news.

[Fudoh]

No, you need a transcoder.

[Jack Burton]

No, you need a transcoder.

Thanks for the confirmation. I suspected as much. So I might be better off finding a used lcd with pc input.

[Fudoh]

a simple VGA to HDM converter is less than $20, lagfree and gives you the same quality as a display with VGA input.

[Jack Burton]

a simple VGA to HDM converter is less than $20, lagfree and gives you the same quality as a display with VGA input.

Really? Nice. I was resigning myself to looking for an older lcd with a vga input. I really wanted a plasma, and I'm not buying a used one.

Thanks again!!!!

[22point8]

a simple VGA to HDM converter is less than $20, lagfree and gives you the same quality as a display with VGA input.

Wouldn't that do something to the aspect ratio though because the dreamcast is 640x480 in a 720x480 frame?

Anyway my attempt to build a cable failed, I guess I needed additional circuitry to combine the h and v sync, but when I was looking for information on combining the sync from a dreamcast I came across a thread on here about using an Extron to combine sync, and seeing as I have one (109xi) I did the following:

Dreamcast VGA>Exton>RGBC>Scart Breakout>CSY-2100G>PS43F4900

It has some weird interference but it worked.

Under Defeat




Dreamcast Menu


Guilty Gear X

[Fudoh]

Wouldn't that do something to the aspect ratio though because the dreamcast is 640x480 in a 720x480 frame?

it would handle it exactly the same way a direct VGA input would.

[22point8]

Ah ok, I thought it would make everything 16:9 or something, I might get one then. So its something like this then?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PC-Laptop-DVD ... 1c36967d5f

[Fudoh]

There's no scaling, so unless your TV can't switch into 4:3 mode with 480p signals, you'll be fine.

Some VGA to HDMI converters can be thrown off by the DC's signal levels in VGA mode (which are too high compared to standard VGA specs), but most will be fine.

Your method (RGBHV to RGBs to Component) is slightly better as it fully preserves the DC's resolution (since YUV inputs recognize 480p as 720x480p). The VGA to HDMI converter will sample the input with 640x480p (just like any physical VGA input on a TV would do). You can use the special move bar at the bottom of the GGX battle screens as a benchmark. Sampling the input at a wrong rate will introduce some moire effects there.

[Edward_Tz]

Been reading through this thread and the one on avsforum. See a lot of talk about the lag and Josh has said in the range of 30 - 50 ms. Would you say the lag is pretty consistent or is it all over the place? Does it change a lot from 240p to 480p?

Seems like the options for plasmas are getting fewer and fewer. I'd hate to buy a f4500 from Samsung just because I like how it looks and then have to return it. I'm fine with consistent input lag but when it's jumping I can't handle that. The price seems to make it seem too good.

[Ed Oscuro]

I'm personally waiting for CES on the 6th and for sites to start digesting what's on the near horizon for display. It looks like 4K and more Smart TV platforms but I'd rather know.

At the $300 or so for the cheapest plasma, you'll have to decide if that's enough to make you regret a purchase or not. It is far less than many of the other similarly-sized options though.

[Josh128]

I'm just posting my honest experiences here with this set, that's it. I'm not sure why you still seem to take everything personally...

With the IR, I've had it off for about 24h since the last use when checking and there was some IR from two games on it. But, yeah, I'll see how this develops of course.

The "clouding" phenomenon is something that many users would have to check to make any statement on whether it's common on a certain model, but FWIW it's also mentioned on this site here (down at the Q&A section): http://www.rtings.com/reviews/tv/plasma/samsung/f4500

Im not taking them personally, I welcome your thoughts. The long reply is simply to explain my original statement in regards to burn in on these sets. Unless something has gone horribly wrong with your set, you dont have burn in. Over my 3 Samsung plasmas, I have about 24 total months of end user experience with them, none of them have any persistent IR or burn in at all. That said, they ALL get fleeting IR that is usually completely gone in within a minute or two of switching content off of what caused the IR-- this is completely natural and expected for the tech and doesnt in any way reflect on their long term IR and burn in performance. I dont want folks to get the wrong idea when they read your post. I stand by my previous statement 100% about their burn in resistance vs. other plasmas.

Im guessing you might be new to plasma, and the IR can indeed freak out a new owner at first-- but as I said earlier, I very much doubt your panel would have any burn in at this point. When you notice any IR, switch to a TV channel and let it play for 5 to 10 minutes, then put a full black screen-- it should be completely gone. If its not, let the video play longer. I'd be very surprised if it doesnt completely disappear quickly.

There are certain precautions everyone needs to take as a plasma owner-- playing the same game with the same HUD 3 or 4 hours a day for days on end is OK as long as you vary the content with some full screen video after each session. If you dont do this, and you binge on the same game /HUD without varying the content, you are asking for trouble, regardless of the set or brand. While they are very resistant, they, still being plasmas, obviously are not immune if abused.

I usually dont even do anything as specific as the above for my sets, except for my sons, he plays Terraria for hours on end with a constant HUD/menu on it-- when he gets finished I ask him to switch the set to a TV channel and let it run until he either comes back to the room later to play, or thinks about it.

As a plasma owner, you do have to realize these are not LCDs, or even CRTs, but they are fine to game on, without issue, if you are willing to vary the content to insure you dont get a surprise a year down the road.

[Josh128]

Been reading through this thread and the one on avsforum. See a lot of talk about the lag and Josh has said in the range of 30 - 50 ms. Would you say the lag is pretty consistent or is it all over the place? Does it change a lot from 240p to 480p?

Seems like the options for plasmas are getting fewer and fewer. I'd hate to buy a f4500 from Samsung just because I like how it looks and then have to return it. I'm fine with consistent input lag but when it's jumping I can't handle that. The price seems to make it seem too good.

My photo tests vs. CRT are within that same range regardless of 240p, 480p, or even native 1024x768-- no real difference (to my surprise) was measured with any of these, or even with Game mode for that matter.

I play retro games (Wii and backwards) mostly, and I can tell you without fail I dont even notice the lag unless I have a CRT on the side of it to see the difference. My DKC video, though 30fps, illustrates it better than any number or wording could. I have offered to torrent the 60fps version of it, but no one has expressed interest as of yet. I have a GEFEN TV Composite/SVideo to HDMI adapter that I bought before I bought this set though, and I can CERTAINLY detect the lag on it, even when feeding an HD CRT (my old Philips had broken 240p support, had to convert to HDMI to play my old systems prior to going RGB).

I never measured the lag on the GEFEN, which I still use for my satellite box, but its not even in the same ballpark as the plasma. I've been gaming for 30 years and I promise I can tell when my NES doesnt feel like it did for 20 years of playing-- I honestly dont notice the lag while playing-- I think its being blown WAY out of proportion, but hey, whatever works for you, or anyone else who can tell the difference between this and a 28ms lag set, without having them side by side.

If you are interested in the 60fps video, let me know and I'll set up a torrent. Ive given up on trying to get it on Youtube at 60, or even convert it to 60 locally.

[wildchild22]

No need for the lag test as I measured it already using a lag tester.


Also this set looks great all around. My little one is playing xbox 360 non stop and it looks great. It has no issues with IR at all. It is a superb plasma for gaming.

After 2-3 hrs of minecraft there is no IR at all on the screen. I would of expected it would as of the white cross hairs and inventory HUD. But it shows nothing.

It seems all samsung plasmas are good for IR.

I have had mine on 24x7 for the last week. When it is not being used for gaming I run the scrolling burn in pattern. Once I get a few weeks like this I will no longer need the scrolling pattern. Then I will calibrate it.

[Edward_Tz]

My photo tests vs. CRT are within that same range regardless of 240p, 480p, or even native 1024x768-- no real difference (to my surprise) was measured with any of these, or even with Game mode for that matter.

I play retro games (Wii and backwards) mostly, and I can tell you without fail I dont even notice the lag unless I have a CRT on the side of it to see the difference. My DKC video, though 30fps, illustrates it better than any number or wording could. I have offered to torrent the 60fps version of it, but no one has expressed interest as of yet. I have a GEFEN TV Composite/SVideo to HDMI adapter that I bought before I bought this set though, and I can CERTAINLY detect the lag on it, even when feeding an HD CRT (my old Philips had broken 240p support, had to convert to HDMI to play my old systems prior to going RGB).

I never measured the lag on the GEFEN, which I still use for my satellite box, but its not even in the same ballpark as the plasma. I've been gaming for 30 years and I promise I can tell when my NES doesnt feel like it did for 20 years of playing-- I honestly dont notice the lag while playing-- I think its being blown WAY out of proportion, but hey, whatever works for you, or anyone else who can tell the difference between this and a 28ms lag set, without having them side by side.

If you are interested in the 60fps video, let me know and I'll set up a torrent. Ive given up on trying to get it on Youtube at 60, or even convert it to 60 locally.

I appreciate your opinions on this TV and all the pictures you posted. I'm going to order it and hope it all goes well. More worried about it getting to me in one piece at this point.

[22point8]

For what its worth the manual lag test on the 240p test suite I can respond in less than 1 frame consistantly, so if there is lag you can certainly adapt to it, I'm sure to wait for the green flash or beep and I often get -1 frames, it takes a while to get 0 or above. I think the battle thing in kirby on the snes is a better test, best I can do is 11ms vs the knight. If I use the beep I'm always ahead of the lag test so bestto do it visually. But my reactions are pretty good a few years ago I beat this guy to 30m, he kicked my ass over 100m though, that was in 2008 if I recall.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/others ... ngham.html

[Josh128]

No need for the lag test as I measured it already using a lag tester.


Also this set looks great all around. My little one is playing xbox 360 non stop and it looks great. It has no issues with IR at all. It is a superb plasma for gaming.

After 2-3 hrs of minecraft there is no IR at all on the screen. I would of expected it would as of the white cross hairs and inventory HUD. But it shows nothing.

It seems all samsung plasmas are good for IR.

I have had mine on 24x7 for the last week. When it is not being used for gaming I run the scrolling burn in pattern. Once I get a few weeks like this I will no longer need the scrolling pattern. Then I will calibrate it.

The scrolling pattern is OK, just be careful as I have had mine kick off after a few minutes before (think it was a setting). I recommend just tuning to an OTA channel or a satellite channel with no logos and just running it like that for break-in and if you ever have a little IR to clear, works like a charm. Between my three sets, I have used the scrolling pattern for probably less than 10 minutes total, I always use video content, as I also watch TV/DVR on my sets.

What did your Bodnar tester return? Did you see any repeatable differences in different res/Game/PC mode?

[wildchild22]

I posted this awhile back.

It seems it always measures 38.3 ms same as my samsung pn50c490 plasma in gamer mode. The pn50c490 is almost 100 ms without gamer mode selected.

The lag measures 38.3 ms with the Leo Bodnar 1080p@60hz lag tester with gamer mode enabled or disabled. Gamer mode does not help at all.

[Ed Oscuro]

How about PC mode?

[wildchild22]

I looked through all the menus and cannot find a pc mode.

I will check it if you can tell me how to enter the mode!

How about PC mode?