The BIG thread of Shmup grievances.

[DrTrouserPlank]

Trevhead haven't you heard?

Futari is impossible, and larsa requires 450 lives to beat, MINIMUM!

If 40-60 hours practice isn't enough to beat it, then it is virtually impossible.

I don't want to be one of these people who plays these games for 10 hours a day and develops an allergic reaction to daylight.

[Hagane]

Maybe you are still not good enough and should get back to it after practicing your STG skills a bit more in an easier game?

[NTSC-J]

[Aliquantic]

If 40-60 hours practice isn't enough to beat it, then it is virtually impossible.

I can't blame you, it's so much more fun to spend that time posting on the forums... I for one am flattered you've spent that much time just for the privilege of talking to us

[Zengeku3]

I don't want to be one of these people who plays these games for 10 hours a day and develops an allergic reaction to daylight.

Then you'll probably not want to play Cave since those games takes hundreds of hours of practice to beat. Go play Ten Desires instead. Its easy mode is supposed to be pretty well balanced.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Then you'll probably not want to play Cave since those games takes hundreds of hours of practice to beat. Go play Ten Desires instead. Its easy mode is supposed to be pretty well balanced.

But that would mean he's playing his own game

1.5 original.

Ah my bad, in all seriousness you'ld be better off playing doujins and CAVE novice & arrange modes. If you want to player the harder games play with 3, 5 or 7 credits instead, its what 8/16 bit console shmups went by and how many old timers played by before they had even heard about the 1CC.

The 1CC is a goal that some shmup players go by, but shmups dont have to be played that way. I bet there are even some folk on this forum that dont bother with the 1CC, and many more that dont get 1CCs regularly. (i dont)

[Illyrian]

Trevhead haven't you heard?

Futari is impossible, and larsa requires 450 lives to beat, MINIMUM!

If 40-60 hours practice isn't enough to beat it, then it is virtually impossible.

I don't want to be one of these people who plays these games for 10 hours a day and develops an allergic reaction to daylight.

Futari 1.5 took me less than 15 hours of practice scattered over 6 months roughly, and the only games i've played for 10 hours a day are guitar hero world tour and world of warcraft.

I'm not like sapz or errpo who are actually good either, i'm proper shit at shmups, so you must just be a buttmad 14 year old or something

[DrTrouserPlank]

I'm not sure which title I should adopt. I've been given so many compliments since starting here. My favourites are "troll" which was then subsequently upgraded to "retarded", then I was reallocated a higher rank with "master troll" now I seem to also be eligible to use the title "buttmad" as well.

This will require some serious thought.

[BIL]

"Scrub" works fine.

[Zengeku3]

Maybe you should put some of that thought into something constructive instead. Like figuring out how to properly play a bullethell shooter.

[DrTrouserPlank]

"Scrub" works fine.

Sounds like something illiterate children say whilst playing Call of Duty.

I'll pass on that one thanks.

[BIL]

COD, shooters, fighting games, it applies to shitty players everywhere.

[Illyrian]

Scrub applies to people unwilling to put the effort in to learn properly and complain all the time.

Noob is someone who is new/bad.

Plankytrousers is definately a scrub.

[O. Van Bruce]

This is what DTP is for the people of this thread:



This is what they subsconsciously think about him:


"But they are too difficult"

I can't understand why people keep answering him...

[DrTrouserPlank]

Typical number of hours to clear Triggerheart?...... 20, 50, 100?

[Illyrian]

Typical number of hours to clear Triggerheart?...... 20, 50, 100?

For you, at least 400, and only if you hack the game to give you 50 lives.

[Zengeku3]

Triggerheart Exelica depends on the difficulty you play it. On the easiest, its not that bad really. If you managed to get to Larsa on Futari then Triggerheart shouldn't be too terribly hard for you.

I personally only spent around a few hours on it getting all the good endings.

[DrTrouserPlank]

Triggerheart Exelica depends on the difficulty you play it. On the easiest, its not that bad really. If you managed to get to Larsa on Futari then Triggerheart shouldn't be too terribly hard for you.

I personally only spent around a few hours on it getting all the good endings.

I think I've spent a good 20 hours on it and die on stage 4 each run. Playing on normal.

[Zengeku3]

Okay. Then I can only offer two kinds of advice. Switch to Easy mode if you don't feel ready for Normal. If you don't want to do that then you are just going to have to practice Normal. I'm pretty sure that the game offered a training mode though its far too long time ago that I played it for real.

[RNGmaster]

I don't know what to say here. If you think 40 hours is an excessive amount of time to put into one game then of course you suck.
Of course I've played about 180 hrs. of DB but that was an hour and a half per day, max. You don't have to be a dreaded no-life to play shmups, just play small amounts regularly and don't get frustrated if you do worse.

[DrTrouserPlank]

I don't know what to say here. If you think 40 hours is an excessive amount of time to put into one game then of course you suck.
Of course I've played about 180 hrs. of DB but that was an hour and a half per day, max. You don't have to be a dreaded no-life to play shmups, just play small amounts regularly and don't get frustrated if you do worse.

I think 40 hours is quite a bit of time. It's certainly quite a bit of time to waste and still be at least another 40 hours off being able to clear a game. In the case of futari I suspect I'm nearer to 80 hours and frankly nowhere near to clearing it. I've given that up as a lost cause...

[dunpeal2064]

Its weird that you can intellectually approach whatever people here have to say to you, but you can't approach these games this way. I mean, the game is 5 stages long. If you could do each stage by itself without dying, I don't see how the entire game is impossible (even by your definition of impossible, which is not what the word means at all )

Honestly, I only play an hour a day, and I don't play the same game each day, so I'm not using my time well (If my main goal was a 1cc). I've had Futari since December 2010, and I just recently got to Larsa with 162mil. The game did not seem impossible, or even imporbable, at any point. Larsa is pretty hard, but after playing stage 5 on its own a few times, and then giving 4 or 5 credits to full runs, I should be able to have most of the resources the game gives you, and I could do Larsa without even knowing how.

Have you tried playing the original Dodonpachi for a 1cc, not trying to score? I feel like Dodonpachi is an easier clear than 1.5 original Futari, and its what I'm pushing for now.

You couldn't master the guitar or martial arts in 40 hours, and I'm sure you don't find those impossible. These games are just much different than most games, in that almost all of their appeaql comes from you playing them and getting past the parts that are pissing you off.

It just makes me sad that you feel so strongly about this game, and that you are better than me at it. And shit man, you are so close to a 1cc.

[Illyrian]

I personally think Dodonpachi is WAAAAAAAY harder than Futari 1.5 original.

[Deca]

You're maybe my favorite person on the forum, honestly. If you could like, post up a little mugshot so we could make it into a sig image that'd be pretty sweet. Make it like a little shrine or something. I dunno why but I still have fun reading this thread.

But yeah come on man Death Smiles is balls easy, there's no sense in sugar coating it. Yes it's obnoxious if you activate suicide bullets and play EX, I just decided I didn't enjoy dealing with that style of game and got my 1CC and moved on to other games I like more.

Just play the highest levels you can without turning on the suicide bullets and don't go to the EX stage. I beat the game within a day or two of getting it, and that was back before it had proper slowdown. The only trick is to spend an evening just playing through the castle stage over and over until you have a good grasp on the layout and a plan for dealing with each part of it. Jitterbug isn't as bad as he looks if you just check out some replays, you can get the extend easily. If not, just keep your cool and you should be able to get through him with no more than two bombs. Just stay on your toes and you should be able to make it through Tyrannosatan. Oh, and use Rosa. I used Casper for my first clear just because I liked her and eventually found her to be the most difficult character to use.

The skill you've already demonstrated in reaching the end of Futari 1.5 is more than adequate for beating DS. Just pump yourself up a bit and (I know this part is going to be really difficult for you) try to stay somewhat positive.

I feel like you may have trouble with hitbox awareness. Futari Orig 1.5 has a lot of quick bullets and a lot of macrododging, but you have trouble when you get to Larsa which has significantly tighter patterns than the rest of the game. Jitterbug is all micrododges and slow bullets and Tyrannosatan likes to crowd the screen quite a bit. I don't really know what to tell you as far as how to improve this, it's just something that sort of comes with a lot of playing. It clicked for me a while back after a bunch of Dai Ou Jou and allowed me to finally clear DDP and play much more confidently overall.

But yeah I dunno, at least typing up this response gave me something to do at work. Today has been pretty dead.

I personally think Dodonpachi is WAAAAAAAY harder than Futari 1.5 original.

Definitely going to agree with this. I might not use that many "a"s but I think it's at least markedly more challenging.

[dunpeal2064]

Really? Damn, I don't know what it is, maybe the amount of bombs, but I can get much further in DDP, and I feel like I've put much less time into it. I don't know stages 5 or 6 at all, but in the last 2 runs I got to the last boss and almost killed him, and that was dying with bombs in stock.

Then again, I score while playing Futari, just because its so intuitive. This might be making my clear harder, since I don't score well in DDP. Also, I was only talking about a first loop clear, of course.

If you guys think its that much easier, maybe I should upload some Futari runs and see what I'm doing that is holding myself back.

Difference in scores: DDP: 29mil, stage 6 boss
MF1.5O: 162mil, Larsa

So is the scoring whats making Futari much harder for me? Or do both scores suck?

[Deca]

So is the scoring whats making Futari much harder for me? Or do both scores suck?

Well I can confidently say that your DDP score is abysmal because it's about the same as my average

If you're really going all out with the pointblanking in Futari then you're definitely making it a lot more difficult for yourself. Try running through without focusing on score at all (easier said than done, I know) and see how you do.

[dunpeal2064]

I'll give that a try. I can ignore scoring in pretty much any game but Futari. It just feels so intuitive in every mode. However, I really want to get some clears under my belt, instead of just learning stage 1-3 scoring in every game I have

Glad someone else is dead bored at work. Ha ha. Its been slow as hell today here too.

[Illyrian]

If I might say, and I'm not suggesting I'm some sort of expert, but I've always had the most fun with futari just trying to score hard on the first two levels to make sure I pick up the first extend as quickly as possible, and from stage 3 on I try to sit midscreen and pointblank when possible. When I got my clear of Futari 1.5 I scored just under 200 million doing this and I think it strikes a nice balance.

Futari you can just play and score at least okay just by virtue of how simple and intuitive the scoring system is.

Dodonpachi's silly rectangle hitbox doesn't help either, I think. You play futari or really anything else from the last 9 years and then try dodonpachi and I think it's a jarring experience.

[Deca]

Dodonpachi's silly rectangle hitbox doesn't help either, I think. You play futari or really anything else from the last 9 years and then try dodonpachi and I think it's a jarring experience.

Personally I find adjusting to micrododges with DOJ hitboxes to be much more awkward for me. Feels like they're set much further back than I'm used to them being in anything, like I'm playing as Tag-T or something

[Ed Oscuro]

ok guize

this thread is the BIG thread of Shmup grievances,
not
the BIG thread of hey everybody let's all waltz with people who don't care about the vidyas

Shootin' games is something we all have to decide for ourselves whether we enjoy them or don't like them, trying to learn somebody on 'em is all wasted effort. And for the record I could put in however many hours and not beat those games either...they just don't click for me. I don't lose sleep at night over this and I don't post about it because nobody should care.

Back on the actual topic then:

MAME Plus! proves to be worthless again - the Toggle Autofire is not working. I've tried multiple keymaps and tried clearing out other keys to make sure there's no conflict. No worky. I've confirmed I can remap Pause, but Toggle Autofire is no good. Guess I'll have to look for a new version and pray.