The future of Cave

[third_strike]

Noobs thinking about DFK 1.5:
1- "DFK 1.5 is pretty easy"
2- "In DFK 1.5 bullet cancel is easy"
3- "Auto bomb in DFK 1.5 sucks"

But:
1- If the game is easy then try no miss no, bomb and no hyper the whole first loop.
2- Wrong, a proper bullet cancel is indeed the hardest part in stage, there is so much enemies in each stage then full chain is not hard.
3- And you getting hit too much times sucks even more.

This post had credibility until you tried to justify the autobomb.

Then again.
Auto bomb is nothing. There only one way of trigger auto bomb and it is get hit (the ships in the game will not spam bombs when you are in a danger situation don't letting you dodge). If you can get the 1-ALL after use 10 auto bombs, I sorry but this game is not easy to you. Play more reduce the auto bombs to minimum before call the game easy.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Personally Ive never really had a problem with autobomb in shooters. Its probably due to the fact I suck and Blue Wish Resurrection was the first shmup I played seriously.

[Age of Kings]

Auto bomb is nothing. There only one way of trigger auto bomb and it is get hit

But really when you get hit your chain is gone and you are fucked. What does it even matter if there is an autobomb or not? And if it is an issue, what's preventing you from playing Power?

Thank you for these posts. I really never got the whining about autobomb for these reasons...just suck it up and get better at the game, then you don't worry about autobomb.

[Skykid]

This post had credibility until you tried to justify the autobomb.

Then again.
Auto bomb is nothing. There only one way of trigger auto bomb and it is get hit (the ships in the game will not spam bombs when you are in a danger situation don't letting you dodge). If you can get the 1-ALL after use 10 auto bombs, I sorry but this game is not easy to you. Play more reduce the auto bombs to minimum before call the game easy.

I'm not one of the people who said the game was easy. I look at DFK from a scoring perspective, in which case it's hard.

But that doesn't change the fact I think the game would have been hugely improved by not having the autobomb. I honestly think the old fashioned get-hit-you-die setup would have been great for DFK. Perhaps it could have been bomb generous, similar to Dodonpachi, to compensate for all the flak. Regardless, I can't see the pros in the autobomb - it's just been stuck on there to balance the game out for novices who get hit every 5 minutes.

[Zengeku3]

Any game is probably hard from a scoring perspective since your competition isn't against the game any longer but against other players. Its a lot easier to 1cc something than 1cc something with the best score in the world.

[third_strike]

I look at DFK from a scoring perspective, in which case it's hard.

Say me what is hard in DFK 1.5 score system?

And:

I can't see the pros in the autobomb

pretty neat to be able to use 110% of your dodging skill since when you don't have to worry about dying with bombs in stock, you can sometimes pull off insane dodges that you normally wouldn't dare to attempt.

With auto bomb you can train your dodge skills without to much concerns about a heavy punishment like lose the credit (this is very neat if is playing in a local arcade).

[Zengeku3]

I look at DFK from a scoring perspective, in which case it's hard.

Say me what is hard in DFK 1.5 score system?

Chaining things perfectly maybe. On top of an otherwise flawless performance. Haven't tried it but it sounds pretty hard.

With auto bomb you can train your dodge skills without to much concerns about a heavy punishment like lose the credit (this is very neat if is playing in a local arcade).

Yeah, there is that too.

[third_strike]

Any game is probably hard from a scoring perspective since your competition isn't against the game any longer but against other players. Its a lot easier to 1cc something than 1cc something with the best score in the world.

You are a poet!

Haven't tried it ...

You need try it, pretty sure which you will like since the game is a vertical bullet hell with two instantly switchable movement speeds and autofire enabled by defaults.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

With auto bomb you can train your dodge skills without to much concerns about a heavy punishment like lose the credit (this is very neat if is playing in a local arcade).

While I dont play in an arcade I do agree with this, thats why I tend to recommend shmups that have it (or someone similar) to genre noobs.

[Zengeku3]

Haven't tried it ...

You need try it, pretty sure which you will like since the game is a vertical bullet hell with two instantly switchable movement speeds and autofire enabled by defaults.

Heh, yeah it certainly seems to fit my 'rules' doesn't it? Well, the only reason I haven't played DFK yet is because I haven't had the opportunity. I don't own a Japanese 360, I don't have access to any arcades let alone one that has this game and the game is not emulatable. Yet anyway. (Probably won't be for a long time to come either.) Nor do I want to buy an expensive PCB to play it on.

However, I look greatly forward to the PAL release of the game. That's actually the reason I decided to screw my plans for getting a Jbox. The game looks pretty damn good and I've seen plenty of replays. The soundtrack is my favorite Cave soundtrack and the visuals are very appealing.

Okay, I'm lying if I say I have never played it before. I tried it once in a japanese arcade and cleared it on 4 credits.
Well... yeah. I didn't know that lasers would break enemy lasers nor did I know about hypers so...

[Mills]

Future of CAVE right here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hAogqaeQNB8

[kevenz]

Nope the future of Cave is this :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65RQpOxpcgI&

[TrevHead (TVR)]

maybe there is more 360 digi dl games on the way http://www.siliconera.com/2011/11/02/di ... -releases/

[Estebang]

Ketsui would seem like a prime candidate for a GoD release--it's not region-free, and considering its antiquated graphics, there's close to zero chance of a localization.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

Ketsui would seem like a prime candidate for a GoD release--it's not region-free, and considering its antiquated graphics, there's close to zero chance of a localization.

I agree, also maybe Futari and Galuda 2 as they are 2 of their best games this gen and there are 360 owners who still havnt bought it

[Estebang]

My view on things is that once a game's been made region-free or localized somewhere, Cave considers all gaijin everywhere to be satisfied, and won't pursue localization work with that game any further. The only exception to this has been RSG's release of Deathsmiles, and that came very late.

[Sumez]

Regardless, I can't see the pros in the autobomb - it's just been stuck on there to balance the game out for novices who get hit every 5 minutes.

I don't really see the autobomb as a problem for anyone who plays the game properly, so the points are valid.
However I don't see how the autobombs help novices at all. It just makes it easier to slack at the game while playing for survival, making the game less fun if you aren't already really good at it. If they put in for the novices, that was a really dumb move.
I also think it makes it harder for people to get better at the game, since it seems like you can take more hits before dying, meaning people will be less pushed to take the game "seriously" and be less able concentrate solely on dodging the bullets.

[Skykid]

If they put in for the novices, that was a really dumb move.

"To balance the game out for the novices."

Cave's leaning toward more palatable games for the average player is nothing new, so the autobomb is a way of saying: "all you experts avoid getting hit, all you novices don't worry about it if you do."
If you can think of a better reason for its existence I'm all for hearing it.

The biggest pain in the ass with autobomb is waiting for someone in the arcade to finish their credit.

[StarCreator]

Ketsui would seem like a prime candidate for a GoD release--it's not region-free, and considering its antiquated graphics, there's close to zero chance of a localization.

Except that's one of the 5pb licensed ports, making the situation of bringing it over significantly more complicated since the port isn't under CAVE's direct control.

[zlk]

I cannot understand why people would complain about the autobomb in DDPDFK. If you are that good, you never get hit and the autobomb doesn't matter. If you aren't that good, you should spend your time practicing more and less time complaining.

[Teufel_in_Blau]

I think EOJ explained the problem with the autobomb pretty nice in his review of DFK.

As for complaints, my biggest one is that they really should have included an in-game reset command as found in Pink Sweets. Restarting a failed Bomb or Strong-style run is an unnecessary chore as you have to autobomb away all your bombs before you can suicide. Also, making the autobomb optional, perhaps even just in the dip switches, would have been a nice option to have.

Of course this not apply to the 360 version. I liked autobomb as a beginner in Blue Wish or Mushi Arange. It made the game much easier. It's like a novice-mode lite.

[dunpeal2064]

I think EOJ explained the problem with the autobomb pretty nice in his review of DFK.

As for complaints, my biggest one is that they really should have included an in-game reset command as found in Pink Sweets. Restarting a failed Bomb or Strong-style run is an unnecessary chore as you have to autobomb away all your bombs before you can suicide. Also, making the autobomb optional, perhaps even just in the dip switches, would have been a nice option to have.

Of course this not apply to the 360 version. I liked autobomb as a beginner in Blue Wish or Mushi Arange. It made the game much easier. It's like a novice-mode lite.

Futari Ultra Novice is usually what I show someone who wants to try a shmup but never has. Makes them feel epic, but its pretty damn managable, even if you are learning while you play.

Either that or DFK, but then I usually go for BL. Then they can still go Novice and Auto-bomb, but with a much better soundtrack

[Sumez]

Cave's leaning toward more palatable games for the average player is nothing new, so the autobomb is a way of saying: "all you experts avoid getting hit, all you novices don't worry about it if you do."
If you can think of a better reason for its existence I'm all for hearing it.

I can't! I'm not exactly defending it!
I think Cave leaning towards "the average player" is actually a good idea, as long as they still leave in plenty of complex scoring tricks for the experts to go for.
I think they did that relatively well with DS. An "it's ok to get hit" mechanism is pretty much the cheapest way you can do it, and not a good idea, IMO.

[TrevHead (TVR)]

However I don't see how the autobombs help novices at all. It just makes it easier to slack at the game while playing for survival, making the game less fun if you aren't already really good at it. If they put in for the novices, that was a really dumb move.

Imo the autobomb is great for noobs it allows them to stay in the game without losing their rhythm, and makes spamming the bomb button, credit restart redundant so they can just get on with dodging those bullets

[Estebang]

Guwange Blue is definitely the best example of "novice-mode lite" in a Cave game. It's easier, but not to the point where you'll breeze to a 1CC right away, and all strategies of the standard version still apply.

Mushi Futari BL seemed like it was going for the same thing, but it's just far too easy.

[Strider77]

Mushi Futari BL seemed like it was going for the same thing, but it's just far too easy.

Must not be playing god mode.... hard mode in other words. Or for score in any of the other modes.

[Estebang]

Futari BL is the only shmup I've 1CCed on my first try. (No, I wasn't on God.)

[Strider77]

There you go.... please tell me it wasn't original mode that you 1CCed.

I'll never get why folks who complain about certain cave titles being to easy.... always choose the easiest mode. Same with DFK, no one plays power mode but most run straight to strong then bitch about the difficulty and auto bombing.

[BPzeBanshee]

There you go.... please tell me it wasn't original mode that you 1CCed.

I'll never get why folks who complain about certain cave titles being to easy.... always choose the easiest mode. Same with DFK, no one plays power mode but most run straight to strong then bitch about the difficulty and auto bombing.

Thank you, you said my feelings perfectly in a single sentence.

Nothing wrong with an easy clear if there's an option for it - but if you took the easy way out you can't say it's an easy game.

[Drachenherz]

Futari BL is the only shmup I've 1CCed on my first try. (No, I wasn't on God.)

How did you play BL original? I managed to 1cc BL Original ONCE, and then never again...

Because I can't stop playing for score. As soon as you jack up the gem count and point blank those buggers like a maniac, difficulty definitely increases.

Hmm... Althoug it is against my principles, I have to try to 1cc it again, leaving the gem-counter as low as possible. Because at my current playstyle of BL, I reach Stage 5 regularly, but it's difficult to even get to larsa, yet alone beat her.