Ninja Gaiden [NES] + R2RKMF: Scrolling Action Monogatari

[__SKYe]

Alright, managed to finish Gomola Speed.
I say finish, because it took me the equivalent to about 7~8 continues to beat it.
There's 25 stages total, and trust me, from about stage 18~19, shit gets serious. Pretty serious indeed.

After playing it fully, here's my more refined opinion.

The need for pixel perfect positioning when trying to go through a narrow opening gets aggravating later on.
This is because those narrow openings are usually placed in locations where there are enemies all around, and if you fail to get into them for too long, you risk losing a life. Again, it's nowhere near game breaking, but a little smoothing on this aspect by the developers would have helped quite a bit.

The game also does have a knack for positioning enemies close to narrow entrances/passages, and in several cases (especially later on) it gets pretty though.

Also later on, one needs to be especially careful of eating enemies. As I said before, if you eat them, they will respawn tougher, and they will eat the bombs, so if it happens to be a place that you'll have to cruise by again, you might be in trouble. This may spell trouble, because having the standard enemies get stuck to the bombs can be very helpful.
In several situations, I found that it was much better to just stun them long enough for me to do my business, and hightail it out of their way. There's definitely a risk/reward thing here (especially if you're playing for score).

Also figured out the scoring. Every thing you encircle (enemies and pellets) have a base point value (usually around 1000 points) and 2 multipliers. One of them is based on how many items you encircle at once. The default is x1, if you encircle two things at once it is x4, and if three are encircled you get x6 (couldn't get anything besides that).
The other is based on how many body pieces you have when you encircle things.
If you have all the body parts in the level, the multiplier is x1. Then for every body piece floating around (that you don't have) the multiplier is incremented by 1. The maximum I got was x6 (5 body pieces less than total).

I'm still not quite sure about how the multiple exits afect the game, but I think it may have something to do with the number of enemies. Can't say for sure though.

I said before that after you use up all the continues (there're 3 each time you start), you get a password that you can use to return to that level. On the last 5 levels (from level 20 onwards), there's no password, so you need to finish them in 3 continues.

I don't wanna spoil the actual levels and bosses for you, so I won't comment on those.

Overall, it's a great game, and I'm definitely interested to go for the 1CC.

EDIT: As a comparison, the encircling mechanic is like what it would be playing Pokemon Rangers with a D-Pad.

[BIL]

BIL, your signature picture is cursed, by the way. when it is late at night and all i have for light in the room is the laptop, if it is in my view as i'm reading any text on the screen, it will create an after-image of blue as my eyes dart to the right to continue reading text. this leaves the impression that exactly to the right of that image, there is another image that is the exact same sized, perfectly transparent, but occasionally flashing a bright blue. it's fucking spooky, and i thought you had put a flashing GIF with a very long loop involving random flashing next to it to fuck with people.

Oh HECK NO, that sounds like A FUCKEN GHOST 3: Changing it for now. ;3

[Squire Grooktook]

I love that GB Dracula 2 vista as well. Hardcore stuff.

[BIL]

I know, such a rad backdrop! Like the OST, it's one of the most inspired things from anywhere in the series imo.

Buildings from Rubble Saver, and the ship is actually the Kamui but conveniently passes for both a Vic Viper and R-Gray. The collective sig is a visual metaphor with a cunning double meaning! Some may think STGs have flatlined... but the reality is, just like in the past, they'll continue onward long after the current gaming world has died. ;3

What I'm saying is, no wonder the fucking thing was haunted! :O Actually no what I'm saying is

Fuck the haters! fuck the scrubs!

[Sumez]

Wow so many new posts. Did anything interesting happen on the last two pages that I need to know?

Glad to hear __SKYe likes Gomola Speed. Bought it on a whim some years ago because it was cheap and looked unique (probably on of the last PCE games I've bought, too). But had one game and it just wasn't what I had expected. Will be sure to give it another chance now.

Also damn do I love X5's boss theme though. Intense and perturbing.

Just too bad the game is awful.
I know X6 gets most of the hate, but on a personal level I really hate X5 the most for being the one game to end a winning streak of nothing but great Mega Man games (I even like 8 and R&F), leaving a series that would never be able to recoup.

[BIL]

Wow so many new posts. Did anything interesting happen on the last two pages that I need to know?

Yes - some cunt gave you shit about Gimmick, but I stomped him so bad, HE SCREAM FOR HELP and close his account. >:[

I'm gonna keep calling Yumetaro "Mr. Gimmick".

WTF I HATE YOU SUMEZ 凸(｀ω´メ)凸

[__SKYe]

Glad to hear __SKYe likes Gomola Speed. Bought it on a whim some years ago because it was cheap and looked unique (probably on of the last PCE games I've bought, too). But had one game and it just wasn't what I had expected. Will be sure to give it another chance now.

I admit it is somewhat of an esoteric game, but it is a good game indeed.
Perhaps the weirdest part of it is the encircling mechanic (although, of course, it is what defines this game), and having to do it with a D-Pad.

I guess that playing this with an analog stick (or an arcade stick) would be easier/more intuitive, but personally, I'm not a fan of analog sticks (the gamepad ones, that is), so, for me, D-Pad all the way.
Of course, if you're playing in the original hardware, with the standard controller, D-Pad is also the only way to go.

But really, it's quite fun when you get past the initial steps.

[BIL]

Interest piqued for sure, think I'll finally pick up a copy soon. It's been on my radar for ages, with lots of praise from folks I trust, and I like what little I previewed - but yours is the first review I've seen that mentions the later stages. Sounds good.

I always remember the early BGMs, they're surprisingly quite haunting in their synth-pop way.

[Squire Grooktook]

and the ship is actually the Kamui but conveniently passes for both a Vic Viper and R-Gray. The collective sig is a visual metaphor with a cunning double meaning!

The Hero with a thousand faces. Very Campbell-esque.

[kitten]

Perhaps the weirdest part of it is the encircling mechanic (although, of course, it is what defines this game), and having to do it with a D-Pad.

you were playing on an emulator, right? the pce controller actually has a pretty damn good d-pad for circular movement, which is part of why i think it's a great system for shooters. not sure what you were using, but i'm expecting this to play pretty decently well with an authentic controller.

Oh HECK NO, that sounds like A FUCKEN GHOST 3: Changing it for now. ;3

i was able to sleep easy, since you exorcised that spooky ghost from your sig.

when copying this quoted portion over to this window (so that i may commit the space age, futuristic act of replying to two people in one post), i was agog for a good 5 or so seconds at why the word "TURDUCKEN" popped up in capital letters while i was trying to right click and hit "copy," until i figured out it was just the spellchecker-

Spoiler

what is the computer trying to tell me??


ALSO, going back a couple pages:

has anyone else even played (hiho densetsu) chris' adventure? i had fun with it and it was dirt cheap so i've got a copy on the way. going to save a no miss clear for then (already did a 1cc), as bad as i wanted to do it on my burned copy, yesterday morning. it's not a good action platformer, but imho it's solid, and i can't help but be charmed by its slightly rough, grainy exterior. i have a fondness for games like these. had a friend who play it, and she just berated me for it being bad

[__SKYe]

you were playing on an emulator, right? the pce controller actually has a pretty damn good d-pad for circular movement, which is part of why i think it's a great system for shooters. not sure what you were using, but i'm expecting this to play pretty decently well with an authentic controller.

Yes, I played in an emulator.
It's not that the game is harder when playing with a D-Pad, it's just that it feels slightly weird when doing tiny circular motions on it. It's definitely doable though, it just takes practice.
Don't know about the PC-Engine controller though, I've never used/touched/owned one.

For the majority of gaming (sans STGs and anything requiring a mouse+keyboard combo) I use my dandy PsOne Dualshock (model SCPH-110, if it is of interest).
Also used to use a PS3 Dualshock 3, but I found that I prefer the heavier weight of the PsOne gamepad, and also the feel of the digital buttons (the Cross, Square, Triangle, Circle buttons are analog in the PS3 pad, and they have a slightly softer feeling).
The analog sticks on the PsOne pad are also a little stiffer, which, again, I prefer to the PS3 pad (though of course I never use them ).

For me, the only upside of the PS3 pad, is the wireless connection, but I'm fine with the PsOne's cord.

[kitten]

Don't know about the PC-Engine controller though, I've never used/touched/owned one.

here's an image of a whole goddamn bunch of pce controllers. the one i have is the one that comes with the duo-r, which is in the upper right, one down from the upper most right. that's the basic design - though the colors are slightly different for ones that came with older models (seen immediately above it). i also have a multitap and a couple of those bottom middle "blaster" controllers on the way, so i can play bomberman 94 w/ peeps. hope those controllers aren't shit, they certainly look a bit cheap. kinda want to get one of those 6-buttons with individual turbo settings so i can play games that require button combinations and sometimes-not-always-just-rapid-fire with better proficiency (like cotton, goddamn i hate cotton's control set-up).

Spoiler

the d-pad is like. i don't know how to describe it, exactly. it almost feels difficult to push it in one of the four cardinal directions if you're consciously thinking about it while holding the controller - there's not really that satisfying "i'm definitely pushing one of these four directions" bit of feedback you tend to get from something comparable, like the snes or nes controller. this led me to worries it would be a bit obnoxious to handle like the x360 d-pad. however, while playing, i've never noticed that as a problem, and the controller operates pretty goddamn flawlessly for pulling off diagonals when i want to. i honestly believe this might be one of the best d-pads for shooters because of the smooth, easy transitions in and out of diagonals while lacking that shitty, x360 sponginess or the game gear's riotously bad penchant for accidentally registering diagonal input when you did not fucking push that direction. not a fighting game fan, so i can't comment on how it would work on a fighter, though (i imagine the best d-pad for that will forever be the neo geo pocket's wonderful stickpad).

during dead space in shooters, i tend to twitch around in circles and stuff. first and foremost, i probably do this because it looks goofy and it occupies my time. i especially love doing it in r-type - if you get really good at moving in weird circles (esp in arc version, but i believe pce version does this as well), you can actually makes your bit pieces become temporarily WAY the fuck unaligned from your ship, almost like you're slinging them around like a flail (please, please god, someone else in the thread tell me they do this). BUT SECONDLY, this lets me get acquainted with the subtleties of movement unique to that particular shooter and how it will move. i have concentration issues, so it helps keep me focused and acts as a reminder for this game moves in case i somehow space out and forget. if i'm playing modern games, i sometimes freeze up and forget what buttons do heck, this even occasionally happens on older games. i will - fully out loud - say "what button is dodge???" and baffle my roommate. she is always deeply confused as to how i can be so good at games as to do the runs i do and still make ridiculous slip-ups like this. imo, it's exactly because i'm reckless and don't give a shit that i'm able to learn quickly.

For the majority of gaming (sans STGs and anything requiring a mouse+keyboard combo) I use my dandy PsOne Dualshock (model SCPH-110, if it is of interest).
Also used to use a PS3 Dualshock 3, but I found that I prefer the heavier weight of the PsOne gamepad, and also the feel of the digital buttons (the Cross, Square, Triangle, Circle buttons are analog in the PS3 pad, and they have a slightly softer feeling).
The analog sticks on the PsOne pad are also a little stiffer, which, again, I prefer to the PS3 pad (though of course I never use them ).

For me, the only upside of the PS3 pad, is the wireless connection, but I'm fine with the PsOne's cord.

i really tend to hate the ps d-pad up until the most recent one on the dualshock 4! flagrant garbage, shreds my finger, reliable diagonals feels like murder. i swear the only reason i don't play shin contra more often is having to put up with that shit (at least i 100% s-ranked it...). i have some bizarre fondness for the original ps1 controller before the addition of the dual shock sticks, though. iknow it's essentially the same d-pad design all the way from there up to ps3, but i swear there is something about how they're manufactured that makes them a little less stiff and uncomfortable. i don't have a ps saturn pad (bawww), so that's as nice a d-pad as i tend to get on that console plus i like how they are plain grey, lightweight, and have a fun, simple shape. they look like an older controller and remind me of that innocent, childish enthusiasm i took to the playstation for when i was much younger. ah, mega man legends~ <3

an aside: any other legends fans in the thread might want to get their on the first-ever-actually-good volnutt figure that's coming out by sentinel - their 4inch-nel line is pt good imho. also, damn, i'd get that ryoma figure if they'd ever reprint black getter, which i missed! fuck!

edit: oh fuck! they did re-release that black getter! months ago! agghhh there's some still in stock RIP me

order placed! fuck yes! atsuku nare yume mita ashita o!!!

[Obscura]

There's also the matter that it varies from person to person.

I don't consider the learning process involved in a few well regarded stg's scoring mechanisms to be fun at all. It would never the less be arrogant and unemphatic of me to declare the games to be kusoge (and go around spreading that misinformation along with factually incorrect statements about their optimal learning process and playstyle, mechanics, depth, etc. *cough* to sentimental fans as well potentially unassuming newcomers) just because the process, actions, and playstyle it involves doesn't align with my tastes.

Instead I do it as an obvious, tongue in cheek joke. Fuck Cave.

If a shmup was garbage to play outside of optimal superplayer-level play, it would indeed be kusoge, and would probably make roughly zero money at an arcade ever. People wouldn't give the game a second quarter after the first one was garbage.

Judging games by "optimal play" is retarded for another reason -- at that point, you're judging what the player brings to the game moreso than the game itself. It's a common refrain in the Doom community that a skilled player can make a shitty map fun for himself. Pushing almost any game or map to its absolute limit can be "fun", regardless of whether the thing in question is any good, but at that point, you're not judging the game -- you're judging "is it fun to push a thing, no matter what it is, as far as it can go?".

[kitten]

mother fuck!!! arrggghhh!! it would figure that as soon as i recall the snes power rangers games are by natsume and might actually be quite good, of course the AVGN goes and makes a video. i really wanted to get these and analyze if their design really feels like proto-TNWA. so much for getting the snes movie game for a reasonable price! or the fighting game, which, to be fair, i care less about but was still interested in. that man's bizarrely commanding influence is a grim reaper for getting these games at a price that isn't absurd.

i have nothing against the dude, for the record. not exactly a top tier entertainer, but he's got a lot of energy and some charmingly well-mannered enthusiasm when he's not in his "nerd" persona (hate his stupid co-host that hijacked his everything, tho). it's just, man, a loooot of collectors watch his shit and he was the big source of droves of games getting their prices hiked before other youtubers and speedrun events started becoming more of a purchasing influence. holy diver recently went (at least temporarily) bonkers after he did a video, even had effects reaching over to yahoo auctions japan. probably why i only grabbed a loose copy for cheap and counted myself lucky. damn, that box art is fine, though.

Judging games by "optimal play"

who is doing this? who is asking someone to do this? bil just said you can't play the game well, not that you couldn't play optimally. i don't think he said he could play optimally, either, just that the game had a strict learning curve.

for the record, i'm not saying you're exempt from a right to criticize the game, but i feel acknowledgement you're not good enough is a pretty important part of your evaluation. alien soldier does not require superplayer skills, imho.

[BIL]

I'm honestly not sure whether he's even referring to Alien Soldier there, or just taking Squire very literally on the concept of an STG that's good at optimal level and shit otherwise. Which, yeah, wouldn't be a very good STG, but I don't think that was Squire's point. 3: Anyway, do clarify Obscura. I enjoy your impetuous style and ardent defending of outcast kusoges, some of which I like myself! But I must draw a regretful line at abject shitposting. Edmond The Mad plots to return and usurp the thread at its first sign of weakness.

But for the sake of conversation, yes, you took the words out of my mouth kitten - casting a merely competent Alien Soldier player like me as someone approaching "superplayer" or even "optimal" level is abjectly clueless, much like a grasp of Alien Soldier basics invoking Punch-Out. Just sayin, don't worry about smacking into that performance ceiling when you're still bumbling around on the floor. 3;

[Sir Ilpalazzo]

Gigantic Army came up a page ago and reminded me of something. For anyone who's played the game extensively - do you feel like the score achievements (the "beat the game on x difficulty with y score") are obtainable with any weapon set and not just the assault rifle + beam cannon combo? I can believe that I just wasn't playing well enough to see what I was missing, but it felt like you really needed a lot of beam cannon ammo to blow through the bosses and hit the target times the game was asking for.

[BIL]

Interesting question - of people on this board, Kyper's definitely the one I'd ask. I think he's uploaded at least a few runs with other weapon sets.

[Obscura]

I'm honestly not sure whether he's even referring to Alien Soldier there, or just taking Squire very literally on the concept of an STG that's good at optimal level and shit otherwise. Which, yeah, wouldn't be a very good STG, but I don't think that was Squire's point. 3: Anyway, do clarify Obscura. I enjoy your impetuous style and ardent defending of outcast kusoges, some of which I like myself! But I must draw a regretful line at abject shitposting. Edmond The Mad plots to return and usurp the thread at its first sign of weakness.

But for the sake of conversation, yes, you took the words out of my mouth kitten - casting a merely competent Alien Soldier player like me as someone approaching "superplayer" or even "optimal" level is abjectly clueless, much like a grasp of Alien Soldier basics invoking Punch-Out. Just sayin, don't worry about smacking into that performance ceiling when you're still bumbling around on the floor. 3;

And if a game isn't fun when you're "bumbling around on the floor", it's shit. Don't get caught up on degrees -- being "good" at a thing is fun in itself, regardless of what the thing is (it makes your brain release the good chemicals). Saying that Alien Soldier is fun when you've been playing it for 30 hours isn't a judgement of the game -- it's a judgement of "performing well at almost anything is fun, no matter what that something is".

[kitten]

And if a game isn't fun when you're "bumbling around on the floor", it's shit.

i believe there is a sliiiight bit more nuance than this to perceiving a game's quality as good or not :O

Don't get caught up on degrees -- being "good" at a thing is fun in itself, regardless of what the thing is (it makes your brain release the good chemicals). Saying that Alien Soldier is fun when you've been playing it for 30 hours isn't a judgement of the game -- it's a judgement of "performing well at almost anything is fun, no matter what that something is".

i am pretty sure that when i played it nearly a decade ago, i began having fun with it on supereasy within an hour and had it beaten with probably just a couple. you're being more hyperbolic than bil at his most bil, and without a jovial self-awareness.

[Strider77]

And if a game isn't fun when you're "bumbling around on the floor", it's shit.

Maybe it's you...

[BIL]

And if a game isn't fun when you're "bumbling around on the floor", it's shit.

You misunderstand, again. I'm not talking casual off-the-cuff play - I'm talking absolute utter incompetence, the sort that'd lead a total ignoramus like you to unironically compare Punch Out and Alien Soldier's respective approaches to boss demolition. Bumbling is a euphemism, I was being polite. 3:

(should AS have included a proper, bumbler-friendly Easy difficulty with unlimited ammo, instant weapon switching and other amenities? yeah I think so. Actually if I'd been in charge, I'd have included that, made SUPEREASY the default, and SUPERHARD a step up. but this is obviously not a game overly concerned with amenity. YMMV! I find it endearing)

Don't get caught up on degrees -- being "good" at a thing is fun in itself, regardless of what the thing is (it makes your brain release the good chemicals).

Yes, and you're not good at this particular thing. If a toddler picks up an expensive guitar and kind of paws and bats at the strings producing vague clunking noises, I'm sure he may well be having a whale of a time. He's still a shit player, bless his heart. Nobody in their right mind is going to humour his advice on the finer points of the instrument, or why you're better off taking up the triangle instead.

Saying that Alien Soldier is fun when you've been playing it for 30 hours isn't a judgement of the game -- it's a judgement of "performing well at almost anything is fun, no matter what that something is".

Obscura if I ever write "just shoot me" or "I'd suck a dick for that," check up with me first pls.

I can't remember how many hours it took to clear AS, when I first played it seriously a couple years ago... but as I've said many times since (including the previous page), it's no great survival challenge. Overrated by clueless scrubs. What I definitely remember is the steady process of learning a good weapon upgrade route, while getting comfier with the controls and bullet cancelling, the resulting excess HP allowing more Phoenixes, which meant more ammo, which meant more pace, which... etc. The gradual sighting and grasping of a furiously crackling feedback loop. One that according to you was not carefully calibrated by the designers, but generated with the sheer force of my mind.

And so we get this gem, quoting again for emphasis:

isn't a judgement of the game -- it's a judgement of "performing well at almost anything is fun, no matter what that something is".

Yeah lmao the game's stage, boss and mechanical designs just kinda materialise out of thin air after X amount of hours, lol. It's amazing, like I coded it myself!

Lolno. This isn't some shitty DOOM map. It's not the freeform chaos of a Robotron, either. Lose the ego and the blinders, FFS. That you'd praise Super Shinobi and condemn AS when they work on exactly the same design philosophy (learn the course, learn the character, take your lumps and give them back a thousandfold) tells me this is more about posturing than any serious rationale. I suppose adept TSS play, hard-won after a brutally stiff initial clear, isn't some strange player-generated phenomenon, right? 3:

[Obscura]

Yes, and you're not good at this particular thing. If a toddler picks up an expensive guitar and kind of paws and bats at the strings producing vague clunking noises, I'm sure he may well be having a whale of a time. He's still a shit player, bless his heart. Nobody in their right mind is going to humour his advice on the finer points of the instrument, or why you're better off taking up the triangle instead.

And I never claimed I was good at Alien Soldier. So what? There's tons of games out there (such as literally every successful arcade game ever) that are fun to play when you're shit at them. The fact that a game in an arcade derived genre is only fun when you're good -- and being at good any game is fun in itself, no matter how shit the game -- tells us that it's probably a shit game.

Obscura if I ever write "just shoot me" or "I'd suck a dick for that," check up with me first pls.

I can't remember how many hours it took to clear AS, when I first played it seriously a couple years ago... but as I've said many times since (including the previous page), it's no great survival challenge. Overrated by clueless scrubs. What I definitely remember is the steady process of learning a good weapon upgrade route, while getting comfier with the controls and bullet cancelling, the resulting excess HP allowing more Phoenixes, which meant more ammo, which meant more pace, which... etc. The gradual sighting and grasping of a furiously crackling feedback loop. One that according to you was not carefully calibrated by the designers, but generated with the sheer force of my mind.

This feedback loop is in literally every game ever that has resources of any sort and a reasonably long cycle-time. Again, if I'm playing a garbage Doom map -- let's take Valley of Echoes redux as an example, since I actually did record a demo on that shitty map -- then, as I get more comfortable with the layout, item placement, etc., I end up with more health and ammo, which lets me play more aggressively, which makes it easier to get a handle on the layout and create a better route, which gives me more health and ammo, which lets me play more aggressively on and on.

WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING EXISTS IN MILLIONS OF SHITTY GAMES. IT IS NOT UNIQUE TO ALIEN SOLDIER.

Lolno. This isn't some shitty DOOM map. It's not the freeform chaos of a Robotron, either. Lose the ego and the blinders, FFS. That you'd praise Super Shinobi and condemn AS when they work on exactly the same design philosophy (learn the course, learn the character, take your lumps and give them back a thousandfold) tells me this is more about posturing than any serious rationale. I suppose adept TSS play, hard-won after a brutally stiff initial clear, isn't some strange player-generated phenomenon, right? 3:

The difference is that TSS's awkward and tricky placements are fun to fight your way through when you're still at the "struggle and fight my way through" stage of the game. AS's "lol phoenix teleport on every boss tell" isn't ever fun.

[kitten]

And I never claimed I was good at Alien Soldier. So what?

so maybe you don't have a meaningful evaluation on your claims of it being low quality. that's all. it's not a terrible position to be in. i already described my fairly recent experience with going back to it and not immediately enjoying it again, but i did not accuse it of being poorly made/shit/etc. bil is phrasing it in a way that may be digging into you, but he is completely on point.

There's tons of games out there (such as literally every successful arcade game ever) that are fun to play when you're shit at them. The fact that a game in an arcade derived genre is only fun when you're good -- and being at good any game is fun in itself, no matter how shit the game -- tells us that it's probably a shit game.

there are games that are miserable to play when you're good at them, too. i don't think that BIL has sipped from the chalice of intoxicating proficiency and become inebriated, however.

WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING EXISTS IN MILLIONS OF SHITTY GAMES. IT IS NOT UNIQUE TO ALIEN SOLDIER.

the suggestion is that alien soldier does it better, not that it simply has one. you are getting pretty mad and might want to take a step back, and i am saying this with genuine concern, not a condescending superiority. bil is definitely casually approaching this and you seem to be taking it very personally.

[BIL]

And I never claimed I was good at Alien Soldier. So what? There's tons of games out there (such as literally every successful arcade game ever) that are fun to play when you're shit at them. The fact that a game in an arcade derived genre is only fun when you're good -- and being at good any game is fun in itself, no matter how shit the game -- tells us that it's probably a shit game.

Well, have fun being shit, I guess. Must be liberating. Everything good is fun when you're shit at it, and if you need to get good at something to enjoy it, it was shit anyway. But it'll still be fun, regardless, because you have become good at it. Have I got all this right? BRB, making a TimeCop superplay.

You've got to be kidding me - you're seriously going with this sort of scorched-earth argument? For what, to save face because your shitpost about AS dried up and blew away in a mild gust of correction? Bad news - it's looking more like a self-immolation from here, as far as your game design curmudgeon shtick goes. 3; (I like the use of "probably," though - shrewd!)

And again, we're not discussing an arcade game. Have fun straitjacketing every game ever according to its primordial origins - I'll evaluate stuff in the context it was designed for, thanks.

This feedback loop is in literally every game ever that has resources of any sort and a reasonably long cycle-time. Again, if I'm playing a garbage Doom map -- let's take Valley of Echoes redux as an example, since I actually did record a demo on that shitty map -- then, as I get more comfortable with the layout, item placement, etc., I end up with more health and ammo, which lets me play more aggressively, which makes it easier to get a handle on the layout and create a better route, which gives me more health and ammo, which lets me play more aggressively on and on.

WHAT YOU ARE DESCRIBING EXISTS IN MILLIONS OF SHITTY GAMES. IT IS NOT UNIQUE TO ALIEN SOLDIER.

For all I know, that map is an assault course masterpiece to rival Alien Soldier and Super Shinobi themselves. You do realise I'm left with no reason to put any stock in your evaluations of anything, right?

The difference is that TSS's awkward and tricky placements are fun to fight your way through when you're still at the "struggle and fight my way through" stage of the game.

Whoa, don't invoke deeply subjective things like "fun" with me bro - I am a little more selective than you.

And they're not "awkward and tricky," they're flat-out invisible. The game's loaded with chronic offscreen shooters and other hazards, which you'll need the advancing guard to deal with, which you won't have for more than seconds at a time, because one hit disables it while decimating your firepower. lmao @ comparing the experience to Castlevania of all things. Maybe if all of CV1 was the st6 clock tower eagles. Just the expert game design insights I'd expect from a kuso connoisseur.

AS's "lol phoenix teleport on every boss tell" isn't ever fun.

Jesus, you're like a dog with a bone on that particular bit of fanfiction, aren't you. Tell me all about your effective boss strategies that don't involve manual zoning, and dodging, and countering, and aiming. Clearly you are much more adept than me at this game after all, running rings around bosses and demolishing them* with Punch Out-grade antics. 3: *that is sarcasm! what I obviously mean is "running out of ammo, health and time and dying a slow miserable death before shitposting about the game being bad.

[kitten]

bil, you stupid bastard, you removed the funniest thing in your previous post with your last edit. please put (joke) and (metaphor) back in

[BIL]

Thought it was a bit petty tbh. >:3 We're already at the usual terminal phase of the Obscura Teaches Game Design cycle anyway, no need to make things more acrimonious than they typically are.

[Obscura]

Well, have fun being shit, I guess. Must be liberating. Everything good is fun when you're shit at it, and if you need to get good at something to enjoy it, it was shit anyway. But it'll still be fun, regardless, because you have become good at it. Have I got all this right? BRB, making a TimeCop superplay.

If you've already got the experience you need to play TimeCop well, yes, making that superplay will be fun. If you don't have that experience, I imagine that getting it will be like hammering rusty nails into your dick (or learning Alien Soldier, LOL!)

And again, we're not discussing an arcade game. Have fun straitjacketing every game ever according to its primordial origins - I'll evaluate stuff in the context it was designed for, thanks.

A 2D console action title that isn't structured like a Zelda or a Metroid and kicks you back to the start if you die on its default difficulty? It's arcade in every aspect aside from not needing to put quarters in the console.

For all I know, that map is an assault course masterpiece to rival Alien Soldier and Super Shinobi themselves. You do realise I'm left with no reason to put any stock in your evaluations of anything, right?

Given that you seem to evaluate almost everything by how many sprites and effects are on the screen at any given time, (ab)using the word "intensity" as a shortcut to mean that, you probably shouldn't put any stock in my evaluations. They'd be wasted on you.

Jesus, you're like a dog with a bone on that particular bit of fanfiction, aren't you. Tell me all about your effective boss strategies that don't involve manual zoning, and dodging, and countering, and aiming. Clearly you are much more adept than me at this game after all, running rings around bosses and demolishing them* with Punch Out-grade antics. 3: *that is sarcasm! what I obviously mean is "running out of ammo, health and time and dying a slow miserable death before shitposting about the game being bad.

Ok, try this -- get to the werewolf boss. When he pulls his arm back, telegraphing an attack, zero teleport through him. When you aren't teleporting, shoot him.

OMG SO MUCH MANUAL ZONING AND DODGING!!! Not.

[kitten]

OMG SO MUCH MANUAL ZONING AND DODGING!!! Not.

Spoiler

obscura please stop shitposting come on

[Squire Grooktook]

And to think, I actually felt guilty about dropping the mic. I should have known better.

And if a game isn't fun when you're "bumbling around on the floor", it's shit.

And you've shown yourself completely unable to tell when it's fun, completely unable to wrap your hand around basic concepts and mechanics, completely unable to empathise with people who have different tastes and thus find different playstyles fun, and arrogant enough to think you can unequivocally declare something to be shit with your rudimentary (or lackthereof) understanding of the games and -not only subjective, but- horribly inconsistent taste and philosophies.

As expected the majority of my post flew over your head (terrible reading comprehension skills, or the concepts therein fried your robot brain? Who knows), choosing to focus on (and misunderstand) my point about "optimal play" when I also mentioned the learning (starter) experience, as well as the subjective element involved with the general playstyle and processes of both.

Final word: You do not have the judgment, taste, or analytical skills necessary to talk with the authority or argue as vehemently as you constantly do. Add some humility and empathy to your posting style, realize that "if I don't like it, it's SHIT" is a fucking joke/meme -used to mock people with zero self awareness- and not a valid viewpoint, and maybe people here won't find you and your (awful) tastes as insufferably obnoxious.

I'll check back in on this thread when you're done. I got bored with trying to untangle the circular logic of trolls years ago, especially when, after all that effort, they simply change the subject or leave when they're shitposting is shut down. The fact that you don't realize you're one doesn't make it any different.

[Obscura]

Translation of the above post -- "If I say 'I'm right and you're wrong' enough times, maybe it'll actually make me right!"