Shmup Related Questions That Don't Deserve a Thread

[PC Engine Fan X!]

Is it possible to create a hacked eprom to have Free Play mode enabled for use on a DDP PCB setup? As it currently is, no such option exists...would be a nice option to have at your disposal.

PC Engine Fan X! ^_~

[Aquas]

I was playing a PCB of Ketsui and noticed I wasn't getting an invincibility period at the start of a stage. However, I do when I play in MAME and I hear this is the case for the port, too. Does anyone know what the deal is with this, exactly? I swear, though, that one of my friend's PCBs had the invincibility period present.

[oboewan42]

Revision difference maybe? There are three revisions of Ketsui, which you can identify based on the legal screen when you boot it up:

"2003/01/01 Master Ver"
"2003/01/01 Master Ver." (note the period)
"2003/01/01. Master Ver." (note the two periods)

The third is the newest.

I'm still looking for an answer to the Dogyuun question I posted a little above here - the only ROM I have says it's for the European region, and I can't find a way to change the settings in the dip switches.

Try "Game Configuration" on the tab menu in MAME, should be right underneath "Dip Switches".

(Incidentally, this works for a lot of games; the ones I can think of off the top of my head are most Toaplan games and DDPII Bee Storm. For Neo-Geo and ST-V games, the region change option - which also lets you play the AES homecart versions of Neo-Geo games - is under "BIOS Selection".)

[BareKnuckleRoo]

With respect to Darius Gaiden (arcade)...

* What are the version differences?

* What does rank affect?

[ACSeraph]

So a lot of time in Cave games you see these bullet patters that look 3D, like for example in Futari on the second boss there's a part where the squid shoots out lines of red bullets that are curved to look as though they are above your character. Is there some trick that can be used for dodging the more complex patterns that use these 3D looking bullets? Like for example can you actually go straight under them when they appear to be above you? This isn't just regarding Futari, lots of Cave games seem to have these.

[AntiFritz]

If the bullets are on screen then you can't touch them, regardless if they look "3d".

The only shmup I can think of that isn't like this is under defeat where you can go over bullets that haven't reached your altitude yet.

[BareKnuckleRoo]

So a lot of time in Cave games you see these bullet patters that look 3D, like for example in Futari on the second boss there's a part where the squid shoots out lines of red bullets that are curved to look as though they are above your character. Is there some trick that can be used for dodging the more complex patterns that use these 3D looking bullets?

I'm trying to see any attacks that look 3D... are you referring to shots where there are a lot of bullets layered on top of one another, so you can't see all of them as they appear? Larsa has a few nasty attacks like that on harder modes where bullet layering can make it tricky to see safe gaps to move through, it's just a matter of getting used to practicing and learning to react if you see another bullet at a different velocity move through a slower one.

If the bullets are on screen then you can't touch them, regardless if they look "3d".

There are some patterns that look like the bullets overlap, but your character can actually move through the bullet lines if you're lucky. Galuda 5-1 vs Seseri, the rotating lines attack fired by the pod can be dodged by sitting at the top of the screen and making a quick dodge through the line of shots as it approaches, it works surprisingly reliably, not sure if it's because there's really a lot of gaps to move through, but it looks like a fairly solid line, so I'm wondering if it only checks for collision every other frame or whatnot.

[AntiFritz]

I remember reading once that cave games only check for collisions every 2 frames but I don't know how accurate that is. Also bullets often have smaller hitboxes then the sprite suggests so often it looks like two bullets are overlapping but they aren't.

[pestro87]

I played some Garegga in shmupmame4 this morning and all of a sudden this strange graphical glitch happened shortly after I had bombed the flamingos. I managed to take a snapshot of it before flying completely past it. Is this an artifact caused by the emulation?

[ciox]

I played some Garegga in shmupmame4 this morning and all of a sudden this strange graphical glitch happened shortly after I had bombed the flamingos. I managed to take a snapshot of it before flying completely past it. Is this an artifact caused by the emulation?

I remember glitches happening with Garegga a lot if you load savestates, with some emulators anyway.
Also I think shmupmame4 doesn't have lagless drivers for Raizing games? It's only 3 and 3b that are good.

[trap15]

I've had that happen while playing in MAME too, once.

I think it involved me using savestates though.

[pestro87]

Thanks guys. That's odd, I didn't use any savestates while playing...

[Synnae]

Not sure if it will be okay to bump a thread that's already on the second page, but I don't see a reason for creating one just to ask this.

Well... I was playing Zanac x Zanac on the PSX earlier and noticed that the game becomes progressively harder as long as you keep collecting power ups.

So... I was thinking... would it be a good idea not collecting any power ups so the game will keep at a normal difficulty? Or would it be harder to 1cc it if you don't collect anything at all?

[AntiFritz]

Not sure if it will be okay to bump a thread that's already on the second page, but I don't see a reason for creating one just to ask this.

Well... I was playing Zanac x Zanac on the PSX earlier and noticed that the game becomes progressively harder as long as you keep collecting power ups.

So... I was thinking... would it be a good idea not collecting any power ups so the game will keep at a normal difficulty? Or would it be harder to 1cc it if you don't collect anything at all?

I'm not familiar with the game but if its similar to other games with rank, it's all about finding the right balance. So, collect some power ups but perhaps not powering up completely.

[BIL]

Not sure if it will be okay to bump a thread that's already on the second page, but I don't see a reason for creating one just to ask this.

Well... I was playing Zanac x Zanac on the PSX earlier and noticed that the game becomes progressively harder as long as you keep collecting power ups.

So... I was thinking... would it be a good idea not collecting any power ups so the game will keep at a normal difficulty? Or would it be harder to 1cc it if you don't collect anything at all?

Excellent, lengthy guide by Zach Keene here which explains the basics of Zanac Neo (and the three variants of original Zanac also included on the ZXZ disc).

[Skykid]

Not sure if it will be okay to bump a thread that's already on the second page, but I don't see a reason for creating one just to ask this.

That's the reason the thread exists.

Feel free to bump any thread, no matter how old, as long as it's relevant to the topic. Saves forum bandwidth, makes for a tidy home.

[CloudyMusic]

So a lot of time in Cave games you see these bullet patters that look 3D, like for example in Futari on the second boss there's a part where the squid shoots out lines of red bullets that are curved to look as though they are above your character. Is there some trick that can be used for dodging the more complex patterns that use these 3D looking bullets?

I'm trying to see any attacks that look 3D...

The one example that springs to mind in Futari is the stage 3 boss's second attack (2:48, 2:52). I feel like I've been able to scoot "under" the bullets as they fan out on occasion, but I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was just luck due to the hitbox size. I wouldn't count on any such thing being possible, at least.

[ACSeraph]

Not sure if it will be okay to bump a thread that's already on the second page, but I don't see a reason for creating one just to ask this.

That's the reason the thread exists.

Feel free to bump any thread, no matter how old, as long as it's relevant to the topic. Saves forum bandwidth, makes for a tidy home.

This thread ought to just be stickied...

[trap15]

I concur.

[Synnae]

I know this is a dumb question and I'm ashamed to ask... but I'm still kinda new to the shmup scene, and even after reading the unofficial shmup glossary and googling for it, I still could not find what the abbreviation "PCB" stands for (and I'm sure it's not Perfect Cherry Blossom).

It's just that I see a lot of people using this term here, so, what does it mean?

[Ghegs]

I know this is a dumb question and I'm ashamed to ask... but I'm still kinda new to the shmup scene, and even after reading the unofficial shmup glossary and googling for it, I still could not find what the abbreviation "PCB" stands for (and I'm sure it's not Perfect Cherry Blossom).

It's just that I see a lot of people using this term here, so, what does it mean?

They are Printed Circuit Boards, actual arcade games. You can see a whole bunch of them in this thread.

[Synnae]

They are Printed Circuit Boards, actual arcade games. You can see a whole bunch of them in this thread.

I see, thanks.

I have another question... I managed to 1cc Zanac Neo on easy, but there's one problem.

I used the ePSXe emulator for it, and even though I had it as the active window, my monitor would turn off every now and then, leaving the screen all black. So, whenever that happened, I had to press the pause button quickly in order to move the mouse and turn on the monitor again. My monitor is set to automatically turn off every 10 minutes, so, the pauses happened every 10 minutes, but they doesn't last for more than 2 seconds, though.

Would it be ok to still upload the video like this, or does that make my video "unlegit" or something like that?

[ciox]

They are Printed Circuit Boards, actual arcade games. You can see a whole bunch of them in this thread.

I see, thanks.

I have another question... I managed to 1cc Zanac Neo on easy, but there's one problem.

I used the ePSXe emulator for it, and even though I had it as the active window, my monitor would turn off every now and then, leaving the screen all black. So, whenever that happened, I had to press the pause button quickly in order to move the mouse and turn on the monitor again. My monitor is set to automatically turn off every 10 minutes, so, the pauses happened every 10 minutes, but they doesn't last for more than 2 seconds, though.

Would it be ok to still upload the video like this, or does that make my video "unlegit" or something like that?

You only need to worry about that if it's for a specific competition with rules or if it's a world record or something, nobody sane will trash a normal shmup video over something like this.

[Synnae]

You only need to worry about that if it's for a specific competition with rules or if it's a world record or something, nobody sane will trash a normal shmup video over something like this.

That's a relief. And yes, this is just a normal shmup video for entertainment purposes. Gonna post the link here on the youtube thread once I finish my upload, for the ones that are interested on watching it.

-EDIT-

Nevermind. I just set my monitor to turn off every 2 hours and did another 1cc, so now everything is good.

[oboewan42]

Shot in the dark: is there any way to force MAME to output in mono? Trying to play Twin Cobra II with headphones sucks.

I'm using ShmupMAME on Windows 7 if that helps.

[dark]

Trying to play Senko no Ronde but I just can't understand how to play it right.
I see the different attacks - long range weak bullet attacks that seem to deal no damage, and then the close range melee attacks that deal a lot of damage (just like Virtual On), so is the main strategy to madly dash at the cpu and try to get in melee attacks? Because I'm not really having fun with that technique I really want to like this game, I love the music, graphics, robots, stages, etc.

Question 2: Why is Senko no Ronde popularly thought of as some take on the shmup concept? Aside from the boss morphs and the bullet patterns therein, there is barely lip service to shmup like gameplay or concepts as far as I can tell.

[Synnae]

I have a question. I was playing Gekioh Shooting King on the PSX and I managed to get an easy 1cc, but after defeating the final boss, instead of seeing the credits screen I just saw a big "GAME OVER" and don't know why.

Well... even though it was an 1cc, I did lose a few lives during my playthrough, but that's it. So... why didn't I see the normal ending? Because I played on easy or because I lost lives?

[BareKnuckleRoo]

Well... even though it was an 1cc, I did lose a few lives during my playthrough, but that's it. So... why didn't I see the normal ending? Because I played on easy or because I lost lives?

Do you see the ending if you beat the game on Normal with the same number of lives lost? It's not unusual for games to limit seeing the ending for only the 'base' difficulty level and up, and have a bad ending for easy modes. If you 1cced it on Easy and still got no ending whereas a 1cc of Normal or above earns it, that'd suggest it's a minimum difficulty thing.

Shot in the dark: is there any way to force MAME to output in mono?

I'd like to know if you can do this, too. Outrunners is a tad annoying because it uses one sound side for 1P and the other for 2P in the original hardware (linked cabs), is there a way to force mono sound so if you're playing solo you get sound out of both channels?

[Zaarock]

Trying to play Senko no Ronde but I just can't understand how to play it right.
I see the different attacks - long range weak bullet attacks that seem to deal no damage, and then the close range melee attacks that deal a lot of damage (just like Virtual On), so is the main strategy to madly dash at the cpu and try to get in melee attacks? Because I'm not really having fun with that technique I really want to like this game, I love the music, graphics, robots, stages, etc.

Question 2: Why is Senko no Ronde popularly thought of as some take on the shmup concept? Aside from the boss morphs and the bullet patterns therein, there is barely lip service to shmup like gameplay or concepts as far as I can tell.

Melee attacks are only for punishing enemy mistakes(mainly missed dash attacks), they're really dangerous to throw out but the reward is that your opponent loses meter or is forced to activate BOSS mode. and no "madly" anything isn't a good idea The melee system in Rev.X is silly IMO, with good players it usually gets baited more than used on purpose.. in virtual-on series it's a game of it's own where it's cancellable and full of tricks.

The most important thing to know is that you generally want to move around the screen by dash cancelling, just like in virtual-on (neutral+dash or shield to cancel). The usual way of fighting is to trap your opponent in barrage attacks and then knock them down with a strong aimed attack(for example dash shots with many characters, or an aimed barrage), just like a shmup boss would.

Dash cancelling resets the timer for barrage attack uses which is very important as you can keep using them. You can easily use shield attacks to lead shots to where your opponent is going as well, which is will be very intuitive to do because activating shield is how you dash cancel. "vectoring" dash attacks to shoot at a good direction/time(IE. non-lateral to enemy movement/in the back/on recovery) is a big mechanic, since you can switch directions many times and choose where the shot starts by dashing and shooting at the same time. Optimally used or point blank barrage attacks will score instant knockdowns and massively damage bosses.

If you think you're good enough at fighting a boss form, activate overdrive before it comes out as you'll cause(and take) double damage and as a result prevent your opponent from healing or even win the round by killing a final boss.

I'd say just look up some japanese tournament or just normal play videos on youtube to see how things come together in practice.

Indeed the comparison to shmups is sort of exaggerated, mainly because you mostly move around by using a dash mechanic.. Knowing how to dodge and form hard to dodge bullet patterns is very important though. As a fan of VO and shmups I love the game though.

[Synnae]

Do you see the ending if you beat the game on Normal with the same number of lives lost? It's not unusual for games to limit seeing the ending for only the 'base' difficulty level and up, and have a bad ending for easy modes. If you 1cced it on Easy and still got no ending whereas a 1cc of Normal or above earns it, that'd suggest it's a minimum difficulty thing.

As for this game, the base difficulty isn't called "Normal" but "Geki" instead. Above this mode there's only "Hard" unless if you can unlock some other difficulty later as well.

Well, I'm still not skilled enough with this game to beat Geki. So, for now I'll stick with uploading my Easy playthrough, regardless of the bad ending.