B&O MX4/6/7000 - troubleshooting and general information

[marmotasana]

Well, the MX4000 was only made up until 2003. The MX4200, which I have here, was made from 2003-2007. It belonged to the last CRT lines that B&O made. My other two B&O's, Beovision 1 and Beovision 3 also belong to that tail end line.

They all have similar looking menus, and all allow colour adjustments in RGB.

I am frankly quite baffled by how earlier models seemingly lacked this feature. Quite shocking, really, considering how those older models had a retail price of several thousand pounds.

Nope ... in my MX 7000 can not adjust color in RGB mode .. possible to update the firmware of TV?

Are there any external device that allows to adjust COLOR / BRIGHT picture?, something like SLG IN A BOX... but only for CRT TV, of course...

[Unseen]

Are there any external device that allows to adjust COLOR / BRIGHT picture?, something like SLG IN A BOX... but only for CRT TV, of course...

To adjust the color saturation of an RGB signal, which is what the "color" adjustment on a TV usually does, the RGB signal must be converted to Component, then modified to change the saturation and finally back again to RGB, so I don't see why disabling the color adjustment for RGB inputs can be considered an "omission". It's rather the other way around - if the color saturation can be adjusted for RGB signals, the TV either isn't in RGB mode or it does quite a bit of processing (risking a reduction of quality) on that RGB signal before it gets displayed.

Brightness and contrast can be applied directly to RGB though, brightness is a signal offset and contrast changes the amplification/attenuation of the signal. Color saturation is also amplification/attenuation, but applied only to the two color difference parts of a component signal, without changing the luminance.

[marmotasana]

Are there any external device that allows to adjust COLOR / BRIGHT picture?, something like SLG IN A BOX... but only for CRT TV, of course...

To adjust the color saturation of an RGB signal, which is what the "color" adjustment on a TV usually does, the RGB signal must be converted to Component, then modified to change the saturation and finally back again to RGB, so I don't see why disabling the color adjustment for RGB inputs can be considered an "omission". It's rather the other way around - if the color saturation can be adjusted for RGB signals, the TV either isn't in RGB mode or it does quite a bit of processing (risking a reduction of quality) on that RGB signal before it gets displayed.

Brightness and contrast can be applied directly to RGB though, brightness is a signal offset and contrast changes the amplification/attenuation of the signal. Color saturation is also amplification/attenuation, but applied only to the two color difference parts of a component signal, without changing the luminance.

I thought perhaps using an external device can raise the color somehow ... why do I think this? Well, a while ago I had a device called SLG in a box, which served to convert the signal of retro consoles with RGB VGA signal cable, adding scanlines, etc ...

The issue is that with this device could increase the contrast / color / brightness of the image, so I thought perhaps a quality RGB switch ... you might have function also adjust contrast / color / brightness ...

So start looking like crazy is an option, but can also be found on the forums and perhaps give a more accurate solution.

I love the TV, so I change this discarded.

Am you can lend a hand?

A greeting.

[marmotasana]

I thought maybe ... what if I use an external TDT ?, supposedly has to control the color, brightness, etc ... could raise the level of color?

[Ji-L87]

Can I ask what's the general consensus of this thread?
Are the MX-series mentioned in the title worth seeking out or are they overly finicky? There seems to be both praise and scorn when quickly paging through the thread.

These models, especially the MX4000, have been pretty common on local classifieds as of late and since I've always loved the design I'm interested in picking one up but I can't really get a good grip on how well they actually perform. I've watched videos of some people having to solder a switch to gain access to the service menu where others simply can use their remotes, and read about constantly adjusting geometry, settings not being saved etc...

I'd love to get something like PVM/BVM or a good little Trinitron but that kind of CRT doesn't really show up here much it seems, hence why I'm considering this.

[kamiboy]

Glowing recommendation from here. I love B&O's for retro gaming. Do try to seek out the latest era models though to ensure that they have the most modern menu systems and capabilities. I own three sets currently, all late era models, all look and sound fantastic.

[DangerousBryan]

Goddamn!! I've had an MX4000 for a while now and had no idea about not being able to adjust colour in RGB. Why the heck did the MX4200 get this feature and not the other models that came before it. You'd think an overly expensive TV at the time would have such a feature

All this time, I've wondered why colours aren't very vivid in RGB compared to composite and s-video...

I'll certainly be on the lookout for an MX4200.

[mremulator]

Guys, any help would be appreciated here...

Basically, I've spent hours mucking about in the service menu to no avail, trying the fix the geometry at the top of the screen.



It's only really a problem for the low-res (256x240) games like Double Dragon in MAME. It's less noticeable with higher resolutions.

The closest I've come to fixing it is by lowering the VFREQ to "16", however some higher res games are unable to sync at this setting.

The image is all wavy at the top of the screen and you can see a red, green & blue line across the top. Other than that, the geometry is good.

I was wondering if there is something I could adjust on the neck card or chassis? Would it be worth me trying to get this professionally calibrated perhaps?

Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[MKL]

I've seen that quite a few times on various TVs, it's a problem in the vertical deflection circuit. Check the related capacitors and possibly the vertical IC itself.

[rugdoctor]

Got a MX4000 recently, great consumer CRT and looks nice even when its off.



PVM is still the boss

[DangerousBryan]

Just got a MX4200 and can confirm that the color adjustments can be made in RGB mode, unlike earlier models. Thank you kamiboy for bringing that information to light.

Also, the menu layout is much nicer compared to my old MX4000.

So for prospective B&O owners... be aware that if you want to use RGB and don't want a dull, unimpressive picture, seek out the MX4200 or its big brother, the MX8000.

[kamiboy]

I think there were 8000's, maybe even 4200's that came with the old menu system. Most important thing to note is manufacture date. I am not sure at which year the sets switched to the modern menu system though.

You can figure out the year your unit was made by looking at the starting two digits of the serial number:

08***: 1991
09***: 1992/93
10***: 1995/95
11***: 1996
12***: 1997
13***: -
14***: 2000
15***: 2001
16***: 2002
17***: -
18***: 2005
19***: 2006
20***: 2007
21***: 2008/09

[mremulator]

Thinking my MX4000 had a problem (see a few posts above), today I went and picked up a MX4002 (£25 ebay bargain).

Anyway... EXACTLY the same. The only difference is I can lower the HFREQ down to "10" on the MX4002 (MX4000 only goes to 16 before losing sync).
This fixes the poor geometry at the top of the screen when playing low-res games (256x240) in MAME.

I can only assume that these TV's don't like anything smaller than 320x240 and/or don't play nice with the Ultimarc ArcadeVGA at lower resolutions?

Anything 320x224 or bigger has almost spot-on geometry.

Oh well, at least I've got a couple of perfectly good B&O CRT's now.

[DangerousBryan]

My 4200 has a serial number that starts with 17*** and has the modern menu system. So it looks like serial numbers starting with 16*** (2002) came with the old menu. The 8000 was introduced in 2002, so it would make sense that some 8000's came with the old menu.

Since the 4200 was introduced in 2003, we can say that all 4200's came with the modern menu system.

[Cisek]

Guys, any help would be appreciated here...

Basically, I've spent hours mucking about in the service menu to no avail, trying the fix the geometry at the top of the screen.

Image

It's only really a problem for the low-res (256x240) games like Double Dragon in MAME. It's less noticeable with higher resolutions.

The closest I've come to fixing it is by lowering the VFREQ to "16", however some higher res games are unable to sync at this setting.

The image is all wavy at the top of the screen and you can see a red, green & blue line across the top. Other than that, the geometry is good.

I was wondering if there is something I could adjust on the neck card or chassis? Would it be worth me trying to get this professionally calibrated perhaps?

Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Those 3 rgb lines are fine, every tv I squeezed vertically, displays those lines. Just enlarge your vertical size with resolution like 320x240, or 640x480, so that those lines won't be visible, and every other resolution will work fine, believe me. About this "s" shape, I got exactly the same problem, however on 3 different tvs, as it turned out all tv's were ok, the problem was the bad vga scart cable, I used different schematics and geometry is perfect in every resolution

[mremulator]

Guys, any help would be appreciated here...

Basically, I've spent hours mucking about in the service menu to no avail, trying the fix the geometry at the top of the screen.

Image

It's only really a problem for the low-res (256x240) games like Double Dragon in MAME. It's less noticeable with higher resolutions.

The closest I've come to fixing it is by lowering the VFREQ to "16", however some higher res games are unable to sync at this setting.

The image is all wavy at the top of the screen and you can see a red, green & blue line across the top. Other than that, the geometry is good.

I was wondering if there is something I could adjust on the neck card or chassis? Would it be worth me trying to get this professionally calibrated perhaps?

Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

Those 3 rgb lines are fine, every tv I squeezed vertically, displays those lines. Just enlarge your vertical size with resolution like 320x240, or 640x480, so that those lines won't be visible, and every other resolution will work fine, believe me. About this "s" shape, I got exactly the same problem, however on 3 different tvs, as it turned out all tv's were ok, the problem was the bad vga scart cable, I used different schematics and geometry is perfect in every resolution

Thanks Cisek. How did you wire your RGB scart differently out of interest??

On another note... does anyone know if it's possible to adjust the rotation of the screen? I'm not talking about EWT.

I've tested 3x different MX4000's now and the image is off by 1 or 2 degrees CW on all 3, so the top left and bottom right corners are skewed if that makes sense? No amount of tweaking fixes the problem.

Is there anything that can be adjusted on the neck card or chassis perhaps?

Cheers.

[Ji-L87]

Okay so I picked up a B&O last month or so

I've always loved the look of them but also heard some horror stories.
Anyway, it looks great:


But the settings and the way the menu works is quite a pain I have to admit.
Although geometry still isn't perfect it's up and running now. However I've encountered an odd issue that I thought I'd ask you guys about:

Input V-Tape
What happens when I press menu

Again, V-tape mode
...with the menu open

When using AV 1 as V-Tape (with Decoder turned on in the various settings) the image is sharp albeit a bit dark.
But when I press menu to access the color settings, the whole screen shifts a step or two to the right and gets much brighter/saturated.
The image quality also goes down the drain.

When I first got this TV I managed to get the picture from the AV inputs to show up in TV-mode after tinkering with the tuning and decoder settings.
This made it possible to alter the geometry in the service menu while actually looking at the game. However, just like pressing menu in V-tape, the picture in TV mode would sometimes be this darker but sharper image, or sometimes get stuck in that brighter but funky looking mode.

Any ideas as to why this happens?

[blizzz]

That's normal. The TV switches to composite when you open a menu.

[marmotasana]

To me what I would like to know, is that I have the option of picture or sound in the normal menu ... and another thing, when I put a game more 2D noticed a defect in the image, it is as if the right side were narrower, like a "fish eye" effect when the camera moves:

What settings solves?

Hfq
Hph
Ham
Vam
Vsc
Vsh
Vli
EWc
EWp
EWt

[NGAES]

There is a multi console (I think) test pattern .img I found a while back that you could set up via composite. Might help with the geometry part.

[marmotasana]

The problem is the sides of the TV, appears a little crushed, do you see?

[MKL]

That's a horizontal linearity issue. I don't think it can be adjusted through the service menu. There is a coil for that on the chassis but it's probably factory sealed with glue.

[marmotasana]

That's a horizontal linearity issue. I don't think it can be adjusted through the service menu. There is a coil for that on the chassis but it's probably factory sealed with glue.

So ... I can not solve that service menu?

[MKL]

I've never seen a service menu on any TV (including Sony) where you can adjust horizontal linearity, only vertical linearity. In fact in your menu you have "Vli" but not "Hli". As I said this is always done by adjusting a magnetically biased coil on the chassis. When the magnet is turned it modifies the linearity.

[marmotasana]

I've never seen a service menu on any TV (including Sony) where you can adjust horizontal linearity, only vertical linearity. In fact in your menu you have "Vli" but not "Hli". As I said this is always done by adjusting a magnetically biased coil on the chassis. When the magnet is turned it modifies the linearity.

Where is located the magnetically biased coil?, I can adjust my hands? (with the TV I unplugged)

Thanks

[MKL]

Where is located the magnetically biased coil?

Near the flyback (the big transformer with the thick red wire ending with a suction cup connected to the tube). The magnet on top of the coil will attract a small piece of metal. That's a way to find it (TV must be off of course). Or you can post a pic of the chassis and I'll point it out to you.

I can adjust my hands? (with the TV I unplugged)

I'm pretty sure it's not the adjustable type on this chassis, i.e. the magnet is permanently glued. You would need to replace it with an adjustable coil of the same value, easier said than done.

[marmotasana]

Can be done externally by software ?, coil is like a roll of metal?

[Cisek]

Guys, any help would be appreciated here...

Basically, I've spent hours mucking about in the service menu to no avail, trying the fix the geometry at the top of the screen.

Image

It's only really a problem for the low-res (256x240) games like Double Dragon in MAME. It's less noticeable with higher resolutions.

The closest I've come to fixing it is by lowering the VFREQ to "16", however some higher res games are unable to sync at this setting.

The image is all wavy at the top of the screen and you can see a red, green & blue line across the top. Other than that, the geometry is good.

I was wondering if there is something I could adjust on the neck card or chassis? Would it be worth me trying to get this professionally calibrated perhaps?

Any help/suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

I told you earlier to build different cable, but that was not the solution. I did had exactly the same "wavy" problem even with different cable. It occurst hough only, when I connect my pc through scart vga (all the other equipment including consoles are fine). Most resolutions have this problem (I am using crt emudrvier with groovymame).

So in order to solve this, you need to change geometry settings directly in arcadeosd.exe
For example, there are a lot of resolutions which on default has 15,625 khz signal which will look wavy on top of the screen. You must get into vertical setting and increase vertical sync, so that 15,625 signal will change to 15,7... This will help.
If you will have some resolutions that have 16,2... Khz signal at the start, then you also need to change values in arcadeosd.exe selected resolution geometry settings.


I just finished my B&O MX7000 arcade stand. This is how it looks now.

[futurematt5]

Am liking that stand Cisek!

[Lip]

Hi, new to the forums.

Picked up an MX 4002 (sw 4.7) yesterday, in good condition with the remote.
Love it